Wondering what y’all’s thoughts are for a good quality long lasting air compressor. Looking at something 30-80 gallons. Not sure if I need a two stage but I’m sure it’d be nice. Is it worth saving money and going with a husky or kobalt? Or spend some more for an IR or Quincy, Campbell Hausfeld, etc. not sure what brands are good, would love your thoughts!
What’s a good quality long lasting air compressor?
- Thread starter Coryc1
- Start date
maybe start with what you're using it for, how often does it get used, what sort of power you have available, single or 3 phase etc
Ilikeike
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Champion
Quincy
...
Quincy
...
finn
Well-known member
Kobalt, and, I think Husky, are CH, painted and stickered for their respective retailers.
Your question can’t really be answered without intended use and buffet information.
How many hours do you expect to actually run it over the next twenty years? Do you have a fifty amp 240 volt circuit or a 15 amp 120v circuit? Are you media blasting and require 25scfm @ 90 psi, or are you inflating pool toys?
Your question can’t really be answered without intended use and buffet information.
How many hours do you expect to actually run it over the next twenty years? Do you have a fifty amp 240 volt circuit or a 15 amp 120v circuit? Are you media blasting and require 25scfm @ 90 psi, or are you inflating pool toys?
All good pointers and questions above.
I'll ask a few questions myself. What kind of space do you have? Is it just a small corner in the garage or a corner in the basement or are you in the beginning stages of setting up 1000 square foot shop? Are you just filling some tires and running some small nailers and blowing things off? What do you currently have for air tools? Planning on painting with it? What is on the wish list for air tools?
I have a small DIY shop. I got by with a 2nd hand Porter Cable pancake compressor I paid $40 for 8 years (still have it). I replaced it with a larger jobsite compressor a Dewalt 55146. Both sat or sit under the bench. I have no floor space to sacrifice for a free standing compressor so a jobsite is it. That suits my needs.
So, do an assessment of what you are looking at and you will get a far better answer.
I'll ask a few questions myself. What kind of space do you have? Is it just a small corner in the garage or a corner in the basement or are you in the beginning stages of setting up 1000 square foot shop? Are you just filling some tires and running some small nailers and blowing things off? What do you currently have for air tools? Planning on painting with it? What is on the wish list for air tools?
I have a small DIY shop. I got by with a 2nd hand Porter Cable pancake compressor I paid $40 for 8 years (still have it). I replaced it with a larger jobsite compressor a Dewalt 55146. Both sat or sit under the bench. I have no floor space to sacrifice for a free standing compressor so a jobsite is it. That suits my needs.
So, do an assessment of what you are looking at and you will get a far better answer.
Hi guys, sorry should have specified:
As far as space goes, I have room for a stationary vertical compressor. horizontals wont work.
I am not a full blown shop, just a hobby shop, but wrench on a lot of stuff. Will be used for everything from air hammers, sanders, inflators, impact wrenches, die grinders, cut off tools.
Working on everything from paint and fiberglass work (sanders, die grinders,) car maintenance/repair (air hammer, inflator, impacts, etc)
trailer maintenance/repair, etc ,etc.
Will not be using it for many hours straight and not everyday. sometimes may not use it for a couple weeks straight. Will not be using it for massive air machines or tools, or in an industrial environment.
As far as space goes, I have room for a stationary vertical compressor. horizontals wont work.
I am not a full blown shop, just a hobby shop, but wrench on a lot of stuff. Will be used for everything from air hammers, sanders, inflators, impact wrenches, die grinders, cut off tools.
Working on everything from paint and fiberglass work (sanders, die grinders,) car maintenance/repair (air hammer, inflator, impacts, etc)
trailer maintenance/repair, etc ,etc.
Will not be using it for many hours straight and not everyday. sometimes may not use it for a couple weeks straight. Will not be using it for massive air machines or tools, or in an industrial environment.
