Which basic MAPP/OXY torch for heating stuck automotive bolts ?

[GoodEnough]

For a weekender's use. Not a pro.
Might only be used a few times a year.

$50 - Bernzomatic TS8000KC Premium Torch Kit
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Bernzomatic-TS8000KC-Premium-Torch-Kit-331044/203371801#.UmRvXlC-1Bk

$65 - The one with the 5' hose extension so you hold only the little gun, and not the entire tank. Worth it?
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Bernzoma...-Hose-Torch-Kit-331665/203391035#.UmRvoFC-1Bl

Or, Oxy?
$60 - Bernzomatic OX2550KC Oxy/Map-Pro Torch Kit
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002JM8AO/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[Buckgnarly]

Neither, get an oxy acetylene and do it right.

 

[zkling]

Majority of the time I use a TS8000 connected to a 20lb BBQ tank via a "camping adapter" gets hot enough for majority of the bolts I work on, and I work on some rust $hit. The 20lb BBQ is the cheap way to go compared to the little disposable 1lb-ers.

What is the difference between the silver and black (mine) TS8000?

 

[Subyroo651]

I have the first one, it's nothing special but it is far better than nothing.
Obviously Oxy is the best but not everyone wants or needs that.
I don't know if the Oxy you listed is all that good.

 

[zkling]

O, don't mess with that tiny OA setup. It is super expensive to operate. A bottle of that oxy is ~$10 IIRC.

 

[GoodEnough]

I prefer not to have a giant *** tank.
Like I said, I might use it a few times a year.
So, I don't need the most economical setup.
Like 651 said, it's better than nothing.

What are some other options to heat up a few bolts a year.

 

[bobcatdan]

I would look into a oxy/ ace porta torch set up. I have one in the service truck and it is very handy. Not great for cutting as it will run the tanks down rather quick. Great for heating stuff.

 

[cgv69]

I prefer not to have a giant *** tank.

A 20lb propane tank is not a "giant *** tank". Its a standard size tank found in just about every home that has a gas grill. They cost about $20-$25 new, don't take up much space and pay for themselves in no time compared to those little 1lb bottles

 

[fxgmech]

For heating stuff just enough to break it loose, I use the first option almost every time. Then I add aerosol sprays, candles, ice, etc. It works 90% of those times. That's at work 40/week. I have an oxy/acet torch with cutting and preheat tips ready to go but usually try the small torch first. I sometimes go a week or two w/o firing up the oxy/acet torch for heat but when I need it, it's usually more to save time than parts.

 

[WWIIjeep]

O, don't mess with that tiny OA setup. It is super expensive to operate. A bottle of that oxy is ~$10 IIRC.

The 10CF MC acetylene cylinder is even more--around $13 to $15 for an exchange, depending on where you are and who your supplier is, but I disagree about not messing with that size.

If someone is only welding or heating or cutting once in a while, and only for small jobs, the safecracker or port-a-torch kits can be just the ticket, especially if there's any concern about having larger compressed gas cylinders in one's home.

I've had one of those kits for over 30 years, just for its portability. It gets used maybe 6 or 8 times per year, and often just with a Prest-O-Lite (air-acetylene) torch for sweating copper pipe or for heating small parts. At that level of use, the acetylene cylinder lasts me about 10-12 months and the oxygen a little longer, so for less than $30/year, I have light-duty portable and efficient occasional-use heating and cutting capacity. YMMV. I do also have a larger set of non-portable cylinders in the shop for general use, well-beyond what the OP said his expected use would be.

 

[Craptain]

I use the basic TS8000 with Propane. It does almost everything I need of it. For the rest I have a Porta-kit Oxy/Acetylene that I picked up at a yard sale tears ago for about $40. I also have a really old propane torch without the igniter and it still gets a lot of use. I often see these at sales for a buck or 2.

Mapp gas is not nearly as good as it used to be since they changed the formula.

 

[rlitman]

O, don't mess with that tiny OA setup. It is super expensive to operate. A bottle of that oxy is ~$10 IIRC.

