Where Will Crafstman Tools Land?

[BonzoHansen]

All i know is i just got a few things warrantied and have a few things left.

 

[T45]

Also, the rumors are flying around that Sears is about to fold. Potential buyers have to be thinking that they might be better off to just wait and buy Craftsman out of bankruptcy, in order to get a better deal.

This is the key step. Once in bankruptcy, the new buyer can buy the assets of cman-- and not the liabilities. If the deal is done as a going concern, the liabilities come with the assets and are no separableble. The benefit of the first approach is a 'goodwill' warrantee is possible where they will likely make things rght in many cases but will not be legally on the hook for scammer and ebay trolls to take advantage of.

Pretty sure the SK/Ideal deal was done along those lines. In some respects, that is the ultmate purpose of the bankruptcy law--to allow the going concern a path to viability for the asset base (and hopefully keep some jobs), without being strangled be the bad decisions of the previous owners.

Time will tell how much all of that is worth and to whom. The post-war economy and social structure that made craftsman the institution that it is no longer exists. The people who are into tools today seem less and less driven my need--less and less people do their own work today vs 30-40 years ago. And the hobbyists and pro's that aren't driven by "basic need" are driven by performance and service that sears has long ago lost. The ones driven soley by low cost are also not what the brand was bult around, so that seems like a losing path forward.

 

[-Brent-]

I wouldn't warranty any of my old Cman tools because whatever you'd get in return is garbage. I replaced nearly all my Cman ratchets (save for my junkyard bag) and a vintage one I never use and the junkyard bag one would get replaced with anything but Craftsman when it breaks.

People worrying about returning tools BEFORE their demise don't realize something, their demise was over a decade ago. They just hang around for whatever reason treading water while competitors fight for who isn't the worst.

 

[L5wolvesf]

This is the key step. Once in bankruptcy, the new buyer can buy the assets of cman-- and not the liabilities. If the deal is done as a going concern, the liabilities come with the assets and are no separable.

Exactly, you beat me to it.

 

[zendriver]

Walmart... Unfortunately.

No way IMO, will Walmart ever sell and support products with lifetime warranties.

 

[6PTsocket]

This. It'll just go the way of Skil or Rockwell power tools. Even Fowler or SPI

Skill is Bosch's low end consumer line, competing with B&D. They have been cheap stuff for many years. The only exception is their geared circular saw. Which Rockwell are you talking about. Nort American Rockwell owned Delta and Porter cable for a while and it was a low point for the brands. After some corporate musical chairs Stanley owns Porter Cable and sold Delta to a Taiwanese co., Chang Type, that builds the table saws here. The current Rockwell is an unrelated company that bought the rights to the name and builds a limited line of tools that are decent quality. Porter Cable is being sold as a big box brand but I don't know that it is much worse than it's sister brand DeWalt.


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[6PTsocket]

Sears will soon be gone. Likely Craftsman, Kenmore and Die Hard will live on. The real question is what about the independent Sears stores. In my area there are a lot of independently owned Sears stores that sale appliances, TV/stereo equipment, vacuum cleaners, Craftsman tools and mowers. What will become of these stores?

I would sorely miss the one near me. It is a grearlt source for all kinds of hardware like springs and knobs and corks and srain reliefs and shower door hardware and dress screws and all manner of hard to find stuff. Beyond that I could care less.

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[Infinia]

Tools are just a subset of manufacturing AND that ship has done sailed.
who really cares > tools are cheap, the replacement parts are what is overpriced.

 

[6PTsocket]

Lowes has Kobalt tools..........does Home Depot (or Menards) have a house brand hand tool line?

Husky hand tools and Rigid and Ryobi power tools. The exception is the red Rigid stuff that Emerson makes for general distribution and is not exclusive to HD.

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[ckadams00]

Everyone on here wants to complain but no one has suggested that we band together as a GJ limited partnership, post up a Kickstater and raise enough money to buy CM and then make the tools in the US and honor the warranty. And we'll store all the inventory at Harry Epstein, and ask them to draw doodles on all the mail order packages.

I don't have all the details worked out yet, obviously.

 

[6PTsocket]

Walmart... Unfortunately.

I've seen almost 100% of the American bicycle industry go overseas in the last 15 years- more so, the last 8-10 years though.

