Where to get plans?

[LesterTheNightfly]

I’m glad I stumbled across this site. I’m hoping to find a lot of resources here to answer questions I have (and don’t yet know that I have).

Here’s my first question: Are the online “plans” generally a good idea? I’m looking at this one, but it’s still not exactly what I want. If not, what are my other options?

This is basically what I’m looking for, but I would do a straight gable. The key lacking component in the plans I’m seeing is the 2nd floor wall that is approximately 4’ high which the roof framing rests on. So, the 2nd story floor is the full dimension of the bottom portion of the garage, though its ceiling is not due to the intrusion of the truss/rafters. I’m assuming the roof framing needs to be stick built with a collar tie, but maybe there’s a truss out there with no bottom chord that would work (if anyone wants to weigh in on this I’d appreciate your insight). Anyone seen plans like I’m looking for?

Here’s an Arial with the circle being where the garage would be.

No plumbing or HVAC, just electric. I’m thinking about 22’ wide by 24-26’ deep. The main purpose is a general purpose shop plus lawnmower, bicycle, etc. storage. We have a 2 car attached garage, but at only 24’ wide by 21’ deep you can barely shoehorn in a spare sheet of paper once our vehicles are parked.
I’m planning to complete as much of it as I can by myself. However, being new to the area it’ll be more challenging (no friends to ask for help). I’ve received a few bids for the slab. I plan to frame the walls myself and hire a non-finish carpenter for a day (Angie’s list provides options at $250). I may have found a roofer who will sub out stick building the roof structure, because at 10/12 or so I can assure you I’m not fooling with that (I’ve nearly come off of 10/12s before, and that was enough for me).

 

[Modoc]

Lester, just google garage plans and you will have lots of options for plans, one of the ones that I found had some nice choices was behmdesign.com

 

[LesterTheNightfly]

Thanks for the behmdesign recommendation. Unfortunately, I can't find what I'm looking for there, i.e. a 2nd story with a 4' high wall that the roof rests on like the one below:

If I can't find any plans like this, what are my options? From what I've read about plan modification, it's pretty darned expensive--but I bet it's cheaper than a scratch plan. Any thoughts. Anyone seen something similar to what I'm after?

 

[mikefromme]

You need to hire a contractor.

 

[LesterTheNightfly]

I do?

 

[mikefromme]

It would be for the best, you really have no idea what you are proposing to do. If you did you wouldn't be asking these questions.

 

[LesterTheNightfly]

Thanks for the encouragement. Asking about plans means I have no idea what I'm proposing to do? Wow. I hope others in this community are less judgmental than you. I've done everything I'm planning to do before on other projects, but I've already had plans to work from in those cases. This is the first time I've needed to secure plans. To date I haven't seen any off the shelf plans that work for me. So, I want to consider my options before proceeding. To consider my options, I'm soliciting the input of the community here. If soliciting the community for options before proceeding means I have no idea what I'm proposing to do, then I guess I misunderstood the nature of this forum.

When you say "hire a contractor," I'm left to assume that you're referring to a GC, because hiring a contractor without plans (remember, as both the title and content suggest, I'm asking for plan advice) as you suggest, is foolhardy at best. A good GC is worth his/her weight in gold, but they're hard to come by and even more difficult to find when you're new to the community (as I noted in my original post). For the record, through my job I've had the misfortune of dealing with more contractors than I can begin to remember throughout the country (though I've mainly worked in the southeast, Midwest, and northeast) who couldn't get a dog house built correctly. Hiring a contractor is no guarantee that anything is going to be done correctly, to code, to plan, or to what was agreed to.

Can anyone else help?

 

[Flexia]

If you do plan to do the work your self or act as general contractor you need to hire an architect for your plans. It may be a bit more then you want to spend but in the long run it will make the project go smother for every other step including getting permits. And you will be able to build exactly what you want. You may even be able to find an architect that will do it as a side/cash project for you since it's relatively simple.

 

[woodrail]

Sounds to me you know what you want, but don't have "plans" for it.

