When did Snap-On start making the 30 tooth ratchets?
- Thread starter Ralf11
- Start date
measuredtwice
Well-known member
Your title and post are different questions.
The F830 was not Snap-On's 1st 30 tooth ratchet so "When did Snap-On start making the 30 tooth ratchets?" is not the same question as "when Snapon started making the 8-series ratchets, like the F830".
For example, the F-71-D from the 1960s had 30 teeth.
KnurledNut
Well-known member
There have been 30t ferrets since like 1948.
JSCraftsman
Well-known member
To add alittle more info. To my best knowledge so far the 1947 Snap-On F-71 (pre sub letter) did exist (I have one dated 1947). It was also apparently pre catalog because the F-71 wasn't in a catalog until 1948? However, I still am unclear as to it's original tooth count. So far the information I have come across is mostly only mere assumptions, not actual fact, points to the fact that the very first F-71 model was only a 20 tooth, not 30. I have interestingly found that even some of the later 1948 F-71-A's still possessed the 20 tooth internals as well. My guess is that these were leftover legacy parts which were used up until these parts were exhausted. And then starting in the later 1948 models, then carrying over to the 1949 F-71-A model's, these sported a 40 tooth gear with a 3 tooth per side engagement pawl. The 1948 PF-71 industrial also had the 40 tooth as well. Now whether or not they were all 40 tooth, is unclear. All the various F-71's I have purchased, and I have purchased quite a few now, most of them had the 30 tooth gear, which would ultimately become the norm for the following F-71 models going forward. I'm guessing that S-O discontinued the 40 tooth mechanism due to it's unreliability in being problematic to failure? Hence this was why the going forward tooth count was cut down to a mere 30 tooth. I try to look for these with their original internals still intact, and only a few had the 20 tooth gear with a very uniquely rare one tooth per side engagement pawl. So from what I have learned so far is that the various F-71 model rats ranged in tooth counts from 20 to 40. But as I stated, all the information I have found is assumptions and suppositions. I am still on the hunt for other variations of the F-71 (non military style like the F-71-M, F-71-N, FV71...etc). As of 10/17/23 I am proud to say, I have finally tracked down a Canadian made 1951 F-71-C. I can't wait to receive it, as I'm still waiting for it to come, and I also can't wait to tear into it to see what it's got inside. But I'm getting too far off the original topic. Well, that's my input, hopefully I added something to everybody's knowledge base.
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JSCraftsman
Well-known member
As of this point 2/25/23, I have now added two more 20 tooth F-71's to my collection. One of them actually came in a F-71-C model...(I have now found two 1950's F-71-C's with the 20 tooth internals inside). I don't believe that these are the original internals for these F-71-C's. I have also added three or four more 40 tooth models...including another PF-71 ratchet to the collection as well. I have seen a Canadian F-71 with the 20 tooth mechanism, though I don't have any....yet. But, among the countless 30 tooth models I have, these are the most common, ranging from 1947 to 1976 date codes. F-71 (first model, no sub letter), F-71-A, B, C, D, DE, F, & G...and two 40 tooth PF-71 (Industrial) rats. The F-71-DE is an interesting oddball, though I don't note any notable differences in the mechanism between the F-71-D and the F-71-F models, except for a slightly different pawl which the F-71-DE would had fallen in between of in production. The "DE" uses the same pawl as the "D" model, where it has a slightly modified more vertical pawl direction differentiator at the contact point where the ball and the pawl meet. I believe it is the same pawl which was supplied in the RKR-962 repair kit. I also left out one majorly important detail the F-71-DE has compared to all other F-71 models, in the fact that it came factory with a unique hourglass shaped spring. I have only ever found this particular spring in two models, F-71-DE and F-710-BE which were only made in 1967. I assume it has to do with models where the "E" letter has been added to the model number? But I know no other legitimate reason why this particular spring was used only in these two models? My first thought for the "DE" model was that it was actually only a F-71-D model with the E added on later by Snap-On to indicate that the ratchet was a warranty exchange. But a closer observation of the E marking is that it does actually appear to be part of the original model number stamping done at the time the model number was stamped by Snap-On at