What would $30k get me?

[ATC]

I'm curious. I'm looking at houses now, and one of them is a tiny house on 5 acres. It's listed for about $30k under what I can afford (single income). I'm just tossing around ideas of getting a loan for $30k over asking (assuming the bank will let me), and building a shop with it.

Could I get a 30x40 metal building for that? Contractor doing all the work unless the building was stupid-easy to assemble myself.

Lot leveled, footers and slab poured (5"), building assembled, electric ran to panel, roughed-in plumbing (just for a sink and hose spigot).
I can insulate, wire, plumb air, hang lights, etc. myself after the majority is done.

I'm afraid the house is going to need that money though. 672sq-ft, built in 1955

 

[packofqtips]

you can buy the property for asking, or whatever you offer then get a home improvement loan after the fact and roll it into your mortgage

 

[DEnd]

$30k will get you about $30k worth of building, or a bit less, occasionally it can get you a bit more.

The absolute cheapest sqft you can get is with a pole barn type building. But all you get is sqft, if you want or need to condition that space, or have interior finishes then stick built is probably cheaper. That's why pole barn types of buildings tend to be barns not houses. $30k could get you a 30x40 pole barn fairly easily.

Instead of focusing on size you need to ask yourself what you need the building to do, what you want it to do, and what you would like it to do.

For example Needs might be:
1) Storage for 2 cars, property maintenance tools, automotive tools, and wood working equipment
2) Enough space to handle cutting down a 4x8 sheet of plywood on a table saw (minimum 20x20)
3) Match existing architecture to meet HOA requirements
4) Electrical service

Wants:
1) Separate space for wood working and automotive projects
2) A storage loft
3) Space conditioning

Like to haves:
1) Nice floors
2) Fully finished ceilings and walls
3) built in or high end garage cabinetry
4) a lift!

Each of those choices have budgetary consequences and should be thought about and planned for when building, even if you don't include them in the original build. For example with the lift you will want a certain ceiling height to accommodate it, that choice may limit the amount of sqft you can build now. Likewise wanting a separate area for wood working and automotive projects means planning for at least one extra door which means less money is available for square footage. However square footage is basically useless if it is not in service of a goal, with good design less can actually be more.

 

[ATC]

$30k will get you about $30k worth of building, or a bit less, occasionally it can get you a bit more.

The absolute cheapest sqft you can get is with a pole barn type building. But all you get is sqft, if you want or need to condition that space, or have interior finishes then stick built is probably cheaper. That's why pole barn types of buildings tend to be barns not houses. $30k could get you a 30x40 pole barn fairly easily.

Instead of focusing on size you need to ask yourself what you need the building to do, what you want it to do, and what you would like it to do.

For example Needs might be:
1) Storage for 2 cars, property maintenance tools, automotive tools, and wood working equipment
2) Enough space to handle cutting down a 4x8 sheet of plywood on a table saw (minimum 20x20)
3) Match existing architecture to meet HOA requirements
4) Electrical service

Wants:
1) Separate space for wood working and automotive projects
2) A storage loft
3) Space conditioning

Like to haves:
1) Nice floors
2) Fully finished ceilings and walls
3) built in or high end garage cabinetry
4) a lift!

Each of those choices have budgetary consequences and should be thought about and planned for when building, even if you don't include them in the original build. For example with the lift you will want a certain ceiling height to accommodate it, that choice may limit the amount of sqft you can build now. Likewise wanting a separate area for wood working and automotive projects means planning for at least one extra door which means less money is available for square footage. However square footage is basically useless if it is not in service of a goal, with good design less can actually be more.

I'm not new to garages....just new to the cost and building of them.

Shop will be used for automotive repair & modification, welding and metal fabrication, and used to park my DD in until I get a carport.
I don't need a loft, fancy floors, or cabinets.

Basically, I'm asking what size shop $30k would get me that is fully enclosed, and able to be used. A slab, a metal building on it, and electric to the building....that's it. I'd like 12' walls.

Again, I can add insulation, wiring, storage shelves, etc. down the road when I have the funds for it. I'm just trying to get ideas right now.

 

[pftwhftb]

I'm not new to garages....just new to the cost and building of them.

Shop will be used for automotive repair & modification, welding and metal fabrication, and used to park my DD in until I get a carport.
I don't need a loft, fancy floors, or cabinets.

Basically, I'm asking what size shop $30k would get me that is fully enclosed, and able to be used. A slab, a metal building on it, and electric to the building....that's it. I'd like 12' walls.