I bet you could find a CADD guy on your local craigslist to draft up what you are looking for, but it might cost you a couple of hundred.

Also, don't expect "stamped" or "engineered" documents for that price. They will probably be good for handing to your contractor or they MIGHT get you a permit depending on you local authority.

I'd go talk to them first and determine the requirements.

 

[LesterTheNightfly]

If you do plan to do the work your self or act as general contractor you need to hire an architect for your plans. It may be a bit more then you want to spend but in the long run it will make the project go smother for every other step. And you will be able to build exactly what you want.

Thanks, Flexia. This is the conclusion I'm slowly reaching at this point.

I've reached out to the builder of the structure I referenced to see if I can purchase the plans from them. We'll see what happens there.

 

[Flexia]

Also check local codes first as far as garages go. Some may want a stamped set of plans. If they want them stamped it may be hard to get the plans that you buy online stamped by an engineering.

 

[LesterTheNightfly]

Sounds to me you know what you want, but don't have "plans" for it.

I bet you could find a CADD guy on your local craigslist to draft up what you are looking for, but it might cost you a couple of hundred.

Also, don't expect "stamped" or "engineered" documents for that price. They will probably be good for handing to your contractor or they MIGHT get you a permit depending on you local authority.

I'd go talk to them first and determine the requirements.

DanB, great points. I could build the structure in Xactimate in full plan detail in 20-30 minutes. However, I'm not competent to design structures. So, like you said, maybe several hundred gets it done for local permits, etc.. That would be a near ideal solution. I'll keep an eye on this option.

 

[LesterTheNightfly]

Also check local codes first as far as garages go. Some may want a stamped set of plans. If they want them stamped it may be hard to get the plans that you buy online stamped by an engineering.

Thanks! That's a specific question I'll pose to the county shortly--because it affects everything right now.

The last permits I pulled (for a den, bathroom, bedroom, addl HVAC) resulted in a very friendly, but professional, inspector talking to me ahead of time about what would and wouldn't fly. That was an invaluable 15 minutes for both of us as all the inspections went perfectly. He actually said he wished contractors did work like I did. However. This is a new community and I have no idea what to expect. Thanks again for your input to clarify what plans they will accept!

 

[Falcon67]

You need to hire a contractor.

For a 22x24 - bah.

LOL - find a close plan and modify it. Buy some books and study up
http://www.amazon.com/dp/1561589675/?tag=atomicindus08-20

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1580114431/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Get your slab poured, get some lumber, grab a hammer and saw and get after it. You can't screw things up so bad you can't hire someone to fix it - and bets are if you study your subject it'll come out just fine.

IMHO - do 24x24 if possible, especially if you'll think you ever have a vehicle inside. It also works out well on exterior dimensions and lumber. You can span 24' with 2x12 if you choose - but if you insist on a 10/12 pitch probably trusses are a better idea and easier to erect.

 

[KELLHAMMER]

As a architect, I design lots of garages for people who don't know what they want. I understand the process of asking all the right questions to help develop a design for your needs. My suggestion would be to ask around for name of an architect, who is a sole practitioner, who practices in your area. They will be familiar with all the zoning and building codes ,as well as, deed restrictions that will affect your project.
A draftsman most likely will not. Online plans can be hit or miss, and can lack required information to actually build anything. The good ones can cost as much as just working directly with an architect. If you looking for some creative solutions an architect is the way to go.

 

[mikefromme]

Thanks for the encouragement. Asking about plans means I have no idea what I'm proposing to do? Wow. I hope others in this community are less judgmental than you. I've done everything I'm planning to do before on other projects, but I've already had plans to work from in those cases. This is the first time I've needed to secure plans. To date I haven't seen any off the shelf plans that work for me. So, I want to consider my options before proceeding. To consider my options, I'm soliciting the input of the community here. If soliciting the community for options before proceeding means I have no idea what I'm proposing to do, then I guess I misunderstood the nature of this forum.

