Where exactly to install grounding rod?

[OptionalStop]

I don't have my pole barn finished yet, but the ground is very soft right now and I'd like to install my grounding rods. I would like to put them inside in the wall, underneath my panel box so my interior finish plywood will cover them, but stick out an inch above my concrete to attach the grounding wire. Is there a specific requirement for the exact location where these need to go? I know I need at least 6' apart on each of them.

 

[BillK]

Have you poured the concrete yet ? If not you should just do a ufer ground which uses the reinforcing mesh or rods in the concrete. Other than that it would be best to ask the electrical inspector. He is the one that you will have to satisfy as far as the location of the ground rods.

 

[Falcon67]

As above because in one city here, rods OR a UFER is good. In the other BOTH are required. Better find out first what's right. Personally I used 20' of #4 copper tied to the rebar in the foundation.

 

[sberry]

I like them in the eve drip edge. Unless ground water is high putting them indoors lets them dry out.

 

[alfredeneuman]

but stick out an inch above my concrete to attach the grounding wire.

If you want the rods to stick out of the concrete you'll have to use 10' rods instead of 8'. The rods are required to be driven so you have 8' in the soil.

 

[casmurbax]

I am asking for a friend. Not to hijack the tread but it is on topic of placing the ground(s)

It came to their attention the their panel in their detached garage was not properly grounded.

When they wired the garage they also installed a spare conduit from the panel to the outside of the back of the garage, it is not currently being used. This conduit run is about 36 feet from panel to the ground to the rear of the garage.

So my friend is wondering, can they now use that spare conduit and run a ground that far from the panel? It would have to be 2 rods at least 6ft apart.

I so wish my friend did an UFER.

Thanks.

 

[TRWham]

I like them in the eve drip edge. Unless ground water is high putting them indoors lets them dry out.

This is a good point, and exactly why Ufers ever became a thing as the USA built facilities in dry areas during WW2. Ground rods work just fine but they need enough moisture to promote conductivity.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

As above because in one city here, rods OR a UFER is good. In the other BOTH are required. Better find out first what's right. Personally I used 20' of #4 copper tied to the rebar in the foundation.

Ive never heard of an AHJ requiring rods in addition to a UFER which is far superior to rods.

Which cities require this and is it a written amendment? If not then they cant require it

I am asking for a friend. Not to hijack the tread but it is on topic of placing the ground(s)

It came to their attention the their panel in their detached garage was not properly grounded.

When they wired the garage they also installed a spare conduit from the panel to the outside of the back of the garage, it is not currently being used. This conduit run is about 36 feet from panel to the ground to the rear of the garage.

So my friend is wondering, can they now use that spare conduit and run a ground that far from the panel? It would have to be 2 rods at least 6ft apart.

I so wish my friend did an UFER.

Thanks.

Well theres 2 types of grounding that is required depending on when the panel was installed- grounding electrodes and equipment grounding conductor.

So when you say its not properly grounded do you mean it doesnt have rods?

 

[casmurbax]

Hi wyliesdiesels,

Thanks, it was done last year. There is no ground wire in the panel.

no rods, no UFER.



And there is a white tracer on the neutral wire, not clear in picture. This picture was taken before the insulation and sheet rocked were done.

 

[Miss the Pontiacs]

Last time I used one of these instead of a ground rod. The inspection guy said nothing so must be up to code.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Hi wyliesdiesels,

Thanks, it was done last year. There is no ground wire in the panel.

no rods, no UFER.



And there is a white tracer on the neutral wire, not clear in picture. This picture was taken before the insulation and sheet rocked were done.

Im not sure why youre saying there is no ground wire.

In the pic i can clearly see a green ground wire that goes to the ground bar on the left.

Also, it looks like the bonding screw is still in place on the neutral bar. On the neutral bar, the screw next to the large neutral lug at the top appears to be green. IF this screw is indeed bonded to the enclosure, then it needs to be removed. This is a serious violation and creates potential for shock.

 

[casmurbax]

Im not sure why youre saying there is no ground wire.

In the pic i can clearly see a green ground wire that goes to the ground bar on the left.

Also, it looks like the bonding screw is still in place on the neutral bar. On the neutral bar, the screw next to the large neutral lug at the top appears to be green. IF this screw is indeed bonded to the enclosure, then it needs to be removed. This is a serious violation and creates potential for shock.

Yes the screw is there but not screwed in, never thought to remove it to show that they are not bonded.

OK so I am dumb yes that green wire does go back to the main panel.

What I was thinking is the panel in the detached garage needs either a UFER(to late now) or grounding rods connected to it.

 

[strutaeng]

If it is detached, then yes, you need the ground rods, IN ADDITION, to the green ground from the main panel.

The rods are to protect from lightning strikes. Obviously, if a lighting strikes the garage, the electricity needs a direct path the ground (dirt), via a ground rod.

What we really need is an air terminal at the highest point of the building connected to the ground rod. That's above and beyond what the building code requires (maybe required in some other codes,) but probably still a good idea and used extensively in commercial buildings.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Yes the screw is there but not screwed in, never thought to remove it to show that they are not bonded.

OK so I am dumb yes that green wire does go back to the main panel.

What I was thinking is the panel in the detached garage needs either a UFER(to late now) or grounding rods connected to it.

you should completely remove it.

yes you need some form of grounding electrodes for lightening protection

 

[casmurbax]

Thank you for the replies.

I will remove the screw completely.

How close do the grounding electrodes need to be to the panel? When the garage was wired a spare conduit from the panel to the outside of the back of the garage was installed, it is not currently being used. This conduit run is about 36 feet from panel to the ground to the rear of the garage.

Can I use that spare conduit and run a grounding electrode wire that far from the panel? Would it would have to be 2 rods at least 6ft apart? What size wire?

Thanks again

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Thank you for the replies.

I will remove the screw completely.

How close do the grounding electrodes need to be to the panel? When the garage was wired a spare conduit from the panel to the outside of the back of the garage was installed, it is not currently being used. This conduit run is about 36 feet from panel to the ground to the rear of the garage.

Can I use that spare conduit and run a grounding electrode wire that far from the panel? Would it would have to be 2 rods at least 6ft apart? What size wire?

Thanks again

Ideally, they should be as close to the panel as possible to limit resistance to earth. 36' is too far.

the rods need to be 6' apart min. and you can use solid #6 cu.

How is your panel mounted? Can you post some pics?

 

[TheOtherChris]

What do you think about 20 feet?
Similar situation for a guy up the road. We can run #6cu about 20 feet from panel to the outside for two new rods or relocate the panel.

Ideally, they should be as close to the panel as possible to limit resistance to earth. 36' is too far.

 

[teamextreme]

Ideally, they should be as close to the panel as possible to limit resistance to earth. 36' is too far.

While this is good advice, there's not actually a code restriction on length of GEC, correct? I don't recall ever hearing that restriction.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

What is preventing both of you from putting the rods directly outside the building from where the panel is?

 

[Slowgsr]

Here in Ontario services get grounded at the point of entry only. Any sub panels are bonded back to that.

The thinking is multiple grounding points of a single service can create ground loops. However, sure makes it easier.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Here in Ontario services get grounded at the point of entry only. Any sub panels are bonded back to that.

The thinking is multiple grounding points of a single service can create ground loops. However, sure makes it easier.

Ground loops for what?

Under normal conditions, current doesnt flow on grounds so what would be looping?

 

[casmurbax]

Not creating a trip hazard, seeing how mine is on the front wall of the garage.