I have a small car collection and like to restore them myself. I am frequently using my mig for welding sheetmetal but I do not like the hardness and brittleness of the welds. I have done but welding with it but I thinking a nice tig welder would be better. Any recommendations? I am looking to spend 2-3K
Which tig welder should I buy
- Thread starter ng8264723
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Miller Dynasty's are a really sweet machine but you might be in lightly used territory with that price range. The other option would be an HTP221. If I was buying for work I would buy the miller. For home I would do the HTP (I just can't justify the cost of a dynasty for the amount of welding I do).
For car sheet metal a CK9 flex head torch would be my pick with the superflex cable.
If you get into heavier work then a CK20 with a watercooler.
Also just as a heads up - my preference would be TIG for just about anything. But you're looking at several hundred hours of hood time to be moderately proficient. IE not blowing holes into the thin stuff. So just make sure you're willing to make that time investment. It's worth it IMO.
For car sheet metal a CK9 flex head torch would be my pick with the superflex cable.
If you get into heavier work then a CK20 with a watercooler.
Also just as a heads up - my preference would be TIG for just about anything. But you're looking at several hundred hours of hood time to be moderately proficient. IE not blowing holes into the thin stuff. So just make sure you're willing to make that time investment. It's worth it IMO.
dr_clyde
Well-known member
Welding process has little to do with weld hardness and brittleness. Base metal, filler metal, time at temperatures and joint design are far bigger factors.
Most professional auto body work is done with a MIG welder.
If you really want a nice tig machine, I’m a big fan of the Miller Dynasty 200DX. It has the ability to go pretty low amps in comparison to a lot of inexpensive machines. But just using a tig machine won’t change the metallurgy of your welds.
Most professional auto body work is done with a MIG welder.
If you really want a nice tig machine, I’m a big fan of the Miller Dynasty 200DX. It has the ability to go pretty low amps in comparison to a lot of inexpensive machines. But just using a tig machine won’t change the metallurgy of your welds.
joe_padavano
Well-known member
Most crash-repair, insurance-grade auto body work is done with a MIG.
All high-end restoration shop auto body work is done with a TIG.
To the OP: how much do you plan to use this machine, and how good are your skills? I've got gas, MIG, and TIG, and I'm REALLY liking the TIG. If you can gas weld, you'll pick up TIG pretty quickly, but it really does take a lot of practice. Once you get it, you won't look back. I got one of the AlphaTIG units a couple of years ago, primarily for patch panels, but I'm now getting into building aluminum items as well. It's a really nice, cost-effective unit for home shop use. No, it's not a Miller or Lincoln, but it's half the price. The new 201 model even comes with a real foot pedal (I had to buy an aftermarket upgrade for my older unit). There are now several imported inverter TIGs that are comparable in that price range, so you have a choice.
We use Dynasty 350 and syncrowave 350s with water cooled torches at work with thumb controls and they are the bee's knees.
You don't need units that big or with water cooling but the thumb controls are a must for out of position stuff. Right now my team are welding up 400 racks that are 6 feet tall with 20 1/16 wall 3in tubes in them each and doing it with a pedal would never work as we are crawling all over and in these things to weld.
I would look into purging and backing fixtures so you don't blow holes with tig
You don't need units that big or with water cooling but the thumb controls are a must for out of position stuff. Right now my team are welding up 400 racks that are 6 feet tall with 20 1/16 wall 3in tubes in them each and doing it with a pedal would never work as we are crawling all over and in these things to weld.
I would look into purging and backing fixtures so you don't blow holes with tig
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
AlphaTIG machines have always gotten good reviews and they are <$1000.
joe_padavano
Well-known member
Quite a bit under $1000, in fact.
dmaxfireman
Well-known member
I have been using an Everlast 200DV after selling my Miller EconoTig. It has done everything I could ask of a Tig / Stick machine. Make sure you get an inverter machine and not a transformer if possible.
chrispyny
Well-known member
Primeweld has a huge Market for higher end chinese machines. On par or a bit better than alphatig. Tons of online reviews. Most if not all say ultimately with the ck worldwide torch and upgraded foot pedal, the primeweld is a far better machine. I actually bought one 3 months ago, and JUST yesterday got electrodes, a bottle of argon, and have a few more things on order. I hope to be burning in metal by next week.
