Which way should a door open?

[Bamafan]

I am in the process of having a garage built on the back of my house (here is a link to my build thread: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=368982&showall=1 ).

I'd like to leverage your expertise to answer this question: Which way should a door open?

If you take a look at the lower left hand corner of the attached, you will see two man doors: One at the front of the garage that opens into a stairway landing and a second that opens from that landing into the garage. I'm a bit surprised that the architect drew it so that the doors could hit each other. I asked him why the entrance door did not swing out and he said "no reason" and agreed to change it.

HOWEVER, I've walked around my neighborhood and seen that every man door opens inward.

Is there a reason for this? I would think that you would naturally want entrance doors to swing outward in case there was an emergency and had to get out quickly. But is there some "standard" way of doing things that I am missing?

 

[850xpeps]

Exterior doors usually swing in so the wind don't grab them and rip them off. There's no issue with them swingin out just as long as on a windy day you hold onto it so it don't rip off.


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[Hilltopmasonry]

Commercial doors all have to swing out for an egress escape however residential usually swings in. Doors that swing out are more secure because essentially they can't be kicked in

Doors that swing and hit each other are goofy


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[alwaysFlOoReD]

I installed an outswing on my house because the landing was too small. Make sure the hinges are correct for exterior outswing [burglar proof]. And yes, the wind catches it. I've been meaning to put a short chain on it like the storm doors use.

 

[73fxe]

It will cost almost double to have a exterior door custom built to swing out. If your interior door swings into the garage it might hit a car.

 

[LeonardY]

In part it's because hinges are on the inside of the house. So the door swings in. If you have a door that swings out on a residential home then you need to buy hinges that have the hinge pins that can't be pulled out.
The other reason is you have to push a door out so if someone comes to your door, they need to stand back so they don't get hit by you opening the door.
Mostly it's because swing out doors aren't the norm so you have to special order them. And the selection is somewhat limited.

 

[PT Doc]

I would change the bottom left door to be a left hand swing and change the upper left door to open inward.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Commercial doors all have to swing out for an egress escape however residential usually swings in. Doors that swing out are more secure because essentially they can't be kicked in

Doors that swing and hit each other are goofy


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Technically by code, I believe it actually depends on the occupancy size of the business. However, I think most are installed with out swinging doors when built or brought up to code (during remodel) as it's more cost effective "now rather than later"

For the record though, the AHJ will make the decision on the doors.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I would change the bottom left door to be a left hand swing and change the upper left door to open inward.

What I would recommend. The door swinging into the garage portion, I'd hang on the opposite side. The dog leg in the wall will be about useless I'd think and be perfect for the door handle to "recess" into.


edit:
So if I'm looking at the drawing and thinking this right in my mind, both would be left hung inswing doors.

 

[rnscustom]

Usually swing in , storm doors are an issue to if you want them . Entrance to the stairs left hand swing in , ideally to me doors should open to the space you are going to walk towards ( open space not a wall facing you when you open the door ) .

 

[Hilltopmasonry]

Technically by code, I believe it actually depends on the occupancy size of the business. However, I think most are installed with out swinging doors when built or brought up to code (during remodel) as it's more cost effective "now rather than later"



For the record though, the AHJ will make the decision on the doors.

Yes you are right sometimes "light duty" commercial might swing in or if there is an issue with where the door swings out to like a sidewalk or alley it might be required to be an inswing


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[Thumper68]

I put a commercial out swing door on my shop, for 2 reasons, 1 it does not take up floor space in the shop, 2 for security much harder to open a out swing door.

Of course I also spec'd dead bolts that have 2 bolts, one traditional into the jamb (2 dead bolts) top sends the second bolt into the top of the steel frame and the bottom lock has the second bolt going into the floor.

Like mentioned you need special hinges where the pin can not be removed.

 

[tab2]

If it is on the egress path the doors must swing in the direction of the egress path, regardless of occupants or use groups. Occupant load and use determines how many exits are needed and their sizes (double or single door). This is from MA commercial experience.

I would change the from exterior to stairwell door to a LH and from stairwell to garage to a RH. Especially if whatever door width you have for stairwell to garage is less than the wall space between the demising wall from the stairwell to the OHD opening.

Handing chart attached to identity all door swings.

