Where do I start???

[1SlowFormula]

Hey guys, I have mainly been lurking, looking at pics, getting ideas, and only posted a few times but now I have a chance to actually get my garage. Last night my wife and I were talking money, and she said that for my B-day this year (next week) I can get my garage, she wants me to start getting all the things I need then we will figure out the budget, but wow I will finally be getting a garage. She said that she has been telling people who have been asking what I wanted for my B-day to get me things (toys for a garage, things to put in it) or money to help build it...

So what do I do first, as it has always been something I wanted I rarely seriously thought about it because we just never had the money for it. I have been reading a lot of things and they all say the first step is to go find your local building codes, but they are not online for my area, so I have to wait until next week and actually go in and talk to someone. But what do I say, or do I just look for certain things? I know I need to know setback, and what type/material building, but what else should I need to ask about?

The plan is to take this:

and add something like this:

Just imagine the 2 door side facing the carport, the man door and other garage dor facing the lawn, and the 3rd door inthe back being a little smaller, and just used mainly to get the lawn equiptment in and out and so forth. I got a quote from a steel building to match that layout but as 28' W (dual door side) by 30' L, but that was only from a guess of what my offset may need to be by measuring how far my neighbors garage is from my fence. At 28' wide it puts lawn side wal about equal to the carport side wall of the house like so (sorry for the crude off scale drawing, I just threw it togther in paint real quick):

 

[1SlowFormula]

Sorry for such a random post, but I am just so excited right now...

 

[limeranger]

my suggestion is to try to determine what you want to do in your garage and what you need to store in it (lawn equipment, bicycles, ect) it may sound like small stuff but it adds up quick. I see an old mustang in the picture, plan on restoring it maybe? that takes more then just room to park it. What tools do you want to have in there. There are computer programs to layout the inside of your garage or I usually just use graph paper, I find it gives a little more of an idea where things can and will work best for you. Start by finding out how big you want/can build it and then try to go from there, talking to a city official/building inspector now will save alot of headaches later. I actually found out my inspector is a pretty cool and easy to deal with, who did'nt mind my first time building a garage questions when he realized i just wanted to do it right. hope that helps some, I know my proget was a huge learning experience,while being fun and fustrating at the same time, i'm still working on mine 1year later.

 

[limeranger]

Oh yeah check height restrictions also. might not be a problem but good to ask. Also congratulations your plan looks good.

 

[1SlowFormula]

Yeah I already did a little laying out of what is going in, but I also can't go too much bigger because I need to compromize with lawn space for kids, and resale...

Yeah the 67 Mustang is getting restored, I have a drag car ('95 Firebird chassis) that currently resides full time in the trailer under the carport, and it I need to work on it for anything I have to pull it out and then it lives on jackstands on the plywood and 2X12's that is behind the trailer...

The garage is going to be wide enough for 2 car plus plenty of room around them to work, or since they all move I can pull one out if it is a huge job (but considering I am used to the only floor space when working on them now is a 4'X8' sheet of plywood on the ground, I think this a huge amount of work space), and deep enough to have lawn stuff on one side (by that back door) and the tools, compressor, shop area in the opposite rear corner. That should be about a good 10X6ish space to the lawn stuff, and storage above, then 10X22ish of shop/tool area, leaving a 20X28 parking area. And of that the only walled off are will be the actual area around the lawn stuff, so the 20X28 and 10X22 area will all be open area aside from bench and cart placement. As for tools, I have pretty much a full load of tools but they all reside all over the place right now, some in the basement or other parts of the house, some in the shed, and other stuff is locked up in the trailer with the car. So getting them in one location would be cool, I hate working in the yard and needing to run downstairs to use the drill press, bench grinder, or anything like that, then heading out, test fitting it and going back to the basement to regrind or whatever is needed, it takes forever. That and the air compressor is currently in the basement, so if I need compressed air while working I normally have to send the line out a window...

Thanks for the heads up (pun intended) on the height requirements, I will add that into what I need to ask about.

Any other suggestions?

