Wheel Weights? Which to get? Also What to charge for work?

[Dugan]

Im picking up a Coats 650 tire balancer tonight to match my recently purchased 5060E tire machine. I do a lot of my own tires and this will save my back and wallet.

Which are the best wheel weights to get initially to mount truck tires and basic cars for people? Greg smith equipment which is local to me has a large assortment for cheap.

Also, if i happen to do a side job for some people, whats the normal charge for a mount and balance? I was thinking like 40-60$?

 

[GCncsuHD]

My tire guy charges $10 per tire mount/balance. Local chain stores charge between $15-20 around here per tire. Check out the prices of other shops in your area and base it off that.

 

[Dugan]

yea ive been to two sep shops, one was 10 for balance 5 for mounting (15) other was 10 each (20). I was thinking 10 total ea unless it was very special or large tires/wheels. My mounter can do 24" wheels and 50" tires haha.

 

[rslaback]

Back in my teaching days I got started by just buying a lot of used weights off ebay. They were pretty cheap, had an assortment of all sizes in both al and steel rim and shipped in a medium flat rate box. From there we just saved all the take offs and reused them.

You'll also want to pick up some tape style weights for use on nice rims.

 

[Dugan]

Yea I thought you were suppose to use stick ons with newer mag wheels. I cracked a rim on my newer honda and bought a new rim. The shop i brought it too hammered on a wheel weight, he also gripped the rim with the jaws of the machine from the inside instead of the outer lip.. I hate when people cant do things right.

 

[Dcampbell98xj]

There are so many different weights. Stick on weights are used more and more. Newer vehicles are coming with rims that no longer have a lip to attach weights to. Alloy and aluminum rims can take different weights depending on manufacturer. If you are doing larger tires 35" or larger tires they make balancing beads. Often more times then not larger then 35" will not balance properly or take 5+ ounces on either side of the rim. At my old shop we used Dill brand wheel weights and I liked them. You must also think about wheels with tpms sensors. Have you dealt with those? If not you will need to learn the proper way to dismount and mount tires without damaging them because replacement sensors are expensive. They also make service kits for the sensors which you would need multiple different styles or a connection at a parts store that sells them. There is a lot to think about and in my opinion I'd stay away from any vehicles that have tpms sensors just to keep overhead down and the chance of returns with issues.

 

[Streetbu]

Our shop gets $20/tire to mount & balance. We're one of the cheapest in the area. I wouldn't do it for less than $15 each personally. Also don't forget valve stems! Figure the cost of 4 stems, and about 8 ounces of weights on average into your price to figure your costs out. Weights can get pricey....

 

[DanInVA]

As for wheel weights, I would definitely recommend you look at stick on style weights. They usually come in strips and you can cut them apart by the 1/4 oz as needed. There are several advantages to these over clip on weights.

First, and most importantly, is simplicity. There are several types of clip on weights. Generally speaking, Asian cars will use FN style weights, European cars will use IAW style weights, American cars will use MC style weights, gm trucks have their own style weights, steel wheels will have their own style of weights, and then there are cars with no spot for clip on weights at all. That is a lot of different styles off weights to keep on hand, and they can pretty much all be replaced with adhesive weights.

Secondly, adhesive weights are pretty resistant to being "thrown" compared to clip on weights. Granted, the most common reason for a clip on weight to fly off is that the wrong style of weight was applied to a wheel, and the weight is unable to stay secure at high speeds. This is pretty much a non issue with stick on weights. As they are applied to the inside diameter of the wheel, centrifugal acceleration from the wheel turning holds them in place rather than sending them flying.

Lastly, the metal clips from clip on weights can damage the lip of the wheel and also allow moisture to enter the bead, causing corrosion to this area. On alloy wheels, this corrosion can eventually lead to a slow leak.

However, in my experience, clip on weights are your best bet for steel wheels. 3m makes some very nice adhesive wheel weights that come on a roll, and you cut to length as needed, but it is pricey, probably not worth the investment if you are only doing this on the side.

 

[brass89]

DanInVa gave some good advice. There are a ton of weights and styles. Figuring even a basic 'set' of FN's, MC's and steel wheels in .25, .5, .75, 1 and 1.25 - that's 5 different common weights in 3-4 'styles'. That's from a shop perspective, depends what you work on. If it's mostly yourself and your buddies, retail will require a wider variety.

I can't agree entirely, my experience has been if you set the weight and use the proper weight for the application, clip on's do well. You have to pay attention to what you're doing. A square faced rim requires a matching profile weight clip, if you try to attach a rounded style clip to a square faced rim or vice versa it won't grab well. Some are a pain and if you over beat them on it will stretch the clip. Toss it and get a new weight.