Again, I can add insulation, wiring, storage shelves, etc. down the road when I have the funds for it. I'm just trying to get ideas right now.

I got a 24'x36' with 10' ceilings for $26K all work done by contractors and that is with electricity and $2k of unexpected cost of 200 tons of fill dirt. Mine is a metal pole building, with loft, cement floors and me building work benches. My build thread link is in my signature.

 

[maxwage]

You also need to account for different prices/different regions.

Labor / material / regs can vary wildly across the country.

This is why pricing discussions are not permitted on the contracting forum I'm on. Waaay too many variables.

 

[pftwhftb]

You also need to account for different prices/different regions.

Labor / material / regs can vary wildly across the country.

This is why pricing discussions are not permitted on the contracting forum I'm on. Waaay too many variables.

Very true..... things are different in different parts of the country. Some parts of the country get robbed more than others in their prices.

 

[twertsy]

This could be the start of something awesome. How 'bout a "GJ helping hands day?" I'll volunteer a weekend to help you build, in exchange for food/beer. You provide the materials and we'll bring the tools! I'm sure there's others that'd pitch in? The GJ "Amish-like" Barn Build!

 

[Notgrownup]

Like habitat for humanity.....???

 

[twertsy]

Sure, but "Habitat for ATC's Stuff"

 

[LB-1911]

I'm curious. I'm looking at houses now, and one of them is a tiny house on 5 acres. It's listed for about $30k under what I can afford (single income). I'm just tossing around ideas of getting a loan for $30k over asking (assuming the bank will let me), and building a shop with it.

Could I get a 30x40 metal building for that? Contractor doing all the work unless the building was stupid-easy to assemble myself.

Lot leveled, footers and slab poured (5"), building assembled, electric ran to panel, roughed-in plumbing (just for a sink and hose spigot).
I can insulate, wire, plumb air, hang lights, etc. myself after the majority is done.

I'm afraid the house is going to need that money though. 672sq-ft, built in 1955

I'm not new to garages....just new to the cost and building of them.

Shop will be used for automotive repair & modification, welding and metal fabrication, and used to park my DD in until I get a carport.
I don't need a loft, fancy floors, or cabinets.

Basically, I'm asking what size shop $30k would get me that is fully enclosed, and able to be used. A slab, a metal building on it, and electric to the building....that's it. I'd like 12' walls.

Again, I can add insulation, wiring, storage shelves, etc. down the road when I have the funds for it. I'm just trying to get ideas right now.

Price Your Metal Building - Online In Less Than 60 Seconds‎

http://www.armstrongsteelbuildings....m_medium=ppc&gclid=COys-Kbl7cICFcyyMgodbgYA1A


What is the current electrical service?

What are your perceived electrical requirements for the new structure?

Serviced by on site well and septic*?
*A septic system will require a designated reserve area

Are just a few of the questions that need answers prior to a WAG on $$'s

 

[Platonic Solid]

you can buy the property for asking, or whatever you offer then get a home improvement loan after the fact and roll it into your mortgage

Getting a construction loan after the fact and then rolling into your mortgage is the expensive way to go. You don’t want to pay multiple closing costs. Plus, just because the bank has approved you for let’s say a $150,000 loan doesn’t mean they’ll approve you for a $30,000 loan right after getting a $120,000 mortgage.

Buy the house with a construction loan at the start. The construction loan will convert to a regular mortgage upon completion. You’ll have a limited timeline to complete the build and the bank will require a licensed contractor to do the work. The bank will not permit you to be your own contractor. The loan will be based on the banks appraisal of the house plus the estimated value of improvements. Smaller local banks are more likely to work with you on deals like this than the big chains, so shop around.

As you said: “I'm afraid the house is going to need that money though. 672sq-ft, built in 1955”.
Go through the house with your realtor and an experienced friend. Thoroughly list all the repairs/improvements that you think need to be made. An experienced realtor should see things that you may miss. Now go to the town hall and get copies of everything they have on record for this property and talk to zoning about adding a structure. Assuming no major road blocks thus far, make an offer contingent upon inspection. Then hire an inspector and get his report. Do not skip the inspection stage! Make sure the inspection includes septic and well (assuming it’s not city sewer and water).

 

[Tronyadorable]

I'm curious. I'm looking at houses now, and one of them is a tiny house on 5 acres. It's listed for about $30k under what I can afford (single income). I'm just tossing around ideas of getting a loan for $30k over asking (assuming the bank will let me), and building a shop with it.

Could I get a 30x40 metal building for that? Contractor doing all the work unless the building was stupid-easy to assemble myself.