Short story. Schwinn and Mongoose bikes were widely known. The baby boomers knew Schwinn. Gen-X knows Mongoose.
Schwinn filed for bankruptcy and didn't exist for one year (late 80's I believe). They were bought up and high end bikes came out of their facilities. They (along with GT, same owner) went bankrupt again in 2000'ish. Pacific bought Schwinn/GT and then Mongoose in a separate deal.

Uncertain of the future, Schwinn went to department stores and went retro with the beach cruiser and chopper look. Mongoose went to the department store also since Gen-X was at that age of having kids. Since more families go to W than the LBS (local bike shop) they get recognized a lot more.

Pacific however decided to come out with Mongoose Pro for the shops. It was a failure. Customers would say "Walmart has the same bike for $89, not $250". Despite us explaining the difference, the customer saw "a black bmx with a giro". What they didn't get was the double butted chro-moly frame, 3 piece cranks, double wall rims, 3 cross spokes for a stronger wheel, Teflon coated cables and housing (no rust)...

The point? Schwinn and Mongoose aren't bike companies ran by riders with a passion anymore. Instead it's name recognition sold by marketeers slapped on Pacific cycles for the most money they can get for a POS bike with a past good name on it.

This will happen to Craftsman too.

The Craftsman name is long gone among those with more than a passing interest in tools. The people that are in the market for junk will buy anything that is cheap and has the tools they want and they are not overly concerned about brand. " Look Margret, twenty five wrenches for ten bucks" They will forget about Craftsman fast enough.

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[6PTsocket]

QFT. I haven't purchased a Craftsman tool in a LOOOONG time. Why? The power tools are uninspired tools made under contract, or in many cases just re-badged versions of someone else's tool.

And the hand tools focused more on gimmicky robo-stuff and all kinds of "features" rather than quality at a low price.

Since I discovered that great tools at reasonable prices are not hard to find online, I have little to no use for Craftsman.



And what of that famous warranty? It's clear now it's only as valuable as the closest soon-to-be-bankrupt Sears store.

I prefer quality tools that need no warranty at all to cover a shortcoming of reputation or quality. Hard to find, yes...

Absolutey correct.

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[gdocktor3]

Does it matter? No one bought from them when their tools were made in USA, so to compensate for decline in sales they switched to over seas and still no one buys, but every one complains. The only people to blame are yourselves. I'm only 29 and know for certain I'm not the one to blame. Business was a boomin' in my younger days. Who ever buys them now will need some sort of miracle to convince people around the country to buy their tools again. Right now Husky and Kobalt rule the homeowner/diy market and HF rules the "money conscious" mechanic for lack of better term. Good luck Craftsman. I think you've been bested.

 

[6PTsocket]

A couple months ago, it seemed like Stanley was the favored company to buy-out Sears. Then, all of a sudden Stanley decided to buy Newell's tool lines (Irwin, Lenox, etc) instead. So now, there doesn't seem to be a clear front-runner.

When thinking about someone buying Craftsman, I gotta wonder what someone gets in the deal? Craftsman outsources so much (manufacturing, design, etc), that there doesn't seem to be much there except for the brand names and trademarks. I really wonder exactly what someone gets when they buy Craftsman? It seems like there isn't much besides the intellectual property.

Not to mention, the asking price was rumored to be around $2 Billion dollars. Also, the rumors are flying around that Sears is about to fold. Potential buyers have to be thinking that they might be better off to just wait and buy Craftsman out of bankruptcy, in order to get a better deal.

Well that leaves Apex and Stanley making almost all the mass market tools. They are the InbevAB of the tool world.

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[6PTsocket]

The Craftsman name meant something back in the 60's and 70's. Growing up, that was the only tool line I knew and could afford. Lately, its become something of a joke and the internet has flooded the market with other hand tools that are better and less expensive. Stanley bought Facom from Fimalac for $494m and they received significant tangible assets. Not sure Sears will be able to get that much for the name.

Good thing SK was sold off by Facom first. Independence, bankruptcy and resurrection by Ideal saved a good company.

I think craftsman hand tools will land on histories big scrap heap. To much liability for those tools already out there. Look for a catchy new name like maybe "Classman" to turn up after craftsman dies.