The oxy bottles are super expensive, AND only last a few minutes of operation each.

I would only consider a real oxy torch for heating bolts. Only an oxy/fuel torch's flame is concentrated enough to heat just a bolt and not it's surroundings. I use the preheat flames from a cutting torch for this purpose.

 

[MG44]

I use a yellow MAPP gas tank 90% of the time for loosening bolts due to portability and $. If i am heating a large area, or cutting a bolt, I will wheel out the acel/oxy setup.

 

[abvw]

Yeah the TS8000 is more than suffice. Takes about 2 minutes to get a 14mm nut cherry red.

 

[skulldrinker]

We use the yellow bottle of Mapp a lot at work for light jobs. The alignment guy uses it as a first choice for tie rods nuts and such. It will get bolts red hot quick. Not sure how much those yellow bottles cost. Of course for the bigger jobs like exhaust bolts we drag out the big tanks.

 

[Murphy4570]

Don't **** around, buy a full on oxy-acetylene torch cutting setup.

Home Depot sells a small portable setup sold by Lincoln that runs $300. Has Harris brand equipment. Quality stuff. I have one, and it works well for what it is. Bottle capacity is small, but will last you if you don't use it for an hour straight.

If you want to go up a notch, you can get a set of big bottles (5 foot tall stuff), a big boy cutting torch (I have a Victor, good stuff), and a 50-100 foot hose. Perfect for shop use.

If your squeamish about acetylene, use propane. Works just as well, just has less BTU's and reduces the thickness of steel it will be able to cut by a half inch or an inch. This isn't a big deal for automotive work, as you'll still be able to cut through an inch or two thick of stuff. Perfect for torching out rusted bolts and such.

 

[creativecars]

I like this. I originally picked this up to burn out some rubber bushings when I was away from my torch set. It did a great job and now it my go to for many of my flame type needs. I grab it when lighting brush piles, fire pits, bbq grill, heating pipes, some bolts etc... I especially like not having to find a lighter, striker or matches.
Just grab and go...
http://www.lowes.com/pd_323765-743-...L=?Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&facetInfo=

 

[bluebolt]

I like this. I originally picked this up to burn out some rubber bushings when I was away from my torch set. It did a great job and now it my go to for many of my flame type needs. I grab it when lighting brush piles, fire pits, bbq grill, heating pipes, some bolts etc... I especially like not having to find a lighter, striker or matches.
Just grab and go...
http://www.lowes.com/pd_323765-743-...L=?Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&facetInfo=

I love my MAPP torch for the same reasons. Easy to grab and tote, lights fireplaces and brush piles, helps to loosen bolts. Used it two days ago to loosen frozen clothes washer hose connections. Dragging a big torch into the hosue would have been kind of rough LOL

 

[theoldwizard1]

MAPP/Pro is not MAPP !

No one makes MAP gas any more and MAPP/Pro is really not much hotter than propane.

You can't beat a Turbo Torch with a small acetylene bottle ! Commonly used by plumber and HVAC guys. You can usually find one in decent condition on CL for about $100.

You can also usually find a "homeowner" oxy/acetylene setup complete with 2 small tanks for under $200.

 

[geojag]

O, don't mess with that tiny OA setup. It is super expensive to operate. A bottle of that oxy is ~$10 IIRC.

Yep, I scored the last set listed by the OP for free, what a deal! I thought, then I bought the bottle of oxy and it lasted about 5 minutes, if that.

 

[malibu101]

As was said above, I've been there and I say don't mess around with those little things.
I have an oxy/act torch but I got one of these little things years ago from a neighbor that was moving and didn't want to take it along.
I took it because of the small "torch" body, thinking it would be easier to get into tight engine compartments than the "real" torch with a brazing tip to get heat on those stubborn fasteners.

Well it is but after paying for 1 oxy cylinder and having it last less than 10 miniutes I never touched it again.

 

[zkling]

The 10CF MC acetylene cylinder is even more--around $13 to $15 for an exchange, depending on where you are and who your supplier is, but I disagree about not messing with that size.