59 wagon man
Well-known member
i have had my hf upright for 15 yrs now i think its 60 gal
csp
Well-known member
The 55 year old Quincy 216 I bought for $300 seems to have proven itself to be quality and long lasting. I liked it so much that I grabbed a 26 year old 325 for $350 when I saw it advertised for sale. Now both shops have solid air supplies.
Don1357
Well-known member
Air needs are divided into two categories; intermittent air such as nailers that can be run with just about anything and air hogs to which the first consideration is CFM, the second is CFM, and the third is CFM.
If you need as high a CFM as humanly possible to drive air hogs such as sanders and grinders, the fact that a comoppressor is two stage is downright a gimmick; they will empty whatever tank size no matter how much air was shoved there at which point you are at the mercy of how fast the pump can give you air. High enough CFM and you can work without interruption for as long as you need. Not enough and you'll have to keep waiting for the tank to fill over and over and over again.
If your tool is drawing 10CFM@90PSI a compressor with a max of 135 PSI and 12CFM@90PSI is immensely more useful than one that goes to 200PSI but only delivers 7CFM@90PSI.
If you need as high a CFM as humanly possible to drive air hogs such as sanders and grinders, the fact that a comoppressor is two stage is downright a gimmick; they will empty whatever tank size no matter how much air was shoved there at which point you are at the mercy of how fast the pump can give you air. High enough CFM and you can work without interruption for as long as you need. Not enough and you'll have to keep waiting for the tank to fill over and over and over again.
If your tool is drawing 10CFM@90PSI a compressor with a max of 135 PSI and 12CFM@90PSI is immensely more useful than one that goes to 200PSI but only delivers 7CFM@90PSI.
vanapplebomb
Well-known member
Don, what you say is true, but it is not so simple, and there is more to it than just CFM.
You have to take into consideration duty cycle, heat, wear and tear, and also air line pressure requirements for tools.
Consider a typical 135psi single stage compressor. With a 25’ 3/8” hose, 3/8” or High flow couplers, 135 psi will get you about 90 psi working pressure At high consumption tools. By that I mean 1/2” impacts, drills, sanders, die grinders, etc. But, keep in mind that this is at the compressors kick off pressure. By the time the compressor kicks on, you Have dropped to 105psi. That’s going to result in a pretty dramatic loss in pressure at the tool, and be very noticeably down on power. Now, if you are running an HVLP gun, who cares, because most run 20-50psi, but for most common tools, you are going to deal the drop. It’s even worse with a 50’ hose. It was an incredible pain in the **** to run my 1.3hp 4-1/2” angle grinder consistently off a typical 135psi single stage compressor. Same with air drills using hole saws. Drill half way through and run out of power. Been there, tried that, didn’t work out. When trying to get a job done, it’s incredibly frustrating to deal with the large fluctuations in power as pressure drops.
With a two stage 175 psi compressor, the kick on pressure is typically 135-145 psi. With this set-up, I can set a regulator to 120-130psi, and run air tools with no fluctuations in power, which is huge when hogging away material with a grinder, or using hole saws on a drill. As long as tool usage is at or below compressor output, the two stage will give you enough head room to maintain working pressure at the tool.
There is a durability factor as well. Compressing air requires considerable force and also results in a lot of heat. Single stage compressors do this compression all in one shot. If the kick off pressure is 135psi, the pressure in the cylinder is at least 135psi as the piston nears tdc. With a two stage, each stage shares the load. The first stage is usually around 70-120 psi, and the final small high pressure cylinder piston takes it to 175. This results in less heat in each cylinder because neither one of them is pumping the air up as much as a typical single stage compressor. Then there is the load side of it as well. For a similar swept displacement, the single stage will see higher forces on the piston skirts, piston pins, rods, rod bearings, etc... as a result of the higher internal pressure. You may say the two stage has higher pressure on the second stage. Yes, but remember the piston is smaller and has far less surface area, so the force on downstream parts is still lower. Less pressure on the bearings, etc results in longer wearing pumps given similar materials and tolerances. add all this up, and it is why most single stage compressors have lower duty cycles than two stage compressors. There are good and bad examples of both, but the average is far easier to deal with heat and wear in two stage designed than in single stage.