When you say "hire a contractor," I'm left to assume that you're referring to a GC, because hiring a contractor without plans (remember, as both the title and content suggest, I'm asking for plan advice) as you suggest, is foolhardy at best. A good GC is worth his/her weight in gold, but they're hard to come by and even more difficult to find when you're new to the community (as I noted in my original post). For the record, through my job I've had the misfortune of dealing with more contractors than I can begin to remember throughout the country (though I've mainly worked in the southeast, Midwest, and northeast) who couldn't get a dog house built correctly. Hiring a contractor is no guarantee that anything is going to be done correctly, to code, to plan, or to what was agreed to.

Can anyone else help?

Maybe you should look somewhere besides Angie's list for day labor carpenters

Really it's not complicated to build what you want.... Rectangle wall, floor trusses or ibeams for the 2nd floor, 4' knee wall, 2x10 rafters 16" on center and 2x8 collar ties in the lower third of the rafter. Basic carpentry 101.

 

[DekeT]

Maybe you should look somewhere besides Angie's list for day labor carpenters

Really it's not complicated to build what you want.... Rectangle wall, floor trusses or ibeams for the 2nd floor, 4' knee wall, 2x10 rafters 16" on center and 2x8 collar ties in the lower third of the rafter. Basic carpentry 101.

I think this is why the other guy suggested hiring a contractor. This project is very, very simple. Basic carpentry book will have more than enough info for this. When I see that people have not done what I consider basic homework on a subject I question their ability and resolve for the rest of it.

 

[woodrail]

Hope no one minds me disagreeing!

This is not a "simple build" or "carpentry 101" We are talking a 1 1/2" story structure clearspaning over 20 feet with a staircase.

Want to see the possibilities? Go find the other thread today where they guy mismeasured his height and screwed up the stairs.

This isn't rocket science, but it's not like your ordering a bunk of wood and swinging hammers without thinking it out.

You guys make it sound like the OP doesn't know how to build. I'm thinking the opposite, he know exactly how to build but wants plans.

The guy is looking for advice and you tell him he should get advice. Thats helpful.

 

[LesterTheNightfly]

Maybe you should look somewhere besides Angie's list for day labor carpenters

Really it's not complicated to build what you want.... Rectangle wall, floor trusses or ibeams for the 2nd floor, 4' knee wall, 2x10 rafters 16" on center and 2x8 collar ties in the lower third of the rafter. Basic carpentry 101.

This is why you said I have no idea what I'm proposing to do? Because I mentioned Angie's List? As previously noted, I'm new to the area. I don't have any friends to ask to help with an undertaking like this. I mentioned one source I'd checked, e.g. Angie's List, not all the possible options for sourcing carpenters or even all the options I'd checked from 500 miles away. The crux of this thread is not to demonstrate &/or discuss extensive labor sourcing options, but to solicit options for plans. This, if nothing else, should have been clear by now.

It is an easy build--far easier than I've done in the past. It's a rectangle with a straight gable. However, you declared I needed a contractor--evidently based on a single data point. By the way, 2x10 rafters 16" o.c. seem a little big to me for a rafter length of around 15', but, again, I don't claim to be competent to design structures.

I'll run your "Basic carpentry 101" notes by the HOA & the county for permits--I'm sure they'll be satisfied I've demonstrated due diligence.

You've been a huge distraction while providing not a single bit of help. Please just stop responding to this thread.

 

[sands35]

You can get trusses that do what (I think) you want. They are called "Attic trusses".

(top of google - no affiliation)

http://design.medeek.com/resources/truss/trussgallery.html

If you are in an area that has inspectors, they will likely want to see the specs on the trusses.

Your linked plan uses a gable as the stair well. No reason why the stairs can't be in the middle of the back wall. Though you need to think about adding ~4 feet to the depth. It won't cost that much more and you will have more clearance for a car with the stairs.

I don't think you need an architect, but I would suggest that you need a contractor who does garages for a living. A garage isn't "hard", but it is so much faster to pay somebody who has the correct equipment and extra hands. Time is worth something, if only for more time with wife and kids.