Lot leveled, footers and slab poured (5"), building assembled, electric ran to panel, roughed-in plumbing (just for a sink and hose spigot).
I can insulate, wire, plumb air, hang lights, etc. myself after the majority is done.

I'm afraid the house is going to need that money though. 672sq-ft, built in 1955

You live in one of those taxation states so you better call a GC and ask : " Garage. How much per square foot?" Then you get./Block or frame ? Insulated or not ? Electric or not ? What kind of lighting ? Plumbing ? Winderz ? What kinda doors ? Alarm ?
Just get a bare structure price average per square foot.Shingled.If you want a ********* let the GC plumb in the fittings and stub it out.I wouldn't have a garage without at least a half beth---better a full one.
Sub the rest out to buddies.GC's will bend you over on add-ons

 

[zcar751]

I see your from VA so the question of what with $30k get you will depend on which part of VA your in. If your buy the coast or up around Maryland then you can expect a couple of 2x4s and some tar paper over a bag of gravel. Now the same money in south west VA will get you more than the 1200 sq/ft of metal building as you described.

Some of the builds on 24x24 shops have price tag over $100k but they are nicer than Donald Trumps bed room. So what $30K will get you is way to open of a question.

 

[jwith68]

This won't be exactly what you're looking for, but to give you an idea, I just had the following building bid:

* 48' x 64' x 14' post frame (pole building)
* Poles 8' OC for walls, Trusses 4' OC
* 18" soffits on all sides
* 1 - 22' double slider centered on a 64' side wall
* 1 - 3-0 walk door
* 8' x 10' porch roof over walk door
* 8' x 48' 50lb/sqft mezzanine on one end of building with stairs
* Scissor trusses from edge of door to end with mezzanine, for extra vertical clearance
* 2x6 interior grade board and 2x4 bookshelf girts (in addition to exterior girts) to 8'-6" above floor
* Interior covered with 7/16" OSB from top of grade board, up 8'
* Double bubble foil insulation over whole building
* Gray 5-rib metal walls, white 5-rib metal roof, white trim

Best bid so far has been from an Amish builder at $29,600. I've seen a couple buildings he's put up in the last few months, and they look really good. Another local builder who does really good work is at $33k.

The pad is already built up and rough leveled, so no site prep is needed. Its ready to drill holes. Electric is run to the site and stubbed up in conduit, but wiring the building will be extra. I will have to put in about another 2000 sq ft of gravel drive and approach, and will put ~4-6" of rock in the floor of the building, compact, and put 3-4" of limestone fines over that and compact until its like concrete. Purpose of the building is farm machinery storage.

 

[DEnd]

I'm not new to garages....just new to the cost and building of them.

Shop will be used for automotive repair & modification, welding and metal fabrication, and used to park my DD in until I get a carport.
I don't need a loft, fancy floors, or cabinets.

Basically, I'm asking what size shop $30k would get me that is fully enclosed, and able to be used. A slab, a metal building on it, and electric to the building....that's it. I'd like 12' walls.

Again, I can add insulation, wiring, storage shelves, etc. down the road when I have the funds for it. I'm just trying to get ideas right now.

No offense but you aren't understanding what I was trying to say. If you want to eventually put in heating and A/C, then a pole barn may not be the best option, especially if you plan to do it piece meal. What you want the building to eventually be has budgetary effects starting in the planning stages. The better you do your planning now and understand the ramifications of what you want, then the easier and cheaper that building will be to build and finish. It's cheaper to put in all your doors now (or at least frame their openings) than to have to cut open a side in the building and put in a door. It's cheaper to address possible thermal bridges now than it is to pay the extra energy bills later, or put in a novel solution to address it later. Both of those make construction more expensive at the start, but they save money in the long term.

On the other hand if all you need, want, and would like is a pole barn on a slab, then a 30x40 can fit into that budget fairly easily.

 

[whitedogone]

Better. Check with county zoning to see if you can build just a barn / garage without a house. Some will not allow that even if you tell them that you're going to build a house at a later date they won't allow you to build just the garage / barn first.

 

[LB-1911]

Better. Check with county zoning to see if you can build just a barn / garage without a house.

Some will not allow that even if you tell them that you're going to build a house at a later date they won't allow you to build just the garage / barn first.

The initial post....

I'm curious. I'm looking at houses now, and one of them is a tiny house on 5 acres.

I'm afraid the house is going to need that money though. 672sq-ft, built in 1955

 

[whitedogone]

The initial post....

tl:dr

 

[rburke65]

The bank is not going to loan you $30,000 over the asking price of a piece of property. where would their collateral be? If you walked, the bank would be 30k under water. Ain't going to happen. IMO.....

