What's the torx and hex combination socket called?

[dukefx]

A few months ago I saw one and thought it was something new, but today out of the blue it struck me that our Stihl weed eater's greasing port uses such a bolt. I thought it was a use whichever tool you prefer type a few years ago, but my brain suddenly managed to add 1+1 today after remembering that special socket. The torx size is clearly too small (it gets stuck due to the heat and the torx bits usually bend or break) and the 1/2 hex likes to round with time (using a 12 point SAE wrench, the only SAE size I ever bought). I'm not talking about 5/16 or 10 mm sockets with torx bit inserts. I'm talking about a socket that also has a recessed torx driver inside. No matter how I search I can't find it. All I get is bit sockets.

Edit: here's a sample image:

 

[dnschmidt]

1) Why would Stihl, a German company, use a 1/2" headed bolt? Are you certain it's not Metric?
2) If a twelve point rounds off the bolt use a six point.
3) Go to Stihl and ask them what they use. They might have a special tool if it's that big of a deal.

 

[Old Man Roger]

There is a socket that has the torx bit in the middle? Like a security bit? Never seen one.

Are you sure it’s not meant to give you the option of using a socket or a torx bit?

 

[dukefx]

1) Why would Stihl, a German company, use a 1/2" headed bolt? Are you certain it's not Metric?
2) If a twelve point rounds off the bolt use a six point.
3) Go to Stihl and ask them what they use. They might have a special tool if it's that big of a deal.

1) Stihl uses a lot of SAE, a lot of their machines are assembled in the US. Yes, I'm 100% certain it's 1/2. Years ago I used a 13 mm and it rounded it off pretty quickly. I bought the 1/2 wrench after buying a replacement and it fits like a glove, but it's still a 12-point and the quality of the bolt is quite mediocre.
2) Don't have one, but I may buy a socket, and while I'm at it I might buy the better option (the one I'm looking for)
3) Their "special tool" is a T-handle with 2 sockets and a torx tip and it's ****.

There is a socket that has the torx bit in the middle? Like a security bit? Never seen one.

Are you sure it’s not meant to give you the option of using a socket or a torx bit?

Maybe it is, but I'm sure there's a socket that can drive both at the same time to ease the load on both.

 

[cmandp]

Is this the bolt? On the head gearbox? Yeah I've never seen a hex socket with a torx bit in the center. I'd see about getting a replacement bolt from the Stihl dealer and keep one as a spare. I'd also try to use a 6pt socket on it if it really is easy to round over the hex.



You could also use this as an opportunity to make a new type of socket with a torx bit inside. But I wouldn't bet that Stihl holds the timing of the torx broach to the hex to any particular orientation. Without that you can't have a special socket.

 

[dukefx]

1) Why would Stihl, a German company, use a 1/2" headed bolt? Are you certain it's not Metric?

12.78 mm with some dirt on it.

Is this the bolt? On the head gearbox? Yeah I've never seen a hex socket with a torx bit in the center. I'd see about getting a replacement bolt from the Stihl dealer and keep one as a spare. I'd also try to use a 6pt socket on it if it really is easy to round over the hex.



You could also use this as an opportunity to make a new type of socket with a torx bit inside. But I wouldn't bet that Stihl holds the timing of the torx broach to the hex to any particular orientation. Without that you can't have a special socket.

Yes, that's the one. I don't know about orientation, but the tip of the torx always seems to point towards the center (edit: more like left third) of the edge.

 

[kaymccampbell]

I know you don't like it, but I've used the tool that came with my weedwhacker head for years to loosen that plug. If the torx bit doesn't get it, the small socket does.

 

[cmandp]

I should clarify. You could make a special socket for your bolt no matter what. Although it may only be able to fit one way.

Orientation one bolt to the next might be a problem to mass produce a special socket. Sorry thinking too far out there lol.

That said I wouldn't worry about it until the wrench no longer works. And I'd see about having a backup bolt for when that happens.

 

[rancherbill]

A 12 point wrench is a poor choice.

I would use a 6 point socket. I only buy 6 point sockets today, 12 point whether wrench or socket increases the risk of rounding the fastener.

 

[cvairwerks]

Nothing special about it, as it's an either or piece of hardware.......I deal with plenty of fasteners that are Torx or hex heads. There are some places where using a Torx is way easier than using a socket.

 

[dnschmidt]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00SI7K9SU/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Bezos to the rescue.

