Which crimping pliers (T&B)

[Krokodil]

Because nobody looked at a old thread I tried to resurrect on the subject, I thought I'd start a new one.

I'd like to buy one of these two pliers, but have one question. According to the specs, they can both do the same size non-insulated crimps. Why then has the only non-insulated crimp model two different size holes?

Are the non-insulated crimp die on the multipurpose pliers somewhere in between the other two dies on the other pliers?

Anyhow, which one?

 

[hofferwood]

Krokodil,
I've had these guys for 30 yrs. use for ins and nonins.
The wires crimped in those flat guys tend to pull out.
JMO
Chuck

 

[rburke65]

The upper pair. It gives you a choice of two size crips.

 

[JustBob]

Basically, they will both crimp the same sizes. The WT111M will crimp non insulated with a stronger mechanical connection than the WT112M. I personally would get the WT111M and if you need it get a high quality dedicated insulated crimper as well.

 

[premierplayer]

I have the top pair, work great, no issues.
More surface area on the 'U' shaped crimp = better holding power & more contact (as hofferwood above, edit: also JustBob)

 

[MaximRecoil]

The WT111M has two different sized anvil crimpers, while the WT112M has an anvil crimper and a flattened oval type crimper.

I use an anvil crimper for everything, insulated and non-insulated. Technically, an anvil crimper is supposed to be for non-insulated, and a flattened oval type crimper is supposed to be for insulated. Personally, I think the flattened oval type crimp is useless as teats on a bull, and they are never used for anything serious (i.e., a factory would never use one for anything).

The reason you are not technically supposed to use an anvil crimper on insulated terminals is because the anvil can damage (punch through) the insulation. I couldn't care less about that and I use the anvil crimper because the crimps they make are stronger than the wire itself (i.e., the wire would break long before it would ever pull free from the terminal).

If you want a dedicated insulated terminal crimper that makes professional, consistent crimps that look like the crimps made in factories, get a racheting die-based crimper, like the S&G Tool Aid 18900 Professional Ratcheting Terminal Crimper. That particular crimper is inexpensive and relatively high quality. This is what an electronic genius from an arcade forum that I frequent said about it:

"Excellent Ratcheting Crimper. Not sure why the other cheap crimpers even exist after using these."

I don't have a pair of those because like I said, I just use an anvil crimper like ones in your picture for everything (not pretty, but it definitely works), but I definitely trust this guy's judgment when it comes to electrical matters. For example, he reverse engineered a security board for a ~25 year old Nintendo arcade machine and designed and fabricated his own replacement circuit board, recreating the original logic using an FPGA that he programmed. It worked too; I know because he sent it to me to fully test it in my machine because I'm an expert at the game it is designed to be used for, while he can't get far enough in the game to really test it.

 

[OldHarley]

WT111M (Top pair). I have used one like it for 35 years that I bought on the recommendation of several electrical workers that used one like it. It works great on both insulated and non insulated connections!

If you get the other one, you might just as well use a rock to crimp.

 

[MaximRecoil]

If you get the other one, you might just as well use a rock to crimp.

Both of them have a small anvil-type crimper, so they can both work equally well for small terminals. The top one also has a larger anvil crimper, so it will work well for larger terminals (e.g. 10 AWG). The bottom one doesn't have a second larger anvil crimper; instead it has the worthless flattened oval type crimper behind the small anvil crimper which is supposed to be for insulated terminals.

I agree that he should get the top ones, but if he got the bottom ones, he could still crimp most terminals with the anvil; he just wouldn't have the larger anvil option.

 

[Krokodil]

Thanks guys! This is exactly the kind of info I was looking for. What a great forum!

 

[Roots]

Thanks guys! This is exactly the kind of info I was looking for. What a great forum!

Have you considered ordering the T&B ratcheting crimpers instead? They are significantly more, but if you're doing a lot of crimping, your hands will truly thank you over the years.