 

[Scott r c]

The bank is not going to loan you $30,000 over the asking price of a piece of property. where would their collateral be? If you walked, the bank would be 30k under water. Ain't going to happen. IMO.....

Exactly what I was thinking. Doubt they will even loan you full price, generally you need some skin in the game. Your going to be paying PMI, which is a rip.

 

[Catadj78]

I borrowed just enough for materials and slab on a signature loan. 13k for 40x40x10 pole building. Metal roof and sides. Contractor is doing slab I am doing the rest myself. Plumbing and electrical I will pay for as I go along.

 

[Platonic Solid]

The bank is not going to loan you $30,000 over the asking price of a piece of property. where would their collateral be? If you walked, the bank would be 30k under water. Ain't going to happen. IMO.....

It can be done, like I said earlier, if he buys the house with a construction loan to include the new garage. I'm assuming he wouldn't be looking to buy a house if he didn't have 20% down.

 

[Catadj78]

It can be done, like I said earlier, if he buys the house with a construction loan to include the new garage. I'm assuming he wouldn't be looking to buy a house if he didn't have 20% down.

You can also do 100% financing on a mortgage too

 

[Platonic Solid]

You can also do 100% financing on a mortgage too

Yes, with the right program, but there limits and rules. It all comes down to what the OP qualifies for and what programs are available in his area. It's much easier to put 20% down and do a conventional construction loan that converts to a mortgage upon completion. There are all kinds of annoying fees with the 100% type loans. HUD/FHA & FHA 203K

 

[Catadj78]

Yes, with the right program, but there limits and rules. It all comes down to what the OP qualifies for and what programs are available in his area. It's much easier to put 20% down and do a conventional construction loan that converts to a mortgage upon completion. There are all kinds of annoying fees with the 100% type loans. HUD/FHA & FHA 203K

I don't know how every bank is but I had none of these fees. I used my local bank that I have used for 20 yrs. No program, just a traditional mortgage. 100% financing including closing costs which were minimal. I think I financed 1k more than I paid for the house which included appraisal, survey and attorney fees

 

[boomer12831]

You might want to be your own general contractor. Talk to a local lumber co. They usually have garage packages that you can modify to your needs. Talk to a concrete guy and tell him what you want to build. Talk to a local vocational school and look in to hiring them to do the framing. By making calls and talking to people, you won't believe what kind of money you can save and being its a garage, its not that hard of a project. You will certainly learn from it. Good luck, Ed

 

[Platonic Solid]

I don't know how every bank is but I had none of these fees. I used my local bank that I have used for 20 yrs. No program, just a traditional mortgage. 100% financing including closing costs which were minimal. I think I financed 1k more than I paid for the house which included appraisal, survey and attorney fees

Well done! As I said earlier: "Smaller local banks are more likely to work with you on deals like this than the big chains, so shop around."
I don't know when you purchased your house, but 100% financing was easier before the 2008 crash.

 

[Catadj78]

Well done! As I said earlier: "Smaller local banks are more likely to work with you on deals like this than the big chains, so shop around."
I don't know when you purchased your house, but 100% financing was easier before the 2008 crash.

Purchased my house 9 months ago.

Loan for the shop was a few weeks ago.

The bank I deal with only has 2 branches.

 

[Platonic Solid]

Can't get much smaller and local than that. You're a lucky man. Your relationship with that bank is indispensable.

 

[twertsy]

Really apparently, my idea went nowhere. OP, if you need / want help, just PM me. Hell, I'll even supply the beer for what appears to be the two of us. I'll help you build it Brudda......

 

[600SL]

I'm curious. I'm looking at houses now, and one of them is a tiny house on 5 acres. It's listed for about $30k under what I can afford (single income). I'm just tossing around ideas of getting a loan for $30k over asking (assuming the bank will let me), and building a shop with it.

Could I get a 30x40 metal building for that? Contractor doing all the work unless the building was stupid-easy to assemble myself.

Lot leveled, footers and slab poured (5"), building assembled, electric ran to panel, roughed-in plumbing (just for a sink and hose spigot).
I can insulate, wire, plumb air, hang lights, etc. myself after the majority is done.

