When are inexpensive tools "good enough"?

[dscheidt]

Yeah you hand the cashier money and she lets you leave with HF tools.

Apparently there's no such requirement at Home Depot. You simply fill a cart and walk out with it.

With youtubers, my presumption is that if they're mentioning the brand of the thing, they're being paid to do so. And he makes a big point of mentioning all the things he gets from HF....

 

[nadogail]

Is there really any useful difference between a Menards screwdriver and a Snapon screwdriver? Other than bragging rights?

Better Quality tools generally are made with more comfortable handles and steel blades that maintain their ability to fit the head of the screw.

 

[theoldwizard1]

This has nothing to do with need, just aesthetics. Which is most of what these threads are about.

I have WANTED long DBE metric wrenches for over 15 years. I don't NEED them.

 

[dr_clyde]

I generally buy the best quality thing I can afford, whether it be tools, clothes, cars, toys, food, whatever. I don’t believe in buying lower quality goods just to save money. I’d rather go without in most cases than buy something inferior.

The key here is what I can afford. Most of my hand tools are Snap-on, as I’ve been able to afford them my whole career and I use them most every day. Some tools are HF, as I cannot justify or afford a tool for one or two times a year. My 1” drive sockets for example. I’ve used the set ONCE. I billed the whole cost of the sockets to the job and now they sit waiting for a future job. A couple hundred bucks from HF or a few thousand from SO?

The tools I use every day? The best I can get my hands on.

If a job is super critical or important that it can justify a top end tool, no problem. I’ve spent 30k on a machine for ONE job. I needed that machine to do the job, the cost of the machine was built into my quote, so it makes no sense to cut corners on the machine that is a required component for the jobs success.

 

[Etchase]

There is a torque test video indicating Snap-on line wrenches are good, but so are MAC and Proto. Mac actually sorta won the competition with their criteria. Snap on got second with extra points for being too tight in my opinion, and the measurement reflects my real life hammer-it-on experience. .003” clearance isn’t clearance. I use Proto in SAE and metric, unless I’m trying out my $12 3 piece set from SATA. Not bad.

 

[finn]

I generally pretend the open end doesn't exist on every single one of my wrenches.

I honestly don’t remember the last time I used an open end wrench… I know I use them sometimes, but it’s certainly not very frequently.

 

[AEAdam]

I generally pretend the open end doesn't exist on every single one of my wrenches.

I used my 11nm FD+ open end to crack the bleeders on that brake job Friday. I thought that was risky. I have line wrenches and specialty bleeder wrenches. But I went for it because I was too lazy to walk inside for a special wrench.

I’m continually impressed by FD+. I think if you have great wrenches you can get away with using open ends for serious work. TTC’s open end video was enlightening. I just didn’t like their scoring. Recommend looking at clearance and torque/thickness. Wright Grip had more clearance and more thickness. I want the thinnest tightest open end I can get.

 

[dchawk81]

To be fair, I used a 10mm open end on the air cleaner housing bolt of my push mower because I was too lazy to grab a socket and ratchet and couldn't get the box end on.

But that was like 2 millimeter grams of torque.

And it was a Snap-on. So it was fine. All hell would have broke loose if it was a Pittsburgh or Craftsman or some other garbage like Matco.

 

[Coach James]

.....

So, where do you draw the line? What details have you experienced that would help GJ members?

If I see a tool has a manufacturing defect that affects it use or is already damaged, i would not buy it. If the price is absurdly low, as in 10 new combo wrenches for $3, I would not buy. If I know multiple people had problems with a specific tool, I would not buy. If it was in the bargain bin at the store, I would not buy, unless I was desperate and that was the only source.

One of my friends maintains his cars , including rebuilding engines, using what some consider junk tools. Most are the old Sears brand, not Craftsman, but the lower Sears line. One of my students got an afterschool/weekend job at a shop that specialized in BMWs. His wrenches, sockets and ratchets were Chinese made Stanley, which many consider "junk". He told me they were what he could afford when he started, did what he needed them to do and made him a lot of money. My point being, unless it is something specific to the tool or a meaningful sample size, I'm not sure there is a clear way to determine where to draw the line.

Coach

 

[ecotec]

I started with 1990’s Craftsman. They sold sets, on sale, very cheap… stupid cheap.

I used the sockets, ratchets, raised panel wrenches, dog bone ratcheting wrenches… for years at work.

