When installing wire nuts pre-twist or no?

[rhuff86]

I recently moved in to a house that needs some light switches replaced and I have never really had any experience in home wiring. The house is a 25 year old modular so basicly a really really fancy double wide sitting on foundation. The light switches are the rocker style and many do not even stay in the on position unless pushed just right. I fear they are a fire hazard and want to replace them. While the electrician was here wiring in 220 for the oven I had him bust one open and show me what I need to do. It is hard to explain and I will add pictures when I can. The switches are not in boxes they are "clamped" to the wall like a cut in box. They are being used as junction boxes to run the rest of the house. The hot comes in the bottom of one and where there are double switches runs from a jumper to the other with yet another separate set of wires running to the rest of the house downstream from said switches. The way he told me to do it was to take out the jumper, then take all four wires (the hot, the feed for the rest of the circuit, and the two leading to the two lights) and wire all four white and bares together. Then take the jumper and cut it in half and use the blacks out of it and wire together with the blacks from the hot feed and downstream. Then just take those to the bottom of my switch and the blacks going to the lights on top. Also I am cutting the wallboard slightly to accommodate cut in boxes to house the new regular switches. This is how I did the first one and I am hoping that was indeed correct. My main concern was he did not mention if I should twist the wires before putting the nuts on or not. I did not have internet or cell service so I just thought it through and decided they should probably be twisted. I have read since then that it may be better to leave them straight and let the wire nut twist them after its tight. What is the consensus here? I have a couple more doubles to do and a bunch of singles. I have not opened up and single yet to see what they are like. Sorry this ended up so long. I hope to install a couple ceiling fans and light fixtures later down the road also. Home wiring is one thing I have just never had a chance to learn and I hope to gain knowledge in this section of the GJ.

 

[kiatech]

If its solid to solid or stranded to stranded I would twist. If its mix of say 2 solid and 1 stranded, twist the 2 solid and put the stranded next to it.

 

[Gerald O]

I don't believe you are going to get a "consensus" on this question. A lot of differing opinions out there.

 

[porschedude996TT]

Pre-Twist alway, any wire any size.

 

[Speedy Petey]

This is one of the oldest questions in the trade, and will garner many varied and sometimes contentious answers.
Bottom line is anyone who definitively says YES, you must, or NO, you should not, is WRONG.

99% of the time I pre-twist. About the only time I don't is with two or three #14's where I can twist them with just the wire nut alone. The thing is, the wires should end up looking like they were pre-twisted when all is said and done. If you don't pre-twist, then put on the wire nut, and the wires are still pretty much straight when you are finished it is not done right and is a very poor connection.

 

[rlitman]

This is one of the oldest questions in the trade, and will garner many varied and sometimes contentious answers.
Bottom line is anyone who definitively says YES, you must, or NO, you should not, is WRONG.

99% of the time I pre-twist. About the only time I don't is with two or three #14's where I can twist them with just the wire nut alone. The thing is, the wires should end up looking like they were pre-twisted when all is said and done. If you don't pre-twist, then put on the wire nut, and the wires are still pretty much straight when you are finished it is not done right and is a very poor connection.

What he said. The important part is to pull on each individual wire after putting the wire nut on, to be sure they all got grabbed by the wire nut.

The issue here is that using a wire nut takes a bit of skill. And it is possible with them to put wires together in a way that appears sound, but is in fact not at all. This is less likely when connecting two wires, but gets worse when connecting three or more wires, or when stranded wires enter the picture (because they twist differently).

I'm not actually a fan of the alternatives, but you might want to consider the push-in wire connectors. Especially when connecting four or more wires, they're easier for the uninitiated to use.

BTW, did I read that you're connecting the white with the bare (ground) wires? That's a big no-no. Perhaps pictures are indeed in order.

Also, this is all copper wire, right?

 

[Speedy Petey]

BTW, did I read that you're connecting the white with the bare (ground) wires? That's a big no-no. Perhaps pictures are indeed in order.

Good point. I hope he meant all the whites together and all the grounds together.


Also, is this house a mobile, or a modular? I've never seen a mod with those no-box all-in-one devices like mobile homes use.

 

[Highbeam]

Follow the directions on the wire nut box. I betcha it says not to pretwist.

 

[APEowner]

Follow the directions on the wire nut box. I betcha it says not to pretwist.