Stick on's can be useful for aluminum wheels but even cleaning the inside of the rim it can be a pia. Some stick well others not so much and almost fall off. Also requires paying attention to the balancer and wheel type so you know if you're adhering a stick on to the inner portion with a clip on outside, stick-on on the inner and outer or a center balance method with a stick-on in the center of the rim etc. Some aluminum's just don't allow for any form of clip on.

I'm not sure what you define as 'truck' or 'basic' car. If you mean light trucks (f-150's, rangers, ram 1500-2500, silverado's etc) and passenger cars (mix of foreign and domestic, nothing fancy like top end sports cars).. it also depends on your area. In my area, the shop I worked for (west st louis) did m&b for around 24.95. The price fluctuated, was often reduced if all 4 were being done, if it was part of a tire purchase through the shop etc. Doing this on the side, people tend to be cheaper not more expensive than retail shops. It was more of a service than a money maker. A tire patch (not plug) was pretty pricey at $31.95 (in comparison to other local shops) - that was to dismount, buff, patch, remount and spin balance. It was way cheaper in more rural areas. For instance a local small town guy with a farm shop only charged $10 for a patch but not sure if he balanced them or not.

The only places I saw charging high prices ($75-80 a tire) were shops which had specialty no touch mounting equipment and the capacity to do larger low profile rims like the 24's found on some dodge ram's and custom wheels.

Semi's would be a whole different story and no clue what they run.

This isn't meant as a jab or anything, but since I don't know the experience level of the op I thought I'd throw this in - unless you know the vehicle, please don't get in the habit of making things 'faster' by taking a pair of dykes and simply snipping off the valve stems to deflate the tire(s) before a swap/m&b. Some valve stems with pressure sensors are a metal stem with a bolt style rather than simple pull through, but some aren't. Some look just like a standard rubber valve stem. Wheel pressure sensors are pricey to replace. Also need to be careful during mounts and dismounts to be sure the spoon is in the right place or it'll grab that sensor and snap it right off (or cause the tension of the tire inside the bead to grab it as it stretches the tire off). Learned the hard way on the boss's denali and $100 for a new wheel sensor.

Nice machines, best of luck to you. Just my .02 worth hope it helps.

 

[rlitman]

Online, the best source for an "assortment" is patchboy.com.
Otherwise, you're buying boxes of each weight size.
As mentioned above, different rims require different types of weights.
Note that weights meant for domestic vehicles (like the MC I use on my Jeep) are sized in quarters of an ounce increments, while weights meant for imports (like the IAW I use for my Subaru) are sized in 5 gram increments. So if you deal with both, either learn how to switch your machine between metric and imperial, or remember that 1oz = 28g.
My stickons are in 7g increments, so four of them equals 1oz.

I just saw on patchboy this:

That looks real handy if you don't know what the rim profile is.

Lately, some rims are being made to not take clip on weights at all, and some only take weights on the inside. If they're designed to use stick on weights, there will be a "flat" circular ring on the inside where the stickons are meant to go.
You will need a box of stickon weights, regardless of what type of clip on weights you buy.

If a rim will take a clip on weight on the inside, use the clip on, don't use stickons. On the outside, if you don't like the look of a clip on, you can fudge it with a stickon (and even split groups of stickons to hide them behind spokes), but you will need to fool the computer by inputting the width between the two weight circles, and not the actual rim width then.

Buy coated weights. Uncoated weights will corrode and damage the rim's paint.

The KD wheel weight tool is the best available. Better than the Snap On.

 

[Dugan]

Thanks rlitman.

Im not a guy to take shortcuts. I dont clip valve stems unless its a mud truck and i know im replacing them anyway. (Those wheels usually arent balanced because they dont see roads).

But with all the newer styles ive made sure to break the bead in the proper areas and such.

Ill def be ordering that gauge tool. I still have to calibrate my machine, But that requires sourcing a 14" wheel and tire.

Thanks for the links to sites to get the weights, hopefully ill be ordering some soon. The first vehicle ill have to do is a 2003 toyota pickup.

I think my prices will be set to 10$/per m&b unless its a specialty ill charge a few extra for balance. I just hope I can offset the price of the weights.

 

[Dugan]

patchboy has a nice kit of all sizes and weights for 167$. This might actually be worth the investment.

 

[rlitman]

I still have to calibrate my machine, But that requires sourcing a 14" wheel and tire.

Meh. Calibration is really not important.

Here's the dirty secret.
If the machine says you wheel is balanced, it is balanced. Period. That is not dependent on calibration.

If perfectly calibrated, you spin the wheel, add the exact amount of weights in the places requested, and when you spin it again, it should read all zeros.

If out of calibration, it may ask for more weight on the second spin, though there are other reasons this may happen too. Being out of calibration is why you'll see many wheels balanced by morons who put a string of adjacent weights on a rim, or when you see weights on opposite sides of a rim.
But if the operator knows what's going on, it is easy to compensate for.