I was ripping anvils off the 3/8” ratchets once or twice a year. I found a 3/8” SK 45170… and I never broke another ratchet.

The dog bone ratcheting wrenches were great… in 1994 they were awesome… but eventually the early Gearwrenches came out. The flat non-reversible ones… they were so much better… and I have much better ones now, but I still use the Gearwrench at work… our tools are only insured for a pre- negotiated dollar amount which is less than my work tools would cost to replace.

I replaced the Allen keys with Elkind and Bondhus folding sets. They are easier for me to keep track of.

If I didn’t find out about better tools, I would have been fine with them forever. But I did… and I would not want to go back to them.

Since I started working, entry level price tools have gotten infinitely better. There are plenty of mechanics with Pittsburgh Pro impact sockets, ratchets and other Harbor Freight tools that as totally functional tools. Remember the cheap Swiss cheese tools of the eighties?

 

[AEAdam]

Remember the cheap Swiss cheese tools of the eighties?

Boy, do I. My first car was a Honda Civic. Nice car, right? Not back then it wasn’t. It was a 1976. Had 65000 miles and was pretty much shot. Rust everywhere, components failing, bad wiring.

It was metric. We had craftsman tools, but only imperial sizes. My Dad bought a Taiwan metric socket set. Nice tools, right? Not back then they weren’t. I think he bought the set at the discount grocery store (Jewel -T?). Came in a paper thin blue metal box. Inside, the tools were held in a black molded plastic tray as thin as those in a box of chocolates.

The sockets were rusted within a year where the chrome was peeling. The ratchet was a round head model with a knurled handle so sharp it would hurt your hand. I think that was by design because it limited the amount of torque you could apply.

GJ readers would have loved it because it had no skips! Seriously it was a dreadful, shameful set of tools.

I think it looked like this! Amazing people have this stuff.

 

[ecotec]

Boy, do I. My first car was a Honda Civic. Nice car, right? Not back then it wasn’t. It was a 1976. Had 65000 miles and was pretty much shot. Rust everywhere, components failing, bad wiring.

It was metric. We had craftsman tools, but only imperial sizes. My Dad bought a Taiwan metric socket set. Nice tools, right? Not back then they weren’t. I think he bought the set at the discount grocery store (Jewel -T?). Came in a paper then stamped, blue metal box. Inside, the tools were held in a black molded plastic tray like those in a box of chocolates. Very thin and of course cracked.

The sockets were rusted within a year where the chrome was peeling. The ratchet was a round head model with a knurled handle so sharp it would hurt your hand. I think that was by design because it limited the amount of torque you could apply.

GJ readers would have loved it because it had no skips! Seriously it was a dreadful, shameful set of tools.

I still have an unbranded 5.5mm in one of my sets… that has somehow survived since the 80’s. I have had it so long that I doubt that it will ever break under normal use. Realistically, how much can you abuse a 5.5mm?

All the other sockets, from that set, broke or disappeared ages ago. It’s a survivor. I don’t remember where I even got the set… maybe Kresge’s. I want to say that the set was made in Japan.

 

[gtae07]

Most of my tools are (90s) Craftsman or HF, with a little bit of Kobalt, Porter Cable, Dewalt, etc. sprinkled in. I've never had problems breaking tools or wearing them out unless they were the super bargain cheap ones that I knew were expendable. But then, I don't use them hard or nearly as often as a professional would. They do what I need them to do without fuss.

 

[MovingAlong]

Boy, do I. My first car was a Honda Civic. Nice car, right? Not back then it wasn’t. It was a 1976. Had 65000 miles and was pretty much shot. Rust everywhere, components failing, bad wiring.

It was metric. We had craftsman tools, but only imperial sizes. My Dad bought a Taiwan metric socket set. Nice tools, right? Not back then they weren’t. I think he bought the set at the discount grocery store (Jewel -T?). Came in a paper thin blue metal box. Inside, the tools were held in a black molded plastic tray as thin as those in a box of chocolates.

The sockets were rusted within a year where the chrome was peeling. The ratchet was a round head model with a knurled handle so sharp it would hurt your hand. I think that was by design because it limited the amount of torque you could apply.

GJ readers would have loved it because it had no skips! Seriously it was a dreadful, shameful set of tools.

I think it looked like this! Amazing people have this stuff.