You have to take into consideration duty cycle, heat, wear and tear, and also air line pressure requirements for tools.
Consider a typical 135psi single stage compressor. With a 25’ 3/8” hose, 3/8” or High flow couplers, 135 psi will get you about 90 psi working pressure At high consumption tools. By that I mean 1/2” impacts, drills, sanders, die grinders, etc. But, keep in mind that this is at the compressors kick off pressure. By the time the compressor kicks on, you Have dropped to 105psi. That’s going to result in a pretty dramatic loss in pressure at the tool, and be very noticeably down on power. Now, if you are running an HVLP gun, who cares, because most run 20-50psi, but for most common tools, you are going to deal the drop. It’s even worse with a 50’ hose. It was an incredible pain in the **** to run my 1.3hp 4-1/2” angle grinder consistently off a typical 135psi single stage compressor. Same with air drills using hole saws. Drill half way through and run out of power. Been there, tried that, didn’t work out. When trying to get a job done, it’s incredibly frustrating to deal with the large fluctuations in power as pressure drops.
With a two stage 175 psi compressor, the kick on pressure is typically 135-145 psi. With this set-up, I can set a regulator to 120-130psi, and run air tools with no fluctuations in power, which is huge when hogging away material with a grinder, or using hole saws on a drill. As long as tool usage is at or below compressor output, the two stage will give you enough head room to maintain working pressure at the tool.
There is a durability factor as well. Compressing air requires considerable force and also results in a lot of heat. Single stage compressors do this compression all in one shot. If the kick off pressure is 135psi, the pressure in the cylinder is at least 135psi as the piston nears tdc. With a two stage, each stage shares the load. The first stage is usually around 70-120 psi, and the final small high pressure cylinder piston takes it to 175. This results in less heat in each cylinder because neither one of them is pumping the air up as much as a typical single stage compressor. Then there is the load side of it as well. For a similar swept displacement, the single stage will see higher forces on the piston skirts, piston pins, rods, rod bearings, etc... as a result of the higher internal pressure. You may say the two stage has higher pressure on the second stage. Yes, but remember the piston is smaller and has far less surface area, so the force on downstream parts is still lower. Less pressure on the bearings, etc results in longer wearing pumps given similar materials and tolerances. add all this up, and it is why most single stage compressors have lower duty cycles than two stage compressors. There are good and bad examples of both, but the average is far easier to deal with heat and wear in two stage designed than in single stage.
And you said paint? 5HP minimum... as in the 240V, 60+ gal league. Oiled cast iron pump. I'd go for more air vs paying extra for a name, JMHO. 2-stage may be quieter. I'll be sad when they retire the old/quiet 3-lung iron comp at work and replace it with a noisy aluminum V-twin.
What about something like this? I've been considering it myself and am interested to hear any opinions on it.
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/ingersoll-rand-80-gallon-5-hp-reciprocating-air-compressor
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/ingersoll-rand-80-gallon-5-hp-reciprocating-air-compressor
BlakeTheCarGuy
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I’ve heard good things on the McGraw at Harbor Freight based on everyone I know that has one. I know a lot of people who like DeWalt compressors as well I know they make some pretty big ones too. I have a Craftsman 20 gallon that my dad bought new in 1997 that thing works great never let me down.
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HMCFab9
Well-known member
Quincy.
I.R.
I.R.
vanapplebomb
Well-known member
In that price range, I would not consider IR compressors. Especially the ones with the SS3 or SS5 pumps. With IR, you pay for the name these days. To get a good IR compressor, you need to spend another grand before you get a good compressor from them. Same with Quincy QT 5 compressors. Pay for the name, get an average at best compressor.
See if you can find a used Saylor Beall 5hp compressor. Sometimes you can pick them up for a good bargain. They are one heck of a compressor, even if it is 20 years old, if it runs, I wouldn’t think twice about snapping it up. One of the best reciprocating pumps out there.
