What Would YOU Do?

[NOVA87Wrangler]

So my wife and recently has our first child over the summer. We'd refinished the hardwood floors etc. in our fixer-upper house and painted the nursery, the whole nine yards. Now that we've seen fall/winter in the house, we've discovered that the nursery is the coldest room in the house (back corner so two exterior walls).

The house was built in the 60's, is all block and brick construction and there is no insulation in the walls, just a furring strip. Moving her into another room isn't really a fix because we want to have another kid as well so we'd just be prolonging the problem. We've been refinishing the basement and putting R-15 in and it's made a hell of a difference. The basement is actually the warmer floor in the house.

I see two options here:

1) Rip out drywall, put in R-8 rigid foam (half the R-value of the basement), replace drywall.
2) Rip out drywall, cut back hardwood floors ~2.5" to allow for 2x4 walls, install R-15 insulation, replace drywall.

A concern with #2 is that I'm a little intimidated by cutting the hardwood floor and think we'll mess it up. I'm not really concerned with the material cost difference as I am trying to make this a quick and simple project, but if we have to take out the drywall, I'm in the camp of "do it once, do it right."

What would you do?

 

[CHADD]

I would do option #2. Do it once, do it right. make sure you are not redoing it later down the road. The R-15 will keep it more insulated than the R-8.

 

[schwalby]

I would add the 2x4 walls. Cutting the floor shouldn't be hard just use some wide masking tape to set your cut line and also protect the floor from where the saw will be sliding along it. If there are little imperfections in the cut baseboard modeling will hide it.

 

[SGKent]

I would think it through carefully. A house built in the 1960's will have lead paint so you will need to be careful. I would not use the basement unless it is checked for Radon gas, mold and little critters first.

You might consider having an insulation contractor come in and fill the voids with expanding foam.

 

[Falcon67]

#2 - once you open the walls, you do it all - as much insulation as you can get, plug runs, etc. Don't skimp, make the most of the mess. If the budget allowed, I'd think about spray foam. I think there would be a lot of advantages for your type of build, in spite of the cost.

 

[tjpavlov]

Check out insofast panels. insofast.com

They make a rigid foam board with plastic studs molded in. They ship them directly to you and you just glue them to the brick/stone walls. Drywall gets adhered to them. I am thinking about using them in my basement this summer. Be the guinea pig and let me know how it works out!

 

[pmiranda]

The floor seems like the easy part. Relocating electrical seems like a pain, but you can do it... just do it right, and if you haven't been in the walls before you might get some surprises that need to be brought up to code. You'll also have to trim out the windows and doors, which could be interesting.

 

[Steevo]

I am unclear on why you need to cut back hardwood floors?
Others seem to be following, but I don't get it.
I'd pull off sheet rock, fur out the stud walls to whatever depth you wish them to be, right on top of the hardwood floor, insulate and install new sheet rock. Why worry about cutting back the floor?

 

[Akfrostbyte]

Is adding exterior insulation such as foam boards and siding an option for you?

 

[NOVA87Wrangler]

I am unclear on why you need to cut back hardwood floors?
Others seem to be following, but I don't get it.
I'd pull off sheet rock, fur out the stud walls to whatever depth you wish them to be, right on top of the hardwood floor, insulate and install new sheet rock. Why worry about cutting back the floor?

Putting the walls over the hardwood floor would make it really hard to remove the hardwood flooring if we ever need to replace it, which is likely considering this is a family house, great location and a 1/2 acre lot in an area dominated by 1/4 acres, and we plan on staying here indefinitely.

Akfrostbyte - I considered exterior insulation, but the entire exterior is brick and adding insulation and cladding it is not in the budget right now. We also looked at some companies to drill holes and spray foam the voids, as SGKent suggested, but it amounted to ~$2k for just these two walls and still an R-value less than 10.

Pmiranda - I shouldn't need to relocate any of the electrical other than changing out the boxes and attaching them to the new studs. The whole house is copper, no aluminum, and unlike most rooms, this one has pretty adequate outlet spacing. I redid all the electrical in the basement when we refinished it and other than a few hack jobs by the handyman who did it back in the 60's, the wiring was in really good shape.

I guess you guys sold me on #2, so I'll go that route. Falcon67 also got me thinking though and I might go ahead and replace the 2 windows while I'm at it. Gotta see how old they are when I get home because I know that the upper floor windows were redone at some point just not sure when. In the basement there were gaps up to 1" wide where you could see right through to daylight in the original frames.

 

[PWC Repair]

Why don't you call an insulation company that can come out and blow insulation into the block from inside the house. It's done all the time in old houses. Then you just have a line of 1.5" holes in the drywall to patch up. Sometimes it can be done from the outside but with the brick yours would likely be done from inside.

 

[54FordPanel]

I'd do #2, and replace any windows in that room while you're at it. I'd even stud the walls with 2x6, which would get you even better insulation.

And I'm with Steevo on cutting the floors. You say it's in case you need to replace them? I guess that's your call, you may see that as something that needs done? You just had them refinished, I think they'd be good for the next 30 years.