This ^

 

[signcrafter]

Like mentioned there really is a 100% right or wrong answer here. One thing I can say is to always use a GOOD wire nut, not the cheap ****. Wire nuts can get expensive, I just bought a bag of brown and a bag of green for some stuff. There is 100 in each bag and think it was around 10 bucks each. They had other ones that were half the price per 100 but they don't grab and hold as good. When I buy a light or fan or whatever it almost always comes with wire nuts. I throw those right in the garbage and grab some good ones from my electrical supplies.

 

[IOWNJUNK]

Like mentioned there really is a 100% right or wrong answer here.

Huh?

 

[rlitman]

They had other ones that were half the price per 100 but they don't grab and hold as good. When I buy a light or fan or whatever it almost always comes with wire nuts. I throw those right in the garbage and grab some good ones from my electrical supplies.

That's technically against code (though I've never heard of it being enforced), as the fixture is UL rated to be installed with the SUPPLIED accessories (subtle point).

Regardless, yes, I've found that some are better than others. The little orange ones that come with most fixtures I've installed lately are ok, but only for smaller wires (and they work well with the stranded wires that come with the fixtures; an important point), but only the ones that have a metal spring inside. The tiny ones that are all plastic are ****.

 

[55bigblockcid]

Yes and no,always

 

[Mustang51js]

I always do when I can, I've seen enough burned up wire nuts from not pre twisting. Just a tip if you do pre twist you need to pull and twist at the same time but not have a tight grip so the wires fold around each other at the end, if you hold to tight then the wire starts twisting beyond where the wire nut is going.

 

[pepi]

I just shove in the ends, try to make the copper even and twist, works the best. Less chance of the nut slipping off, better usage of the wire nuts.

 

[n8n]

I gotta admit, I'm not familiar with the devices that you are describing. Got pics? I'm expecting that you will need to purchase some "old work" boxes and a drywall saw to make this right in addition to the advice already given.

 

[Speedy Petey]

Follow the directions on the wire nut box. I betcha it says not to pretwist.

No, they typically say "pre-twisting not required". I have NEVER seen one that says pre-twiting not allowed.
This does not change the fact that the wires MUST twist inside the wire nut, regardless of pre-twisting or not.

 

[ezriderga]

I always pre-twist, whether solid or stranded, before using wire nut.

 

[Aceman]

I always pretwist, and require my helpers to do so as well. But, like others have said, it's not required.

I will mention one thing though, I've never seen a pretwisted connection fail or come apart. I have seen several connections come loose or wirenuts fall off of wires that weren't pretwisted that obviously had been installed wrong. That said, if you know what you're doing and actually put forth the effort required to twist the wirenuts snug you don't need to pretwist.

But, I like the idea of pretwisting and seeing the twisted wires before screwing on a wirenut. It's a little insurance in my mind that the connection is solid, the wirenut is simply being used to hold the pretwisted wires together at this point.

 

[madosta]

Pretwist with the wire nut, then take the wire nut off to check, then put it back on.

Double whammy!

 

[gnxtc2]

What I hate the most....wrapping the end of wire nut with tape, annoyance and a total home owner manuver.

I like to pre-twist the wires because alot of times I have to take the wire nut off on a live circuit. When the wires are not twisted, they go all over the place.

Billy T.
[email protected]

 

[rhuff86]

BTW, did I read that you're connecting the white with the bare (ground) wires? That's a big no-no. Perhaps pictures are indeed in order.

Also, this is all copper wire, right?

Yes it is copper and I must not have explained good enough. All four whites together, all four bare wires together and the black hot and downstream feed with two pig tails, 3 nuts containing 4 wires each. I will work on some pictures.

 

[Bogey won]

pre twist or twist, then seal it with black electrical tape viola,cap no fall off.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

That's technically against code (though I've never heard of it being enforced), as the fixture is UL rated to be installed with the SUPPLIED accessories (subtle point).

Regardless, yes, I've found that some are better than others. The little orange ones that come with most fixtures I've installed lately are ok, but only for smaller wires (and they work well with the stranded wires that come with the fixtures; an important point), but only the ones that have a metal spring inside. The tiny ones that are all plastic are ****.

I scrap those little orange ones also and go right to the tan ones.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

What I hate the most....wrapping the end of wire nut with tape, annoyance and a total home owner manuver.