 

[tdkkart]

Probably the first thing to do is make a list of what you want, and then, assuming you're not doing it yourself, get a couple estimates from contractors.

Then, decide if you can indeed afford to do the job. What starts lokking like a $5 or 10 thousand dollar project can quickly grow to $20 or 30K in a big hurry.
If you're comfortabke with that, and assuming you don't have the cash on hand, then you need to talk with the bank and see if you can get it done. In today's economy banks have seriously tightened their purse strings to everyone except those with really good credit.

Sorry for the dose of reality, but it's something that has to be considered up front.
I'd really like to be finishing off my shop this year, I just got the rest of my floor poured, but that may be it for this year unless things dramatically improve.

 

[caho]

I highly recommend a scaled drawing. You can draw what you want on graph paper, and make to-scale block cut out's for the big things that take up a lot of floor space, like cars, welders, grinders, toolboxes, shelving etc.

You can move the cut-outs around on the paper and have a good idea as to what you need for dimensions and where things can go. Don't forget that walls have thickness, and that this is only good for a 2D view. Short things on wheels like welders and shop-vacs can roll under counters and cabinets if you plan ahead.


It doesn't take all that long, and helps to get a grasp on what you need to accommodate what you want it to do.

 

[e-tek]

my suggestion is to try to determine what you want to do in your garage and what you need to store in it (lawn equipment, bicycles, ect) it may sound like small stuff but it adds up quick. I see an old mustang in the picture, plan on restoring it maybe? that takes more then just room to park it. What tools do you want to have in there.

Luckily, the OP has already put in plans for a SHED! First rule of "working-garages" is: NO GARDEN TOOLS or BIKES!!! Another rule you should TRY to plan for (assuming you want it to be a working garage (aka:shop)) is not parking your daily drivers in it. I see you also have a carport so you're pretty much set!

But limeranger makes a good second point - restoring a car takes 2 stalls and a lot of storage area! Plan for tools/benches/storage taking up 3 feet ALL the way around the shop - which effectively makes your working space 6 feet less each way.

Great plans BTW!

 

[TRTOOLSUPPLY]

Your first step was right on.Ask for input /ideas before you start to build.It is much easier to change things on paper as Caho said.If there is anything I can help you with such as a quote or brand suggestion,let me know.
Just remember to take pic's for the gallery section,so we all can enjoy your build!

 

[strnge]

I am one of those guys who need to see things first to see if they will work. I would make a list of things which I need inside, then go looking around the friends/neighbors garages to see what size I think it might fit in and then look inside the garage to make sure they will fit in the space. Then I would go a bit bigger, since I know I forgot some things. Please post regular upsates.

Mike

 

[fatboy99]

A friend of mine took stake's and rope layed out the size of the shop he wanted to build then put thing's inside the area inside the rope to see how it all fit and adjusted the size accordingly i thought that was a great idea worth a try
Brad

 

[Red Green]

I would suggest you look into the trusses that have an attic space. More storage with the same footprint. I assume you are in an area that doesn't have snow so you will not have to worry about the added weight. If you are doing a restoration you will need space to store parts that you might not need for some time.

 

[rinny_tin_tin]

Hey guys, I have mainly been lurking, looking at pics, getting ideas, and only posted a few times but now I have a chance to actually get my garage. Last night my wife and I were talking money, and she said that for my B-day this year (next week) I can get my garage, she wants me to start getting all the things I need then we will figure out the budget, but wow I will finally be getting a garage. She said that she has been telling people who have been asking what I wanted for my B-day to get me things (toys for a garage, things to put in it) or money to help build it...

So what do I do first, as it has always been something I wanted I rarely seriously thought about it because we just never had the money for it. I have been reading a lot of things and they all say the first step is to go find your local building codes, but they are not online for my area, so I have to wait until next week and actually go in and talk to someone. But what do I say, or do I just look for certain things? I know I need to know setback, and what type/material building, but what else should I need to ask about?

