Where to dump sump pump?

[BioHazard]

I've decided I'm going to chisel out a little pit in my floor for a sump pump, so I can sweep/spray water and other liquids over to that area...I have a very annoying curb under all my doors that does not let any water out.

Where does one normally hook the output of a sump pump? I've never had a basement or anything where I needed to install one. I could just run a hose out back but I'm guessing that sort of thing from a garage floor is frowned upon? Can I tee it into the drain on my big tub sink, above the P-trap, sort of like a dishwasher discharge? Am I "allowed" to send that into the sewer without some sort of grease trap or something?

 

[hetkind]

you could call your local building inspector and ask his advice but I suspect from a garage, he would request some sort of oil/water seperator and perhaps a building permit.

How about just notching a curb or drilling a drain hole? that might be an easier solution.

Howard

 

[Jonathan]

In most places you are not allowed to discharge a sump pump into city sewage lines as there is a cost involved in treating, cleaning water.
The best thing to do is have it drain onto your lawn provided you have some slope to make the water run away from the house. It is ideal to bury a drain line under your yard and run it to a ditch.
I have run 400' of 4" corrugated pipe to my pond.

 

[Az Scooter]

The clean water act of 1972 gives some guidelines on what is, and is not allowable discharges to the waters of the United States. You cannot legally discharge any water off of private property in to the waters of the United States. This includes Ravines, rivers, streams, gutters, storm drains, etc. No off property discharge. Though there is a cost involved in processing sanitary sewer water, it is generally accepted that you can discharge small amounts of water, up to what you pay your water bill for, into the sanitary sewer at no cost. There are typically guidelines of what is allowable, and what is not. For instance, they typically do not want particles larger than 400 microns, which is actually pretty big, discharged to a sanitary sewer. They also do not oily water, with a sheen, or residue floating oil, discharged to a sanitary sewer. The sheen is easily taken care of with oil booms or socks.
You can, usually discharge some waste water to areas around your home, as long as it does not go into anything that could potentially be public waters. So, for instance, you can discharge to your landscaping, but not to a pond that has an outlet.
I have spoken at 2 different professional conferences in the past year on this subject, and written multiple articles. So, many in an industry where this is a huge issue, think I know what I am talking about.

 

[mhm993]

dry well.

and 10 letters

 

[lawfarm]

As the posts above note, there are two directions:

1. The Lawful Answer: Talk to your building inspector and find out that what you want to do is probably prohibited (or cost-prohibitive). Even if you don't have a building inspector, talk to the county health department or equivalent. I guarantee that there is someone in local government who can tell you the regulations applicable in your neck of the woods.

2. The Less than Lawful Answer: The other suggestions posted above (drain to daylight, dry well, etc.).

 

[TheGrooveking]

I am pretty sure you will be told the following:

You'll need at minimum a triple basin to be installed. This is a series of in floor tanks with overflow wares built in, these are designed to capture the oils and greases, then this will be connected to a sanitary sewer. It will not be allowed to be discharged to a storm sewer or drained onto your property.

TheGrooveking

 

[Torque1st]

You can purchase a diamond wheel to go on your angle grinder that will remove those curbs in front of the door.

 

[BioHazard]

Ugh...I hate playing code games like this. Just so we're clear - this is the same water I would mop up, and dump into the sink...or just sweep outside if it wasn't for the curb. The pump is the only thing that gets the code involved...which is kind of silly.

Part of the issue is that outside my shop is entirely covered in asphalt, which drains into the storm sewer, which dumps into the "creek" in the ravine behind my shop. It's not a natural creek, it's listed as a storm sewer by the city. If I just dumped my pump into the parking lot, it would be the same as if I swept the water out into the parking lot. There is no "dirt" I can drain into.

At this point I think I may just put a hose into the tub sink, no connection. I don't feel the need to get any inspectors involved in this. Most water that ends up on my floor came out of the city water lines, and I pay for sewage in proportion to the water I use.

You can purchase a diamond wheel to go on your angle grinder that will remove those curbs in front of the door.

Yeah, I've been thinking about getting rid of it. I think it was poured on top of the main slab, so it may just chip right off. I need to make sure my roll up door is tall enough though, and I want to refinish/resurface the floor in some way in the future so I'll probably take out the curb then.

 

[35mastr]

I would not call any inspectors to your shop. As they will be looking around for stuff that they can get you on. Put the pump where you want and add the drain hose to the best spot possible where its not visible and wont be tripped over.