If someone is only welding or heating or cutting once in a while, and only for small jobs, the safecracker or port-a-torch kits can be just the ticket, especially if there's any concern about having larger compressed gas cylinders in one's home.

I've had one of those kits for over 30 years, just for its portability. It gets used maybe 6 or 8 times per year, and often just with a Prest-O-Lite (air-acetylene) torch for sweating copper pipe or for heating small parts. At that level of use, the acetylene cylinder lasts me about 10-12 months and the oxygen a little longer, so for less than $30/year, I have light-duty portable and efficient occasional-use heating and cutting capacity. YMMV. I do also have a larger set of non-portable cylinders in the shop for general use, well-beyond what the OP said his expected use would be.

WWIIJeep, read his post again. He is not talking about a port a torch type setup he is talking about one of the mapp/propane/oxy bernzomatic setups that run on disposable cylinders. I agree, that the small refillable OA setups are handy and portable but the disposable ones are a money pit for any large work. IMHO.

 

[AndrewH]

I would look into a oxy/ ace porta torch set up. I have one in the service truck and it is very handy. Not great for cutting as it will run the tanks down rather quick. Great for heating stuff.

Agreed. I bought one and it has saved my *** more than once. I don't use it very often but when I do I'm very thankful that I bought it. I got my portatorch off CL for $150 everything included plus the bottles were even full! If you're going to only be using it a few times a year, I'd highly recommend it!

Andrew

 

[GoodEnough]

Thanks for the replies.

I am a beginner just doing small jobs on cars as a hobby,
and run into a frozen bolt once in a while.
Again, I might use the torch once a year
I don't want a whole "pro garage" caliber torches, nor do I have the space.

So, I ended up getting the Mapp/Pro for $65. I figured I'd pay more for the torch on a hose extension in case it's ever a tight fit. Seems easier than holding up the entire yellow tank. Meanwhile, I didn't realize how light the tank is!! Yea, refill tanks are $10. If I use it once to get a bolt free, and throw it in the garbage after, it will have paid for itself.

Good to know it takes 2 mins to heat up a bolt to red hot.
How many minutes will the yellow MAPP/Pro tank last?

 

[GoodEnough]

Also, are there general techniques to heating up a frozen bolt?
Heat the bolt head?
Heat the nut?
Heat the metal surrounding the bolt?
Heat everything?

 

[AndrewH]

Also, are there general techniques to heating up a frozen bolt?
Heat the bolt head?
Heat the nut?
Heat the metal surrounding the bolt?
Heat everything?

If the nut is frozen on a bolt, heat just the nut as best as you can. If the bolt is stuck in something threaded, heat the bolt head so that the bolt expands and try not to get much of the surrounding area. Best way to explain is to heat only the object that is frozen, be it a nut or bolt. That's what I've always done and never had a problem.

 

[s14kev]

All the folks suggesting oxy acet for this guy crack me up. It's like someone asking for an fuel efficient car to get to work in and someone else suggesting a new Porsche 918 spyder for them. Well it is hybrid right?

For heating stuck bolts the MAPP is fine. Good pick on the one with the hose. The heads attached to a bottle are a PITA since you have to keep the bottle upright.

 

[malibu101]

All the folks suggesting oxy acet for this guy crack me up. It's like someone asking for an fuel efficient car to get to work in and someone else suggesting a new Porsche 918 spyder for them. Well it is hybrid right?

For heating stuck bolts the MAPP is fine. Good pick on the one with the hose. The heads attached to a bottle are a PITA since you have to keep the bottle upright.

I don't know the numbers and don't feel like looking them up
but
any fuel gas mixed with oxygen gives a hotter flame than just fuel alone.

Often times with a "normal" Berz-O-Matic propane (MAPP/air is not much hotter than propane/air) torch not only is positioning difficult but the big whippy flame just heats up everything around where it's pointed.

Not saying the above can't work - but a really hot, concentrated point of heat (like with oxygen) will work MUCH better.
Get in, heat it before the surrounding metal absorbs too much heat, and get back out.