The plan is to take this:

and add something like this:

Just imagine the 2 door side facing the carport, the man door and other garage dor facing the lawn, and the 3rd door inthe back being a little smaller, and just used mainly to get the lawn equiptment in and out and so forth. I got a quote from a steel building to match that layout but as 28' W (dual door side) by 30' L, but that was only from a guess of what my offset may need to be by measuring how far my neighbors garage is from my fence. At 28' wide it puts lawn side wal about equal to the carport side wall of the house like so (sorry for the crude off scale drawing, I just threw it togther in paint real quick):

First thing I did, and I'm glad I did - was to hire a local architect. He helped a great deal in navigating a course through the building codes while at the same time, provided good construction drawings. It was worth every penny - but it was not much at all.

 

[1SlowFormula]

Well, thanks for all the suggestions...

I will go out tomorrow and mark it out on the ground, and I have a decent imagination and good sense of spaces, so I will do that. I may park the mustang in the marked out area to see what it would be like in there with doors open and all that...

Once I get the info from the town next week then I have the setback, I can get a better idea of what will work best for the space, once I have that I can get pricing for the foundation/slab work. When I was in college I worked as a laborer for a large concrete and masonry firm in the area, so I know how to do that stuff. But I still have to price it out, then my wife and I will figure out the best way to pay for it. then the ball will roll from there...

I will keep things updated, as you can see I am excited about it and ran out first thing this morning to shoot those pics above, so more pics will be sure to come.

Thanks for the suggestions and keep them coming...

 

[fatboy99]

Another suggestion is get the book titled how to build your dream garage it has a lot of good info on how to build and set up your shop in the back it has listing's of supply company's and web site's (that's how i found this great fourm)
Brad

 

[ddawg16]

Slow....it would help to know what area you are in.....buiding requirements change from area to area.....but some things stay pretty consistant....

Height....for the most part, your height will be limited to something like 15' if you are closer than 5' to the property line. I'm 6" from mine.

I consider the space between the garage and fence to be dead space so you need to figure out how much or little you want and what you can do with it. After your garage is built and bought off, it makes a great area to build a small shed for yard stuff and to keep your compressor in. Just make it look nice so the neighbors don't complain.

Setback....some variation...but for the most part, you can't use more than 50% of the back 50' of your yard. The 50' # can vary depending on the size of your yard....and local codes.

Easement - This may or may not be an issue.....in my area, there is no easement per se....and I was lucky in that there is no power pole in the corner where my garage is....but, you can't build anything that would prevent a utility company from accessing the utilities for maint and service. Hence, if there is a sewer line going down the back of your yard, you can't build a permanant structure on it. Also be aware that most cities/states have laws that restrict how close you can be to a power line. In my area, I can't have a structure that would allow someone to stand on and reach the power line....sounds like common sense to me....

And think storage.....try to build enough of an attic so you can store stuff up there and out of the way....never enough storage.

Good Luck.....I know how you are feeling.....garages do that do us...

 

[1SlowFormula]

I didn't even realize I didn't have my location setup, sorry about that. I live south of the Philadelphia International Airport.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

Fatboy99 - Yeah I got that book and I'm part way though it and I also picked up one called "Build your own Garage Manual" and one called "Be your own Contractor". So I will be reading those...

 

[blkhonda1991]

i found a bunch of codes for philly online...you just gotta look a bit

http://www.amlegal.com/nxt/gateway.dll/Pennsylvania/philadelphia_pa/dat/14-205_charts.pdf?f=templates$fn=altmain-nf.htm$3.0

and it appears that you need to maintain a 8-15' side yard depending on what zone you are in

 

[AFChief]

No suggestions since I'm a newby here, but I'll take that Mustang off your hands. I'm sure you need the space.

 

[1SlowFormula]

ARGH...

I just got off the phone with the zoning inspector, nice guy and all, but I got the info I needed and it is disheartening...

The town only allows a 24X24 Garage that can only be 16' high @ the peak, and I can only take up 30% of my property with structures. If I want to go outside of that I will have to go before a zoning board and have a hearing, which if I got everything I needed right now that hearing wouldn't be until mid June. If I went the way of the hearing they would need to put the info in the paper and post one of those yellow zoning signes in the front of my house telling everyone what I was planning on doing and give them a chance to object to it. The cost of the hearing is only $300, and worth it, but I have a feeling all my neighbors (retired old nosy types) will have a fit over this...