For something like this, trusses are ordered given your location, design and load requirements. Yes, they can be engineered by an architect, but most of the time just ordered from a truss company or big box retailer.

I would also suggest that your garage have the same basic style as your house. Different sloped roofs and other trim will detract from the curb appeal of your house.

I had a contractor build my garage up to water tight and rough inspection. I did the electrical, heat and am working on the drywall now. (I did pay to have a gas line run and hooked up the heater). It took 2 weeks from ground breaking to water tight. If money is tight, that will get you a garage pretty fast and "done" at a reasonable price.

I paid about the same for a contractor as I would have if I did the GC work myself. Mainly because (I think) he was equipped to do only garages. (His only power equipment was a skid loader, a compactor, and a concrete skimmer.) A lot of the other contractors had a lot more equipment to pay a debt on and their price reflected that.

Basically I paid $18k for the work.

or I could have paid:

$7k foundation
$9k for a garage "kit" and spent the next 4 months putting it together.

 

[DekeT]

Ok, I will offer something in the form of questions and observations. YMMV. Do you own the corner lot? Does your sub have a HOA? Most subdivision lots I have been associated with have much smaller maximum allowed size accessory buildings(by zoning ordinance) than you are planning. Closer to 200-300 sq ft instead of 528+ you are contemplating. A building that size on your tiny lot is going to look like #@%&!

 

[LesterTheNightfly]

When I see that people have not done what I consider basic homework on a subject I question their ability and resolve for the rest of it.

Who, specifically, is "people" in your comment?

 

[LesterTheNightfly]

For a 22x24 - bah.

LOL - find a close plan and modify it. Buy some books and study up
http://www.amazon.com/dp/1561589675/?tag=atomicindus08-20

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1580114431/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Get your slab poured, get some lumber, grab a hammer and saw and get after it. You can't screw things up so bad you can't hire someone to fix it - and bets are if you study your subject it'll come out just fine.

IMHO - do 24x24 if possible, especially if you'll think you ever have a vehicle inside. It also works out well on exterior dimensions and lumber. You can span 24' with 2x12 if you choose - but if you insist on a 10/12 pitch probably trusses are a better idea and easier to erect.

This was my initial plan. As has been pointed out, it's not exactly a difficult build by much of any standard. However, even to get permits I'm going to need to submit a plan. The HOA will require a plan. Also, should I elect to hire a GC or subs I'll need plans (or the problem is mine, not theirs). The problem with trusses for me in this application is the bottom chord. Since I'm working with a short wall on the second floor the bottom chord doesn't work. Even a scissor truss, were I to bump up to a 12/12, would have about a 6/12 slope for the ceiling--and with walls starting at 4ish feet that would be a low ceiling! I need to do rafters. The 24x24 would be better than 22x24. I'll keep that in mind. Thanks.

 

[38Chevy454]

Agree that you need to verify with any HOA or zoning what you can build. Then get a local architect to draw it up, meeting the local requirements. These are probably engineering stamped plans and will go far to getting successful building permit and final sign-off.

It has nothing to do with your build skills, or if you are your own general contractor, or whatever. It has to do with sufficient details so you can start out right and end up with the desired final result.

PS - go as big as you can, it will always be too small after you get it finished.

 

[DekeT]

Who, specifically, is "people" in your comment?

When you put something of a question out there on the interwebs you cannot control the responses. You no longer own it. Nothing about it is personal. You chastised another poster because you thought his response was distracting. It's your job, not others, to stay on course and take what info you can glean from a response. You get what you get, don't complain.

 

[LesterTheNightfly]

You can get trusses that do what (I think) you want. They are called "Attic trusses".

(top of google - no affiliation)

http://design.medeek.com/resources/truss/trussgallery.html

If you are in an area that has inspectors, they will likely want to see the specs on the trusses.

Your linked plan uses a gable as the stair well. No reason why the stairs can't be in the middle of the back wall. Though you need to think about adding ~4 feet to the depth. It won't cost that much more and you will have more clearance for a car with the stairs.

