What would YOU do in my situation

[Marco Polo]

Hi all,
I'm new to this forum and see that there is a ton of good advice regarding flooring products so I thought I would go to the experts to ask my question. The question is which option would you apply given my situation and why. And please, I know the differences between Polyaspartics and Epoxy have been debated to the point of a holy war, I'm just looking for opinions on my situation.

Ok, so here is the setup.
My garage: 600 sq ft, 10 months old, no cracks, no sealer, no moisture (using plastic duct tape on floor test).

Install air temp will be approx 50-65 degrees
Surface preparation: diamond grind
I plan to coat the floor and the 6" curb wall around the garage.
Both options below will be professionally installed.

Here are the two options I am considering:

Option A - Versatile System 4h
Epoxy base coat
1/4" chip
2 coats of Polyurea

Option B - Citadel Pro
Polyaspartic base
1/4" chip
2 coats of Polyurea

Here is what I believe to be factual given my discussions with installers and research I have done online (if I am incorrect in my learnings please enlighten me)
1. Either of the above two options, given diamond grind prep and warmer air temp, will provide a floor that will last at least 10 years baring any extreme abuse.
2. preparation is key no matter what solution, acid etching is good and simple but not comparable to diamond grinding.
3. Epoxy, with its slower cure and wetting properties, will actually bond better with concrete.
4. Polyaspartic is more flexible and less likely to crack when concrete expands.
5. material cost for polyaspartic is approx 2x high-grade epoxy
6. Epoxy will bond better to concrete that has moisture issues.
7. Most installers have moved to polyaspartic, NOT because it's a "better" product, but because it allows one day installs (quicker return to service) and colder climate installs.

I don't want to bias anyone with the items above, just would be interested to see if people agree.

So, in the end, this is not about cost, this is not about getting the job done in one day. It's about getting a high quality floor that will last a decade or more. So, which option would you do and why???

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

Marco

 

[SC-Eric]

Hi Marco... I get the feeling that you've really already made up your mind and are hoping that someone will confirm it. I'm going to give you some things to think about and encourage you to ensure you know what you are getting for the money. Here is my take...

4. Polyaspartic is more flexible and less likely to crack when concrete expands.

This is system dependent which means it depends on the actual formulation. We have various epoxy systems that are more flexible than polyaspartics including our own EnduraShield 4101 (polyaspartic).

6. Epoxy will bond better to concrete that has moisture issues.

That's a pretty general statement and could be 'not true' as much as it is 'true'. First, there are many epoxies that are sensitive to moisture. So, you would want to ensure that a moisture insensitive product was used! Next... most (if not all) polyaspartics are not only sensitive to moisture but the reaction is driven by moisture. They can be modified with Oxizoladines to help but that modification can promote yellowing!

So, in the end, this is not about cost, this is not about getting the job done in one day. It's about getting a high quality floor that will last a decade or more. So, which option would you do and why???

I'm not sure that you have enough information to decide if the system is going to last a decade or more. First, is either company going to give you a warranty for a decade? Do you think that they will both be in business for the next decade? How many floors has that installer completed that are a decade old? Most importantly... what do you actually get for the money? A floor that is 30-40 mils is going to last alot longer than a floor that is 3-4 mils... thickness matters. On that same note... what is the thickness comprised of? A thick layer of chips/flakes isn't the same as getting a thick layer of polymer.



I'm too tired to keep going. I can't go in to the difference between polyurea and polyaspartic right now. There are advantages and disadvantages of each on. IN GENERAL, polyaspartic systems are better. Again, this is VERY system dependent. I hope this gives you some things to think about. I have a feeling that in your case it's going to boil down to which of those contractors you are more comfortable with and what you are actually going to get for the money. I'd get that spelled out in writing.

 

[Marco Polo]

Wolverine,
Thank you for the quick reply... You sound extremely knowledgeable, so I'd like to know from you - if you had to choose Citadel or Roll on Rock 4h (Versatile) in my situation, which would you do? and why please. Just a few short reasons is fine...

And please everyone else, please weigh in.. Wolverine makes some excellent points here, most of these products have not been in service for 10 years, so how do we know what will really last...

THanks,

 

[rickairmedic]

Marco I cant tell you what to do with your floor but I am wondering if you happen to live in Fla and perhaps have a large black stationwagon at work with fancy curtains . I will offer this info on your floor the first guy to respond to your question also has what is probably the best flooring system for your shop although you cant get it direct from him you will have to talk to Fred over at Alpha garage to get Wolverines products . Fred is a member here as well and has helped alot of members here to have some amazing floors.

Rick

 

[thegarageguy]

Being that we have used both systems for years I feel maybe I can shed some light that others can't.

Plus for Citadel;
2 components - self priming base coat (pg350) and topcoat (pg100)
Very low odor
Minus for Citadel:
wierd mix ratios
more expensive

Plus for Versatile;
Less expensive
Free shipping
easier mix ratios (1to1) or (2to1)
More DIY freindly, IMO
Minus for Versatile;
3 components to use
5073 stinks to high heaven

Either way you can't go wrong. They are both reputable companies and will be around for a long time, regardless of what some say here.

Just remember that any system no matter which you choose will only be as good as the floor you put it on. I can't over emphasize the importance of a well prepped floor. Acid etching may work but is very inconsistent and you have no way of knowing or gauging if its work is done. Diamond grinding is guaranteed results. Just remember to vac it up and just to ensure all dust debris is off, run a damp mop over it. If you can't do it at least hire a company to prep it for you.

Good luck and have fun!

 

[SC-Eric]

I can't pick without knowing what each one is actually going to do.

Do you have a material breakdown for each one? In other words, how many mils of each step will be applied. Is either of the contractors giving you a breakdown of the amounts of materials they are going to use.

Contractors are famous for skimping. Many times contractors will state certain thicknesses to be applied but then they don't buy all of the product they need to actually put down what they promised you. Just because you are getting 3 coats from both contractors doesn't mean that those coats are the same thickness. So, I'd make them break down materials and then I'd make sure they put down what they promised. In other words... make them state how many mils each coat will be AND how many gallons of materials they will use to reach that thickness. We can help you with the math to make sure it adds up.

I think the next step for you is to dig a little deeper and really understand what you are going to get for the money with each of them.

 

[thegarageguy]

Originally I thought this was a DIY project. My bad. I think the products an installer uses should come secondary to their actual experience.

Check their references, see some finished jobs that are a few years old and go with whom you feel more comfortable with. By no means should your main determining factor be the bottom line price. In this business you actually get what you pay for. Working down a contractor may result in him or her cutting product by thinning it, applying it thinner and or using inferior or cheaper costing products. I know this because we too where guilty of the same thing in the past and ended up paying for it in the end. In every case we had to go back and remove and reapply on our dime. Not every contractor you come across may stand behind their work.

 

[JD in DFW]

Contractors are famous for skimping. Many times contractors will state certain thicknesses to be applied but then they don't buy all of the product they need to actually put down what they promised you. Just because you are getting 3 coats from both contractors doesn't mean that those coats are the same thickness. So, I'd make them break down materials and then I'd make sure they put down what they promised. In other words... make them state how many mils each coat will be AND how many gallons of materials they will use to reach that thickness. We can help you with the math to make sure it adds up.

I think the next step for you is to dig a little deeper and really understand what you are going to get for the money with each of them.

And manufactures of these coatings are famous and have a tendency to skimp on raw materials, reduce the solids and in general screw with the chemistry to add to their profit line. Hey thats about as general a statement as yours above..... I would bet this would apply to you as a private labeler as well....

Wolverine you might want to think before you hit the "submit" key.

JD