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[6PTsocket]

I can see Sears die off but the Hometown stores live on with those three brands, Craftman, Diehard and Kenmore. (Sears's big three)




If the Hometown stores couldn't carry on with the Sears "big three" names, I could see and have mentioned it before that Menard's would be wise to ****** them up, as they would fit right into their current line up. If John Menard was smart, he'd buy it up and bring the hand tool line production back to the US of A. In buying the "big 3" might cost him some cash but it would give him a foot hold across the rest of the US where he may not have stores now but a Sears store exists. It might even bump Menard's ahead of Lowe's and right behind HD.

The independant stores only exist as long as Sears does. Do you think that they can sustain Kenmore by themselves. They are not big enough for Whirlpool and other suppliers to make a line just for them.


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[anndel]

Lowes has Kobalt tools..........does Home Depot (or Menards) have a house brand hand tool line?

HD's house brand is Husky.

 

[WWheeler]

everyone on here wants to complain but no one has suggested that we band together as a gj limited partnership, post up a kickstater and raise enough money to buy cm and then make the tools in the us and honor the warranty. And we'll store all the inventory at harry epstein, and ask them to draw doodles on all the mail order packages.

I don't have all the details worked out yet, obviously.

+1 :d

 

[Farmall450]

Everyone on here wants to complain but no one has suggested that we band together as a GJ limited partnership, post up a Kickstater and raise enough money to buy CM and then make the tools in the US and honor the warranty. And we'll store all the inventory at Harry Epstein, and ask them to draw doodles on all the mail order packages.

I don't have all the details worked out yet, obviously.

Genius. Whoever invested the most can take the biggest hit on covering warranty expenses too!

 

[Roberts210]

Chen Yang Li Fortune Cookie and Tool Company

Ditto that.

 

[JRC3]

Craftsman tools matter

Pos repped.

 

[Zeeman]

Some people have said that the millions of tools still out there would be a liability, I'm not so sure. Example: When my dad bought a brand new Troy Bilt tiller back in the 1970's, the warranty with it said you could have the whole thing rebuilt by Troy Bilt for something like 100 or 150 bucks. When Troy Bilt sold out to MTD that warranty became no good. Not a good thing! The same could happen to Craftsman's warranty.

 

[walkerbait]

I can't imagine a warranty on previous tools remaining valid if the brand is sold/transferred. There's just no way someone would buy with that liability!

 

[PelicanPines]

Maybe they plan on renaming... maybe "Formally Known as Craftsman"...

 

[Zeeman]

^^^Oh, no! Look what happened to the person formally known as Prince. I hope that does not happen to Craftsman!

 

[Empty Pockets]

I heard a rumor that "The Mrs. Grace L. Ferguson Airline and Storm Door Company" was interested. (Apologies to Bob Newhart)

 

[Empty Pockets]

Everyone on here wants to complain but no one has suggested that we band together as a GJ limited partnership, post up a Kickstater and raise enough money to buy CM and then make the tools in the US and honor the warranty. And we'll store all the inventory at Harry Epstein, and ask them to draw doodles on all the mail order packages.

I don't have all the details worked out yet, obviously.

Why not just sell through Amazon?

 

[6PTsocket]

I can't imagine a warranty on previous tools remaining valid if the brand is sold/transferred. There's just no way someone would buy with that liability!

That is exactly what Ideal did when they bought the name and assets of bankrupt SK. Fellow GJers have posted that they are good to their word. The difference is SK was never the garbage that Craftsman has become. Ideal wants the good will of those customers. The higher quality and much smaller volume means there are a lot less claims. They even built a new factory and came out with new product as opposed to Craftsman that used a warranty as a substitute for quality.

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[Cato]

It will probably die off just like Montgomery Wards Power Kraft and JC Penny's Penncraft (?).

 

[Empty Pockets]

That is exactly what Ideal did when they bought the name and assets of bankrupt SK. Fellow GJers have posted that they are good to their word. The difference is SK was never the garbage that Craftsman has become. Ideal wants the good will of those customers. The higher quality and much smaller volume means there are a lot less claims. They even built a new factory and came out with new product as opposed to Craftsman that used a warranty as a substitute for quality.

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I have bought some new SK stuff, there is no comparison when looking at CM. SK is far and away better

 

[sberry]

I have bought some new SK stuff, there is no comparison when looking at CM. SK is far and away better

It only cost 10x as much or more, it should be.