 

[dukefx]

A 12 point wrench is a poor choice.

I would use a 6 point socket. I only buy 6 point sockets today, 12 point whether wrench or socket increases the risk of rounding the fastener.

That's what I always use, but as I said, it's SAE and I only have metric sockets and rarely ever need SAE. The lawn mowers do have some SAE bolts, but I let the neighbor handle the carburetor cleaning.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00SI7K9SU/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Bezos to the rescue.

Not over here. I live in Europe and they don't sell those nor do local manufacturers produce any 6 point box ends, sad really. The best I can do is smaller sized flare nut wrenches, I have some of those but no SAE.

I guess I'll throw some 1/2 socket into the basket the next time I do some shopping.

 

[Bubba Fett]

My guess is they used the Torx portion to assemble it, and knowing that it would be covered in crud, they made it a hex fastener as well.

 

[Garcky]

A few months ago I saw one and thought it was something new, but today out of the blue it struck me that our Stihl weed eater's greasing port uses such a bolt. I thought it was a use whichever tool you prefer type a few years ago, but my brain suddenly managed to add 1+1 today after remembering that special socket. The torx size is clearly too small (it gets stuck due to the heat and the torx bits usually bend or break) and the 1/2 hex likes to round with time (using a 12 point SAE wrench, the only SAE size I ever bought). I'm not talking about 5/16 or 10 mm sockets with torx bit inserts. I'm talking about a socket that also has a recessed torx driver inside. No matter how I search I can't find it. All I get is bit sockets.

Edit: here's a sample image:

Based on your photos, you will need to buy a six-point 1/2" socket or box end wrench. That should do it. Is there some kind of washer-like seal behind that plug? If so, get a new one, and don't overtighten. Looks like the materials that plug is made of are not top quality, and probably the hex is not exactly sized. that's what 6-point wrenches and sockets are for.

 

[Buckgnarly]

T27 Fits mine perfectly....I think it was T27...now I gotta go check......

The 1/2 does fit better than the 13 for the hex...that's with a 6pt Snap On socket.
My Snap On regular Torx 27 fits perfect, but the gold tapered version does not fit, too fat with the taper.
I have no idea how either of those could strip out that bolt, I take mine off at least yearly to grease. This is on a FS85 model.

 

[Old Man Roger]

I have a stihl wrench that has the torx on one end and a double sided socket on the other. I assume 3/4 on one side for the spark plug and the other is 1/2 inch. Or 19mm and 13mm. Stamped steel tool, so it's probably not exactly either..lol

 

[richfinn]

Use a 6 point 1/2" spanner and pass a torx bit through the ring end

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

I haven’t ever seen a tool like that. I believe it is made to use one or the other maybe you could email Stihl to confirm. GM has this design on their oil drain plugs and I haven’t seen any specific tools for them either everyone tells me it’s made to use one or the other. Maybe if you have issues with both types of tools hold the hex part with a wrench and put a torx in the middle and try to loosen both at the same time. Just buy an individual 1/2 socket if you don’t have one.

I’m just glad I learned what that bolt is for lol .

 

[NoahG]

Dremel a slot in it for a big fat slotted screwdriver.

 

[nbpt100]

I do not see a lot of those screws but I do see them now and then on small engines and ODPE. Also on my VW.

My VW has them on the oil pan and other places.

Just worked on a Briggs OHV Engine with some of those fasteners on it.

My guess is the Factory likes the Torx but they give the hex option for the owner. They have a flange too so no washer is needed. If one strips you have the other.

What is the big deal. If you dont have one style of wrench use the other. The hex gives you so many options. A socket, 12 pt or 6 pt. A box wrench, an open end wrench, an adjustable wrench. Don't have any tools? Well you need to start buying stuff.

Slotting with a dremel is real Red Neck, 3rd world mechanic stuff. The Dremel tool costs more than the proper wrench. There are situations where getting the Dremel out makes sense. I do not see it here. Plus if it is so tight and frozen in place, the sloted screw driver will not be any better than the Torx. You want to use the hex with a 6 pt. if it is not too rounded.

 

[tamaraw]

Dual drive fasteners are fairly common and can be chosen for a number of reasons, I'm sure you have seen Phillips/hex screws before. It doesn't necessarily mean that both should be used simultaneously. A few examples:

1. For situations where owners may not have many tools and they want to give more basic/accessible options
2. Ease of assembly on a production line
3. There is significant risk of fastener damage and they want a backup drive

 

[KnurledNut]

Pliers wrench FTW.