Shoot, 40 yrs ago I did a lot of work with those tools! Picked up a set for $5 at Checkers or a place like that.. Starters, alternators, power steering pumps, carbs, shocks, plugs, fluid changes.. when you're a broke kid you figure out how to get things done with what you have. Didn't sit around comparing tool brand names - there were mountains waiting to be tackled and the truck needed to run! Miss those days, back when I knew everything...

 

[rust in the eye]

Someone else here once offered some sage advice to a fellow inquiring about buying his first set of mechanic's tools. He was wondering about buying from the tool truck.
One response was among the best wisdom I've seen offered here, it went some thing like: "Buy what you can well afford then if/when it breaks replace with better."

 

[American Locomotive]

In general, I purchase a cheap tool first. If the tool is useful, I use it frequently, but maybe doesn't work the best and causes me grief - I will purchase something better. It's why I have German-made Bessey aviation snips. It's why I have Malco Eaglegrips, It's why I have Wright wrenches, it's why I have Keiba pliers and side cutters ...but it's also why I have a HF caliper and Craftsman sockets. I was greatly let down by the cheap examples of snips, vise-grips, wrenches and pliers - so I bought premium versions. On the other hand, my Craftsman sockets have yet to cause me grief, and I don't use the caliper enough to matter.

As far as Snap-On being the best. Well... Snap-On makes very high quality tools, but they charge an exorbitant premium for them. For example, companies like Wright Tool have proven they can make a wrench that's every bit as good (if not better) than Snap-On's most premium wrenches for literally half the price.

...and as far as resale goes: does anyone actually care about tool resale value? Like good grief. For a professional mechanic that's retiring and selling all of their tools, you're talking what? A difference in sale price of $10,000 vs $4,000? ...on tools that made you close to $2,000,000 in total income over your 30 year career. It's really insignificant.

For the average homeowner, who might have maybe $1000-2000 worth of hand tools, you're talking about such a marginal difference in value between "premium" and "cheap" tools, at the end of your life. Who cares? I won't need that cash when I'm in the ground.

 

[RedneckWelder]

Someone else here once offered some sage advice to a fellow inquiring about buying his first set of mechanic's tools. He was wondering about buying from the tool truck.
One response was among the best wisdom I've seen offered here, it went some thing like: "Buy what you can well afford then if/when it breaks replace with better."

The other advantage of buying cheaper now and better later if and when you want to is the cheaper tools become the modify for special jobs tools.

 

[rust in the eye]

The other advantage of buying cheaper now and better later if and when you want to is the cheaper tools become the modify for special jobs tools.

I call those "story wrenches"

 

[LOW1]

The other advantage of buying cheaper now and better later if and when you want to is the cheaper tools become the modify for special jobs tools.

Another factor is overall budget and quantity of tools needed/wanted. Would you rather have a very small initial amount of very high quality tools or a larger number of medium quality tools?

 

[Citation]

Another factor is overall budget and quantity of tools needed/wanted. Would you rather have a very small initial amount of very high quality tools or a larger number of medium quality tools?

The first time I pulled a head of a car on my own (ie without access to my father's tools) I was using a $100 Cman ratchet set and perhaps $30 worth of Cman wrenches. If I were to go with Snapon (ie my dad's tools) the same $130 likely wouldn't have been enough for the wrenches I used.

So, yeah I would say I generally prefer a large number of medium quality tools.

 

[dchawk81]

The first time I pulled a head of a car on my own (ie without access to my father's tools) I was using a $100 Cman ratchet set and perhaps $30 worth of Cman wrenches. If I were to go with Snapon (ie my dad's tools) the same $130 likely wouldn't have been enough for the wrenches I used.

So, yeah I would say I generally prefer a large number of medium quality tools.

I agree. My primary socket set is one of those big 100+ piece "mechanics" sets sold at Lowes under the Kobalt name. I've had it for at least a dozen years. I probably paid less than 100 bucks for it back then.

I've had no desire to upgrade it, but I've had to expand beyond it.

Unless the sockets start breaking left and right I don't see the point in replacing just for replacements sake.

 

[428PI]

The ratchet was a round head model with a knurled handle so sharp it would hurt your hand.

I had a set like this. I cut the ratchet handle in half so I had a short quick ratchet that Snap On was pushing in the late 70s. Used it a lot. There was no way I was going to pay Snap On prices for a short ratchet that never saw any stress.

 

[cherokee]

But truck branded tools do typically hold a higher resale value.

And............