 

[fastbike02]

I figure if craftsman name doesn't die off then they will have a revamp and only the "new" models will be warrantied if any are

 

[mmack66]

No way IMO, will Walmart ever sell and support products with lifetime warranties.

Sure they would. They sell Channellock and Stanley, don't they? All of that Popular Mechanics stuff they used to sell likely had a lifetime warranty ,for what that was worth.

 

[pendragon1998]

I decided when I bought my Craftsman (USA) tools a few years back that I wasn't going to expect a warranty if and when something broke. I socked away a few ratchet rebuild kits and if I break a socket or something somehow (hasn't happened yet), I will probably upgrade individual things to SK or Snap-on.

 

[FlushingDIYer]

Two retailers that could use an in-house brand:

- Advance Auto Parts
- Pep Boys

I know I kind of always seem to go to Autozone over them because they have "tools" that sometimes come in handy...

 

[Roberts210]

Hold on... if Pres. Trump slaps a hefty import duty on foreign tools it might put the kibosh on any Chinese firm buying Craftsman. Wouldn't it be a hoot if an American company bought Craftsman and did better than Sears?

 

[theoldwizard1]

Some people have said that the millions of tools still out there would be a liability, I'm not so sure.

I can't imagine a warranty on previous tools remaining valid if the brand is sold/transferred.

Consumers do NOT care who owns the name ! Not upholding the warranty would be the "kiss of death".

ACE is the most likely to buy it, but their franchise stores do NOT have the floor space for the full line. That, and franchisees really don't want to deal with shipping the stuff back for credit.

Going all "Made in the USA" might be interesting, but Armstrong (one of the traditional Craftsman US suppliers) has been having their problems and I don't think there are enough customers that really care about COO.

IMHO, 50% chance NO ONE will buy it.

 

[T45]

Consumers do NOT care who owns the name ! Not upholding the warranty would be the "kiss of death".

ACE is the most likely to buy it, but their franchise stores do NOT have the floor space for the full line. That, and franchisees really don't want to deal with shipping the stuff back for credit.

Going all "Made in the USA" might be interesting, but Armstrong (one of the traditional Craftsman US suppliers) has been having their problems and I don't think there are enough customers that really care about COO.

IMHO, 50% chance NO ONE will buy it.

Consumers don't really care about warranty on a $1 dollar socket. It costs more time and effort to get the warranty serviced than its worth. The issue with warranty is more about parts availability and not getting ripped off when the parts fail, with rip off spare parts prices.

Cman could easily survive going forwar with a goodwill warranty on previous sales. If you paid $1 a socxket in 1995 and got 20 years of use on them, you did well. And anyways geting a $0,20 cent chicom socket back for free after wasting gas money and time to argue about it is silly. I'd rather pay wholesale cost on a nice decent usa socket for $0.50 or $0.60 cents or something...makes everones life easier and better off in the end.

The warranty is important to make sure companies don't pursue elaborate hoaxes and sell ing fake tool steel or products out of spec. But beyond that, the only modern company with decent warranty service is probably snap on with original customer purchsases--and they have to be very selective to keep scammers and junk peddlers at bay. Snap on only works because they don't sell retail as a business model and a typical business client (including serious amatuer/enthusiast/prosumers) is a potential $5,000 to 50,000 dollar lifetime sales opportunity (when you consider total too spend/ capital deployed over a business per Tech). Craftsman customers are probably an order of magnitude smaller on average, which is an important distinction in terms of business practices etc.

 

[Threadkiller]

Itll be a shame to see it go, however in my eyes its been gone for a while. They lost me as a customer for the most part when they shipped their manufacturing overseas and kept the prices the same. If two tools are made in the same place (China, Taiwan) and one is significantly cheaper and usually of better quality guess which one I will buy? For the most part I cannot afford tool truck tools or I cannot justify spending the money on them, although I do have a few snap on pieces. My sockets are just about all craftsman excluding my impact sockets which are Harbor Freight. I have a ton of Craftsman ratchets but barely reach for them anymore over the HF professional series ratchets. For the money and where they are both made and the quality of (most of) the HF stuff its a no brainer for me at least.

 

[kythri]

Interesting how for the last 5 years the guys on garage journal have correctly predicted Sears closing following the Christmas season.

Been happening for nearly ten, at least. Ever since my 1st day here.