To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Which workshop? 20x40 or 36x47

INTMD8

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2013
Messages
314
Location
Lake Villa Il.
Hello everyone, I'm hoping to tap into your collective experience.

I build project cars for myself and have outgrown my current 3 car garage.

My girlfriend and I have just bought a new place with a 2 car attached (just for our daily cars), a 20x40 and also a 36x47.

My first thought was to use the 20x40 as the workshop as it is already insulated and has a bit taller ceiling. (10.5ft I believe). I would probably scissor truss the back half and center the 2 post lift.

I'm wondering however, will there be enough room on either side of the car to have benches and work comfortably.

Next option is to use the 36x47 for the shop and just keep the 20x40 for storage but it is a steel building with no insulation and lower ceiling. Not sure what I would even need to do with the trusses to get my 2 post lift in there plus there are insulation and heating costs to consider.

Any suggestions? Any input is appreciated!!!

-Jim

Here are a few pics. Cars are not mine, they are from the previous owner.

20x40-

mkq1.jpg


36x47-

rnth.jpg
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

dwm

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 28, 2010
Messages
861
Location
Southeast Michigan
I think you answered your own question. :) If the 20x40 is basically ready to go other than installing the lift and getting organized, that's where I'd go.

I personally wouldn't center the 2-post lift side-to-side if that's what you meant. My own experience says that space in the front and rear is more important for the uses of a 2-post. Want plenty of room for the engine hoist, room to pull a transmission or rear subframe or rear engine or whatever out the rear, etc. The posts and arms block easy access from the sides anyway (you won't be rolling a transmission out the side, for example). But it's a preference thing and if you can't do it with your ceiling height...

Do whatever you'd like and post pictures! My best advice would be to spend some time designing the shop layout before executing it. From lighting to storage to lift location to HVAC. It'll pay off in the long run, and it's a lot harder to rearrange once everything is unpacked and being used.

You can always put another short 2-post or scissor lift in the 36x47 later for stuff like brake jobs, wheel swaps, door/rocker work, detailing, etc. Or use that space for all the dusty and/or overspray-riddled work?
 
OP
I

INTMD8

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2013
Messages
314
Location
Lake Villa Il.
dwm- Appreciate the insight. So you would bias the lift towards one side so you have room on one side for benches and tools? I am trying to get it planned out all in advance which is why I was curious to hear from others. (if it was the consensus that 20ft wide would be too cramped for example). Seems like it might be ok if arranged properly.

vovka- not so much a problem as a dilemma. :)

mr overdunne- I must know you because that's too random to be a lucky guess. Ferrari was sold to help finance the Cadillac btw.
 

78Bird

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 23, 2010
Messages
528
Location
Charlotte, NC
IMO, setup the 20x40 as workshop and do minimum to make the 36x47 acceptable storage. It has concrete, so I'd look at some shelving or cabinets for parts and go with it, if what is there isn't enough.

20x40 is a good big space for work if you don't have to worry about storing all the random STUFF in there as well.

I envy your 'problem'
 

nosnerd

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
206
Location
ottawa
agreed.. work in the insulated one." clean " minor jobs and car storage in large shop
 

dwm

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 28, 2010
Messages
861
Location
Southeast Michigan
dwm- Appreciate the insight. So you would bias the lift towards one side so you have room on one side for benches and tools? I am trying to get it planned out all in advance which is why I was curious to hear from others. (if it was the consensus that 20ft wide would be too cramped for example). Seems like it might be ok if arranged properly.

vovka- not so much a problem as a dilemma. :)

mr overdunne- I must know you because that's too random to be a lucky guess. Ferrari was sold to help finance the Cadillac btw.

Yes, I would put it to one side because ideally you have lots of clearance front and back of a car on the lift to roll things out from the front and rear. So it's going to wind up somewhat centered front-to-rear for optimal access. If you also center it side to side, you'll wind up consuming a lot of space for the lift or being cramped when you need to do something like remove an engine and entire drivetrain of a RWD car. In a dealer service garage, it's really no problem to have one end of the lift near tool cabinets because a car doesn't typically have major work done on both ends and they rarely pull engines or transmissions versus the zillion other things. For us weekend warriors, a car could be on the lift for months or longer and have major work done on both ends before it can move under its own power again. Put roller cabinet(s) with automotive tools on the wall in front of the lift (furthest from the garage door). If you need more space in front of a vehicle on the lift, you can roll the cabinet(s) out of the way. But you can't move a wall on a whim, and you need access from front and rear to get the big jobs done with the car remaining on the lift.

But that's just my preference.

Others are correct... keep the 20x40 as working space and you should be just fine. Keep the stuff you don't use regularly in the other garage. Use the space effectively and keep reminding yourself that it's a work space, not a storage space. That last part can go a long way toward retaining comfortable working space. Every few months I try to scan my shelves, slatwall, GearWall, FastTrack, etc. and find items I haven't used in a while and have no immediate plans to use. Those items get moved to the basement, sold, gifted, thrown away, whatever. As does everything that isn't a tool or a regularly-used consumable. I also shuffle some things seasonally. In your case, I'd move them to the other garage. Extra T8 bulbs? Case(s) of shop towels? Bottles of Kresto and Cupran for the dispensers? Scrap wood/metal? Cases of WD-40, brake parts cleaner, acetone, denatured alcohol, mineral spirits, extra gas cans, cases of motor oil, paint prep, etc.? Don't keep them in the workshop. Keep just enough in there to not have to go to the other space to get more in the middle of a job. Keep the handtruck or whatever you use to move things from the other garage in that other garage.