 

[rodm1]

WT111M will crack the insulated connectors that is the only problem with them. Whell worth the cash for one.

 

[hofferwood]

use a rock to crimp.

A Rock
Sorry just cracked me up
Chuck

 

[pl_silverado]

ratcheting, you wont look back.

here is my small arsenal

 

[Monte]

ratcheting, you wont look back.

here is my small arsenal

mmmhh nice ! Which brand ? The lower 3 look swedish ?

 

[peterbilr98]

ratcheting, you wont look back.

here is my small arsenal

i have the snap ons they are great and i have some kline crimpers not as good as the snap on but ok and 2 sets of ratcheting if you can get bolth

 

[Roots]

mmmhh nice ! Which brand ? The lower 3 look swedish ?

All three are T&B, Thomas and Betts. Great products as well, in fact I know of none better.

EDIT: I know the same exact crimpers are also now carried by Wiha, so they may be contract produced.

 

[Thedroid]

I've made many crimps with the flat INS notch, and have never had a problem. I give my crimps a pull, and have never had one come loose. What kind of terminals are you guys using? I like the T&B with the insulation grip. I do lots of control work, and go through a lot of terminals.

 

[Krokodil]

ratcheting, you wont look back.

here is my small arsenal

Those ER2 series crimpers are very nice, but at 6 times the cost of the pliers, I think not.

Besides I don't do 20 crimps every day.

 

[Toolhorder]

The WT111M has two different sized anvil crimpers, while the WT112M has an anvil crimper and a flattened oval type crimper.

I use an anvil crimper for everything, insulated and non-insulated. Technically, an anvil crimper is supposed to be for non-insulated, and a flattened oval type crimper is supposed to be for insulated. Personally, I think the flattened oval type crimp is useless as teats on a bull, and they are never used for anything serious (i.e., a factory would never use one for anything).

The reason you are not technically supposed to use an anvil crimper on insulated terminals is because the anvil can damage (punch through) the insulation. I couldn't care less about that and I use the anvil crimper because the crimps they make are stronger than the wire itself (i.e., the wire would break long before it would ever pull free from the terminal).

If you want a dedicated insulated terminal crimper that makes professional, consistent crimps that look like the crimps made in factories, get a racheting die-based crimper, like the S&G Tool Aid 18900 Professional Ratcheting Terminal Crimper. That particular crimper is inexpensive and relatively high quality. This is what an electronic genius from an arcade forum that I frequent said about it:

"Excellent Ratcheting Crimper. Not sure why the other cheap crimpers even exist after using these."

I don't have a pair of those because like I said, I just use an anvil crimper like ones in your picture for everything (not pretty, but it definitely works), but I definitely trust this guy's judgment when it comes to electrical matters. For example, he reverse engineered a security board for a ~25 year old Nintendo arcade machine and designed and fabricated his own replacement circuit board, recreating the original logic using an FPGA that he programmed. It worked too; I know because he sent it to me to fully test it in my machine because I'm an expert at the game it is designed to be used for, while he can't get far enough in the game to really test it.

Arcade forum? KLOV maybe?

 

[MaximRecoil]

Arcade forum? KLOV maybe?

Yeah, I linked to it in my post. The topic of wire crimpers comes up a lot over there because arcade machines are full of crimped connectors (lots of Molex connectors too, which require a specialty crimper). I have a crimper for .062" and .093" Molex pins, as well as a typical anvil-type crimper for standard terminals and splice caps. I also have a big anvil crimper (you pound it with a hammer; it is cheap but very effective) ...

... for very large terminals (e.g., 4 AWG - 2/0 AWG) due to my car audio hobby, which makes crimps that I doubt you could pull off with a truck. Here's a picture of a crimp I made with it on some 1/0 AWG wire:

 

[84bimmer]

Yeah, I linked to it in my post. The topic of wire crimpers comes up a lot over there because arcade machines are full of crimped connectors (lots of Molex connectors too, which require a specialty crimper). I have a crimper for .062" and .093" Molex pins, as well as a typical anvil-type crimper for standard terminals and splice caps. I also have a big anvil crimper (you pound it with a hammer; it is cheap but very effective) ...

