When is a ratchet being subjected to too much force?

[BrandonV]

Was taking out some bolts from an industrial piece of equipment and I felt like I was really putting my weight on a standard length 3/8" ratchet for a bolt with a 1/2" head. Was unable to use an electric impact in this spot.

I thought afterwards that maybe I should have tried the breaker bar first.

Any harm in putting that sort of weight on the ratchet or should I be carrying a breaker bar as well? What do you do?

 

[dnschmidt]

I find ratchets to be just as strong as breaker bars.

 

[terrific]

Tekton's website gives the following numbers as an ASME standard value to which a ratchet must be torqued without sustaining permanent deformation.
1/4: 41.7 ft.lbs
3/8: 150
1/2: 375
3/4: 1000

Project Farm's videos showed (roughly) the following failure points using brand new ratchets.
1/4: 75 ft.lbs.
3/8: 270
1/2: 700

Since all(?) of the ratchets failed when the square drive snapped off rather than the mechanism slipping, the failure point for breaker bars is probably similar.

My takeaway was that those long-handled 1/4" ratchets are not a good idea, but I should probably get a longer 1/2" ratchet. Currently leaning towards an 18" handle, but 15" might be more practical.

 

[richfinn]

Standard length ratchet vs breaker bar?, it's really a question of leverage rather than strength.

Get a longer ratchet or add a breaker bar to your kit, I've got all three options plus impact

 

[DGersic]

Was taking out some bolts from an industrial piece of equipment and I felt like I was really putting my weight on a standard length 3/8" ratchet for a bolt with a 1/2" head. Was unable to use an electric impact in this spot.

I thought afterwards that maybe I should have tried the breaker bar first.

Any harm in putting that sort of weight on the ratchet or should I be carrying a breaker bar as well? What do you do?

If I feel like I’m “really putting my weight” in to something, I go get a bigger / longer wrench. I want something where I’m not working hard at it, using leverage instead of muscle. Less chance of punching something that way, with better control of the torque applied.

For the most part, a standard length 3/8” ratchet is what I spin off a barely tight fastener with. If it’s tight, or rusty, or otherwise harder to remove (or likely to shear off), I get the long handle 1/2” ratchet. If I’m pulling hard on the long 1/2”, I get the 24” breaker or 24” ratchet. If I’m pulling hard on the 24”, I get the cheater pipe.

If I’m pulling hard on the cheater, something’s going to break and I probably need to be cutting off whatever it is instead of applying more torque to it. I don’t have 3/4” or larger tools.

 

[DGersic]

My takeaway was that those long-handled 1/4" ratchets are not a good idea, but I should probably get a longer 1/2" ratchet. Currently leaning towards an 18" handle, but 15" might be more practical.

I like my long handle 1/4” ratchet, more for the reach than the torque. I don’t want a lot of torque on anything I can put a tiny 1/4” socket on, whatever it is will shear or round off.

Example: the brake bleeders on rear drums. Easy to stick a socket on and the long handle clears the drum. A normal handle doesn’t clear the drum. Apply too much torque, the bleeder either rounds or snaps, but even the normal handle length can do that.

 

[Hohn]

The ratchet will usually let you know when you have overloaded it.

 

[lund]

Most modern ratchets of decent brands are probably more limited by the strength of the anvil than the gears. So it is unlikely one is much better than the other and the most important thing that you can do if you are not strong enough is to go up in size. If something is stuck, impact is intrinsically better and should be used since impact blows are far better than continuous torque to loosen a tight fastener. Long handles are often more for reach than leverage. Probably the most dangerous to potentially damage are long handle 1/4 drives since the anvil is small and one might easily surpass the material strength of the anvil with a strong pull. There is also another advantage to using larger sizes with stuck fasteners. The larger ratchet assemblies are more stiff, so they better transfer break free impulses to the fastener as you provide a pull or jolt of a pull. But that pales in comparison to battery or air impact tools that give many impacts a second.

Breaker bars are ok for some uses since the lack of a ratchet enables one to rock a fastener back and forth and that can be useful (example, with tap thread cutting with tap sockets ... though sliding T-handles can be better for that; or backing up bolts on the opposite side where you might want to loosen a little too). But I doubt (up through 1/2 drive sizes that I am familiar with at least), that they are more strong than ratchets due to having more or less the same anvils.

Another point is that quick release anvils are a bit weaker due to the hollowed out anvil with a quick release mechanism is weaker relative to a solid anvil on non-quick release ratchets. I have never seen a quick release breaker bar ... probably because that would make no sense on using such for high torque applications. If one is really concerned about breakage, then you do not want quick release style. Myself, I prefer quick release, and cannot recall ever breaking one in many years of use. But I also go up in size and/or use impact if a bolt is significantly stuck.

 

[KnurledNut]

Was taking out some bolts from an industrial piece of equipment and I felt like I was really putting my weight on a standard length 3/8" ratchet for a bolt with a 1/2" head. Was unable to use an electric impact in this spot.

I thought afterwards that maybe I should have tried the breaker bar first.

Any harm in putting that sort of weight on the ratchet or should I be carrying a breaker bar as well? What do you do?

Hit it with a hammer.

 

[niget2002]

Speaking from experience... ratchets can take as much force as you can provide. Until they stop ratcheting.

I have 4 sitting in the top of my box waiting for me to order rebuild kits.

BTW. All 4 of mine I broke by sticking a cheater bar on it. I was young, dumb, and didn't know better. The fact that over the years I've managed to do this 4 times helps to show I'm also a slow learner.