You can make effective use of wall space even with the lift close to the wall on one side. Put up some slatwall or GearWall or the like and you'll have a lot of options. Also a good spot for an air tool rack to hold impacts, air drill, die grinders, inflator, air saw, air chisel, pneumatic random orbitals, etc. And depending on your setup, your MIG gear, plasma cutter, etc. can be fit in a fairly small space if you plan it.

I've seen a lot of cluttered garages over the years that have a lot of unutilized space. And I've seen a lot of well-utilized ones here in this forum and in person. For the cluttered ones, 9 times out of 10 it's because too much stuff is sitting on the floor while the walls are bare from 6' up or have cabinets that aren't suitable for storing what's in the garage (cabinets are half empty because stuff won't fit in them). If it were me (and we're really good here at telling you how to spend your $$$ :)), I'd cover the walls on the lift side of the garage with slatwall, either wood with metal reinforcing inserts or one of the many PVC products. Definitely from 6' to the ceiling, if not from 2' to the ceiling or whole walls. My most recent favorite is ProSlat, due to ease of one-man installation, the hidden mounting screws (it looks really nice installed), price (I got 4'x8' kits for $134 each with free shipping from Home Depot), and the fact that they're impervious to moisture. The downsides: their trim is specific to their product, or at least the top trim is (Gladiator trim will work for bottom and sides), and the slat spacing is atypical (so accessories for 3" spaced slatwall that engage two slots will not work on it). Also wants 2" or longer panhead wood screws that you won't easily find at the big box stores (I order mine from McMaster-Carr when I need more than what's included with the ProSlat or if the screws fall out of the ProSlat box during shipping). At any rate, slatwall leaves you a lot of flexibility for on-wall storage. Put your cabinets and the like on the other side of the garage where you'll have room to open the doors and have a better chance of keeping slag, dust, etc. off of them.
 

John in OH

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 2, 2007
Messages
2,444
Location
SE Ohio & Eastern Virginia
Sorry, but I don't agree with using the 20x40 as your primary shop. IMHO, 20' is very narrow if you intend to put workbenches or place equipment on either side of the space. Rule of thumb ... allow 8' of the width for your vehicle; that leaves only 6' on each side for benches and equipment; then assume your bench/equipment is 3' wide on each side so now you have only 3' between the bench/equipment and the vehicle.

Alternatively, you could place all benches and equipment at one end of the shop and keep the sidewalls clear. Benches and equipment all bunched at one end will effectively take up 10' of space leaving 30'. My F150 is 20' long and you can't park anything beside an F150 in a 20' wide garage and get any decent door swing clearance. So, if you have a pickup, that leaves only 10' remaining. With 10' reserved for benches and equipment you won't be able to comfortably park two vehicles end-to-end in a 30' space.

Suggest you make a scale drawing of the two garages with scale cutouts of all your major equipment, toolboxes, storage shelves, benches, lift, vehicles, etc. and space them around the drawings to get an idea of how everything will fit. Make sure you leave plenty of clearance and working space around everything, then you'll have a much better picture of what you will and won't be able to accomplish with each of the buildings.

Sounds as if it is a good dilemma to have!!!
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

readhead

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 8, 2012
Messages
6,186
Location
Durango, Co.
20' is to narrow to do anything. You will start stacking stuff in that 40' and constantly be moving things. I would look into insulating the other building and working there and use the 20'x40' for the DD's and the back for storage.
 

dwm

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 28, 2010
Messages
861
Location
Southeast Michigan
Umm, did you guys not read the original post? He has a 2-car attached garage for the daily drivers; 3 garages total. Neither the 20x40 or the 36x47 is needed for the daily drivers.
 

jesse72

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 26, 2011
Messages
352
Location
California
I agree with "John in OH" about drawing a few to-scale layouts and seeing how it all comes together. I use graph paper so I can be accurate with the to-scale measurements but I know a lot of guys on here use Google Sketchup. That way you can see what fits where and have a few samples to ponder over.

Also if you do some sketches post them up here and the readers can give more accurate advice because they can see what your intents are.

Congrats on having such a great piece of property and 3 garages!
 
OP
I

INTMD8

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2013
Messages
314
Location
Lake Villa Il.
Wow, thanks guys for all the insight!

dwm- all good info, that ProSlat looks really nice. I am actually good at keeping everything reasonably organized and I'm not a junk collector either. If I think I won't need something it's gone immediately.

John in OH- Good idea to do the scale drawings. (I'll check out that Google sketchup jesse72, thanks).


I do think the 20x40 if properly set up would be adequate space but I can't help thinking about how wide open it would be in the bigger building. Looks like it would be fairly expensive to insulate however and I'm sure more expensive to heat and cool double the space even once that is done.

