When you own a mill...
- Thread starter gte718p
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ilovevocs
Well-known member
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sberry
Banned
I agree its a great hobby and there is a time and place if it saves money. CNC would make machining even better.
My neighbor has stuff and am trucking most of a machine shop this weekend for another, I don't enjoy standing at a machine and as the nature of some equipment changed so did the needs.
As one said if you got it then it seems you need it. I have a master works for me, a genius. He was sharp enough to get something apart we were having a problem with and the first reaction was to run it down to the lathe but I snatched it up and put a DA paper on the bench and dressed a seat in a couple minutes perfect as you could turn it.
Those guys do it all the time, gonna make tool to do something and I grab a pair of tin snips and cut,,, or you could do that they say,,, hahahaha We finished the job then and there.
Back in the day a lot was built job shop, now for current equipment the parts chain has improved so much most of it isn't worth it from a cost standpoint. Even a lot of common dealer parts have become competitive.
If a guy has a one off machine a simple call from a parts manual and you got it.
I have so many tricks and stock a lot of them that there is a faster easier way,,,, and I do realize that is not the issue at hand, its more of a demand.
I can understand the knob, that could even be a practical issue considering acquisition cost + outright parts cost. We build and salvage all the time, don't have to stop everything and faster to make than get. I agree with obsolete parts in a lot of cases, a guy can fix a valve someone wants 85 for on an old fridge, its fine if it works but not worth tossing 100's at it in parts for something could be short lived anyway.
My neighbor has stuff and am trucking most of a machine shop this weekend for another, I don't enjoy standing at a machine and as the nature of some equipment changed so did the needs.
As one said if you got it then it seems you need it. I have a master works for me, a genius. He was sharp enough to get something apart we were having a problem with and the first reaction was to run it down to the lathe but I snatched it up and put a DA paper on the bench and dressed a seat in a couple minutes perfect as you could turn it.
Those guys do it all the time, gonna make tool to do something and I grab a pair of tin snips and cut,,, or you could do that they say,,, hahahaha We finished the job then and there.
Back in the day a lot was built job shop, now for current equipment the parts chain has improved so much most of it isn't worth it from a cost standpoint. Even a lot of common dealer parts have become competitive.
If a guy has a one off machine a simple call from a parts manual and you got it.
I have so many tricks and stock a lot of them that there is a faster easier way,,,, and I do realize that is not the issue at hand, its more of a demand.
I can understand the knob, that could even be a practical issue considering acquisition cost + outright parts cost. We build and salvage all the time, don't have to stop everything and faster to make than get. I agree with obsolete parts in a lot of cases, a guy can fix a valve someone wants 85 for on an old fridge, its fine if it works but not worth tossing 100's at it in parts for something could be short lived anyway.
sberry
Banned
I am on lame *** single phase power so it was always a bit of a speed bump and I finally got past wanting it all anyway. I have a good size shop and if I was really going to bother would consider adding on just for it.
Same for a tig welder today, I got a couple pals has them and even if I did have to pay its so rare I actually need it that it would be irrelevant.
Same for a tig welder today, I got a couple pals has them and even if I did have to pay its so rare I actually need it that it would be irrelevant.
ilovevocs
Well-known member
posted in the wrong thread.. Sorry.
And it turns out the having a mill is even better when you have a DRO.
It went fairly well. For the X axis, I milled two aluminum pieces to fit in the dovetail and two aluminum shims to space the encoder out. I had to modify the bracket for the X axis. The Y access I used two screw hole conveniently already on the machine for the encoder track. There are also two bolt holes on the back of the table. I built a little sheetmetal bracket to connect the two. I'll probably go back an mill something fancier later, but it works. Still have the Z axis to do, but I'm not in a hurry to mess with it yet.
Next project is the get a better display. I have all the parts to build Yuriy bluetooth display for the imaging scales.
http://www.yuriystoys.com/2014/11/touchdro-version-2-now-available.html
I also may have found the lathe. I'm going to look at it this weekend. Yeh.