 

[M6erfan]

Those are called 'dual drive' fasteners and allow one to use either or, not both together.

 

[rancherbill]

That's what I always use, but as I said, it's SAE and I only have metric sockets and rarely ever need SAE. The lawn mowers do have some SAE bolts, but I let the neighbor handle the carburetor cleaning.

Not over here. I live in Europe and they don't sell those nor do local manufacturers produce any 6 point box ends, sad really. The best I can do is smaller sized flare nut wrenches, I have some of those but no SAE.

I guess I'll throw some 1/2 socket into the basket the next time I do some shopping.

yes they do. It's expensive but they do sell it

https://www.amazon.de/dp/B00SI7K9SU/

 

[dnschmidt]

Pliers wrench FTW.

Right again!

 

[dukefx]

What is the big deal. If you dont have one style of wrench use the other. The hex gives you so many options. A socket, 12 pt or 6 pt. A box wrench, an open end wrench, an adjustable wrench. Don't have any tools? Well you need to start buying stuff.

The torx can't handle the torque. This POS gets really hot and tightens the grease plug to the point where a torx will only twist or break. That disqualified "one". As for the hex: it's a short design, add a bit of dirt to it and whatever you put on it will will grab onto about 3 mm (see photo above with the box end wrench). I bought the wrench when I was buying car parts and that wrench was the one and only thing they had in size 1/2. I tend to avoid 12-points. I'll refrain from commenting on 3 of your suggestion and simply say no way, Jose!

I will either end up buying the socket I'm looking for or a regular socket. I'm not in a hurry. I have time till spring. Actually even more, this plug is still in good condition.

yes they do. It's expensive but they do sell it

https://www.amazon.de/dp/B00SI7K9SU/

In (Family Guy) Consuela's voice: Noooo... noooo. nooooooooo..... Mr. Bezos no ship home.
This item cannot be shipped to your selected delivery location. Please choose a different delivery location.

Pliers's wrenches

No, they are ok for plumbing, but they are between open ended and 12-point box wrenches. Maybe if you squeeze like a madman they can surpass the 12-point box end, but I sure wouldn't use it on such a low short lead. It'd just slip off to the side.

 

[Buckgnarly]

What Torx are you using that it snaps off or rounds? IVve had ZERO issues with that bolt on my FS85...maybe it's the tools and not the bolt?

 

[Tostal]

The torx can't handle the torque. This POS gets really hot and tightens the grease plug to the point where a torx will only twist or break. That disqualified "one". As for the hex: it's a short design, add a bit of dirt to it and whatever you put on it will will grab onto about 3 mm (see photo above with the box end wrench). -----------------------------

1) Maybe don't try removing the grease plug when hot? (the resultant expansion might be making the plug tighter due to expansion of the alloy casting especially against the underside of the plug flange).

2) You could try grinding the end of a socket to remove the internal chamfer/lead-in - this will allow the socket to engage with the full depth of the hex on the head of the grease plug and might avoid rounding it off. Or do the same grinding trick on a box end wrench (ring spanner).

In Europe :-
TengTools list 6 point sockets in size 1/2"AF - item number for 1/4 drive is M140116-C, 3/8 drive is M380116-C, unfortunately the 1/2 drive is a 12 point, but they do list a 6 point Impact socket in 1/2 drive - item number 920116.
Sealey Tools do 6 point sockets in 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2 inch drive but afaik, they don't supply individual sizes, just sets of sockets on a rail.

Hth,

~Tostal.

 

[cvairwerks]

We routinely torque T-20’s to 90 lb\in, without camming out or breaking tips. When we do tear them up, it’s due to idiots way over torquing on installation, or thread galling.

 

[dukefx]

What Torx are you using that it snaps off or rounds? IVve had ZERO issues with that bolt on my FS85...maybe it's the tools and not the bolt?

The Stihl supplied T handled twisted, a Dewalt bit twisted, another bit, no idea what brand, but my father has them in bulk, it's what they use for roofing at his company (should be good quality) also twisted, some other unbranded or unmarked bit broke. I'll take a photo tomorrow if I still have the Stihl tool (am at work right now and after I get home I'm going out with some old class mates).

1) Maybe don't try removing the grease plug when hot? (the resultant expansion might be making the plug tighter due to expansion of the alloy casting especially against the underside of the plug flange).

