Ole Slewfoot
Well-known member
My DeVilbis says 1948 on it, and the only problems I've had is my old hoses blowing out.
Not seen a Vw like that, but I had a Flathead Ford that was.
Pretty much like this
Which air tools are better than electric?
- Thread starter Bennylava
- Start date
Not seen a Vw like that, but I had a Flathead Ford that was.
Pretty much like this
I agree that in most situations air tools are the way to go, but I have found one exception to that rule. After you have painted a car and you want to polish the clear coat an electric buffer is much better than the air equivalent. The 9227 Makita buffer is what I use because you can buff at a low speed for long periods of time without the buffer bogging down or getting cold in my hands. Also works great with 80 grit sand paper if you need to strip paint down to bare metal.
from what i've seen there are quite a few cordless impacts that are quite good...
air will still allow for a smaller/lighter impact compared to equally powerful cordless units
Couple of the guys in the shop have 3/8" electric impacts, one snapon and one Milwaukee fuel.
Snap on is in the transmission building area. Works pretty well for tearing them down most of the time, but not unusual to run into at least a couple bolts it won't pull and have to switch to air.
Works better for reassembly, unfortunately the snapon isn't adjustable so you have to use correctly set air or do it by hand. True some things need to be done by hand anyway.
The fuel is in the R&R/Mechanical area. From my observation it works less well there. I don't think I've actually seen him complete a job without grabbing an air tool.
Its too big to fit into most spots you have to reach, and if you put any extension on it then it loses most of its power. This is a fairly new tool with good batteries, say 6mts old.
Although it looks like its 5 years old, Snap on looks way older than it is also. They seem to hold up ok, just look like ****.
If you ask either one they say they like them. I think that has more to do with paying around $500 off the truck for them then their actual functionality.
A clutched/adjustable one would be pretty handy in the trans area I think, or for other relatively light assembly/disassembly work on the bench.
If you have to work out in the field with no access to air then electric would be worth having I'm sure.
But for basic all around mechanical work I don't see an advantage, for sure not a $500 advantage.
Handy in the situations were they will work, but given they won't fit in many if not most of the areas they need to not so handy really. If you try to put an extension on to reach something you lose the power you need.
Basically looks like something else to deal with in the work area for no real advantage I can see, at least in your average shop situation.
Snap on is in the transmission building area. Works pretty well for tearing them down most of the time, but not unusual to run into at least a couple bolts it won't pull and have to switch to air.
Works better for reassembly, unfortunately the snapon isn't adjustable so you have to use correctly set air or do it by hand. True some things need to be done by hand anyway.
The fuel is in the R&R/Mechanical area. From my observation it works less well there. I don't think I've actually seen him complete a job without grabbing an air tool.
Its too big to fit into most spots you have to reach, and if you put any extension on it then it loses most of its power. This is a fairly new tool with good batteries, say 6mts old.
Although it looks like its 5 years old, Snap on looks way older than it is also. They seem to hold up ok, just look like ****.
If you ask either one they say they like them. I think that has more to do with paying around $500 off the truck for them then their actual functionality.
A clutched/adjustable one would be pretty handy in the trans area I think, or for other relatively light assembly/disassembly work on the bench.
If you have to work out in the field with no access to air then electric would be worth having I'm sure.
But for basic all around mechanical work I don't see an advantage, for sure not a $500 advantage.
Handy in the situations were they will work, but given they won't fit in many if not most of the areas they need to not so handy really. If you try to put an extension on to reach something you lose the power you need.
Basically looks like something else to deal with in the work area for no real advantage I can see, at least in your average shop situation.
espyking83
Well-known member
I prefer air for everything other than a screwgun or impact wrench. Really depends on your trade though and what you work on. Couldnt imagine doing something like construction without batteries lol
brownsmustang
Well-known member
Both have advantages and disadvantages. I wouldn't trade one for the other, I run both....
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azhatchback
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Interesting thread. I use air but have been considering some battery stuff. Never really thought about the spark and fuel fumes. Would this also be the case with brushless motor tools? We run a brushless motor on my kids RC car and it is pretty much sealed. It does not have the brush and Com spark arc and it runs way cooler then a brush motor.
pepi
Well-known member
The best part of the air tools, the control. Not only can you feather them, but also use the regulator to change the power, think dimmer switch for a light..
I have an electric plug in angle grinder with variable speed that is very helpful. Have more air tools then electric.