Big deal, so after I am dirt the kid can sell it at a garage sale for $4 instead of $2?

I don't sell tools, they are with me till I die, lose them or bust.

 

[T45]

Most guys I know have various grades of tool in different settings...pro tools in the shop, cheaper tools in travel box, lighter/simpler tools in travel kits, yet again different tools in the house-hold kits, different tools again in the "loan it to a friend kit", and probably different tools again in the "loan it to a stranger" kit.

What's important typically is the fit of the tool into the overall workflow of the job and the process/process management of the end user. Risk to the work, risk relating to inventory control, cost involving acquisition of new tools, etc all come into play. Not every task is break-even economiscs with every set of tools....

 

[Citation]

The resale argument does matter in some cases but when thinking about hand tools I've never used it. I guess I've never purchased hand tools I expected to sell. For example, a set of $300 Snapon wrenches vs a $40 set of Cman wrenches. Let's assume the Snapon holds 2/3rds of it's value while the Cman holds 0%. That means the total cost of the Cman wrenches is $40 while the Snapons still cost me $100. If the Cman wrench is sufficient for the job then I'm still ahead using the cheaper wrench.

 

[chris142]

Impact sockets. You can buy a quality set for under $50.

 

[Blind1]

Inexpensive tools are good enough for everything I do.

 

[cherokee]

Impact sockets. You can buy a quality set for under $50.

Impact sockets, what is that?

I am a real rebel, a real bad boy use chrome on power tools....be the rebel.

 

[rockettauto]

Is there really any useful difference between a Menards screwdriver and a Snapon screwdriver? Other than bragging rights?

Yes, although you don't really have to go that far of a spread. You can feel the huge difference in grip a quality screwdriver has....provided you're actually correctly matching the driver and fastener. Those nice sharp edges stay that way a lot longer too.

 

[rust in the eye]

Impact sockets, what is that?

I am a real rebel, a real bad boy use chrome on power tools....be the rebel.

Long ago I used a chrome Popular Mechanics (WalMart) deep socket on an impact for removing wheel nuts. It held up for a long time. ALL of the plating had been rattled off before it finally broke.
After finally buying some proper impact sockets I noted how much easier it was for my gun to remove these nuts.
Impact sockets are harder steel that absorbs less of the applied impacting force. It then made sense why all the plating had come off of the old Wal-Mart socket, it was flexing. Since this epiphany I've probably saved a lot of wear and tear on my impact guns.

 

[rockettauto]

I have yet to actually use a caliper spreader except in the case of very high end calipers where the pretty finish matters.

I just spread them on the car with a small prybar , pulling the assembly forward in it's pins before I ever take them off.

Never understood the point really, most shops had one rusting away in a hidden drawer somewhere where nobody sees it but once every ten years.

 

[cherokee]

Long ago I used a chrome Popular Mechanics (WalMart) deep socket on an impact for removing wheel nuts. It held up for a long time. ALL of the plating had been rattled off before it finally broke.
After finally buying some proper impact sockets I noted how much easier it was for my gun to remove these nuts.
Impact sockets are harder steel that absorbs less of the applied impacting force. It then made sense why all the plating had come off of the old Wal-Mart socket, it was flexing. Since this epiphany I've probably saved a lot of wear and tear on my impact guns.

Wear and tear?

I bought my impact roughly in 1984. I still have it today. I turned wrenches for the first 5 years, and after that it got "hobby" use.

I have not used it in a while because well.....electric is just so much more easy. Every once and a while I will bust it out and drag an air hose halfway across the shop just to hear that sound. That sound, and that of air ratchets are just the sounds that should come from a shop. Sadly that is long gone now.

Ok now get off my lawn.

 

[jmdirk]

Cheap (or cheaper) tools are good enough when the user decides that the quality and performance are sufficient for their own needs and can't justify to themselves the price of higher cost tools.

Can I afford some higher end tools compared to what I have, sure. But nothing I have seen yet has convinced me to pay more. There have been cases where I've seen people raving about how good a particular brand or tool is. I'll use Knipex as an example. It didn't take long to learn how much better a set of cobra pliers are compared to and adjustable wrench or Channelocks etc. I'll reach for those long before even a set of vice grips.

I can't imagine paying several hundred for a set of SnapOn sockets, ratchets or wrenches and having it be sooo much better than the Mastercraft ones I've been using for 2+ decades. Maybe if I got the opportunity to use them I might change my mind, but it's not an experiment that I'm willing to pay for.