I am actually going to head out of work early to go and take the measurements since the setbacks are 4' if I want to pay to have a survey done, or 4.5-5' if I don't want to pay to have someone survey the lot and just measure off the fence. And add to that he said it needs to be at least 20' from the house, unless I wanted to add a breezeway, then it had to be at least 8' away.

Are these types of dumb rules normal???

 

[1SlowFormula]

****, I just thought of another question...

Where do the measure the height? is it off the plans or actually off the elevation of the lot?

My lot slopes downhill slightly, and it will be 2-3' higher in the back than in the front. So if they measure @ the front I should be good with staying at or below 16' with a 3:12 slope for 24' wide structure it could have a 10' eave height, where as for the 28' wide structure I want it could only have 9' eaves. But if the measure from the back I ams screwed...

 

[sonett43]

height is usually maximum building height, so measure where the peak of your roof will be, measured to grade, usually.

do you plan on staying in this house for many years? You might be better off seeking a commercial building that is currently vacant, in south phili and surrounding areas I'd bet you could buy yourself a property for less than it would cost to build something.

Lewis

 

[jtillery]

You are definitely on the right track doing research before you even think about breaking ground. Alot of people go in blindly and run into all kinds of unexepected problems. Really the first place to start is figure out your budget, or come up with a solid plan to finance the garage. Costs really add up quick when building a garage, so you want to be make sure you are prepared for it. Once you have the budget established, I would start making a list of everything you want in a garage then go to several contractors for estimates. From there decide what work you are capable and willing to do yourself to see where you can shave costs. The more you do yourself, the cheaper it should be, but the longer it will take to finish.

Spend a couple days looking through the Garage Gallery on this site, it will give you all kinds of ideas of what you would like to incorporate into your shop. Just keep in mind, there are some amazing garages/workshops on here. I am sure there are several people that have spend $40,000 plus on a 24x24 garage, so it may not be realistic to do alot of what you see if your budget is lower.

As far as the zoning is concerned, those requirements are right in line with my area so they are probably typical. We actually can only go 24'x24' and 15' high where I live.

As far as size, always build as big as your city/budget will allow. You will be hard pressed to find anyone that says they have too much space. a 24'x24' shop can be very workable, but it will need to be well thought out. The first thing is get all non-workshop related stuff out of there, no bicycles, lawnmowers, excercise equipment, etc if you are able to build a shed on the property. The cost of the shed will be minimal compared to the garage and it will make the garage much more functional. 2nd rule is don't plan on parking daily drivers in there when you are working. If you can stick to that and keep all your tools organized you should have no problem restoring a car in that garage.

 

[jtillery]

do you plan on staying in this house for many years? You might be better off seeking a commercial building that is currently vacant, in south phili and surrounding areas I'd bet you could buy yourself a property for less than it would cost to build something.

Lewis

That is another good idea, he did mention he was concerned about resale value, so he may not be planning on staying there long term. You can either look for a building to buy or rent. I have rented shops for the last 2-3 years, it made more sense than trying to build at my house. When I decided I was ready to buy last fall, I came across a 3 bedroom house with a 3200 sq ft commercial building. The house is rented for close to $900 which pays alot of the expenses of the property, and I am setting up the 3200 sq ft to use as my shop. The only suggestion I have, is to try to find someplace as close to your home (or area you will live long term). My rented shops have been 20 minutes away and I find out never go there unless I have at least 4-5 hours to work on stuff. The shop I bought is less than 5 minutes away from home, and I continually find myself going over there even if it is to only work for 15 minutes.

 

[1SlowFormula]

I already looked into the comercial, or other space, and it would not work out for me as the closest affordable and safe place, is 20+ minutes away, and I agree it woud then be pointless as I want this for convienece of being able to run out and spend an hour on something, not driving somewhere, getting everything out, turn one wrench then have it be time to pack it all back up and drive back when I only have a free hour every now and then... So the external place is out of the question.

