Which Air Compressor to Choose?

[OverkillYJ]

So my Father in law needs an air tank, and I need a pump. So we are looking at an Ingersol Rann Pump for $500. It is the Green Dirty one. We are also considering making an offer on this hercules for $600, but the seller seems firm at $800.

Which one would seem to be the better choice up front? They are both single Phase 5HP motors on 80 Gallon Tanks. The Hercules motor was replaced 5 years ago. It also looks like the hercules was maintained better. If I split this with my Father in law I would be $400 for the pump and motor on the hercules worse case scenario, or $250 on the Ingersol. He doesnt care which one.

The Ingersol has a problem though that it is being sold at a used Auto Parts place that people complained about on Google reveiws. Seems like it might be a shady shop, so I really cant believe what they tell me about how well it runs or anything, even though I can go see it run.

The Hercules guy is trustworthy and honest. I know what I am buying, but I dont know anything about Hercules Pumps.

I figure this is the best place to ask. I have to make a decision before someone else buys one of these and makes it for me. Both my father in law and myself do not really have time to waste. My compressor controls my lift in my shop, as well as lots of blasting, and he does lots of blasting, and his tank just started getting a couple pin holes in it and needs to be replaced ASAP. Any advice you guys could offer is much appreciated.

 

[BLACK DEATH]

I never see compressors that cheap down here in tx.
I'd like to get an older one that's built right.

 

[crice63]

Used equipment like that is a shot in the dark. Go with trustworthy guy and bank a little karma. Might need it later.

 

[930dreamer]

The Ingersoll Rand compressor looks like a 15T model, they 're usually 15-25hp three phase models, if it has a 5hp motor on it can't be working very well. The motor in the pic looks like a three phase motor to me.

 

[wild cowboy]

I would vote for the Hercules - it looks like a more serious compressor and the motor on the Ingersol looks like a cheapie.

 

[jmilch]

The Ingersoll Rand compressor looks like a 15T model, they 're usually 15-25hp three phase models, if it has a 5hp motor on it can't be working very well. The motor in the pic looks like a three phase motor to me.

Same thing I was thinking. ANd for reference, I had a single phase 5 hp motor on a Quincy QE-10 pump that was originall rated for 10 hp. Did it work? Yes. Probably no where near 35CFM like it should have, but it was functional.

OP- I would shy away from going for something with the unknown seller. But thats just from my experience with used compressors.

 

[MacMcMacmac]

The IR is far and away a much higher spec machine, but current condition is unknown, as you say. It is also way more pump than 5hp will drive to specified RPM and pressure. If it is underdriven, it may actually be in good condition, if minimum RPM for proper splash lube was maintained. This particular unit also has head unloaders for constant-run operation, which may not mean anything to you, but you could drive it with a fairly beefy gas engine if you wanted.

The Hercules is actually a Chinese Swan pump. Not a bad pump. They were the mainstay of our shop where I worked back in 2000. Actually similarly built to the IR with an overhung crankshaft and concentric disc valves. They seemed to hold up pretty well. I see this pump also has the head unloaders. Not quite in the same class as the IR. This is an old-school Type 30, and built like a brick you know what. If you have the power to run it to spec, the IR should give you quite a bit more air, but you need another motor if it is indeed a 5hp on it at the moment. The IR is a very simple pump to rebuild if necessary.

Again, this is all based on as-new condition. Once they've been in service, a lot depends on how they were maintained and operated.

 

[OverkillYJ]

Ok. So I went today and gave the guy with the IR $50 to hold it for me until my Father in Law can get there with a trailer. It is indeed a 10HP 3 Phase. The picture doesnt do it justice. There is pretty much no rust on it. Looks like a blown gasket or two, but it runs. I am not going to mess with anything except replace any bad gaskets, clean it up, and resell it. If this guy took the time to do anything to it he could get quite bit more than what he is asking. We are assuming to put 18-24 hours into it total.

I do know what continuous use pumps are, and I do need one.