 

[rlitman]

I think my prices will be set to 10$/per m&b unless its a specialty ill charge a few extra for balance. I just hope I can offset the price of the weights.

When I balance my own vehicles, I save the clip on weights I pull off, and re-use them, as the coated weights last for years. You really cannot do that with a customer's wheels.

The price per pound of an assortment is several times the price per pound of standard boxes of weights, but that's a lot of inventory to keep around for an occasional job.

Finally, there is a HUGE liability in any business that re-mounts wheels on cars. That is just one reason I don't balance wheels for profit myself.
Please be sure your insurance protects you, and have a lug-nut torque chart hung on the wall.

 

[Top_Fuel]

Please be sure your insurance protects you, and have a lug-nut torque chart hung on the wall.

And watch out for "high-maintenance" owners with specialty vehicles...

Finish Damaged When Shop Removed Wheel Weights

 

[Dugan]

Yea I do this all on the side between building my trucks and hotrods. Its mostly word of mouth, i dont advertise. I select those i will do work for and those I wont. I do not work for high maintenance people, unless its brake work or soemthing easy with no possible recurve.

The balancer will be more or less for myself and local friends and their friends. I would use new weights for others, but for mine ill reuse.

Ive been doing this on the side for about 7 years now. I just moved down to DE so im trying to build up a clientele.

Thanks for the input all.

 

[ltusler]

I charge a 12 pack per wheel.

 

[Dugan]

I charge a 12 pack per wheel.

Thats actually more than 10$ if you dont drink water

I have a kegerator in the shop haha.

 

[Leadberry]

When I worked at a tire shop, application charts were invaluable as a quick reference. At home, you can get by with a wheel gauge, but you can also print out one of these and stick it up on the wall:

www.plombco.com/files/file/Application Chart_2014_web.pdf

FYI, they don't show it on the chart, but passenger car steel wheels will always take P weights. While AW weights aren't used on new cars anymore, many American aftermarket alloy wheels still use them.

Edit: I prefer this style of rim gauge to the oblong one pictured above:

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/C...eel-Weight-Rim-Gauge/_/R-NWW200001_0006406936

 

[Dugan]

Where can i find the 4 OZ weight to calibrate this machine? I also have to source a 14" tire and wheel.

 

[75gmck25]

I have another suggestion for items to have in stock - both .453" or .625" diameter valve stems, and valve stems that are rated for 10 ply rating truck tires (usually allow pressures up to 80 psi).

I have a fairly common vehicle, an old GMC 3/4 ton HD 4x4 with 8 bolt steel wheels, but the last time I bought tires from a Firestone dealer they did not have the right valve stems in stock so they did not replace them. I think they were just lazy, but they told me their local supplier did not have them in stock. At the time I was living in Texas where every other vehicle is a 3/4 ton or 1 ton pickup, but the maybe new ones don't have the old style steel wheels.

Bruce

 

[Dugan]

I have two boxes of 50 count valve stems of each Sir from when I did mud tires by hand.

 

[Jbullfrog]

I got an assortment and rack with bins when I started balancing wheels. So Farr I have only used the MC style and lots of 3m adhesive weights. I see Ford, Dodge, and GMC vehicles mostly with aluminum wheels. $300 up front for the assortment was well worth having the right weights on hand.

 

[Dugan]

https://scontent-a-lga.**.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10885026_10152658744145967_6918576532871061761_n.jpg?oh=6fa692ee0013d946820458435915f270&oe=553649CA

Guy on the internet had an 8lb box of wheel weights for 20$ shipped.

I bought a box, and asked if could throw in some 4oz weights. I got a few of them haha.

I dont know what type of wheel they fit, none of the codes match any other weights.

Ill make them work for calibration.

 

[Nessal]

You may always want to factor in your market niche. Are you catering to auto enthusiasts or your average joe? Here in the bay area, most big chain shops charge $15-$20 per wheel to mount and balance. The specialty shops charge $110-$140 to do all four. Why the difference? It's because those shops balance down to the gram and not ounce and they make sure that everything is absolutely perfect. Also they take care to not royally screw up your wheels. Ask me how I know.

 

[Danver]

Not too long ago I had someone ask me if I still had a tire machine and if I fixed flats for other people (He had a nail in one of his tires). I said no but I gave him the tire machine and told him to fix it himself. Now I am free of that big old Coats monster and have more free space in my small shop. I also don't have to fight with tires any more.

It was nice to have when I needed it but in reality I wasn't using it as much as I had in the past so it was time for it to go.

 

[Dugan]

Bought a 14" wheel and tire today for use of calibrating my machine.... Dont ya ******* know the wheel was bent to hell.....ugh 30$ wasted.


I put it on the machine and was about to get it to 0 0, but I dont think this would be the best thing to calibrate with.