We have not moved in yet (closing in 6 weeks). I think I just need to get a car parked in the 20x40 to get a feel of how much space I will have around it and if it seems comfortable.

Either way it will be nice to finally have some front/rear space! Here is the current setup. With the garage door closed the 59 has 1/4 inch clearance in the rear and 6 inches in the front. Makes it a little tough to work on.

jo1p.jpg
 

Kevin54

MEMBER EMERITUS
Joined
Jan 12, 2005
Messages
29,341
Location
Urbana, Ohio
I would take the larger building for the shop. You'll not regret it.

My garage is 28' x 36'. When i built it, I had the foundation run through the garage and divided the garage with a wall. One side is 14' wide, and the other side is 22' wide. Although 22' wide is adequate, it's adequate for one car and a wall bench only with room to walk around the vehicle. The 14' side that was walled off, I parked in that side only. Over the period of a few years, I acquired a Compact utility tractor, and another vehicle. My garage is now too small. So a couple of years ago, I ripped out the wall between both sides and opened my garage up to where it is completely open. Man....it was great to have a wide open space. I loved it.

BUT....over the last couple years, I acquired a mill, a lathe, and a surface grinder. My bench is now too small, I have my grinder on one side of the garage, and my mill and lathe sitting on the smaller side of the garage where I used to park only. And now I am back down to only being able to park one car in my garage, and my daily driver Dodge Ram sits out, and I had to leave my tractor sit out this winter.

If you are going to work in an area, get the largest area you can. You won't regret it.

You can alter the trusses to get a lift in, and if it currently doesn't have insulation, it will just be a little bit of an incentive to get it finished up.

But either way, you do have two nice sized spaces no matter which one you want to store items in and whichever one you choose to work in.
 
OP
I

INTMD8

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2013
Messages
314
Location
Lake Villa Il.
I was at the house today working on the current owners car and I'm thinking the rafter/ceiling height of the bigger pole building is just way too low.

Maybe if I centered the lift with the roof peak but then I would need to somehow get nearly 4ft of extra clearance out of the current trusses and I think that means there would be nothing left of them :(

We were working in the 20x40 today and while there is no lift in it now it didn't feel crowded at all. Plus I noticed there are dual floor drains in that one which is nice.

What I keep thinking about is with my current garage I have a ton of time into pulling everything out and re-arranging things, setting up benches every time I want to work on something. With the 20x40 as a dedicated shop and the other one for storage I'll just be able to walk out there and work on the car with nothing in my way.

Maybe one day I will replace that pole building with something with a higher ceiling but that's not in the cards right now.

Thanks again for the input on this, lots of good advice.
 

Bob Heine

ALLIANCE MEMBER
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Messages
10,707
Location
Boca Raton, Florida
What I keep thinking about is with my current garage I have a ton of time into pulling everything out and re-arranging things, setting up benches every time I want to work on something. With the 20x40 as a dedicated shop and the other one for storage I'll just be able to walk out there and work on the car with nothing in my way.
I think you have answered your own question. If I understand correctly you are focused on one project at the moment, a 1957 Cadillac Eldorado Brougham. Aside from starting with the most beautiful Cadillac ever built you are obviously investing a lot of time, money and thought in the project. If it were me I would love to have one place dedicated to this project. It would have to be a comfortable place to work (AC and Heat) and a lift would be a major focal point.

If you choose to dedicate the largest of the three garages (shops) to the Cadillac, there is probably going to be a lot of open space. Any time I have open space, "stuff" fills it up.

I feel fortunate to have a 3-car garage but l find myself spending a lot of time making room around the project car that lives in the center bay. I would love to be able to walk into a 20 x 40 space that houses the project car and all its associated "stuff."
fa76ea52-c388-41d3-abaf-225bc252f24d_zps65fff8f5.jpg
 
OP
I

INTMD8

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2013
Messages
314
Location
Lake Villa Il.
Hi Bob, thanks and appreciate the reply.

I know I've been back and forth on this a hundred times but the bigger one is going to be the shop. I realized that with the lift in the 20x40 centered front to back and off center a bit side to side, I've essentially turned the 4 car garage into a 1 car garage but with not quite enough room to do everything comfortably.

I couldn't have the body off the frame and work on the frame next to the car, or have various body panels being worked on at the same time. It would still require constant re-organizing I think.

What I'm going to do is center the 2 post lift under the peak of the 36x47, and have the front of the car about 7ft off the back wall. This still leaves enough room on either side of the car for equipment, or if I want to have an area to assemble the chassis or an area for painting.

Biggest obstacle as mentioned before is truss height. I need to modify or replace the last 3 trusses in the building. One of the best options I have is going to a lam-ply truss from Starwood. Gives me another 3ft of height at the center but the cost for the trusses delivered is $2100.

I'm speaking with an engineer now to see if they can come up with a solution to modify my current trusses into a scissor style (well, not exactly but a flat raised section in the center), and I've found a local construction company that has a portable truss plate press that can do the work.

This route is going to be more expensive which means more time until I can get back to working on the Cadillac but I think it will work out the best in the end.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom