Whats going on with sk tools.?

[mrjaw14]

FWIW, I have a ton of SK stuff and want them to succeed. But to do that they need to evaluate some hard truths and react accordingly.

Snap On commands a premium for truck service and warranty. Every time I've had to warranty something with SK shipping is on my dime and I have to wait weeks for it. That's ok if the tools are cheaper than Snap On, which 5 years ago they were, but I'm not going to pay within 30% of Snap On cost for something with less name recognition and the warranty arrangement which costs me not only money but time and loss of use waiting for the item to be shipped back. Even if I have to call Snap On my warranty is here within 2 days usually. No one but Mac and Matco can play in Snap On's sandbox. Everyone one else is a mid-grade and should have mid-range prices. Wright I think understands this and is priced accordingly. SK never really got on the industrial band wagon which permitted Wright and other industrial tool MFR's to stay afloat. I wonder who exactly is SK's target customer? They need to figure that out and cater, market, and price accordingly if they want to succeed. Like I said, I have a lot of SK stuff and I want them to be around, but this business of thinking they command snap on prices will drive people to snap on. No matter how much they say it they will never be snap on because their business model is different. If they can't figure that out they're doomed.

 

[four.cycle]

"...SK is below truck and industrial brands..."

Only in terms of price.
If you polled every member on this website, I'm sure you would find there are a lot of guys who've been using S-K tools their entire lives without any issues. Are the tools they've been using all those years somehow "below" some truck brand?
I myself have used one brand (NOT S-K) almost exclusively for over 50 years without any problems. Is it still "below" some truck brand?

it's called "Confirmation Bias" - and generally has very little to do with the actual quality of the product itself.

 

[ForrestT]

Do you guys consider SK to be on the same level as Proto, Wright, and Armstrong (before it was shuttered)?

I have a ****-ton of SK. I buy it lightly used for pennies or old NOS for a fraction of what SK would charge. I would never pay retail for SK. I guess what I am saying is that I think SK is below truck and industrial brands.

What do you guys think?

I think it is very comparable. Great quality at a good price. And an even better deal when you can buy gently used.

 

[Professional Tool User]

Do you guys consider SK to be on the same level as Proto, Wright, and Armstrong (before it was shuttered)?

I have a ****-ton of SK. I buy it lightly used for pennies or old NOS for a fraction of what SK would charge. I would never pay retail for SK. I guess what I am saying is that I think SK is below truck and industrial brands.

What do you guys think?

SK didn't have that great of a reputation in the quality control department even before Ideal took over. The other USA made industrial brands aren't perfect, but their quality control reputation remains intact. That being said, USA made tools are worth buying, but at what price is the question. SK at a significant discount, new or used, is worth considering. Proto is not worth buying new, but is excellent value when buying used. Armstrong is going to have to be heavily discounted as it is a defunct brand now.

 

[Davefr]

SK's "sand box" has historically been automotive pros/serious DIY'ers who shop at retail. (primarily parts stores). There was also some spillover into industrial. I would consider their tools commensurate with the tool truck/industrial tools at the time.

However after Dresser they really went downhill under Facom and Ideal. They lost their retail placements, floundered online and were out marketed. They also struggled to innovate.

I can't say I see a place for them going forward. Tekton is the current online "sweatheart", HF owns retail B&M, the parts store have their own offerings and the other industrial brands/tool truck brands continue their traditional course. Unlike the name "Craftsman", the name SK carries negligible brand equity IMHO.

 

[four.cycle]

^ the demographic where S-K still has/had significant brand recognition and brand loyalty is either dying off or has reached that "saturation point" where they just don't need to keep buying lots of tools.

 

[ecotec]

Only in terms of price.
If you polled every member on this website, I'm sure you would find there are a lot of guys who've been using S-K tools their entire lives without any issues. Are the tools they've been using all those years somehow "below" some truck brand?
I myself have used one brand (NOT S-K) almost exclusively for over 50 years without any problems. Is it still "below" some truck brand?

it's called "Confirmation Bias" - and generally has very little to do with the actual quality of the product itself.

Over speculation? Makes zero sense.

Did you feel the same way when they were owned by the french?

The American made SK during Facom was both union and not-Chinese.

 

[VolvoRyan]

^ the demographic where S-K still has/had significant brand recognition and brand loyalty is either dying off or has reached that "saturation point" where they just don't need to keep buying lots of tools.

Very good point. I hit a point where I owned every metric tool SK made. Saturated.