Oh yeah air tools a smaller and more compact. If I made my living working all day everyday with power tools. I sure as hell would not have battery power, I only have one as it is now, a hand drill.
One suggestion, do not tool up with HF air tools you will be sadly disappointed. They make more noise than power...
bcradio
Well-known member
One suggestion, do not tool up with HF air tools you will be sadly disappointed. They make more noise than power...
You must not have used the Earthquake lineup.
This is the reason for this thread. I'm looking at $800 to $1k for a decent compressor. If I bought one, then I'm going to put it outside the shop its own little house, so I don't have to deal with all that loud racket, and also there are space constraints. So then I drill holes in the wall, for tubing and electrical. Then I've to to set up a pressure regulator of some kind, and wire up a switch on the inside to turn the compressor on and off. And probably hook up a 220, cause I don't think those big compressors run on 110v. Lot of time and money would go into all of this. And its really a lot more than I'd like to spend.
I mean what are we looking at here... $1k for the compressor, and at least another $500 in getting it set up properly? Might be holding off on good air for a long time.
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If you are just working on your own stuff and not trying to make a living you can get by with a small compressor for tires and blowing stuff off a little and do the rest by hand.
If you are going to try to make money at it, you need air.
To realistically do any body work, you need air.
If you are going to try to make money at it, you need air.
To realistically do any body work, you need air.
WhiskeyRanger
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- Mar 28, 2015
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Yeah, paying $500 for one off a tool truck would change things. I paid about $220 for my 1/2" impact and it is just as effective as the air impacts I used before. It is larger, but that hasn't been an issue yet.
I guess the advantages are situational. I'm not a professional mechanic working in a commercial garage, so air is much less convenient. Also, since I use cordless tools for work and around the house, I'm going to have batteries around anyway. If I was in a shop where the boss is buying the compressor and paying for the juice to run it, air would be much more attractive.
dnschmidt
Well-known member
1) Blow gun
2) Small Die Grinder - Electric is better is you need to use it a lot e.g. porting heads
3) 1/2" IMPACT. For 3/8" the Fuel is the nuts. 1/2" Cordless too heavy
4) Impacting ratchet. SP Air or AirPro can't be beat. 50 ft-lb and easily fit into your hand. M12 ratchet - no balls and too big.
5) DA sander AirVantage or Dynabrade are just so much better than electric. The motors with the electric make them too tall. AirVantage has introduced an electric with the power supply separate from the sander. That version does not suffer from the top heavy problem. The one with the power supply and the motor build in is poorly balanced.
2) Small Die Grinder - Electric is better is you need to use it a lot e.g. porting heads
3) 1/2" IMPACT. For 3/8" the Fuel is the nuts. 1/2" Cordless too heavy
4) Impacting ratchet. SP Air or AirPro can't be beat. 50 ft-lb and easily fit into your hand. M12 ratchet - no balls and too big.
5) DA sander AirVantage or Dynabrade are just so much better than electric. The motors with the electric make them too tall. AirVantage has introduced an electric with the power supply separate from the sander. That version does not suffer from the top heavy problem. The one with the power supply and the motor build in is poorly balanced.
ibedayank
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rlitman
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michael.alex
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Milwaukee m18 FUEL, look at the specks on their hi torque 1/2" impact: 1100ft lbs of nut busting torque!!! Damn. The red cordless tools are a game changer. The hammer drills have a hammer only mode too to chisel with. And once you buy a couple kits you can get bare tool only, to save cash. Their paddle grinder is brushless too and way sweet.
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KnurledNut
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KnurledNut
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Roberts210
Well-known member
I have a Milwaukee 1/2" electric impact wrench and I love it. The lug nuts on my Dodge/Cummins need 135 ft. lbs. and it's a lot easier to run a 12 ga. extension cord out into the barnyard than an air hose. The Milwaukee is stronger than my C-H air impact, but the C-H is a cheapie. I use air for my needle scaler and air hammer and of course my old Hitachi NR83 nail gun. Oh and a Bosch stapler too.
Superbec
Well-known member
hahha, 1500 for air? that doesn't even scratch it, after you get all set up you will find the need of an air dryer , that's another 1000, piping? even pex will be a few hundreds for any decent size shop, reels... another few hundreds, quick connectors (consumables !!!!) I let you find out.
Air is so expensive it doesn't make any sense, I mean a setup that lets you use TOOLS not inflate tires with pauses to cycle the compressor .