I don't think you need an architect, but I would suggest that you need a contractor who does garages for a living. A garage isn't "hard", but it is so much faster to pay somebody who has the correct equipment and extra hands. Time is worth something, if only for more time with wife and kids.

For something like this, trusses are ordered given your location, design and load requirements. Yes, they can be engineered by an architect, but most of the time just ordered from a truss company or big box retailer.

I would also suggest that your garage have the same basic style as your house. Different sloped roofs and other trim will detract from the curb appeal of your house.

I had a contractor build my garage up to water tight and rough inspection. I did the electrical, heat and am working on the drywall now. (I did pay to have a gas line run and hooked up the heater). It took 2 weeks from ground breaking to water tight. If money is tight, that will get you a garage pretty fast and "done" at a reasonable price.

I paid about the same for a contractor as I would have if I did the GC work myself. Mainly because (I think) he was equipped to do only garages. (His only power equipment was a skid loader, a compactor, and a concrete skimmer.) A lot of the other contractors had a lot more equipment to pay a debt on and their price reflected that.

Basically I paid $18k for the work.

or I could have paid:

$7k foundation
$9k for a garage "kit" and spent the next 4 months putting it together.

Thanks for the suggestion on the attic truss. Those trusses do work pretty well to keep as much storage space as possible within a truss context, and I am using the 2nd floor for storage. The problem for me, in this situation, with trusses is the bottom chord because I'm just planning a low wall for the 2nd floor.

Great suggestion on the garage having the same basic style as the house. That's already in the works. In fact, I've factored a lean to style metal roof on the garage’s right elevation that will visually compliment the wrap around porch on the dwelling.

I was and still am considering taking over once the structure is framed and roofed. We'll see. It's not so much that money is tight as much as contractors, in the past, have almost always let me down with shortcuts and generally being dumbfoundingly unknowledgeable about construction best practices, etc. Plus, we're doing the Dave Ramsey deal of being completely debt free, including mortgage, within 10 years. So, I need to retain as much of this project as I can. I’m sure there will be times when I wish I had your common sense and got it completed to a point and took over from there. ☺ I hope you love it. It sounds great.

 

[LesterTheNightfly]

Ok, I will offer something in the form of questions and observations. YMMV. Do you own the corner lot? Does your sub have a HOA? Most subdivision lots I have been associated with have much smaller maximum allowed size accessory buildings(by zoning ordinance) than you are planning. Closer to 200-300 sq ft instead of 528+ you are contemplating. A building that size on your tiny lot is going to look like #@%&!

Why do you have to be so hateful?

Look around the satellite view a little longer. You’ll see at least 3 other detached garages in that small slice of the neighborhood. That’s an old image. Currently I bet 1/3 of the homes have detached garages there, and the picture I posted of the desired garage is from the model home—it’s positioned in exactly the same place on the model home lot as its going to be on mine. The builder would do it for about $65/SF—way too high in my opinion.

As far as your opinion that it looks, well, I won’t use your words, but let’s just say bad. Did you forget what forum you’re on? There's no call for insulting my lot.

 

[mikefromme]

While I believe, based on the questions you are asking, that you are in over your head I have taken the liberty of preparing plans based on your specifications.

I would suggest you take the builder up on his quote of $65 a foot. Remember you are not only paying for what he does but what he knows. Of course you could ask for free help on the internet, but you generally get what you pay for.


PM me and we can arrange payment.

 

[LesterTheNightfly]

Agree that you need to verify with any HOA or zoning what you can build. Then get a local architect to draw it up, meeting the local requirements. These are probably engineering stamped plans and will go far to getting successful building permit and final sign-off.

It has nothing to do with your build skills, or if you are your own general contractor, or whatever. It has to do with sufficient details so you can start out right and end up with the desired final result.

PS - go as big as you can, it will always be too small after you get it finished.

I agree with all your comments. The garage picture I posted is from the model home in my neighborhood. It works for the county and the HOA--but I don't have plans for it. I think I can buy them from the builder, but it's not for sure. If I can, that solves a lot of problems... but they aren't in a hurry to return my calls so I have to look at my options.