2) You could try grinding the end of a socket to remove the internal chamfer/lead-in - this will allow the socket to engage with the full depth of the hex on the head of the grease plug and might avoid rounding it off. Or do the same grinding trick on a box end wrench (ring spanner).

In Europe :-
TengTools list 6 point sockets in size 1/2"AF - item number for 1/4 drive is M140116-C, 3/8 drive is M380116-C, unfortunately the 1/2 drive is a 12 point, but they do list a 6 point Impact socket in 1/2 drive - item number 920116.
Sealey Tools do 6 point sockets in 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2 inch drive but afaik, they don't supply individual sizes, just sets of sockets on a rail.

Hth,

~Tostal.

1) Greasing is done before use, not after, so it's ice cold.
2) Not a bad idea, but too much work.

Sockets are no problem. I can get those from basically every manufacturer even in SAE sizes. What's not available is a 6 point box wrench, only 12-points.

We routinely torque T-20’s to 90 lb\in, without camming out or breaking tips. When we do tear them up, it’s due to idiots way over torquing on installation, or thread galling.

Can't remember the torx size, but it's clearly undersized. If you look at the sample photo you can see they could have used a much larger size. The "idiot" in this case is called heat. I could tighten the plug with my bare hands and I'd still happen.

 

[Buckgnarly]

Get a Snap On or other quality T27...But NOT the gold Snap On, they are oversize tapered meant for messed up heads.

 

[purplezr2]

My guess is they used the Torx portion to assemble it, and knowing that it would be covered in crud, they made it a hex fastener as well.

Assembly in general likes torx as they don't have to try to line them up, they just kind of seat themselves.

 

[purplezr2]

Get a Snap On or other quality T27...But NOT the gold Snap On, they are oversize tapered meant for messed up heads.

I don't know if that is try, I have gold and regular bit and I feel they fit the same. Have anything to back that statement up?

 

[Buckgnarly]

I don't know if that is try, I have gold and regular bit and I feel they fit the same. Have anything to back that statement up?

My test last night.
Can also take Snap On's word for it....
• Tapered profile provides better engagement on stubborn fasteners

Snap-on Store

shop.snapon.com

I used to think they were the same, then I started to try both on new/good and realized the difference.

 

[purplezr2]

My test last night.
Can also take Snap On's word for it....
• Tapered profile provides better engagement on stubborn fasteners

Snap-on Store

shop.snapon.com

I used to think they were the same, then I started to try both on new/good and realized the difference.

Learned something new today, Guessing most of my gold ones are worn out from being used on an impact.

 

[Buckgnarly]

Learned something new today, Guessing most of my gold ones are worn out from being used on an impact.

I loved my gold ones and thought they were the best... probably because everything up here is rusted out by the time I get to it!

 

[nbpt100]

This is better than the pliers wrench on a stubborn fastener.

Crescent 10" Locking Adjustable Dual Material Wrench - ACL10VS - - Amazon.com

Crescent 10" Locking Adjustable Dual Material Wrench - ACL10VS - - Amazon.com

www.amazon.com

Heck if it is so buggered up and does not want to come out put some vice grips on it and then replace it.

 

[KnurledNut]

@dukefx

If the struggle is this real with such a simple bolt, I question if the person is qualified to work on it...

 

[rlitman]

I've always just used a T27 screwdriver on mine. Your hand doesn't have the strength to twist off a T27 with a screwdriver handle, and if you really need to use a wrench on it, then get the proper wrench or socket. So long as you keep the threads greasy and only tighten it with the screwdriver, it won't get stuck.

But the RIGHT answer is to drill out that torx recess, tap it for a grease zerk, and never remove that stupid bolt again.

 

[nbpt100]

@dukefx

If the struggle is this real with such a simple bolt, I question if the person is qualified to work on it...

We are here to help. We have folks of all levels. Let the OP digest it a bit and I am sure he will find or buy the correct tool and be done with it.

In my limited experience with straight shaft trimmers is the grease is best remove and replaced. The bevel gears generate metal particles. I open mine up every few years and wipe out all of the old stuff and re pack it with Mobil 1 grease. Squirting some grease in there wont hurt but if you keep doing it, over filling may blow out the seals. Unless you have an expensive unit i would not worry too much about it. If they were filled with something like an SAE90 I would bet they would run cooler and be easier to drain and refil now and then. But they aren't.