I'm afraid the house is going to need that money though. 672sq-ft, built in 1955

30K for 30X40? Can it be done I say yes but not everything on your list. I just completed a 30x48 steel building and yes they are stupid easy to assemble but you will need help and will need to rent equipment. My building kit cost $25K complete with every nut and bolt insulation, interior metal paneling, 2doors 3 windows which I did not install and will be putting on Craigs list shortly. My slab 6" thick rebar reinforced cost $14,400. with me doing most of the work and a contractor to pour it.

There are cheaper metal buildings than mine, so I would assume you could get a lower quality metal kit 30x40 without insulation or interior walls for around 15K and might be able to get a 5" thick foundation poured for under 10K. So now you have a free standing building without garage doors for ~$25K. For garage doors figure $500 to $3000 each depending on the quality and size you are looking at.

Minimum Electricity for me including 17 8' T8 light fixtures, required exterior lighting and on required interior duplex outlet all required to get through electrical inspection with exception of the interior lights was $4700.

So for a 30 x 40 metal building with say 6 8' T8 fixtures, 2 cheep storage facility type rollup doors on a 5" slab and a few duplex GFIC receptacles you com in right at $30K.

Now do you need land cleared, a road going to the building, a driveway outside the garage doors etc. In the end my 48x30 cost $83K as a turn key building with full 200 amp electric, insulated, 2 CHI rolling steel garage doors, Epoxy floor paint, 400' gravel driveway with a culvert and 30 yard pad outside of the building and I just completed $1500 of black pipe installation for my compressed air system.

As far as financing I was able to finance $50K over my home mortgage because I had put down ~ 75% on my house.

You can see this building in the thread below.

 

[ATC]

Thanks for all the replies. Again, I'm just trying to get an idea of what $30k could get me. This house is not #1 on my list. Lets just assume the planets align and I buy they house and have $30k cash in my hand to build something for the sake of this argument.

You also need to account for different prices/different regions.

Labor / material / regs can vary wildly across the country.

This is why pricing discussions are not permitted on the contracting forum I'm on. Waaay too many variables.

I see your from VA so the question of what with $30k get you will depend on which part of VA your in. If your buy the coast or up around Maryland then you can expect a couple of 2x4s and some tar paper over a bag of gravel. Now the same money in south west VA will get you more than the 1200 sq/ft of metal building as you described.

Yes you guys are right. I am in SW VA.

Price Your Metal Building - Online In Less Than 60 Seconds‎

http://www.armstrongsteelbuildings....m_medium=ppc&gclid=COys-Kbl7cICFcyyMgodbgYA1A


What is the current electrical service?

What are your perceived electrical requirements for the new structure?

Serviced by on site well and septic*?
*A septic system will require a designated reserve area

Are just a few of the questions that need answers prior to a WAG on $$'s

I don't know what the house has. Shouldn't be no more than 100A service judging by the size and age of the house. I would run 200A to garage. I paid $1200 to have 200A service installed to my current garage (over 300' from the pole, buried underground). This house has a pole about 30' from where the garage would be.

Water will probably be run by me from the house, and I'd install a graywater (gravel pit) for the drain. Again...all I want is a sink to wash my hands, wet a rag, wash small parts before painting (no chemicals), etc...

No offense but you aren't understanding what I was trying to say. If you want to eventually put in heating and A/C, then a pole barn may not be the best option, especially if you plan to do it piece meal. What you want the building to eventually be has budgetary effects starting in the planning stages. The better you do your planning now and understand the ramifications of what you want, then the easier and cheaper that building will be to build and finish. It's cheaper to put in all your doors now (or at least frame their openings) than to have to cut open a side in the building and put in a door. It's cheaper to address possible thermal bridges now than it is to pay the extra energy bills later, or put in a novel solution to address it later. Both of those make construction more expensive at the start, but they save money in the long term.

On the other hand if all you need, want, and would like is a pole barn on a slab, then a 30x40 can fit into that budget fairly easily.

I think I did understand what you were saying. I am a simple man. The garage will not be heated or cooled (OK, I might put a woodstove in during the winter).
In my OP and following post, I was assuming one 12x12 basic door, one man door, and 4 windows.

Yes, with the right program, but there limits and rules. It all comes down to what the OP qualifies for and what programs are available in his area. It's much easier to put 20% down and do a conventional construction loan that converts to a mortgage upon completion. There are all kinds of annoying fees with the 100% type loans. HUD/FHA & FHA 203K

Yes, I am doing the FHA (I think...paperwork is not in front of me) loan with 0% down.

 

[Tronyadorable]

The bank is not going to loan you $30,000 over the asking price of a piece of property. where would their collateral be? If you walked, the bank would be 30k under water. Ain't going to happen. IMO.....

Why ? You already know they're "too big to fail".