The machine is $750? It’s a BARGAIN.
The machine is $750? It’s a BARGAIN.
dr_clyde
Well-known member
I worked in a high end auto restoration and custom shop for a few years. We used the TIG machine on sheet metal once in a blue moon, but the MIG was the workhorse. We did 6 figure restoration work and custom body work like suicide doors and stuff like that.
You get less panel distortion, far less heat input and less undercut with the MIG. The kind of welding that gets done in auto body isn’t conducive to the extended arc time of the TIG. Some really old school guys would gas weld aluminum panels that would get run in the planishing hammer, but any distortion was taken out in the hammer and English wheel.
For some reason folk like to parrot whatever they hear on the internet without actually having done it themselves. I’ve been there and worked in that industry.
I run a welding and machine shop. We have more advanced welding equipment than most folks. I would still run .023” easy grind wire in a short circuit MIG as my first and primary choice in even the most high end auto sheet metal work.
Willie Makeit
Well-known member
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- Dec 30, 2013
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Uh,sorry no. They don't.
I’m pretty happy with my primeweld tig. Great for stainless. Now I need to learn aluminum
I looked at everything under $1700. Wouldn’t buy another Lincoln. The miller option was strong but 2x the price.
Pretty happy with value for money and warranty can’t be beaten!
matt_i
Well-known member
I bought the Sync 250DX used from an auction.
Its been a fantastic welder despite me blowing up the water cooled radiator -- it froze when I had no heat in the shop despite me using the Miller coolant at full concentration...I fixed it by cutting out some aluminum fins and soldering the copper tubes back together. So its reduced in thermal capacity you might say but I can't detect the difference.
Thick and thin it does its job well, it stick welds when I have high-confidence parts. I don't expect to ever need to buy another one.
Its been a fantastic welder despite me blowing up the water cooled radiator -- it froze when I had no heat in the shop despite me using the Miller coolant at full concentration...I fixed it by cutting out some aluminum fins and soldering the copper tubes back together. So its reduced in thermal capacity you might say but I can't detect the difference.
Thick and thin it does its job well, it stick welds when I have high-confidence parts. I don't expect to ever need to buy another one.
This is what i am trying to accomplish. Check out the video. Start at 15minutes. I am tired of grinding mig welds. I can mig. I have two welders. I have been welding for 35 years with a mig. I am kinda sick of the roughness
BigMike782
Well-known member
Miller Multimatic 220 AC/DC!
camaro77
Active member
everlast
BassProCamaro97
Well-known member
Watching closely as I'm in the market for my first TIG as well. Was looking at a Synchrowave and Dynasty. Leaning towards a dynasty now when the funds allow
Alpha-TIG 200X seems like a great machine and very affordable too----well below your budget. Read some reviews and watch some vids on it and see what you think.
I almost bought one, but wanted MIG too, so I ended up with the Miller Multimatic 215. However, I can't TIG aluminum with my Miller, as the 200X can.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/AHP-Alp...VT77ACh3urQR6EAQYBCABEgJ3OvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
I almost bought one, but wanted MIG too, so I ended up with the Miller Multimatic 215. However, I can't TIG aluminum with my Miller, as the 200X can.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/AHP-Alp...VT77ACh3urQR6EAQYBCABEgJ3OvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
BigMike782
Well-known member
Again,
https://www.millerwelds.com/equipme...ltimatic-220-ac-dc-multiprocess-welder-m30190
Having used the ESAB Rebel 205 and the Multimatic 220 AC/DC along with 30 other machines in the last 15 yrs, I can say that the 220 AC/DC is the real deal.
All functions run very nice, two gas solenoids so no changing back and forth to change processes, uses same 14 pin controls as most other Miller equipment.
Multi process is almost always a compromise but not the 220 AC/DC.
Sounds like a Miller ad?......try the machine out it will sell you.
https://www.millerwelds.com/equipme...ltimatic-220-ac-dc-multiprocess-welder-m30190
Having used the ESAB Rebel 205 and the Multimatic 220 AC/DC along with 30 other machines in the last 15 yrs, I can say that the 220 AC/DC is the real deal.