I'm well in my 40's now, but am still probably one of the youngest folks for whom SK meant something. 20-30 years ago, SK was a nudge above Craftsman, and the parts stores still sold bendy import tools. Then the internet came...

-Ryan

 

[Wrench97]

I've never liked the round head ratchet, just too clunky once you got use to the snap on 72 teeth models and now my go to has been a slim head matco.
The sockets themselves are ok but even back in the 70's a 6 point snap on was top of the game in the 3/8" to 5/8" corroded fastener department.

 

[belvedere]

Do you guys consider SK to be on the same level as Proto, Wright, and Armstrong (before it was shuttered)?

What do you guys think?

yes

 

[bob15]

The American made SK during Facom was both union and not-Chinese.

And they are still American made, so what it your point?

 

[ecotec]

And they are still American made, so what it your point?

Just two great reasons to not feel the same way about SK.

I do not have a dog in this hunt. I have a few hundred SK tools, and I only paid retail for a couple 1/4” drive 16mm shallows and a couple 1/4” drive 15mm deeps.

 

[tarbellb]

Ill go on record and say

hardline will be exported and the cheap plastic stuff will stay here to give SK a way to claim USA made still

 

[CHI_Tool&Die]

Do you guys consider SK to be on the same level as Proto, Wright, and Armstrong (before it was shuttered)?

I have a ****-ton of SK. I buy it lightly used for pennies or old NOS for a fraction of what SK would charge. I would never pay retail for SK. I guess what I am saying is that I think SK is below truck and industrial brands.

What do you guys think?

I honestly think SK is up there with the tool truck brands and above the mainline industrial brands and I say that as a huge Proto fan.

All of my SK stuff has been incredibly robust. I love their roundhead ratchets and the sockets have a better weight and fit than any of my industrial brand stuff. BUT, SK really needs to get on top of it with quality control and that is what kills them. My Proto, Williams, and Wright stuff is excellent coming out of the box. So is my Mac stuff. I’ve had crazy issues with my SK tools. Besides the QC, their customer service ***** and now the move to the new plant seems to have gone off the rails.

I would gladly pay a more premium price for SK stuff (and I have in the past) because I think the product is good when it’s actually finished and working correctly.

 

[Fedwrench]

^ the demographic where S-K still has/had significant brand recognition and brand loyalty is either dying off or has reached that "saturation point" where they just don't need to keep buying lots of tools.

I agree. I also think that SK not releasing new or updated items also hurt them over the years.
When I was a kid, many years ago in the San Diego area, SK was in every parts store and swap meet. It wasn't real expensive either.
Here's what I don't understand though, there's no shortage of SK tools available in the secondary market. I'll even lump in USA made Craftsman tools too. Yet, there is waay too much wringing of hands and knashing of worried teeth over what's happening with SK and SBD Craftsman. I would venture to say, you can probably find any SK tool you want on the internet. With that said, you have no one but, yourself to blame for not buying more SK tools at full list price when you had the chance to support SK.

 

[M635_Guy]

Ill go on record and say

hardline will be exported and the cheap plastic stuff will stay here to give SK a way to claim USA made still

So edgy...

 

[bobg03]

I have complete sets of 1/4 and 3/8 along with some pliers and a few hard handled screwdtivers, had them awhile, a long while and I like them. I have had some of them since the early 70's, never failed me. I miss seeing them for sale in the better hardware stores but of course most of them are gone too.

 

[Steve_P]

FWIW, I have a ton of SK stuff and want them to succeed. But to do that they need to evaluate some hard truths and react accordingly.

Snap On commands a premium for truck service and warranty. Every time I've had to warranty something with SK shipping is on my dime and I have to wait weeks for it. That's ok if the tools are cheaper than Snap On, which 5 years ago they were, but I'm not going to pay within 30% of Snap On cost for something with less name recognition and the warranty arrangement which costs me not only money but time and loss of use waiting for the item to be shipped back. Even if I have to call Snap On my warranty is here within 2 days usually. No one but Mac and Matco can play in Snap On's sandbox. Everyone one else is a mid-grade and should have mid-range prices. Wright I think understands this and is priced accordingly. SK never really got on the industrial band wagon which permitted Wright and other industrial tool MFR's to stay afloat. I wonder who exactly is SK's target customer? They need to figure that out and cater, market, and price accordingly if they want to succeed. Like I said, I have a lot of SK stuff and I want them to be around, but this business of thinking they command snap on prices will drive people to snap on. No matter how much they say it they will never be snap on because their business model is different. If they can't figure that out they're doomed.

I am in the same boat and agree 100%. Although 5+ years ago SK would ship me a prepaid label if I had a return for warranty. Wright and Proto have always primarily been industrial. SK was always tilted more towards mechanics as others have said. But now every chain parts store has their own brands and won't stock SK because no one is going to pay $25 for a spark plug socket when an import one is $9.

I have a lot of SK stuff from 5-10 years ago and the prices were ~ half of what SO charged then. At that price, I didn't mind to pay more for US made than an import like Tekton or Sunex. But I can't say that at the current SK prices; in the last few years, their prices have gotten crazy. I looked at their website a few weeks ago, curiosity and not buying anything, and their socket sets are crazy expensive, and they have rebranded Wilde pliers at ~3X Wilde's price. WTF? I can't see this working.

It will be interesting to see what will happen in the future, but they need to get the prices to realistic levels as they were in the past as far as position between Taiwan and SO. It seems they'll be a dying brand, but I guess they can have a small presence if they get their act together.

 

[vssjim]

Do you guys consider SK to be on the same level as Proto, Wright, and Armstrong (before it was shuttered)?

I have a ****-ton of SK. I buy it lightly used for pennies or old NOS for a fraction of what SK would charge. I would never pay retail for SK. I guess what I am saying is that I think SK is below truck and industrial brands.

What do you guys think?

You will never break one of those impact sockets as they are really really good as I have a deep 17 I have used for 30 plus years and still looks good as an example so I would say Proto and SK are close and I have lots of both

 

[Daytonaer]

SPY SHOTS!

I flew over yesterday and snapped some spy pictures. This is at about 3000 feet and the time of day was about 1730 local.

What I saw was......



Nothing new.

Everything at the shopvac facility in Williamsport looks just about as it has for the past few years.





I see no giant shipments or signs of moving. I don't go by often but it has looked pretty much the same for the past few years.

For comparison: here is a google maps image, no idea on date, but check out that packed parking lot!



now here are the unedited images if someone is better with zoom and ms paint.






I will be sure to share if I see anything obvious from the outside.

Enjoy the weekend.

 

[CHI_Tool&Die]

I’ve moved on from SK just like I’ve moved on from US Craftsman. Both SK and SBD are having issues and I have no idea what they are but clearly they are very big and very problematic since both have delayed their openings continuously. So I’ve been going Proto and Wright with some Wera and Ko-ken for my sockets and ratchets. I’m still curious about how SK is going to go once they get their stuff together. I feel like it may be a big change for them and I’m eager to see what it all entails.

 

[mhejl]

I just got a sign of life from SK - a replacement 1/4" LP 90 ratchet arrived yesterday. I had forgotten about calling it in last year.

I even threw away (!) the original early-vintage one because it bound up so bad and the lever was sticky in the "L" position making it pretty much unusable. I wanted to like it but ended up buying 5+ versions of Proto Precision 90 1/4 and 3/8 ratchets (and more SO, too).

New one seems good so far but I haven't had a chance to abuse it yet.

 

[Xcursion88]

My mother would say "Some people would ***** if you hung them with a new rope."

Your Mum sounds like a smart lady

 

[Xcursion88]

I have it on what I would call a decent source that they're planning to keep on keeping on with the typical hard goods. Sockets, ratchets, wrenches being Made in USA.

Consumables if you will is where the gray area is. Discontinue altogether or import cheaper and continue selling? (Pick sets as example, prybars, )
I don't know if I'd call that really a "consumable" but definitely items if they're used get messed up without abuse to the tool.

Of course people want everything free nowadays and probably try to warranty such items. Broken tipped screwdrivers...etc

 

[Ton ton]

SPY SHOTS!

I flew over yesterday and snapped some spy pictures. This is at about 3000 feet and the time of day was about 1730 local.

What I saw was......



Nothing new.

Everything at the shopvac facility in Williamsport looks just about as it has for the past few years.





I see no giant shipments or signs of moving. I don't go by often but it has looked pretty much the same for the past few years.

For comparison: here is a google maps image, no idea on date, but check out that packed parking lot!



now here are the unedited images if someone is better with zoom and ms paint.






I will be sure to share if I see anything obvious from the outside.

Enjoy the weekend.

Thank you for sharing.

 

[Crabman]

I am reading this thread with interest. I have to assume the new owners know of many of the problems with QC, customer service, etc.

So they are trying to ramp up a retooled manufacturing plant in a new location in a pandemic with big supply chain and labor issues which can't be easy. I suppose it is possible that they are taking their time with the launch to make sure that the deficiencies under Facom and Ideal are rectified. If I was managing it I would not want to sacrifice doing it right in order to open operations early. It seems like doing it correctly may be the only way to reestablish the brand.

Does anyone up in that area know if they were or are hiring folks to set up manufacturing? I don't know if they brought some of the equipment from Illinois or are buying new equipment, etc. It seems like modern computer controlled equipment might solve some of the QC issues, although I do not know a great deal about this type of manufacturing. But if they were or are hiring and there are people in the building working that would be a good sign. If they are waiting on new equipment due to supply chain issues there may not yet be a need for the workers.

I have had good luck with their tools and QC generally. My experience with the customer service has been spotty at best for a long time.

 

[VolvoRyan]

I am reading this thread with interest. I have to assume the new owners know of many of the problems with QC, customer service, etc.

So they are trying to ramp up a retooled manufacturing plant in a new location in a pandemic with big supply chain and labor issues which can't be easy. I suppose it is possible that they are taking their time with the launch to make sure that the deficiencies under Facom and Ideal are rectified. If I was managing it I would not want to sacrifice doing it right in order to open operations early. It seems like doing it correctly may be the only way to reestablish the brand.

It's nice to read an intelligent post on an SK thread.

SK seems to be doing "something". I recently got a mystery package from SK, which turned out to be the replacement 13mm wrench from an order last summer. I was surprised. I'd written it off.

I'm strongly of the same opinion you are: They've no need to rush in "relaunching" SK. There's nothing to gain and everything to lose by doing it poorly. The brand "exists", and is probably just in a holding pattern until they get tooling and employees. It's probably safe to assume that they have neither. We know that Western Forge was shut down just prior to the sale. How SK was going to make anything even before the sale was a question mark. Trying to hire anyone is like herding cats these days.

All we can do is wait n' see. Or write angry messages on internet forums.

-Ryan

 

[Daytonaer]

Updated implied progress:

I drove by the Williamsport shopvac facility on Friday and Saturday and noticed the parking lots were full! 2 industrial buildings next door also have "now hiring" signs hanging.

Sorry no pictures,

But during regular business hours and Saturday morning there are a lot of people parked in the lot so one can assume work is being done!

Have a good week.

 

[JradM]

Updated implied progress:

I drove by the Williamsport shopvac facility on Friday and Saturday and noticed the parking lots were full! 2 industrial buildings next door also have "now hiring" signs hanging.

Sorry no pictures,

But during regular business hours and Saturday morning there are a lot of people parked in the lot so one can assume work is being done!

Have a good week.

Where's the guy with the plane?

 

[Daytonaer]

It was a photo from a helicopter ;-)

Anyways, I was driving through town, not riding in a helicopter this time, so no ability to snap pictures.

 

[Schurkey]

Do you guys consider SK to be on the same level as Proto, Wright, and Armstrong (before it was shuttered)?

Equivalent to Proto (including Mac) and Wright; substantially better than Armstrong, when they had a competing tool. SKs depth of product was somewhat lacking, but then Proto and Mac and Wright can't match Snappy, either.

I have a ****-ton of SK. I buy it lightly used for pennies or old NOS for a fraction of what SK would charge. I would never pay retail for SK. I guess what I am saying is that I think SK is below truck and industrial brands.

There's no option around here for buying used SK. There's no option for pennies-on-the-dollar for any quality tools. Those that have 'em for sale, expect real money for them.

Snap-On quality AND it's truly exceptional variety of product cannot be matched anywhere else in the tool industry. Some companies make tools with equivalent quality, but no-one makes the huge variety that Snap-On has.

^ the demographic where S-K still has/had significant brand recognition and brand loyalty is either dying off or has reached that "saturation point" where they just don't need to keep buying lots of tools.

That's me. Saturated. Not dying-off (yet).

And they are still American made, so what it your point?

The point cannot be made on this forum, no matter how it's worded. But the point still exists, and it's still valid. It's just not permitted to discuss under penalty of banishment.





I sent SK an e-mail when I heard they'd been bought out by Those Who Cannot Be Named. Told them I'd been a customer, but not a big customer. A few hundred dollars over a couple of years, and that I'd been looking forward to another few hundred dollars over the next couple of years. So, overall, not a huge profit center by any means. Due to the new ownership, I was done with SK, and I was sorry to go--but gone I was.