 

[rlitman]

It is partly about temperature, but also partly about concentration of heat.

An oxy/fuel flame is pencil sharp. Air/fuel flames are fingertip sharp at best, but the heat spread from a swirl torch is more like elbow sharp.

Now, with the correspondingly much higher temperature, you can heat what is in your path quickly, before the heat soaks through the rest of the part.

If you want to go mucking about heating everything in your path (and causing all sorts of damage) an air/fuel torch is just fine. And that does indeed have its uses.
But if you want to heat a nut without heating the bolt inside it, ONLY oxy/fuel will cut it (or an induction heater, once we leave the realm of torches).

 

[bobcatdan]

I just laugh at you guys ******* around with tinker toy torches.

 

[zkling]

I just laugh at you guys ******* around with tinker toy torches.

Why? What do you consider "tinker toy"? What do you use?

 

[GoodEnough]

All the folks suggesting oxy acet for this guy crack me up. It's like someone asking for an fuel efficient car to get to work in and someone else suggesting a new Porsche 918 spyder for them. Well it is hybrid right?

For heating stuck bolts the MAPP is fine. Good pick on the one with the hose. The heads attached to a bottle are a PITA since you have to keep the bottle upright.

Thank you. And yea, I read that the tank stops working if upside down, etc. Glad I made the right call on the $65.

I will have to see if the large flame is too imprecise.
If this works on 1 bolt, I will be happy and maybe buy something new.

As for your "overzealous forum" suggestions, you're going to love this

 

[WWIIjeep]

WWIIJeep, read his post again. He is not talking about a port a torch type setup he is talking about one of the mapp/propane/oxy bernzomatic setups that run on disposable cylinders. I agree, that the small refillable OA setups are handy and portable but the disposable ones are a money pit for any large work. IMHO.

I know what he asked for, but I was mainly responding to what you said:

O, don't mess with that tiny OA setup. It is super expensive to operate. A bottle of that oxy is ~$10 IIRC.

The "tiny OA setup" says "oxyacetylene port-a-torch" to me, not MAPP/Pro. Also because some other responders had mentioned oxyacetylene before your post. If you meant something else, then I misunderstood.

 

[zkling]

The "tiny OA setup" says "oxyacetylene port-a-torch" to me, not MAPP/Pro. Also because some other responders had mentioned oxyacetylene before your post. If you meant something else, then I misunderstood.

My apologies, I mis typed, I did indeed mean Mapp/Pro Oxy torch. Specifically by "That" The one the OP linked to in the last link, made by Bernzomatic.

 

[bobcatdan]

Why? What do you consider "tinker toy"? What do you use?

For mechanic work, oxy/ acet is only way to go.

 

[GoodEnough]

Let's put it this way, if I run into a stuck bolt, and I use the entire cannister to heat it up, I will have gladly paid $10 to get that bolt out. Still cheaper than paying $100/hr.

 

[mattygee]

I've used the handheld yellow bottle with the flex hose setup exclusively for automotive work with 100% success. Gets in tight places without having to invert the bottle. If you're getting into cutting stuff, like a lot of exhaust work, oxy/acy is a necessity, but for just general heat and beat, no need for tanks and carts.

 

[diggerrick]

I have the Oxy/MAP Magtorch, and it's hard keep lit and get adjusted. You use most of your oxygen just getting it set. A PITA that I rarely use.

 

[s14kev]

Not saying the above can't work - but a really hot, concentrated point of heat (like with oxygen) will work MUCH better.
Get in, heat it before the surrounding metal absorbs too much heat, and get back out.

Absolutely. Oxyacetylene will of course work much better. But thats comparing $300+ (once you purchase a set up and fill bottles) to $50.

I tried arguing that a Porsche 918 spyder would work MUCH better for getting me to work. It even gets better gas mileage than my current DD. But No Bueno.

On a side note, I have used MAPP for years on stuck bolts (suspension and engine typically) and have never felt the need for more. I would grab it first over dragging a heavy oxyacetylene set over.