All functions run very nice, two gas solenoids so no changing back and forth to change processes, uses same 14 pin controls as most other Miller equipment.
Multi process is almost always a compromise but not the 220 AC/DC.
Sounds like a Miller ad?......try the machine out it will sell you.
steel 35
Well-known member
Watch the technique used with mig (Wrong) in every place, way.
SamuraiJack
Well-known member
Get a Miller Multimatic 215 with the tig kit and spool gun. it sure is nice just having one machine in a 2 car garage and it can do everything.
hilld
Well-known member
That multimatic machine looks interesting. I have an older Miller multiprocess welder XMT304 that does not do DC tig, so Al is out for me. Also the machine is humongous especially with an external MIG feeder. That MM appears to be nice and compact....might have to save up some nickels for Santa.
Heres my 2 cents. Coming from an experienced fabricator stand point that is looking for a new multi process machine. The esab rebel 205ic or the everlast lightning 225mts. Both machines offer all processes including ac tig. Which is vital for any nice looking aluminum work. Miller has a multiprocess machine but your going to pay double for it because its blue. As far as machine quality ive never ran an everlast and only know them from youtube vids and demos.i also have little experience with esab as well. I just cant justify a red or blue machine for my hobby. If it was for my job i probably would be buying red or blue just for the fact i can get service and parts for them easier.
I bought one of these 2 years ago. Replaced the sketchy foot pedal and good to go. Already have a Miller mig. No regrets about the Alpha at all.
That's the one I have. Nice machine.
Capt Chrysler
Well-known member
I did the Prime Weld tig.
The technology is stabilized.
Anything but a bottom of the barrel priced unit will do. And even many of those will do.
Red and blue are preying on giving financing to unfinancable folks and hoping they never look elsewhere. Just like tool trucks.
I think op has a want and not a need.
And I think, as always, Google warriors love welding threads.
It's so easy to show your ***/lack of knowledge in a welding thread and yet they persist.
You all sort out who is who.
If name brand is the answer and not a financing ploy, where's the red/blue 10 year warranty?(if they were indeed lifetime machines they could at least up the warranty to something spectacularly worthy or the lifetime machine).
Why do so many name brand tool and welding machine owners here mention such great customer service? How do they know?
Anything but a bottom of the barrel priced unit will do. And even many of those will do.
Red and blue are preying on giving financing to unfinancable folks and hoping they never look elsewhere. Just like tool trucks.
I think op has a want and not a need.
And I think, as always, Google warriors love welding threads.
It's so easy to show your ***/lack of knowledge in a welding thread and yet they persist.
You all sort out who is who.
If name brand is the answer and not a financing ploy, where's the red/blue 10 year warranty?(if they were indeed lifetime machines they could at least up the warranty to something spectacularly worthy or the lifetime machine).
Why do so many name brand tool and welding machine owners here mention such great customer service? How do they know?
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WordMan
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Look into gas welding. It makes a nice weld without the hardening of a MIG, but it seems to be easier to work with thin sheetmetal than a TIG.
As for a good, affordable TIG, I got this one (and like it very much):
https://www.eastwood.com/tig200acdc.html
dr_clyde
Well-known member
Maybe. Lots of home hobby shop welding is pretty basic and not very demanding of the equipment so you might get lucky with a dice roll on a cheap welder. But I’m not that much of a gambler.
As far as I’m aware, none of the major welding manufacturers offer financing on the smaller machines, just the large industrial customers. I think Miller has a minimum of 5k financed, and the rates aren’t very good. They also don’t push it. Like, at all. I wouldn’t call it predatory financing in any way.
Customer service is more than just support for broken machines too. It’s consumables being stocked locally, resources and training, and access to services like salesman support. Broken equipment is not always the fault of the manufacturer. A loader operator dropped my gang box 8 feet off a loader bucket with my Miller Maxstar in it. Miller took care of it no problem, even with full disclosure that I was at fault. When I bought my Invision, Miller sent a welding engineer out to my shop with my salesman and he helped set it up and look at dialing it in for my application. These companies exist and thrive because they consistently make good quality products and take care of their customers.