It went fairly well. For the X axis, I milled two aluminum pieces to fit in the dovetail and two aluminum shims to space the encoder out. I had to modify the bracket for the X axis. The Y access I used two screw hole conveniently already on the machine for the encoder track. There are also two bolt holes on the back of the table. I built a little sheetmetal bracket to connect the two. I'll probably go back an mill something fancier later, but it works. Still have the Z axis to do, but I'm not in a hurry to mess with it yet.
Next project is the get a better display. I have all the parts to build Yuriy bluetooth display for the imaging scales.
http://www.yuriystoys.com/2014/11/touchdro-version-2-now-available.html
I also may have found the lathe. I'm going to look at it this weekend. Yeh.
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Joe69
Well-known member
Certainly, both the US and the Russians used pencils early on, but the hazards were also well known early on. Manufacturer Paul Fisher heard about said problems, and since he was already in the business of making high-quality refill cartridges, developed a complete pen and sent samples to NASA for testing.
http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp
As for "stupid money", he sold the initial pens to NASA for $2.95 each. That's the equivalent of about $23 today. Not Bic prices, but hardly a $600 toilet seat either.
Ironic, isn't it? Here you are, debunking an urban legend about the cost of pens for NASA, and you toss in an urban legend about the cost of toilet seats.
Here's the truth on the $800 (not $600) toilet seat. The toilet SEATS, i.e., where you actually park your cheeks, were standard off the shelf units from a typical plumbing supply place. The Navy was not paying, nor was Lockheed charging $800 for a toilet seat. What was $800 was the custom fabricated cover over the waste tanks in the head (hey, we are talking Navy here, for those who don't speak Navy, that would be the bathroom). It is custom fabricated because you simply can't go down to your local plumbing supplier, or anybody else for that matter, and get something that will fit precisely into a plane that was initially designed 30 years before, and includes all of the necessary cutouts, and hardpoints for attaching plumbing lines, electrical, etc. The toilet seat attached to the deck (think of how a porta-potty is designed.) Unlike your standard porta-potty, which are stamped/molded in the thousands every year, a grand total of 650 P-3s were produced over 29 years, in multiple variants. Not much room for "economies of scale" there....
BTW, the P-3 Orion is still in service today.
paramud
Well-known member
Hey! I am doing a CNC on a RF-31 right now also!! I got it and a small lathe from work for $200. I also have a friends bridgeport in my garage.
Nice. How are you going about it?
I'm pleased to report that I'm now the proud owner of a little Atlas Lathe. Unfortunately my crane failed loading it so I dropped it and broke the motor mount. It either has some brazing or some JBweld in is future. Then I have to run through everything and make sure it is mostly straight.
paramud
Well-known member
I have the rf 31 apart. I am going with steppers with 2:1 belt reduction. Would like to do servos but it would add $600 to the build cost. I am still trying to figure out how I want to do the Z. Havnt started ordering anything else yet. Making a welding table before I can start on it.
Basically I am going to get the ball screws and motors mounted for x and y then start working on the z
I keep going back and forth between direct drive and gear reduction. To me, Z looks the easiest. I'm going to do it similarly to this guys kit. I just need to find the gears.
http://www.paulcnc.com/product/milling-machine/
http://www.paulcnc.com/product/milling-machine/
paramud
Well-known member
Wow, that is expensive for a stepper kit (with brackets)! I am probably going to buy this kit.
http://www.automationtechnologiesin...r-kits/g540-3-axis-nema34-468ozin-48v7-3a-psu
http://www.automationtechnologiesin...r-kits/g540-3-axis-nema34-468ozin-48v7-3a-psu
That is not a bad deal. You can see the electronics I'm using on my build page. There is a good chance I'm going to be underpowered.