If you must get a new compressor, I think the best bang for the buck These days is something made by Sanborn MFG. Their HB55 pump is pretty nice and has good efficiency. Look for any compressor out there that runs it. They sell them under dozens of names. Sanborn, Industrial Air, MagnaForce, Dewalt, etc... either the 60 or 80 gallon two stage will be good.
Since you listed die grinders and a wanted tool, for continuous use, you are looking at a 5hp compressor to keep up. You can get by with a 60 gallon 3hp compressor, but anything less than that is really frustrating to work with. Die grinders are air hogs, and they will empty a smaller tank quickly, and there is no 115V compressor out there that can keep up with it. If you run it continuously, you would be lucky to maintain 45psi working pressure at the tool. Don’t be fooled by what the box said on the die grinder, even small ones can draw 8-12 SCFM. They usually advertise for a 25 or 50 percent duty cycle.
See if you can find a used Saylor Beall 5hp compressor. Sometimes you can pick them up for a good bargain. They are one heck of a compressor, even if it is 20 years old, if it runs, I wouldn’t think twice about snapping it up. One of the best reciprocating pumps out there.
If you must get a new compressor, I think the best bang for the buck These days is something made by Sanborn MFG. Their HB55 pump is pretty nice and has good efficiency. Look for any compressor out there that runs it. They sell them under dozens of names. Sanborn, Industrial Air, MagnaForce, Dewalt, etc... either the 60 or 80 gallon two stage will be good.
Since you listed die grinders and a wanted tool, for continuous use, you are looking at a 5hp compressor to keep up. You can get by with a 60 gallon 3hp compressor, but anything less than that is really frustrating to work with. Die grinders are air hogs, and they will empty a smaller tank quickly, and there is no 115V compressor out there that can keep up with it. If you run it continuously, you would be lucky to maintain 45psi working pressure at the tool. Don’t be fooled by what the box said on the die grinder, even small ones can draw 8-12 SCFM. They usually advertise for a 25 or 50 percent duty cycle.
finn
Well-known member
You can’t generate your own laws of physics. Compressing a given amount of air to a given pressure generates the same amount of heat whether it’s done in one, two, or a hundred stages.
The multi stage compressor will typically have a small inter stage cooler, usually a copper or aluminum tube with fins in the vaned pulley airstream, that transfers some of the heat to the atmosphere.though.
Also, have a chance to buy one of these new for $500
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Kobalt-60-Gallon-Two-Stage-Electric-Vertical-Air-Compressor/1000542193
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Kobalt-60-Gallon-Two-Stage-Electric-Vertical-Air-Compressor/1000542193
SarcasticDwarf
Well-known member
What exactly is of poor quality on the QT5 when compared to the others in that price range. Most of the Industrial Air, Dewalt, etc. compressors are significantly cheaper than the QT5.
I think this is going to be a very hard question to answer. It sounds like a 3hp (ie 240V, 15A) is the absolute minimum that should be considered and you are far better off with a true 5hp or even 7.5hp model. True 5hp will be over 20A, 240V.
Basically you might be able to get by with a 3hp setup. If your sanding is "front time to time" and you don't mind the occasional pauses even a 3hp might be sufficient. A 5hp is about the minimum that would be able to do the jobs continuously (ie the pump flow rate can keep up with the tools).
But part of what will decide how reliable the compressor is will be the usage and duty cycle. If you are sanding for several hours a day then you are really going to need a compressor with 100% duty cycle (I don't think all the $1000-1400 new compressors are 100%). If you use the compressor less often then a lighter duty compressor can still last a very long time. Some of the features that can make a compressor more reliable under heavy use are overkill for lighter use. There is certainly a difference between someone who uses their compressor really hard one weekend a quarter vs a compressor in a production shop that gets used moderately hard 5 days a week. Towing an 8000lb trailer with an F150 is probably fine if you are only doing it occasionally. However, if you want to tow 8000lb on long hauls or daily an F250/F350 makes sense.
Anyway, things like magnetic starters add $100 or more to the cost of a compressor but they are better able to handle motor switching duties vs a simple pressure switch. Same with disc valves vs reed valves used on most lower cost compressors. Again, same with 3450 rpm vs 1725 rpm motors (forgive me if those aren't quite the correct speeds).
Basically you need to figure out not just what the highest load tools will be but how often you will use them. That will help people better understand you needs.
My father used to do a lot of painting and sanding. He had a Champion R5 (or VR5) based compressor. That's the sort of compressor that would handle your needs nicely if your budget was higher and if you were doing this day in day out. Currently my father is using an 80 gallon Campbell Hausfeld - Husky 2 stage compressor that would be right in your price range.
(this is a very similar model)
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-8...ry-2-Stage-Air-Compressor-HDC802000/312943642
I'm certain it can't take heavy use as well as his Champion could but his daily use isn't what it used to be. His peak use is a sand blaster so still quite high but that is an occasional use tool. His drills, die grinders etc are fine with his current compressor and given the lighter daily work load this compressor will likely last for many years.
Basically you might be able to get by with a 3hp setup. If your sanding is "front time to time" and you don't mind the occasional pauses even a 3hp might be sufficient. A 5hp is about the minimum that would be able to do the jobs continuously (ie the pump flow rate can keep up with the tools).
But part of what will decide how reliable the compressor is will be the usage and duty cycle. If you are sanding for several hours a day then you are really going to need a compressor with 100% duty cycle (I don't think all the $1000-1400 new compressors are 100%). If you use the compressor less often then a lighter duty compressor can still last a very long time. Some of the features that can make a compressor more reliable under heavy use are overkill for lighter use. There is certainly a difference between someone who uses their compressor really hard one weekend a quarter vs a compressor in a production shop that gets used moderately hard 5 days a week. Towing an 8000lb trailer with an F150 is probably fine if you are only doing it occasionally. However, if you want to tow 8000lb on long hauls or daily an F250/F350 makes sense.
Anyway, things like magnetic starters add $100 or more to the cost of a compressor but they are better able to handle motor switching duties vs a simple pressure switch. Same with disc valves vs reed valves used on most lower cost compressors. Again, same with 3450 rpm vs 1725 rpm motors (forgive me if those aren't quite the correct speeds).
Basically you need to figure out not just what the highest load tools will be but how often you will use them. That will help people better understand you needs.
My father used to do a lot of painting and sanding. He had a Champion R5 (or VR5) based compressor. That's the sort of compressor that would handle your needs nicely if your budget was higher and if you were doing this day in day out. Currently my father is using an 80 gallon Campbell Hausfeld - Husky 2 stage compressor that would be right in your price range.
(this is a very similar model)
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-8...ry-2-Stage-Air-Compressor-HDC802000/312943642
I'm certain it can't take heavy use as well as his Champion could but his daily use isn't what it used to be. His peak use is a sand blaster so still quite high but that is an occasional use tool. His drills, die grinders etc are fine with his current compressor and given the lighter daily work load this compressor will likely last for many years.
vanapplebomb
Well-known member
It’s not about total heat generated, it’s about individual cylinders. Per cylinder, a two stage compressor is compressing the air less, so the internal temperature is less than that of a single stage. Less internal heat per cylinder is far easier to disparate than having to deal with high internal temps like you see in single stage units. It’s one of the big reasons most single stage compressors often times have lower duty cycles than their two stage counterparts.
vanapplebomb
Well-known member
Note I did not say poor quality. It’s an average compressor. An expensive average, bench the poor value for money.
The newer QT5 compressors have been having quality control issues. The most common I see is compression fittings not properly tightened, resulting in leaks. Under tightened fittings are easy to fix...just tighten it another half turn. Over tightened compression fittings are not salvageable because the leak just gets worse the more you tighten. This requires new fittings, and frequently a new transfer tube if it can’t be extended enough without loosing the goose neck to compensate for the couple inches you have to cut off. I also have not been to impressed with the pump. I don’t see where the QT5 pump is $400-500 more pump than the HB55 pump. Is it a good pump, sure, but it’s a rip-off.