Red and blue also have a pretty dang good warranty. Miller’s is 3 years, which is a really long time in the world of production welding equipment. Every company makes things that break or need service. Nothing is perfect.
I buy Miller equipment because I can depend on it to not only earn my living, but the livelihoods of the employees I have. Why wouldn’t I want to recommend what works and is well made? I wouldn’t recommend something I would never buy for myself.
'I wouldn’t recommend something I would never buy for myself.'
I certainly would recommend what I wouldn't buy myself. Partly because he's a hobbiest and partly because he hasn't figured even what wire to use on the rig he has.
I wouldn't recommend a diesel pusher to someone who wants their first motorhome. But I'd buy one.
I wouldn't recommend a bennelli super black eagle for a first sbotgun. But I'd buy one.
I wouldn't recommend an expensive welding machine for someone who might just need a wire change and is worried only about weld hardness all while I didn't begin to think of the learning curve a tig presents when all he needs is NOT buy a tig and learn about welding instead. He said 'I think a tig would be better'. I don't think you agree, or anyone would agree that a tig would be better. He didn't say 'I definitely am buying a tig. Which one do I buy?'
I wouldn't reccomend a viper because I can drive one. I mean, a stick shift is the same in a tercel as in a viper....
The flavor of questions always needs analyzed.
No need to recommend a gas powered nail gun to someone building an occasional dog house.
Expert opinion often means expertly sizing up the question.
A tig isn't a good fit for him. I think you'll agree. But an inexpensive one will sate his want.
A blue or red needn't be your first tig welder. If he outgrows lesser tig welders then he can step up. I don't think you'll agree.
I certainly would recommend what I wouldn't buy myself. Partly because he's a hobbiest and partly because he hasn't figured even what wire to use on the rig he has.
I wouldn't recommend a diesel pusher to someone who wants their first motorhome. But I'd buy one.
I wouldn't recommend a bennelli super black eagle for a first sbotgun. But I'd buy one.
I wouldn't recommend an expensive welding machine for someone who might just need a wire change and is worried only about weld hardness all while I didn't begin to think of the learning curve a tig presents when all he needs is NOT buy a tig and learn about welding instead. He said 'I think a tig would be better'. I don't think you agree, or anyone would agree that a tig would be better. He didn't say 'I definitely am buying a tig. Which one do I buy?'
I wouldn't reccomend a viper because I can drive one. I mean, a stick shift is the same in a tercel as in a viper....
The flavor of questions always needs analyzed.
No need to recommend a gas powered nail gun to someone building an occasional dog house.
Expert opinion often means expertly sizing up the question.
A tig isn't a good fit for him. I think you'll agree. But an inexpensive one will sate his want.
A blue or red needn't be your first tig welder. If he outgrows lesser tig welders then he can step up. I don't think you'll agree.
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WordMan
ALLIANCE MEMBER
dr_clyde
Well-known member
All that after just claiming that red and blue were predatory lenders with bad warranties and that the bottom of the barrel is appropriate. Just slamming on red/blue without acknowledging their very real merits.
Lincoln and Miller make entry level machines that cost HALF his budget. A very real step up from the cheap seats for not a lot of money.
I don’t think TIG is the right answer for the OP. But that doesn’t mean I won’t defend my viewpoint. Especially since others read these threads who may be shopping for a TIG.
My first tig was a Dynasty. I still have and use it. Buy once cry once. I put my money where my mouth is.
Some of us like owning nice things. I never will recommend buying products I don’t believe in. I don’t really care how cheap the are.
Lincoln and Miller make entry level machines that cost HALF his budget. A very real step up from the cheap seats for not a lot of money.
I don’t think TIG is the right answer for the OP. But that doesn’t mean I won’t defend my viewpoint. Especially since others read these threads who may be shopping for a TIG.
My first tig was a Dynasty. I still have and use it. Buy once cry once. I put my money where my mouth is.