 

[Steve_P]

The obvious answer is about two seconds before it breaks. But seriously, there are soooooo many youtube videos that show that any quality modern ratchet fails at the anvil, and not the gears; meaning that the same sized breaker bar will also fail at the anvil. And ratchets are no longer any thicker than breaker bars; and many are now thinner than BBs. So, while I haven't sold mine, I rarely use breaker bars anymore. Yes, they are useful in certain situations.

 

[PirateTurner]

I have a NAPA house brand 3/8" ratchet I bought in my 20's. Fifty years later it is still my favorite in my poorly stocked toolbox. Somewhere in the past, I but a 3'-4' assist device on it and since then I'm reminded of that occurrence by having a ratchet with a nicely curved handle, about a 20 degree bend.

Ratchet feature works find. Pictures upon request.

 

[Beerhippie]

I've broken many sockets in 3/8 and 1/2" drive, but never a ratchet. I've put 3' cheaters on my '70s Craftsman 1/2" and used my legs to push on it--and I'm still using it.

 

[Rinspeed]

I've always thought I'd much rather break a $50 breaker bar than a $200 ratchet.

 

[john.k]

I always tried not to break tools ......everything has its limitations ,and my aim was to make tools last ..........guarantees here were a joke ,no way youd ever get a new tool for an old one..........sellers dont make any money on returns and actively discourage them.

 

[Callelle]

I've kinda gotten over going easy on stuff. We buy stuff and hype up a warranty as a benefit, especially on stupid expensive stuff, I intend to use it. I typically have a double or at least something that will work when something breaks.

 

[PCustoms]

Usually just before the teeth strip...

 

[lowbucktruck]

Agreed, the anvil of a ratchet is definitely the weak link. In my humble opinion (based on experience)... stepping up from a 3/8-inch drive ratchet to a 1/2-inch drive ratchet helps... but the breaker bar should be ready to hand, if the fastener is torqued down enough to put up a fight.

I just used a long-handled ratchet to take a tire off my wife's car this weekend.

When you are out in a field away from air and power, sometimes you need the non-powered alternative to an impact gun. Depends on your work circumstances.

 

[Etchase]

The popular carnage videos show ratchets tested until the anvil breaks, but frequently, if they take them apart there is damage to the gear and pawl as well. I’ve certainly found many a damaged gear or pawl in a swap meet ratchet with an intact anvil. I’ve heard some tool salesman claim their tool is worth magical money, because of the unique to them special metal. This doesn’t seem to jive with most everyone’s anvils breaking at basically the same force in these tests. I forget if it was PF or Client Graphics that had a Craftsman come out on top. Must be the metallurgical staff at Stanley brewing up an extra special alloy for Craftsman. At least Stanley probably has a metallurgist.

 

[john.k]

One time breaking strain of a new tool may be very different to fatigue life of a component...............anvils with holes for dtent balls and springs break in one time tests .......but do they break in fatigue tests..............Ive got several 1" rattleguns that have broken at the transition from round to square ,not in the hole.

 

[ronkz650]

I use long handle ratchets when any bolts are even remotely tight. I have a 11" 1/4 drive, 18" 3/8 drive, and a 25" 1/2 drive. No use fighting no leverage using a 10" long 1/2" ratchet on a tight bolt, or worse yet smaller drive sizes with even shorter handles.

 

[charbar]

Id be far more worried about snapping most any bolt that has a 1/2" head before I would be worried about breaking a 3/8" ratchet. Honestly if I was even remotely worried about my ratchet in that situation I would probably consider it junk and toss it in the trash

 

[CS454]

i just wait for the cheater to slip and take the time off

 

[johninct]

Was taking out some bolts from an industrial piece of equipment and I felt like I was really putting my weight on a standard length 3/8" ratchet for a bolt with a 1/2" head. Was unable to use an electric impact in this spot.

I thought afterwards that maybe I should have tried the breaker bar first.

Any harm in putting that sort of weight on the ratchet or should I be carrying a breaker bar as well? What do you do?

18" long 3/8" drive breaker bar.

 

[mikey03]

Was taking out some bolts from an industrial piece of equipment and I felt like I was really putting my weight on a standard length 3/8" ratchet for a bolt with a 1/2" head. Was unable to use an electric impact in this spot.

1/2 “ head bolt is going to shear off before you brake the 3/8 ratchet anvil

heres a chart @AEAdam posted that I saved



1/2 “ is just smaller than 13 mm so let’s figure your sae bolt is going to be close to an M8 in size and torque rating. The biggest torque for an m8 is 33 foot pounds.

3/8 ratchets going to go to 150 foot pounds per standard at minimum and usually good ratchets go 1.5 to double the standard. So your talking about a bolt that at most has a torque rating of 1/5 the minimum amount that the cheapest Chinese ratchet can handle

if it feels like something going to brake then it’s prob the bolt so have some extractors handy I like left hand drill bits myself tbh

my rule of thumb is 2x the drive size if the bolt is bigger than that and I feel something about to brake then I think it will be the ratchet anvil. So 3/8 is around 10 mm and 2x that is around 19 mm. Look at the chart and see 19 mm head could be m12 or m14 and if it’s m14 max torque is 177 which is just above the min standard for 3/8 ratchets

you start going to 22 mm head now your at 273 foot pounds max which can brake off your 3/8 anvil. So you might have 3/8 drive sockets to 24 mm but once you go past 19 mm if your feeling like it’s putting too much force then the anvil going to brake before the bolt. If it’s much below 19 and your feeling something will brake prob the bolt head will go before the anvil. If it’s close to 19 mm then flip a coin which will brake first.

1/2 is alot below 19 so bolt will go first