And then the AIR TOOLS are not that cheap , at least the good ones are comparable in price with battery powered
Sand blasting is the only true reason to go air these days.
Air pays for itself.
I watched the guy with the fuel again a bit yesterday pulling a transmission. I was waiting on him so I could rebuild it.
He started out using it, got 3 bolts out, then couldn't reach the next one. Switched to 3/8" air ratchet, pulled a couple more, then switched back to cordless.
Since it was going to be awhile I found something else to do, but came back again later.
He was working on the bellhousing bolts, the fuel wouldn't pull them - he switched in a full charged battery, still no go. So he went to my box and got my 1/2" impact and pulled them.
So in the 5 to 10 minutes I paid attention he spent about half the time dicking around with the cordless. The 3 month old expensive cordless.
This was an s10 with a 4l60e which is about as easy as pulling a trans gets these days.
I didn't watch the whole job but I suspect it all went about that way since every time I pay attention it appears to be the same situations over and over.
I don't have anything against cordless tools. I own several. I have a couple drills, a sawsall, a circular saw, a drain auger, lights and so on.
They are at home where they are great for what I need, few screws in a fence, lop off a couple of 2x4's, drill a couple holes, unclog the sink, that sort of thing.
In fact, the reason I'm paying attention to cordless tools in the shop is because I'm considering getting a 3/8" cordless impact.
From what I can see for basic mechanical work they don't pull their weight. Either too big to fit, or not strong enough if you need to use extensions/swivels - which you have to, a lot.
Looks to me like he spent almost $500 (still paying actually) for something that makes him slower.
Yes air compressors and air tools are expensive. Tools are expensive. Spending a bunch of money on something that half does the job isn't going to make the cost cheaper.
I've never worked in a shop that had an air drier. More of a paint spraying thing I think and I don't believe there are any cordless paint sprayers capable of painting a car in any case.
Believe it or not we run a 5 man shop off an old husky single stage compressor and very seldom have issues with air pressure, if somebody is running a cut off wheel or blowing a lot of air you might have to wait a couple of minutes, but not very often - rough guess once a week or two.
I have a better 2 stage porter cable compressor here at home. I bought it off craigslist for $300. Came with a cord and plug, gauge and was even mounted on wheels. Changed plug to match mine, plugged it in, connected air line and ready to go.
I don't spray a lot of paint, but I made a combination water trap, filter, regulator setup that I can put in line if necessary and get by.
So I have maybe $400 or so in a functional setup better than the shop I work at and we push a lot of cars through there in a week.
I watched the guy with the fuel again a bit yesterday pulling a transmission. I was waiting on him so I could rebuild it.
He started out using it, got 3 bolts out, then couldn't reach the next one. Switched to 3/8" air ratchet, pulled a couple more, then switched back to cordless.
Since it was going to be awhile I found something else to do, but came back again later.
He was working on the bellhousing bolts, the fuel wouldn't pull them - he switched in a full charged battery, still no go. So he went to my box and got my 1/2" impact and pulled them.
So in the 5 to 10 minutes I paid attention he spent about half the time dicking around with the cordless. The 3 month old expensive cordless.
This was an s10 with a 4l60e which is about as easy as pulling a trans gets these days.
I didn't watch the whole job but I suspect it all went about that way since every time I pay attention it appears to be the same situations over and over.
I don't have anything against cordless tools. I own several. I have a couple drills, a sawsall, a circular saw, a drain auger, lights and so on.
They are at home where they are great for what I need, few screws in a fence, lop off a couple of 2x4's, drill a couple holes, unclog the sink, that sort of thing.
In fact, the reason I'm paying attention to cordless tools in the shop is because I'm considering getting a 3/8" cordless impact.
From what I can see for basic mechanical work they don't pull their weight. Either too big to fit, or not strong enough if you need to use extensions/swivels - which you have to, a lot.
Looks to me like he spent almost $500 (still paying actually) for something that makes him slower.
Yes air compressors and air tools are expensive. Tools are expensive. Spending a bunch of money on something that half does the job isn't going to make the cost cheaper.
I've never worked in a shop that had an air drier. More of a paint spraying thing I think and I don't believe there are any cordless paint sprayers capable of painting a car in any case.
Believe it or not we run a 5 man shop off an old husky single stage compressor and very seldom have issues with air pressure, if somebody is running a cut off wheel or blowing a lot of air you might have to wait a couple of minutes, but not very often - rough guess once a week or two.