 

[K13]

I assume this room is on the top floor of the house. Have you checked the insulation in the attic? That is where most of your heat loss is going to occur. As for the walls I agree with the others do it right and go with #2.

 

[signcrafter]

The floor and walls is the easy part. I would rip out the existing drywall. Put masking tape down on the first foot or so of wood flooring. Measure in 6 1/2" from the block on each end and snap a line, for a 2x6 wall. This gives you 1/2" of play for uneven block walls, 5 1/2" for studs, and 1/2" for drywall. You can even go a little more to give you some wiggle room since you will have floor trim. Cut the floor with a good blade on a circular saw set to the right depth. You might have to use a handsaw or something else at the corners. Then nail down your bottom plate keeping it 3/4" from the hardwood floor, this will allow for 1/2" drywall and a little gap that trim will cover. Then use a plumb bob or laser to shoot a line for your top plate and then fill in with studs. Then do your electrical, you will have to figure out how to extend the boxes or whatever needs to be done. Also will have to figure out your heating if the registers or whatever are close to the walls. Then either spray foam or batt insulation and then drywall. If you are going to do it you might as well get as much insulation as you can in there.

 

[BlindViper]

Personally I would install the wall over the hardwood and not touch the existing drywall. I hate dust. If you just had the floors refinished you should be good for 35-40 years.

 

[NOVA87Wrangler]

I'd do #2, and replace any windows in that room while you're at it. I'd even stud the walls with 2x6, which would get you even better insulation.

And I'm with Steevo on cutting the floors. You say it's in case you need to replace them? I guess that's your call, you may see that as something that needs done? You just had them refinished, I think they'd be good for the next 30 years.

To be honest, the floors probably could have been replaced when we just refinished them. I think they'll last 10-15 more years with our big dogs and kid(s) so I don't want to kick myself down the road for not taking the time to cut the floor the first time.

K13 - Just before we moved in, we blew around 18" of cellulose in the attic, so we're good to go there.

 

[NOVA87Wrangler]

The floor and walls is the easy part. I would rip out the existing drywall. Put masking tape down on the first foot or so of wood flooring. Measure in 6 1/2" from the block on each end and snap a line, for a 2x6 wall. This gives you 1/2" of play for uneven block walls, 5 1/2" for studs, and 1/2" for drywall. You can even go a little more to give you some wiggle room since you will have floor trim. Cut the floor with a good blade on a circular saw set to the right depth. You might have to use a handsaw or something else at the corners. Then nail down your bottom plate keeping it 3/4" from the hardwood floor, this will allow for 1/2" drywall and a little gap that trim will cover. Then use a plumb bob or laser to shoot a line for your top plate and then fill in with studs. Then do your electrical, you will have to figure out how to extend the boxes or whatever needs to be done. Also will have to figure out your heating if the registers or whatever are close to the walls. Then either spray foam or batt insulation and then drywall. If you are going to do it you might as well get as much insulation as you can in there.

I'd love to go for a 2x6 wall, but the one register in the room is on an interior wall near the corner with the exterior wall. I can squeek by with a 2x4, but 2x6 would put the wall over the vent and that causes too many headaches.

 

[woodrail]

Here's probably what I would do:

Leave the exisiting drywall up. Cut the floor out. 2x4 studs, batt insulation, 1/2" drywall. Move the electrical boxes. Extend the window stools. Paint. Drink.

 

[JimVonBaden]

I am unclear on why you need to cut back hardwood floors?
Others seem to be following, but I don't get it.
I'd pull off sheet rock, fur out the stud walls to whatever depth you wish them to be, right on top of the hardwood floor, insulate and install new sheet rock. Why worry about cutting back the floor?

I agree, and I too don't understand why cutting the floor?

Jim

 

[justanengineer]

The house was built in the 60's, is all block and brick construction and there is no insulation in the walls, just a furring strip. Moving her into another room isn't really a fix because we want to have another kid as well so we'd just be prolonging the problem.

You need to look at your windows, ceiling/attic insulation, and the air flow inside your house. Everybody is missing it, including you, but brick is one of the best natural insulators you can have. I grew up in a brick house built in the early 80s with no insulation in the walls and also live in a similar one currently from the 40s, both of which are quite a bit north of you in much colder climates. Neither were/are cold. I also have ~18 inches of blown in cellulose in the attic and frankly my house now is freakin HOT and DRY. Tonight for example, 11F outside and the furnace has kicked on maybe four times for 3-4 minutes each in the past seven hours with the thermostat set at 72F.

Frankly, people today seem to spend a ton of time trying to "fix" a "lack" of insulation in older houses, ASSuming that others have simply put up with living in a cold house for decades when they really werent ever cold until someone either "improved" something or allowed something to break or get old.

 

[BMcC]

Go with Option 2. You said you have another room that you want to reserve for kid #2, so my suggestion would be to do that room first, while nobody is in it. Then move your daughter into the refinished room, and then stud and insulate the nursery.