Their reply was to send me a gift certificate for $25 or $50 or something like that. I told 'em "No, thanks" then deleted the e-mail with the certificate.

Haven't even been back to their web site until about an hour ago. Nobody home. Might as well dry up and blow away. They're another Craftsman--what once was, is no more and never will be again.

I'd be thrilled to buy used SK if it existed around here--and if I could find stuff I don't already have.

 

[Daytonaer]

Driving by again saw this sign from the highway :



I was driving so this is a pic from online.


I will be in the area so I plan to check it out, hopefully they have some sk stuff out.

 

[dnschmidt]

"What's going on with SK Tools?" That's a 25 year mystery that even Columbo couldn't solve.

 

[VolvoRyan]

"What's going on with SK Tools?" That's a 25 year mystery that even Columbo couldn't solve.

SK at least was visible 15 years ago. Ideal's ownership did them no favors. Ideal put almost zero money into the brand.... and what little R&D was done was way off base for the market. The bit ratchets were clunky.... the spark plug socket kit (with the special pouch) wasn't competitive... the X-frames were nice, but a lot of folks were turned off by the zero offset.... regardless of whether you loved/hated the LP90's, they were priced way too high for people buying SK tools. For an extra $20, you could buy the Snap-On 24" 1/2" drive ratchet.

-Ryan

 

[tarbellb]

Sure is going to make a nice vacuum and plastic goods factory

 

[ecotec]

I have a ton of SK, but I bought it all used or NOS. There is a local store that had tonnage of it NOS. A lot of it it the green metal boxes. I probably bought 12-15 sets, of all different kinds, over the last 30 years. The best deal was 1/4” metric deeps in a metal wedged shaped tray for under $20. I bought about 3 or 4 of those over the years.

I only bought a couple 1/4” drive 16mm sockets at retail.

I was not really interested in SK after Ideal bought them. They cheapened up the packaging and other reasons… it just wasn’t the same.

 

[Kscardsfan]

SK at least was visible 15 years ago. Ideal's ownership did them no favors. Ideal put almost zero money into the brand.... and what little R&D was done was way off base for the market. The bit ratchets were clunky.... the spark plug socket kit (with the special pouch) wasn't competitive... the X-frames were nice, but a lot of folks were turned off by the zero offset.... regardless of whether you loved/hated the LP90's, they were priced way too high for people buying SK tools. For an extra $20, you could buy the Snap-On 24" 1/2" drive ratchet.

-Ryan

The LP90 models were a deal when they hit the steals and deals section. But even then I bought them planning on trimming springs or having to lube them up before I could use them. If I had paid full retail or I was a professional, I’d have been beyond pissed about it.

 

[VolvoRyan]

The LP90 models were a deal when they hit the steals and deals section. But even then I bought them planning on trimming springs or having to lube them up before I could use them. If I had paid full retail or I was a professional, I’d have been beyond pissed about it.

Agreed. Either "Steals and Deals" or if you knew the "secret" discount codes are all that made the LP90's palatable. I do really like the stubby flex in 1/4" drive, but I'll almost always grab a round-head for 3/8" or 1/2" unless space is an issue. The 1/2" standard handle LP90 feels very unbalanced in the hand compared to the round head equivalent. I've been meaning to weigh them.

FWIW, the lube issue was more of an SK problem than a LP90 problem. Right after the Great Star buy was announced, I bought a brand new, traditional 40T 3/8" round head direct from SK for sentimental reasons. That also needed some Super Lube, as it had the same "grease" (or lack thereof) you'd find in an LP90. That new round head is still my go-to, despite sharing that drawer with an LP90, vintage round-head with a DT80, and a Matco 88 among others.

IMHO, SK's consumer market was smack-dab between Craftsman and the tool trucks. That market really disappeared with import tools, so the LP90's just were really ill-conceived in the "board room" stage. A 3/8" standard LP90 needed to retail at like $60-75, instead of only $10-15 shy of the Snap-On equivalent. Someone at SK/Ideal should have said "this is gonna cost too much".

-Ryan

 

[M635_Guy]

Y'all are an interesting bunch of cats. "MiUSA but owned by not USA? Sorry American workers, y'all are dead to me."

 

[gatewaysysop]

Y'all are an interesting bunch of cats. "MiUSA but owned by not USA? Sorry American workers, y'all are dead to me."

Must be eerily similar to how the customers feel about now, seeing as how the website that doesn't even have a reopening date anymore and basically gives the consumer the finger (as they've been doing for many months now). Sorry, no sympathy from me.