As for how long I will be here, we are thinking about moving in about 5-6 years, and when we do, the garage will be an item to help the sale. As for financials, I have been looking at this and saving for years, so it will probably be all cash, or very little financing, but I need to get the budget down first before I do anything. As for the contractor, nope not doing that, not even getting quotes as the added price of a contractor is out of the question. We are looking to get this done for 10K or less (concrete/structure/electrical) then I will finish the interior as time/money permits. I worked in concrete and masonry as a laborer when going to school, so I have that part covered, and whatever structure I get will be in kit form where my friends and I will put it up and my father-in-law has the electrical covered, as that is one of his hobbies. The only outsourced work will be the actual concrete finishing, and I was going to use the company I used to work for when I was working my way through school...

The budget is tight, but I can see it working out, but it means I need to plan a lot more before hand to get it a close as possible. The issue with the property, is the shed I currently have needs to be replaced, so I needed the additional space in the garage to "build in" a shed, hence that 3rd door, it was to go into an enclosed area that takes the place of the shed, if I can only go with 24X24, there would be no room for the stuff in the current shed, and speaking to the guy from the city this morning to build the garage I must remove the shed, so the more I do the math and figure out space, I realize I must try for the variance to build something bigger or there is almost no point in even trying to build anything, as I will have less room then I have now. It would **** to build a garage, just to at the end of the day have it unsable and still have **** all over the yard because I can't fit anything into it. I am getting so frustrated right now measuring things that I almost want to go just give up on it...

 

[Kevin54]

If you can add a breezeway between the house and garage to alter the plan, have you considered tearing off the carport and adding the garage to the house. You may only be able to go 24' or maybe a little wider, but you may be able to go deeper than the 24'. I have never understood why municipalities waver from a certain size if the house suddenly gets involved, but I guess it is a good thing. As far as getting everything done for $10,000.........Good luck and my hat's off to you if you can pul that one off. When you are dead set on building for that price, then Murphy's Law will kick in. "Whatever can go wrong, will go wrong" The price of concrete alone will eat up a lot of that money in a hurry. Shingles and paper will run almost $1000 by itself. Not trying to sound negative, but of all the ones that I have helped build a garage or room addition, it usually ends up almost double of what was first anticipated.

 

[1SlowFormula]

Oh I know that by doing a lot of renovations to my home and helping friends with theirs, so I know to factor in more than what it looks like. But here is what I am thinking of as far as budget:
- $3K Concrete/footer work (me doing the steel/rebar and most of the poring labor) this is just an estimation at this point, because I haven't sat down with my ex-boss and see what he will charge me, but that is based off of some of what I rememeber when working there, but I don't want to ask them for a quote until I know what size I will be building.
- $6K Structure kit, including everything needed minus doors, including delivery. This is based off the quote I have already for the larger structure, if I have to go smaller it will be cheeper.
- $1K for misc items (electrical box, breakers, cable, outlets, swithes, and etc), and rentals.

Now that is the base structure, for about 10K. Now that does not include doors, windows, insulation, floor epoxy and etc. that I want to do before ever thinking of use the garage, and that I expect to add another 3-5K to the bill, but that will be a few months down the line so I have time to research and save for that then. The 10K is to get everything ready to throw the structure up in the next month or so (or 3 months or more if I have to get the variance)...

I hope that better explains how I am attacking the budget...

 

[2level]

Like Kevin said, try to add the garage to the house. If thats not possible, I'd pay the $300 for the variance hearing or move. The 576 s.f. maximum size is BS. Our city has a max garage size of 3,000 s.f.

 

[nmk_61802]

Are these types of dumb rules normal???

Yes, these rules are very normal. I live is a small to mid size town in Central IL, and it has similar rules in place across the board, and I am even located outside city limits.