But it's all subjective. We wall make our own decisions with regards to the cost vs benefit of said tools.

As for the resale argument. I don't care for a vast majority of things. There might be a few bigger tools that I decide to buy and resell rather than rent, but that's pretty rare. Rarer still is me actually following through with the sale of said tool after the primary job is completed. But that's what I tell myself at the beginning to justify the purchase

 

[dscheidt]

The resale argument does matter in some cases but when thinking about hand tools I've never used it. I guess I've never purchased hand tools I expected to sell. For example, a set of $300 Snapon wrenches vs a $40 set of Cman wrenches. Let's assume the Snapon holds 2/3rds of it's value while the Cman holds 0%. That means the total cost of the Cman wrenches is $40 while the Snapons still cost me $100. If the Cman wrench is sufficient for the job then I'm still ahead using the cheaper wrenc

I've bought(usually used) a fair amount of construction tools (a jackhammer, drywall lift, etc) with the plan of selling them after I'm done with them. I have no plans to need them again, so I'd rent them, but I need them longer than that makes sense. So buy used, do the project w/o the pressure of a rental clock, and sell when done. I hate dealing with random people, so I sell cheap, so they're gone fast, but if you're careful and patient, you can probably come out ahead, at least not counting time.

 

[AEAdam]

Impact sockets are harder steel that absorbs less of the applied impacting force. It then made sense why all the plating had come off of the old Wal-Mart socket, it was flexing. Since this epiphany I've probably saved a lot of wear and tear on my impact guns.

No. Opposite. Impact sockets are typically softer than normal. In your case, a Walmart socket could have been soft. So you may be correct. But generally impacts are tougher, more ductile, more like springs.

Have to think about wear on your gun. Off the top of my head, a hard socket would wear the square anvil drive.

 

[kaymccampbell]

I've got the HF Caliper compressor and e-brake twiddler. It's fine for the home gamer. Actually, it'd be fine for daily shop use. It's definitely not as pretty as the SO, but it works.

I own plenty of non-truck tools. They worked just fine up against the boys with $20K tool habits. 50 years later, they still work fine.

 

[fatfillup]

Didn't read every response but I have been around mechanics my entire adult life and buy and sell a lot of used tools out of my tool store.

Pros should buy the best tools, especially if it is high use. DIYer's can certainly get by with less expensive tools, especially if its limited use.

Quality tools are a pleasure to use and if you can afford them for limited use, go for it.

Just about without exception, my repeat heavy use customers come in looking for Snap on. Note, I deal with truck and equipment mechanics more then auto techs. Lots of farmers also.

Personally, I have used a mix of cheaper to top end tools and the older I get, the more I appreciate the top end tools. I do use them a bit in my business and I play in the home shop regularly.

I don't carry a lot of high end tools on my serevice truck because I tend to lose them while the cheap **** stays around

I believe it was a former member here, Mickey O whose signature line was "Cheap tools are for chumps" I believe that was used in Plomb tools advertising but not positive. There is some truth there

 

[mikedodge]

I have better socket sets and wrenches but when it comes to anything special that rarely gets used it's Princess Auto or Amazon. Usually the better stuff is about the same quality unless you go expensive.

Lisle is a decent brand and their stuff is usually pretty good. My caliper spreader consists of a big screw driver and a C clamp.

 

[Blackmarket]

Is there really any useful difference between a Menards screwdriver and a Snapon screwdriver? Other than bragging rights?

Use that Menards screwdriver hard for say, 5 yrs. Same thing with the Snap On. Doubt the Menards screwdriver is good for anything after that. Snap On will continue another 20 yrs.

I’m not a Snap On nuthugger. But, there is a difference in quality for the usage. You get what you pay for.

 

[jmdirk]

I've bought(usually used) a fair amount of construction tools (a jackhammer, drywall lift, etc) with the plan of selling them after I'm done with them. I have no plans to need them again, so I'd rent them, but I need them longer than that makes sense. So buy used, do the project w/o the pressure of a rental clock, and sell when done. I hate dealing with random people, so I sell cheap, so they're gone fast, but if you're careful and patient, you can probably come out ahead, at least not counting time.

that sounds like me. Except for the selling it after part. That's what I tell myself when I buy it. But usually it just ends up stored somewhere. Again, like you, I hate dealing with random people, so I avoid listing it for sale.