I have a better 2 stage porter cable compressor here at home. I bought it off craigslist for $300. Came with a cord and plug, gauge and was even mounted on wheels. Changed plug to match mine, plugged it in, connected air line and ready to go.
I don't spray a lot of paint, but I made a combination water trap, filter, regulator setup that I can put in line if necessary and get by.
So I have maybe $400 or so in a functional setup better than the shop I work at and we push a lot of cars through there in a week.
shockwave
Well-known member
Like mentioned before
Die grinders
Cut off wheels
Air hammers
Blow guns
Air lifts
Die grinders
Cut off wheels
Air hammers
Blow guns
Air lifts
bcradio
Well-known member
Fixed it for you...
"Ever see a HILTI TE3000AVR? YES, it's as good at breaking pavement as a 90lb pneumatic hammer, but it doesn't require a towable compressor to back it up either."
Nope, it's not. A 60lb maybe, but not a 90lb.
I definitely agree with this. I grew up using air tools so I've always liked them. While I like cordless tools (drill in particular) I've gone through enough to know that the battery is almost always the part that will fail first. I would still be using my old Makita 12V stick battery drill if the batteries were good (or cheap to replace). My limited supply of air tools are working just fine more than a decade after I bought them.
Really I think we have three categories, Air, Corded Electric and Cordless Electric. Cordless tools are always nice because they are cordless! It's great not having to worry about having an outlet around when you aren't working in the garage. In the garage I assume I will have air handy. However, with my 110V compressor just how much air I have is an issue. I never worry about my corded drill using more power than the wall can provide. But as others have said air seems easier to control (and almost always lighter) than AC tools.
Cordless control seems very good with most tools. However, I don't trust any battery tool to be a "lifetime" tool.
So I guess it's where and how often are you going to use it. Oh, if you look at the actual electrical cost of using air it's rather stunning. For the same amount of output an air tool requires about 7-8 times as much energy from the wall. This typically isn't a big deal to hobby work but it can mater when you are talking about an industrial environment.
http://www.maintenancetechnology.com/2011/05/how-much-is-your-air-system-really-costing/
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KnurledNut
Well-known member
He said pavement, not concrete.
Given an 8 hour workday, Ill take our 65lb TE3000AVR and work a whole lot more efficient, and with much less body damage, and i dare say more productive, than a guy busting a 90lb'er all day.
Impact energy ft lb numbers are only as good as the guy packing the machine around.
That was the basis for my comment.
Experience vs. numbers.
Over at the autobody forums, there is a guy who paints ferraris with this, which is what I'm going to buy. To avoid a huge air compressor. I do have a little tire filler compressor from pep boys, but it just doesn't have the oomph to really run many tools. Anyway they said that this thing has several advantages over a traditional autobody spray rig setup that runs off of a compressor.
http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/...e=ABS&Product_Code=FUJ2202&Category_Code=5TSS
http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/...e=ABS&Product_Code=FUJ2202&Category_Code=5TSS
Ole Slewfoot
Well-known member
My 400 LB chunk of iron compressor cost me 4 used, functional, but unwashed ford 8 lug steelies. It's given me 10 years of reliable service, and a lot of air for not spending $1500.
bcradio
Well-known member
That's true for anything though. If you can't or don't know how to use something, then you won't be productive. Throw that Hilti with a seasoned operator against a Bobcat operated by a complete novice and the Hilti would take that as well.
Me with my operator hat on would certainly take lighter weight hammer. Me with my foreman hat on would take the 90lber for speed and production.
gasman23
Well-known member
WhiskeyRanger
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- Mar 28, 2015
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Yeah, world of difference between me footing the bill for the air, and my boss footing the bill. Counting on a screaming deal for an air compressor isn't something I would hold my breath for.
If you do find a great deal, snap it up. I'm just now getting my air set back up at my house after a move and if I didn't already have a compressor and tools, I probably wouldn't bother. Of course it is handy having a blow off and tire inflator!
Ole Slewfoot
Well-known member
I bought 30' of wire, and made a lean to with a couple used boards.
Then dangled it in place with a boom rigged form my lumber rack.
The thing about lageish compressors, when they are in the way, or you have to move, they are really in the way, and the price reflects that.
Then dangled it in place with a boom rigged form my lumber rack.
The thing about lageish compressors, when they are in the way, or you have to move, they are really in the way, and the price reflects that.