... for very large terminals (e.g., 4 AWG - 2/0 AWG) due to my car audio hobby, which makes crimps that I doubt you could pull off with a truck. Here's a picture of a crimp I made with it on some 1/0 AWG wire:

YES! I've been looking for a cheap method of crimping 8 ga and bigger wires for car audio. This looks great! Where can I get one?

 

[MaximRecoil]

YES! I've been looking for a cheap method of crimping 8 ga and bigger wires for car audio. This looks great! Where can I get one?

You can get one here for $14. That might be the same place I got mine. I don't really remember, as I bought it about 6 years ago, but mine looks exactly like that one, and that is about what I paid as well. It is built very solidly; the anvil is 3/4" square solid steel and the body is made from 1/8" thick steel. I can't see it wearing out or breaking any time soon.

The size range marked on the anvil is 8 AWG to 4/0 AWG.

 

[84bimmer]

You can get one here for $14. That might be the same place I got mine. I don't really remember, as I bought it about 6 years ago, but mine looks exactly like that one, and that is about what I paid as well. It is built very solidly; the anvil is 3/4" square solid steel and the body is made from 1/8" thick steel. I can't see it wearing out or breaking any time soon.

The size range marked on the anvil is 8 AWG to 4/0 AWG.

Awesome! Thanks bud.

 

[Toolhorder]

Yeah, I linked to it in my post.

Yeah I was a regular poster there a couple years ago. Started going to the auctions and collecting then started a route and was making some money routing games, selling games, fixing games but when the economy turned so did the collecting market for selling machines then the route suffered and I'm down to just a couple locations and a handful of machines. I had like 48 machines at the peak.
I went by Rue on that forum.

 

[cnc-me]

Get the top pair (111's), insulated connectors are ****.
Just use heat shrink, on all your non insulated connectors.
My old pair of 111's jaw broke right off, after many years of use.
The new pair, has a longer wire cutter than the old ones which is nice.

 

[MaximRecoil]

Yeah I was a regular poster there a couple years ago. Started going to the auctions and collecting then started a route and was making some money routing games, selling games, fixing games but when the economy turned so did the collecting market for selling machines then the route suffered and I'm down to just a couple locations and a handful of machines. I had like 48 machines at the peak.
I went by Rue on that forum.

Small world (or small internet I should say). I've been posting on KLOV off and on since 2003. I have 4 machines: Super Punch-Out, Missile Command, Ikari Warriors, and Street Fighter II. The economy doesn't affect me because it has only ever been a personal hobby for me; I just have a few of the machines that I liked playing as a kid and don't do any selling or other business related things.

 

[Krokodil]

That is a huge crimper! I guess it is also good for instant finger amputations!

 

[MaximRecoil]

That is a huge crimper! I guess it is also good for instant finger amputations!

Are you talking about the hammer-on one I posted? If so, then yeah, it is quite big. I don't know about finger amputations (the big wire/cable cutters you need for cutting e.g. 1/0 AWG wire could easily amputate a finger though), but it is easy to nail your hand with the hammer if you're not careful, because you need to hold it in place with one hand and hammer against the anvil with the other. I only have a 16 oz. nail hammer which means I have to hit it quite a few times to reach to proper crimp depth, increasing the number of chances to hit my hand. One of those short-handled 2 or 3 lb. sledge hammers would work a lot better; should only need a couple of hits with one of those.

The best things about it are that it is cheap, simple, and very sturdy. The only drawback is that you need to be able to set it on a solid surface to hammer against, which means you usually can't use it on wires that are already in place somewhere; like already in a car (though you could probably make it work without a hammer using something like a balljoint press to slowly force the anvil to the proper crimping depth). Those giant pliers-type crimpers which are the size of bolt cutters are very expensive though, so this is a good alternative and really does make a quality crimp.