 

[LesterTheNightfly]

While I believe, based on the questions you are asking, that you are in over your head I have taken the liberty of preparing plans based on your specifications.

I would suggest you take the builder up on his quote of $65 a foot. Remember you are not only paying for what he does but what he knows. Of course you could ask for free help on the internet, but you generally get what you pay for.


PM me and we can arrange payment.

Ah, I now understand why you hold yourself in such high regard. I especially like the 14' door. That's a nice touch.

Edited to add I also like the 12/10 roof. I guess you work on a metric "10" base. Are you Canadian by chance?

 

[woodrail]

I've seen a few assholish things on this site, but damn.

Maybe you had a lot of money on Wisconson?

 

[LesterTheNightfly]

DanB, I hope trust that comment wasn't directed at me. And for the record, I'm more of a NCAAF fan. Roll Tide!

I appreciate your comments and helpful suggestions.

Switching gears, I mean, what did I do wrong? I just was hoping for a little help with plan suggestions. I'm trying to be civil in my responses.

 

[mikefromme]

Seriously, you are taking this too seriously.

Draw up a cross section on graph paper add a plot plan with setbacks and 99% of the time you will get a permit. Or they will tell you what to do or change to get a permit.

The builder isn't interested in selling plans because most likely he sees you as someone who is trying to save a few bucks by contracting a garage yourself... Most people that try to diy a garage either won't or are unable to pay what the plans are worth.

If you really can't figure out how to draw the plans go to the county and pull the file for the garage you want to copy... The plans are publics record. Of course if you can't just copy them as that would be unethical.

 

[Ross/Kzoo]

You say that you are new to the community. Is there a builder in the existing or previous community that you know and trust? It isn't rocket science but there are tricks of the trade and tips that they can provide ( I take it that you plan on doing it yourself). If there is a local builder that you can trust you could have them erect the shell and do the concrete and you could finish it.

 

[woodrail]

My comment was directed at what I consider an insulting drawing.

I think I'm done with this thread. Good luck with your build. It sounds cool.

 

[radrush]

I've seen a few assholish things on this site, but damn.

He's got the little stick-figure dude saying, "How do I use a hammer?"

OUCH!

 

[Ross/Kzoo]

He's got the little stick-figure dude saying, "How do I use a hammer?"

OUCH!

Maybe they should breathalyzers on computer keyboards.

I was referring to post by mikefromme.

 

[mikefromme]

Edited to add I also like the 12/10 roof. I guess you work on a metric "10" base. Are you Canadian by chance?

So you've now established that once you procure the plans you won't know how to read them


Let me google that for you

 

[bams50]

So you've now established that once you procure the plans you won't know how to read them


Let me google that for you

What could you possibly gain by being a ******** to a complete stranger, and a new member at that?

Lester- I don't have anything to offer you. I opened the thread hoping to learn a little. But keep in mind, hurting people hurt people. Rather than work on their lives, some medicate their failures by picking at strangers hidden behind a computer. Try not to take it personally.

On another note- how close does the guy in the drawing look like you? LOL

 

[Tejaas]

Lesterthenightfly:

I apologize on behalf of the guy here with no social graces. He is apparently a D-bag and we should all take the opportunity to feel sympathy for anyone he comes into contact with on any given day.

Rest assured that he does not represent the general attitude of other GJ members.

Judging by the intricate artwork he produced, he has nothing better to do with his free time than bag on forum members needing help... Hopefully he will have a "desperate cry for help" moment and actually exterminate himself without leaving a mess for others to clean up... I mean seriously, if you can't be polite, what could you possibly have to offer, ya know?

I have seen more courtesy shown to a complete stranger by people living in 3rd world countries who sleep on dirt floors.

I hope you get the kinks hammered out, and we look forward to seeing your completed project!

¡Hasta Luego!




~Tejaas~

WTB: Snap-On Orange Hard Handle SDD6 & SSDP63 in Very Good Condition!