I like to pre-twist the wires because alot of times I have to take the wire nut off on a live circuit. When the wires are not twisted, they go all over the place.

Billy T.
[email protected]

Ive been taping them with super 33 for years,I also wrap plugs and switches before they go into the box.

 

[mobiledynamics]

I wrap plugs and switches , but that is mainly because out here, we use steel boxes ...

 

[RECox286]

Of all the failed connections I find, probably a good

half are due to improper wire nutting practice. I twist

the wires prior to installing what ever wire nut I'm

using and tighten up the nut just a bit more than

finger tight. I have not found any problems with such

an installation. My two scents for what it is worth.

Uncle Bob

 

[pepi]

What I hate the most....wrapping the end of wire nut with tape, annoyance and a total home owner manuver.

I like to pre-twist the wires because alot of times I have to take the wire nut off on a live circuit. When the wires are not twisted, they go all over the place.

Billy T.
[email protected]

Copper wire does that really ? That's a new one and I'd love to see a clip of that. BTW you hand twist the live wires before you replace the wire nut?

The wire nut twist the wire as it is screw on, kind of forms a threaded surface for the wire nut. You can twist the wire nut until it starts to twist the whole bundle. That will clean up the rat nest makes it easier to fit in the box.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Oh, no. Not the wire twist question again... Please ask about PVC air lines next.

Tommy

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

 

[Speedy Petey]

Copper wire does that really ? That's a new one and I'd love to see a clip of that. BTW you hand twist the live wires before you replace the wire nut?

It absolutely does! Ask any real electrician.
And yes, from time to time we do have to deal with live circuits, not often, but it happens.

The wire nut twist the wire as it is screw on, kind of forms a threaded surface for the wire nut. You can twist the wire nut until it starts to twist the whole bundle. That will clean up the rat nest makes it easier to fit in the box.

It is RARE that folks actually (and properly) go this far when installing wire nuts. Especially with 4 or 5 #12's.

 

[Bogey won]

Originally Posted by gnxtc2 View Post
What I hate the most....wrapping the end of wire nut with tape, annoyance and a total home owner maneuver.


Who knew twisting your nuts was an art form ?

 

[Paul1956]

I am not a huge fan of wire nuts given the mechanical connection
is not always the best.

I prefer the old style of "wire nuts" that had a set screw like those
at the link below:

http://www.galesburgelectric.com/Ideal-30-211-Set-Screw-Wire-Connectors.html

You place the wires to be connected into the screw connector
then tighten up the screw to make a good mechanical connection
and then screw over the cover.

 

[rhuff86]

Here are pictures of the switches and what I am doing.

 

[ctgoodman]

I am not a huge fan of wire nuts given the mechanical connection
is not always the best.

I prefer the old style of "wire nuts" that had a set screw like those
at the link below:

http://www.galesburgelectric.com/Ideal-30-211-Set-Screw-Wire-Connectors.html

You place the wires to be connected into the screw connector
then tighten up the screw to make a good mechanical connection
and then screw over the cover.

Those certainly would make a solid and secure connection. You might go broke using them at .89 cents each..

 

[slip knot]

Wow, just wow.

Yeah I believe I'd be replacing ALL of those too.

 

[mobiledynamics]

That is a 1st I've seen.....

The switch is a AIO in that it has cut-in-ears to secure to sheetrock.
Then the lack of screw terminals..

 

[Eriehunter]

Make sure you run a ground tail up to the green screw on your switches, your screws would not be grounded and your metal plate if you use them.

Been doing electrical work for 20+ years and I prefer to twist my wire with my side cutters before installing the wire nuts.

 

[alfredeneuman]

The switch is meant for a Mobile Home

https://www.starsupplyusa.com/produ...ite-self-contained-rocker-wall-switch-es-2329

 

[rhuff86]

Wow, just wow.

Yeah I believe I'd be replacing ALL of those too.

Yes I plan to, a couple have already been done before I was here, I am going around doing the ones that clearly feel wrong. Later on when I have more free time (probably this winter) I will do all the others. I fear all the outlets are wired in a similar fashion with the same type of boxes. There is one under the bed that is pushed into the wall so when I get a chance I will pull it out and check it out. If they are wired the same as the switches I will probably go around and replace all of them also.