 

[1SlowFormula]

OK, so today happens to be my actual B-day and my wife woke me up with breakfast in bed and a gift, the breakfast was great, but the gift was just so unexpected. It was about the size of a book and knowing that we recently bought almost every garage book known to man since she told me that building the garage would be my b-day gift, I thought she found another book I may have missed. Even better it was 2 pads of graph paper and the information on our overall lot size so I can get the planning stuff done and submit for the permits. She said that because she couldn't wrap a garage, she wrapped up the "essence of a garage" and said happy planning...

 

[1SlowFormula]

Ok, just an update @ this point.

After measuring and staking out the back yard with different stakes representing the different sized garages I was thinking 28X30 was the original plan, but I also staked things out at 24, 26 and 28 wide by 24, 32, and 34 deep all starting in the furthes back corner allowed by local setbacks of ~4.5'...

After looking over how they fall on the property (there is also a nice shade tree out back that my wife and I want to keep), the 28' wide was just too far out, as our property is only 70' wide to begin with and that would put the inside side wall well behind the house and look "funny" and the side man door would be almost pointless as we would have to come out and make a huge S shape to get into the kitchen door (the one we mainly use), and @ 28" wide I was standing there and I could reach up/out (45*ish) and touch the branches of the shade tree, so the rear door would be unusable as well, and way too close to the tree to making any manuverability easy, and again looked funny having a garage door opening into a tree a few feet away. So with taking it back to 24' wide not only helps with zoning (slightly), but makes it "fit" the yard/property better. I am still waiting on quotes from the different kit manufacturers out there to decide if I want to go 30', 32', or 34' deep, and I will be playing with my graph paper to see how each size may work out for my needs.

As for the 30% rule for the local codes, I am golden with any of these sizes... Even doing the calculations using the largest size we are thinking of (24X34) and keeping the current shed (10X10.5) which we originally talked about geting rid of for space issues, we are ~950 s.f. shy of 30%. That is cool but also iritating, if I still have more than 900 s.f. that I could technically build with why am I limited to a 24X24 structure???

 

[1SlowFormula]

Well ****, the budget is starting to get blown out before I even started building, as I am still in the planning phase. I just got a few more quotes on kit prices and it looks like I will be lucky to get the structure up for less than 15K at this point. The average prices for a 24X34 kit is just about $8100 and not the 6K I had gotten a while back...

Oh well I guess we'll see what it costs in the end, and I shouldn't set an upper limit, and just do what I can when I can...

 

[1SlowFormula]

Well I am bringing my own thread back from the dead, that garage was never built and not really taking 2level's advise we decided to move, lol...

Actually just a few weeks following my last post in this thread above we found out my wife was pregnant with our first child, and in our family planning we realized that with starting a family we would want to move closer to her family on the west coast. We are going on 2 years later, we sold our house in Philly last August and took 3 trips cross country to get my project vehicles and our household goods out here and I started a new job in Portland Oregon about 3 months ago and we have been searching for our next house since before we made the move. One of the biggest stipulations in searching was for a garage for my hobbies or at least the ability to build one. Just yesterday we found a house we fell in love with and it is an old (1915) farmhouse that has since had a bunch of houses built around it. The house is a fixer upper, but it was renovated in the 90's when the neighborhood was built so all the wiring is newer, but when they did the renovations they built a big garage. It's not my dream garage, but I see it has a lot off potential. We put an offer in on the property yesterday, and it's a short sale property so no guarantees, but it got me thinking about having a garage again, so I am back on here doing research, lol...

I have a few pics that I might post up if I have questions, ahh heck I will post them up anyhow, I just don't have the ability to resize them on this machine so they are a little big...

 

[Zeke]

Well, maybe not a dream garage, but a garage! With a little work, that'll be a nice space. Good luck on the offer.

 

[Donnda]

Hope you get it. That garage has a ton of potential

 

[volvo]

..
Welcome to the local PNW area. Best wishes to you and the family. Hope to see you at the Portland swap meet and race track real soon.

 

[1SlowFormula]

thanks for the feedback...

well today we had the seller accept our offer, now the next (and longest) step is the banks approval of the short sale for what we offered and if they are OK with loosing the difference on the loan that the seller still owes on it... <fingers crossed>