I only have single phase in my shop, but I also have a service in my house. Is it possible to run a line with a breaker to a motor that required a three phase setup from the service in my home? My main steel supplier I use also does electrical industrial wholesale and I can go get all the stuff needed in one place for about as cheap as possible. I would like to have a three phase capability in my shop like that if possible. I can safely run the wire and make sure it is on a 50 amp breaker if needed. I was not sure what I would need to double the voltage, or if it is as simple as twisting two hots together off the same service in the house. I already have counduit between the buildings, 6" PVC, then gas and water from the house. My home service is 200 AMP, and my shop service is 100AMP. This would just be for a single location in my shop if possible, not a huge line to create a three phase service panel or anything crazy like that. I figure I have 12 or 10 gauge wire with a ground. I thought I might be able to just run two hots over on that one line and forget about the nuetral since I already have it on the service in the shop. Am I correct, or is there more to it?

I also saw the compressor run and everything. It sounded perfectly fine and built pressure extremely fast. It does not look like it has ever been cleaned in its life. The layer of grime on it is as thick as they get, but it doesnt scare me because my Quincy 310 ran over a year and it looked like that but worse when I found it. The one thing I am not sure about is if I should even consider keeping this pump. I do media blast, and that is picking up more. I currently have a Quincy 80 Gallon tank. I was told this would cost a lot more to run each month compared to what I currently have, and my electric would go through the roof if I was able to use both services as a 3 phase. I was not sure if that would be true or not. I understand this 10HP motor is 5 times as powerful as what I currently have, but it would fill the tank much faster and not run as long. I need about 20-25CFM on average when I am blasting. I am guessing this IR pump will put out at least 30? My Quincy started biting the dust fast because it only puts out like 10cfm or something around there. You guys would know better than me.

So sorry if this is the dumbest post on this site, but I am guessing there is some way for me to setup 3 phase since I have two services at just a single jusction box in my shop where I would bring them together. Also, if I could get a solid answer on bigger pumps costing more to run that would be great.

Thanks for all the help.

 

[930dreamer]

There're a few threads on three phase power, key words for you are "rotary phase converter".

 

[MacMcMacmac]

Three phase is much more than just three hots. The phase of the AC current also has to be 120 degrees apart. Guaranteed the third leg you'd pull from the house is the same phase as one of the two legs in your shop already, so it wouldn't work. The only way to generate 3 phase from single phase is a phase converter, and I'd be lying to you to say I knew how to do it. The rotary phase converter is probably the easiest, but you need motors bigger than the one you are trying to run to generate the third leg, which gets cumbersome in a hurry. Household wiring is not really up to the job of high amp loads either. Rule of thumb, the lower the operating voltage, the bigger and more expensive the wiring and components will be, single phase, even more so. I've pulled wires for 50hp, 208V motors and it wasn't fun.

I can't comment on the cost to run, but will certainly be higher, perhaps a lot if your blasting business takes off.

The IR should easily get make more than 30cfm. Probably closer to 40.

As far as being dirty, I used to joke that whenever an engineer was designing a shop, he'd look at the part of the building most likely to attract dirt, oil, garbage, empty cans, broken tools and rodents, then label it COMPRESSOR ROOM.

 

[OverkillYJ]

That was the point of my question. When you run something that is 230 it is because you are runnning the two hots to create the 230. I was not sure if I twisted two together that A:It would be safe B:The voltage would double. As far as them be separate services I was not sure if that made a difference either since both services come off the same line at the pole.

I have done a tone of single phase wiring, just not three. I am familiar with the third leg being double voltage. I was thinking I would run the to my shop on a 50Amp breaker if it would work. Since it would be 50Amps between two lines the wire I have would handle the load fine over the distance needed. I guess all I really need to know is if I twist two hots off of two breakers in a service together does it read double, or does it just carry that much more amperage? I would guess after thinking about it that is would just be higher amperage. If a small single phase motor has the part in it to conver those two legs to 230 though then that means the part should not be over complicated or expensive. Normally this is not a solution people would discuss in threads since most people arent thrying to create a three phase from two services. I looked quite a bit before creating this post and did not see anything about it anywhere.

So I guess after thinking about it, I just need to know how to create a 230 leg off of a normal household service. All the other lines I have already.