 

[shelteredV]

The top door looks like it works well as a left outswing, as you have it. If it was me, I would do the other door as a right outswing. With the stairwell right there, an outswing would give the most freedom IMHO.
tab2- you're thinking too much like a commercial application, it's a residence, it doesn't have to conform to the same codes.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Exterior doors usually swing in so the wind don't grab them and rip them off. There's no issue with them swingin out just as long as on a windy day you hold onto it so it don't rip off.

My son has had his screen door broken away from the jam TWICE in 5 years because of wind. He keeps it locked now.

 

[rnscustom]

Well understood swing is back towards the hinge the hand that swings free is the swing of the door

 

[rnscustom]

I'm doing a commercial building in Boston right now and all but one of the doors swing in . Grandfathered historic . But most residences I work on on the hill doors swing out . Not sure if it is code or not .

 

[The Cobbler]

the hinges you would use are called NRP hinges. ( non removable pins)
the door you would order would be called either a left hand or right hand reverse door.

 

[ard]

IMO it is easier to waterproof (water tight?) a door that swings in:

The sealing plane is the jamb that the door closes onto, so in an outswing, the entire door is in the weather- the seal is the inside surface of the door.

When it swings in, the sealing plane is the outside surface of the door which closes against the jamb molding and gaskets. The door itself (edges, etc) is not exposed to the weather.

If it is sheltered from rain, like in a vestibule or overhang, then less of an issue

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

I'd reverse both of those doors. I'd want it so I could prop both doors open from the outside to the stairs or garage (and between the garage and stairs).

 

[NUTTSGT]

If it is on the egress path the doors must swing in the direction of the egress path, regardless of occupants or use groups. Occupant load and use determines how many exits are needed and their sizes (double or single door). This is from MA commercial experience.

Although it is irrelevant to the OP as his garage is residential, unless it is covered by the IBC and required by the AHJ.


From the 2015 IBC,

1010.1.2.1 Direction of swing

Pivot or side-hinged swinging doors shall swing in the direction of egress travel where serving a room or area containing an occupant load of 50 or more persons or a Group H occupancy. (Group H would be High Hazard)

While what you state may be required in Mass, if they are more restrictive than the IBC, it does not conform to the IBC. It merely proves that the AHJ does have the final say. When our fellow members ask for locations to assist in giving advice, this can be part of the reason. The AHJ (authority having jurisdiction) makes the final call on the building standards.

As far as to what the architect drew up, he may not have any real world experience and that's why he gave no reason for it. To him, a garage may be just a "place to park" while the rest of us think of it as a place to save money with the work we do or just to refrain from losing our sanity.

 

[CJ7VFR]

I would change the bottom left door to be a left hand swing and change the upper left door to open inward.

This is what I would do also.

The way it is currently shown in the OP's post, if you wanted to bring something into the garage via the man doors, you could not open them both up at the same time to just carry your stuff into the garage from the driveway. You would have to open the man door from the driveway first, go into the landing, put your stuff down, close that man door, then open the other man door that goes into the garage, pick up your stuff again, and then go into the garage. That is not going to be fun to try to do with stuff in your hands or if you are carrying something heavy.

If the man door from the driveway was hinged on the left and opened up to the inside, it would open up against the outer wall in the landing and it would not block anything.

And if the man door from the landing to the garage was hinged left (as it is shown) but opened up to the inside of the garage, it would open up against the small wall between the man door and the garage door. That seems like that way would also not block anything or hit any car that was parked in that spot if that small wall is wide enough.

Then you could open both doors at once and have unobstructed access to the garage via the man doors.

Just my opinion, but that seems to be the best way to do it without the use of expensive and harder to get outward swinging exterior doors.

Jim

 

[ard]

I would have the ENTRY door open in, but flip the hinge to the other side (so when open, it is against the wall and out of the way)

I would rever the opening of the door to the shop- leave the hinge side were it is, but have it open inwards. When open, it might come close to the door track, but a simple stop will deal with that. When open it will be relatively out of the way- plus as you think about walking to the door, opening and exiting, it is a more direct path.

So think about the doors not just in static scenarios, 'where will it open to', but imagine you walking in or out and how your body will move as you open, navigate and close the doors. Times 10,000 trips.


OT story. 30 years ago I was dating my now wife. She was in a one bdrm apartment. There was a decent sized storage closet at the end of the hall, like 4x6ft. But the door opened IN. Drove me crazy. This was a big apartment complex, all the untis were done the same way pretty much.