On the plus side, the QT5 compressors have a good motor/starter, and the tanks are solid.
The Industrial Air IV5038055 is a comparable compressor for several hundred less, but still a bit above the posters budget. The V5048055 is in budget, same pump, but uses a less expensive tops Century motor.
cwise
Member
I had an old Craftsman (made by Devilbiss) 5 HP (not true 5 HP) that did all the stuff you mentioned for 20yrs with no trouble. Pump was aluminum, ran off 220 20A circuit. You can find these cheap used, probably less than $200. I upgraded to an Atlas Copco RS for the quiet, but that is outside your budget.
SarcasticDwarf
Well-known member
Is there a comparable compressor that is single phase? The IV5038055 is 3-phase.
finn
Well-known member
I’m not arguing that, all things considered, a two stage compressor may be a better option. Just correcting the inaccurate post that suggests the two stage compressor gets around the laws of physics.
The inter stage cooling and reduced pressure ratio across the individual pistons are certainly advantageous from a durability and design standpoint, all other things being equal (which they never are)
I just chose a small two stage Kobalt 30 gallon compressor over a single stage Husky (both CH manufactured) for my small garage at the Arizona house. The two stage has a lower cfm rating but higher pressure capability, at about the same cost. My reasoning is that the lower pressure ratio across the individual stages should increase life
Jazz1
Well-known member
Big dollar item( compressor, welder) buy a brand that can supply parts down the road. Way down the road. Big Box store units parts are obsolete soon as you load it in your cart. IMO
vanapplebomb
Well-known member
Yes, any compressor they have with a Baldor motor is available single and three phase. Model number for single phase is IV5018055
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
The old Sears/Craftman 2-5 hp compressors are real workhorses and as long as the tank was emptied so the they did not rust out they are still a good buy.
The green painted one with regulator on the tank nose are the oldest. Then the tan ones with a center "console" and then the brown ones also with a center console.
I have been looking for a 3hp, 30 gallon one for a long time !
vanapplebomb
Well-known member
The laws of physics are why two stage compressors are used for higher pressures. To pump up to a high pressure all in one shot puts a lot of extra stress on moving parts and the internal temperatures get very high. There is no way around that, it is what it is.
Real world example, the discharge tube temp from my two stage compressor is ~180F once fully pressurized to 175psi. The tube exiting the first stage into the Interstage cooler is ~170F. My old 135psi single stage discharge tube would boil off water if dripped on. That is a pretty big difference.
Anyways, this has gone a bit off topic.
My original suggestion stands. Look for a used Saylor Beall. If the price is right and it runs, I would snap it up. They are still making and servicing them here in Michigan. Top notch stuff. You can probably find a 705 pump for a good deal if you have patience. Let’s just say, there is a reason that there are many overseas knock-offs of the 705 pump. Even some of the knock-offs are pretty good.
A vintage one, as it can be rebuilt.
That really depends on the model/OEM. Many of the Campbell Hausfeld or Sanborn pumps have changed little over the years. Many of the cheap 3hp, 60 gallon compressors were basically generic CH stuff so replacement parts will be around for years to come. Also, other than the pump itself most other parts are generic/substitutable.
redmondjp
Well-known member
Yes, they are one of the best bang-for-the-buck compressors that you can find out there right now. You add a [insert truck tool company name here] label to one of their units and it doubles the MSRP.
If you decide to go the cheaper route I've been very happy with my Dewalt 60 gallon and Tractor Supply had them on sale for $500 last I knew. Believe they are made by Sanborn which OEMs many of the lower tier units. I would have bought a used higher end one if I could have found close enough.
finn
Well-known member
Yes, we understand why there are two stage compressors. That wasn’t the issue.
I have three of them now.