 

[BioHazard]

Damn...I took some measurements tonight, and my door won't be tall enough if I take out the curb. It's like 4" tall. I think it was designed originally to contain something hazardous...though I have no idea what it was built for.

I'll probably end up grinding a few drain slots into it though...

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Damn...I took some measurements tonight, and my door won't be tall enough if I take out the curb. It's like 4" tall. I think it was designed originally to contain something hazardous...though I have no idea what it was built for.

I'll probably end up grinding a few drain slots into it though...

You mean you have to drive over a 4" curb to get your car in and out of your garage? Thats crazy.

Charles

 

[BioHazard]

You mean you have to drive over a 4" curb to get your car in and out of your garage? Thats crazy.

Charles

Yeah, think speed bump - only sharper. This door is in a bad place anyway, I'd like to put another roll up on the side for MUCH easier access.

 

[Torque1st]

4 inch curbs.

I pictured some little 1/2" curbs like I have seen before in places.

When you shut the doors and turn off the lights at night does the place glow???

Curbs can be removed by slicing them with a concrete saw then breaking out the slices.

You could lower the door header with some additional material on the underside to make up the gap.

 

[BioHazard]

LOL, the place was built in '97, so I don't consider the concrete floor THAT old...but damn, it's been well used! It was a paint/body shop before I moved in, although they weren't concerned about codes because everything they did was illegal. I think the original reason for the curb might have been because of the creek/storm sewer out back. (industrial area, codes can be ridiculous...)

My biggest issue right now is I lease the shop, lease is up in a few months and I'm going to talk about buying it. *IF* I do that, then I'd like to build my shop out another 10' or so, which would get rid of this curb and door entirely. I'm not too fond of the door, either...

 

[a4daddywagon]

Depending on the local authority, you are not supposed to discharge naturally occurring water (storm water, ground water, etc.) into the sanitary sewer as this would overload the handling facilities when it rains. Some older cities, such as Philadelphia, have a combined sanitary/storm sewer system.
To answer your question: yes, you can most definitely tie your proposed sump pump into your sanitary system. Make sure that you don't tie in at a point that is too restricted for the discharge flow-rate. A lot of sump pumps have a 2" discharge on them and per code you are not allowed to "neck down" on any sanitary piping (in the direction of flow). I would suggest piping up from your sump pump with a check valve (in the vertical) and than tying into the trap arm (section of pipe after the p-trap). The check valve will keep a slug of water sitting on top of the pump and will keep sewer gases from entering your shop. By tying into the sanitary piping after the trap you will not risk drawing your mop-sink trap dry. Sorry for the long answer.

 

[sdowney717]

Many cars drip oil as you go down the road. Some a lot some very little. I will bet that if you could add it all up over time, it would be a lot of oil going into the waterways. You know the environment cleans itself, bacteria eat the oil.
Why not go after the manufacturers to make better seals.
The whole discussion seems silly. Someones personal garage is not an area for enviro types to be nitpicking about.

 

[BioHazard]

Make sure that you don't tie in at a point that is too restricted for the discharge flow-rate. A lot of sump pumps have a 2" discharge on them and per code you are not allowed to "neck down" on any sanitary piping (in the direction of flow).

Good point about sucking the water out of the sink trap, I didn't think about that. I was thinking about a sump pump like this from HF:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=94651

Obviously this isn't protecting anything from flooding, so no reason to spend a ton of money on it. I'm thinking maybe I'll just make a pit area in the floor, with no pump or plumbing. Then I can just drop in the pump whenever I want and drop a hose in the sink. *cough* I mean what sump pump?

Someones personal garage is not an area for enviro types to be nitpicking about.

I agree, the ridiculous part is that I can do whatever I want out in the parking lot, and it will just drip directly into the storm sewer. But if I let it drip inside, and then try and put it in the storm sewer...that's illegal.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I wouldn't do anything til you "buy" the place.

 

[Az Scooter]

Many cars drip oil as you go down the road. Some a lot some very little. I will bet that if you could add it all up over time, it would be a lot of oil going into the waterways. You know the environment cleans itself, bacteria eat the oil.
Why not go after the manufacturers to make better seals.
The whole discussion seems silly. Someones personal garage is not an area for enviro types to be nitpicking about.

Yep, you are right, that is the way it is. Unfortunately, the way it really works is that we have nanny's trying to control everything productive that is accomplished. Really, control is what comes down to, and they want it, and obtain it through the government.

 

[rsanter]

dry well.

and 10 letters

thats what I was thinking

bob