I said "I can fix that". She looked at me like I was nuts, said "well, I dont want to lose my deposit..."

I popped the mouldings, remove the frame, spun it around. Remounted the frame, leveled, plumbed and shimmed. Putty holes, touch up paint. Doubled the size of the closet storage area.

She later said "This one is a keeper"

 

[unlvrebel]

I put a commercial out swing door on my shop, for 2 reasons, 1 it does not take up floor space in the shop, 2 for security much harder to open a out swing door.

Of course I also spec'd dead bolts that have 2 bolts, one traditional into the jamb (2 dead bolts) top sends the second bolt into the top of the steel frame and the bottom lock has the second bolt going into the floor.

Like mentioned you need special hinges where the pin can not be removed.

Really? I think with a good oscillating multi and a good drill I would make short work of a swing out door. Only need to get through an inch of material at the deadbolt and the latch... The only thing holding it at that point would be a chain if equipped...

A swing in door you'd need to get through the entire door jamb at all security points...

 

[johnnyradiant]

Although it is irrelevant to the OP as his garage is residential, unless it is covered by the IBC and required by the AHJ.


From the 2015 IBC,

1010.1.2.1 Direction of swing

Pivot or side-hinged swinging doors shall swing in the direction of egress travel where serving a room or area containing an occupant load of 50 or more persons or a Group H occupancy. (Group H would be High Hazard)

While what you state may be required in Mass, if they are more restrictive than the IBC, it does not conform to the IBC. It merely proves that the AHJ does have the final say. When our fellow members ask for locations to assist in giving advice, this can be part of the reason. The AHJ (authority having jurisdiction) makes the final call on the building standards.

As far as to what the architect drew up, he may not have any real world experience and that's why he gave no reason for it. To him, a garage may be just a "place to park" while the rest of us think of it as a place to save money with the work we do or just to refrain from losing our sanity.

Direction of egress in a building is the designated corridors not the offices/rooms that you are egressing from. You wouldn't leave an office or other room opening the door out into the hallway. You could be taking out too many people with the door they never saw coming. The room doors would still open in and the prescribed, required exits, would open out.

 

[Radix2]

This is what I would do also.

The way it is currently shown in the OP's post, if you wanted to bring something into the garage via the man doors, you could not open them both up at the same time to just carry your stuff into the garage from the driveway. You would have to open the man door from the driveway first, go into the landing, put your stuff down, close that man door, then open the other man door that goes into the garage, pick up your stuff again, and then go into the garage. That is not going to be fun to try to do with stuff in your hands or if you are carrying something heavy.

If the man door from the driveway was hinged on the left and opened up to the inside, it would open up against the outer wall in the landing and it would not block anything.

And if the man door from the landing to the garage was hinged left (as it is shown) but opened up to the inside of the garage, it would open up against the small wall between the man door and the garage door. That seems like that way would also not block anything or hit any car that was parked in that spot if that small wall is wide enough.

Then you could open both doors at once and have unobstructed access to the garage via the man doors.

Just my opinion, but that seems to be the best way to do it without the use of expensive and harder to get outward swinging exterior doors.

Jim

This.

And any "architect" that places a door that opens over other door openings is...not an architect.

What is he drew is completely nuts.

 

[Trey T]

It's cheaper and available w/ the in-swing at your local store. The threshold and hinge is different.

For security, get out-swing, otherwise just go w/ the typical in-swing.

 

[Ret Nailbender]

If you live in a snow area, snow could prevent a outswing door from opening.

 

[6768rogues]

Inswing doors allow use of a standard screen door, do not have to be equipped with welded pin hinges, and in northern climates do not have to push snow to open.
Most codes require outswing doors in commercial use with an occupancy level of 50 or more people.
Many houses in south FL have outswing doors so hurricanes can't blow them open.

 

[Bamafan]

Thanks, folks! This dialog really helped me think it through.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Thanks, folks! This dialog really helped me think it through.

It's what we are here for and why this is such an awesome site. There are so many knowledgeable guy (and women) that are more than willing to provide information and advice.

Sometimes you just have to stop and try to vision what you have and what you need. Go out back and step inside the doorway and visualize where the doors are hung, which way they swing and what they will swing up against.

If you need to, grab a piece of chalk and string and draw out the swing paths of the doors if that'll help you.