I'm sure not going buy that guys kit, but I am going to copy his Z axis and possibly all of his axises. Not super impressed with the hose clamp design though. It would be fairly simple to bolt it to the bearing block especially if when I design a new bearing block for the ball screws.
I'm sure not going buy that guys kit, but I am going to copy his Z axis and possibly all of his axises. Not super impressed with the hose clamp design though. It would be fairly simple to bolt it to the bearing block especially if when I design a new bearing block for the ball screws.
I've been struggling with surface finish on the mill. At first I assumed it was because I was just guessing at the proper feed rates. I started actually looking them up and setting the speed correctly and was still having problems. I was getting single point contact and leaving scallops on everything I did. Turns out the head was out of tram by over a .01". Fixing it with a dial indicator works, but is a pain. The right tool for the job was expensive, but it makes things so much better.
$200 but makes tramming the head so much easier. Worth every cent.
I'm now about .0015" out. Good enough for what I want to do.
$200 but makes tramming the head so much easier. Worth every cent.
I'm now about .0015" out. Good enough for what I want to do.
Kevin54
MEMBER EMERITUS
I've been struggling with surface finish on the mill. At first I assumed it was because I was just guessing at the proper feed rates. I started actually looking them up and setting the speed correctly and was still having problems. I was getting single point contact and leaving scallops on everything I did. Turns out the head was out of tram by over a .01". Fixing it with a dial indicator works, but is a pain. The right tool for the job was expensive, but it makes things so much better.
$200 but makes tramming the head so much easier. Worth every cent.
I'm now about .0015" out. Good enough for what I want to do.
You're tramming on the end of the table, so you will be out of tram in the center of the table, and out twice as much on the other end. To verify that, set the tramming tool on the end like you have it, then go to the other end and lift up slightly and watch the needle move.
I like to tram off of the vise if I am using the vise. Reason being is that the vise is in the center of the table, and the parts you are machining fits in the vise. What I normally do is have a ground flat plate that I set on top of two 1-2-3 blocks that are sitting in the vise, then I tram off the top of the plate. I also like to tram with the quill all of the way down. Once you have things set to zero, or at least to .0005, then you can pretty well figure that when you have a part clamped up in the vise that you are spot on.
Anybody I have ever taught machining to the first thing I taught them was how to tram a mill. I showed them how to do it by tramming the mill myself, then I kicked things way out of tram and let them go at it. Some caught on right out of the starting gate, and others took up to two hours to get a mill in tram
It's not one of the easiest things to do.Kevin54
MEMBER EMERITUS
I just purchased a Tormach PCNC1100 mill and so far its working out great for the money spent. Here is some of the stupid stuff I machined before getting the mill.
84......how did you machine the portion that says "JEEP"?
I'm actually going to be working off the table in that area. That is why I'm setting it against the table right there. I actually checked both the vise and the far side of the table. It is pretty consistent. I think getting it set for this location will be good over the range of the table. I will definitely go back and check the center next time I remove the vise.
I like the flat plate idea. Thanks for the idea. I have always set it to the flat surface of the vise and I've always swung a dial indicator. Unfortunately I don't have one a ground plate. Yet another thing I may need to invest in. It really is true, the mill is the cheap part of machining. Tooling is already making the mill look cheap and I'm not even set up that well yet.
This is a round column mill. I don't generally machine with the quill down very far. It is just not stout enough. I would be afraid to set anything with the quill down as it would probably throw everything off.
That being said, I despite all the bad press round column mills get, I'm really enjoying it. It is definitely a project to get it dialed in perfectly, but it has been incredibly useful.
383 240z
Well-known member
That's awesome, I'm in a similar situation. Plastic knob on the crock pot lid let go of the glass lid. Wife was freaking as ppl were coming for dinner. I saw the problem, 30 mins in the shop machining one, problem solved, dinner went fine, the guy who came thought the HDPE knob I made was real cool, wife thought I was Superman! Didn't complain next time I placed an order to Enco.