Some of us like owning nice things. I never will recommend buying products I don’t believe in. I don’t really care how cheap the are.
sberry
Banned
I think the gamble is on the better machine. The fear is more profitable than the reality. I think it has stabilized or get to g really close. A while back the margins or ratios were not there but the import has got so much better and so much cheaper and now lots of actual use. Guy here said they now are using the Everlast vs the Maxstars. Cheap used to be 1/2 price, 60% or so and now below 30.
sberry
Banned
The gamble is now if the premium will last long enuf before it shits a board makes it scrap. I got a compulsive but buys an Everlast 5 years ago,,, runs the **** out of it, moaning cause a part is 300 for a machine he paid 500 for 5 years ago,, I said,,, duh, get every part new,,, 500$. Cost 100 a year to own. Brand would have been 500 a year.
sberry
Banned
I agree with duck about expert opinion,,, or value added opinion so to speak. It's rather relative. Some stuff we thought we would get value out at a year,, some now 20 years and still in service and now right next to the premium. Makes the ROI almost instant or often earn it's keep in a single event.
30 yrs ago would have never said some of it be fit for our road work where we have limited tools under the most stress. We worked a HF breaker bar with 2 and 3 strong men for an hour all we could get on it. Saved gas to go get a better tool, 12 dollar tool earned 50$, 2 times it's cost in one use.
30 yrs ago would have never said some of it be fit for our road work where we have limited tools under the most stress. We worked a HF breaker bar with 2 and 3 strong men for an hour all we could get on it. Saved gas to go get a better tool, 12 dollar tool earned 50$, 2 times it's cost in one use.
dr_clyde
Well-known member
For some folks, cost is everything. Absolutely everything. Nothing else matters but how cheap can I get away with it. I can’t imagine living my life this way. If I want something, I don’t really care what it costs. It’s just a number that tells me how hard I have to work for it.
I look at cost maybe 4th or 5th. Functionality is first. Then service from a dealer. Then parts/consumables availability, sometimes comfort or features, then maybe I’ll start looking at the price.
When I buy ANYTHING, I start with what the absolute best of the best of the best is and then work backwards from there. Not the other way around.
The whole ROI thing is pretty ******** when it’s a hobby. You’re not making any money with it, how can it return on an investment? If you are making money with it, you’d know that investment in disposable machines isn’t a good long term plan.
I know. This is a hobby board. No one here wants to actually buy and use good quality equipment unless they bought it for a steal at an estate sale.
My views on tools and equipment get **** on pretty regular here. But whatever. When I want opinions on weight loss I don’t ask the fat guy. I ask the fit dude. When I want opinions on trim carpentry tools, I ask the pro trim carpenter not the guy who did one room in his house. When people ask opinions on welding equipment, I feel I’m qualified to answer, as I run a profitable welding business. If you don’t want to take my advice, that’s fine. But don’t act like I’m wrong just because it may not apply to you or your situation.
I look at cost maybe 4th or 5th. Functionality is first. Then service from a dealer. Then parts/consumables availability, sometimes comfort or features, then maybe I’ll start looking at the price.
When I buy ANYTHING, I start with what the absolute best of the best of the best is and then work backwards from there. Not the other way around.
The whole ROI thing is pretty ******** when it’s a hobby. You’re not making any money with it, how can it return on an investment? If you are making money with it, you’d know that investment in disposable machines isn’t a good long term plan.
I know. This is a hobby board. No one here wants to actually buy and use good quality equipment unless they bought it for a steal at an estate sale.
My views on tools and equipment get **** on pretty regular here. But whatever. When I want opinions on weight loss I don’t ask the fat guy. I ask the fit dude. When I want opinions on trim carpentry tools, I ask the pro trim carpenter not the guy who did one room in his house. When people ask opinions on welding equipment, I feel I’m qualified to answer, as I run a profitable welding business. If you don’t want to take my advice, that’s fine. But don’t act like I’m wrong just because it may not apply to you or your situation.
dr_clyde
Well-known member
Thanks, but I haven’t really forgotten anything. I just am this way. I do this with all my hobbies too.
It is for sure a balance of money. Some people can’t or won’t spend the money on a hobby. And that fine.
But I want to provide the perspective that I would want when seeking advice. They has to be a few guys like me who wants to see what a pro welder recommends. And maybe they dial it back a notch or two from what I would buy. But they at least know WHY I recommend what I do.
No one blinks an eye when a guy drops 50 grand on a classic muscle car or a race car here. Why do we assume a guy won’t spend 2k on a welding machine? Especially when they say they have the money in the budget for one?