production. There is a E stamping (warranty exchange) on the handle of this F-71-DE. So at some point this rat was warrantied at least one time. But this is the ONLY F-71-DE ratchet that I have ever seen, making it the least common F-71 model in my collection at this point. Edit: as of 10/17/23, I now have two F-71-DE's, proving these were actually made with the "DE" model number. But still have never seen an F-71-E model as of this point. As of 1/4/24 I have now found three F-71-DE models, all dated 1967. Now there's no doubt they were indeed a production model as well. But they must not had been in production very long (only one year), as the F-71-F came along by 1968.To add alittle more info. To my best knowledge so far the 1947 Snap-On F-71 (pre sub letter) did exist (I have one dated 1947). It was also apparently pre catalog because the F-71 wasn't in a catalog until 1948? However, I still am unclear as to it's original tooth count. So far the information I have come across is mostly only mere assumptions, not actually fact, it points to the fact that the very first F-71 model was only a 20 tooth, not 30? But the later 1948 & 1949 F-71-A model's sported a 40 tooth, as well as the industrial 1948 PF-71. Whether or not they were all 40 tooth, is unclear. All the various F-71's I have purchased, and I have purchased quite a few now, most of them had the 30 tooth. I try to look for these with their original internals still intact. I have purchased many F-71 rats now, and only one had a 20 tooth gear with a very uniquely rare one tooth per side engagement pawl inside. So from what I have learned so far is that the various F-71 model rats ranged in tooth counts from 20 to 40. But as I stated, all the information I have found is assumptions and suppositions. I am still on the hunt for other variations of the F-71 (non military style, F-71-M, F-71-N, FV71...etc). But I'm getting too far off the original topic. Well, that's my input, hopefully I added something to everybody's knowledge base.
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You seem to be very knowledgeable on this subject, do you know if I can get a repair kit for my F 71 B, or a compatible kit? Or am I SOL? Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Wamsutta
Well-known member
They started showing up in the 1995 catalog.
JSCraftsman
Well-known member
Yes, but unfortunately S-O discontinued the repair kit for the F-71-B many years ago. It was kit L962A. Then kits L962C, RKR962 and RKRA962 were produced for F-71, F-71C, D, DE, & F models. But S-O used to repair and rechrome the ratchets back in the day when they warrantied them decades ago... were talking a long long time ago in a far far away galaxy. You can still actually use kit RKRA38DC which repairs the F-71-G rat for any of the F-71 models (A,B,C,D,DE,F non military style flat handle). But there will be about a 1/16" gear/head back drop down gap because the F-71-B does not use the sealing head cap that the F-71-G uses. But the ratchet will still be 100% repaired and usable. I'm not partial to the supplied spring in the RKRA38DC kit because imo given the long length and the heavier guage wire S-O used to make the spring, I usually trim 2 to 3 coils off the springs length to give it a softer nicer ratcheting action. It is of course your preference, but I have found that the spring is just too long given the heavier guage wire. Let me know how it goes or what you decide to do with your F-71-B rat. It would probably be easier just to warranty the rat through S-O. But I myself have a niche for these old F-71 rats, I seem to have a disturbing addiction for them for some reason...lol
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I think the B has its on kit, which is Almost impossible to find, u will need a donor
JSCraftsman
Well-known member
Yup, that is another alternative for him. However finding a donor F-71 the problem is that you never know what condition the internals are in. Chances are, the internals will be ok, but on the other hand if you find one with broken teeth either on the gear or pawl, and those are the parts you specifically need, then you just burned your money. I have some 20 or more 30 tooth F-71 gears, but they all mostly either have broken or chipped teeth with all of them. I did however find that you can also use the F723 quick release gear (gear only) from kit RKRAF723 as a direct replacement for the 30 tooth F-71 gear. The machining is the same, and it adds the quick release function. Though I would suspect that S-O would not recommend using a different gear meant for a completely different ratchet. But I have several F-71's which I put the 30 tooth F723 q-r gear in, and they operate beautifully. Just another option.
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