 

[usdemt]

I got lucky and got one of those large bolt cutter size crimpers for free from the hardware store I worked at. Saved me $200 and works great.

 

[pl_silverado]

mmmhh nice ! Which brand ? The lower 3 look swedish ?

The top one is Snap-on's 29CP , and you are correct, the lower three are thomas & betts erg-2001, erg-2002, and tbm25s ratcheting crimpers, all made in sweden

 

[MaximRecoil]

I got lucky and got one of those large bolt cutter size crimpers for free from the hardware store I worked at. Saved me $200 and works great.

Yeah, those are nice. I wouldn't use it enough to justify the cost, but I'd certainly take one for free, or even cheap.

 

[Monte]

All three are T&B, Thomas and Betts. Great products as well, in fact I know of none better.

EDIT: I know the same exact crimpers are also now carried by Wiha, so they may be contract produced.

i think the OEM is www.pressmaster.com from Sweden

The top one is Snap-on's 29CP , and you are correct, the lower three are thomas & betts erg-2001, erg-2002, and tbm25s ratcheting crimpers, all made in sweden

Thanks for the info that they are made in sweden !!
i think the OEM is www.pressmaster.com

 

[ToddyB]

I like 111's for uninsulated and ratcheting crimpers for insulated connectors. Specs for audio systems will call out the 111's and noninsulated connectors in many cases.

 

[Krokodil]

Thanks guys! I ordered the 111 last night. Can't wait for it to come.

 

[hofferwood]

Good choice Krokidil,
Hope you got a good price
My photo, #2 is what t/b's look like after 30yrs of use
Chuck

 

[cundifc]

How makes the anvil crimper?

 

[MaximRecoil]

How makes the anvil crimper?

If you are referring to the one I posted that you use a hammer with, mine is from Hobart. There are others that work the same way too, such as from Pico and E-Z Red. Those ones use a cast steel base/body, while the Hobart uses heavy gauge sheet metal (about 1/8" thick / 10 gauge steel) for the base/body.

 

[rsa]

ratcheting, you wont look back.

Amen—although your arsenal outguns my modest Sargent 4100. "This is not a crimper" was my introduction to ratcheting crimpers and I've never looked back either.

Stewart

 

[Krokodil]

Good choice Krokidil,
Hope you got a good price
My photo, #2 is what t/b's look like after 30yrs of use
Chuck

These things are expensive, so I hope to get at least 30 year's service from them!

 

[MaximRecoil]

Amen—although your arsenal outguns my modest Sargent 4100. "This is not a crimper" was my introduction to ratcheting crimpers and I've never looked back either.

Stewart

While I agree that ratcheting die-based crimpers are nice, there is nothing wrong with using non-insulated crimpers (like the WT111M posted by the OP) on an insulated terminal. From your link:

"The jaws that are marked Non-insulated in the right hand photo are the jaws of death for insulated connectors for several reasons...The most obvious is that they punch holes in the insulation. This is a very good utility crimper made by Ideal...if you use it. Use the die marked insulated please."

This is absurd. Yes, they do tend to punch a hole in the insulation, but so what? What are the odds of something that's grounded or otherwise part of the circuitry squirreling its way down into that little hole and causing a short? 1 in a trillion? If any circuitry is getting close to that terminal, the usually bare terminal-end itself is a far bigger target than that little hole.

He then goes on to say:

"Please note that jaws or dies in the photo below have a flat oval shape--no points. Points puncture the insulation and do not spread the crimp pressure over a broad surface. If your crimp pressure is all in one spot you can cut or crush some of the wire strands and weaken the crimp making the connection subject to a greater chance of failure from vibration."

That's also absurd. I've tried to pull the wires out of such crimps, and they simply will not come out (short of completely breaking the wire). Countless people use non-insulated style crimpers on insulated terminals without issue, including professional service places like garages and stereo installation shops. Real world results trump his gut feelings on the matter.