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White Polyurea troubleshooting

chicagocat

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May 21, 2010
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Hello all,
I’ve been lurking here for a few months trying to learn more about epoxy and polyurea floors. The project is not a garage, it’s a vacation house in Florida. My idea is to have very modern, high gloss white floors. I am doing the entire house (1800 sf) as essentially a single floor. After talking to several vendors and getting quotes and reading a bunch here, I decided to go with a local Florida floors guy who works with polyaspartics from Crown (located outside Chicago). He had excellent references.

The house previously was just padding and carpet (and some tile), over a concrete slab. The kitchen tile was pretty tough to get out and the mastic was pretty nasty. So the contractor decided to sand, then patch using one of Crown’s patching compounds, then use Crown’s #315 self leveling epoxy to get a flat surface. That worked pretty well, but not perfectly.

After that, they applied Crown’s #333 white polyaspartic polyurea. That seems to be where the problems began. The first time they did it, there were sharp bumps of either dust or dried epoxy everywhere (maybe 10 per sf). I’ve attached a picture for reference. In addition, there were parts where the polyurea didn’t seem to cover the self leveling underlayer (which is slightly gray). This resulted in quarter-sized gray spots (not too many, maybe 20 over the whole floor).

They then came back and sanded and recoated the floor with the #333 again. This time there were far fewer bumps (I suspect a bad roller and dust on the first coat). However, there were still some gray spots and indentations from bucket marks (semicircular marks, I’ve attached a pic). They then came back to patch the indentations and repaint them with the polyurea. After watching then try to do this, I got nervous. They use some kind of epoxy patch (from Crown), that’s light gray. For whatever reason, the white top coat (#333)simply wouldn’t cover the patch. The gray just kept showing through. Also, the places with new paint were very clearly distinguishable and stood out.

It’s now been decided that we should patch and resand and recoat the entire floor. My concern is that we’re just doing the same thing over again, and that we’ll get gray spots where the self leveler shows through and some bumps as well. In addition, there is a fair amount of orange peel effect (not terrible, but it’s there).

I realize that a glossy white floor like this is a very difficult job, and that I can’t expect perfection. That said, I chose the most expensive of the bids, and I’m paying quite a high rate ( higher than most stone tiles, for example). The contactor has been great about trying to fix the problems, but I feel like we’re going in circles.

Anyway, any thoughts would really great.

Thanks
 

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thegarageguy

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We have done our share of white floors......boy do they ****! White is translucent and requires multiple coats. We just finished a self level over wood with white epoxy poly finish. We troweled the epoxy, gauged it with a 3/16" notched trowel. Used about 100 sqft per gallon. Did this twice! Then rolled on 4 coats of white polyurethane. On 1500 sqft, we used 75 bags of polymer modified self leveling concrete, 35 gallons of white epoxy and 12 gallons of poly. Since I've done these before I priced it accordingly but what a pain.

83fc2b31-1.jpg


Here the link to the project album, http://s257.photobucket.com/albums/hh209/garageandbeyond/DardourHoboken/

It seems from your pics that they picked up debris or they used cheap rollers that delaminated. Best way to fix is scrape or sand the flaws and apply a few coats of white pigmented poly. That's the solution.

BTW, you said you paid a high rate.....if you don't me me asking, how much? How many days did they take?
 
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chicagocat

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May 21, 2010
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Garageguy,
Thanks a lot for the reply. I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one who's found gloss white to be a PITA.

When the team comes back next week for another coat I think that the plan will be to sand the current floor, then clean meticulously (vacuum, dry mop, maybe a final wipe with acetone?). Then 2 or 3 coats of the white gloss polyurea using brand new high quality rollers. My situation is a little different from yours since we're using poluyurea instead of epoxy. The reason I went with polyurea instead of an epoxy topcoat is that I was worried about yellowing, since the place is exposed to the Florida sun all day.

Btw, do you have a recommendation for a brand and type of rollers that I should have them buy?

In terms of expense, I'm a little hesitant to post an exact price in a public forum, but let's put it this way... I coiled have had almost any hardwood floor put in for the same price ( and I don't mean Home Depot laminated hardwood, I mean the real thing).

Thanks again.
 

thegarageguy

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This particular floor was epoxy and polyurethane sealed. You cant do a high build with polyureas like you can with epoxy. It was a manufacture spec'd job so I had to go with their material.

Not all Polyureas are the same. If I had to use Polyaspartic, especially on a solid color floor, I would be using a low viscosity one, but only as top coats. The one you are using may be thicker or meant for a broadcast, that's why it orange peels. It dries too quick for it to settle and smooth out.

See if they have a lower viscosity polyaspartic and do multiple coats. Any good non delaminating roller should work. Make sure the still clean the lint off first before using. It's really tough not to get any **** settling on your floor while applicating.

It's good to know that the are standing behind their work though. Let us know how it turns out. Good luck!
 
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chicagocat

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Thanks again,

The specs listed for the polyaspartic we're using say viscosity 750-850 cps. That seems to be for all the polyaspartics they make. In the blurb for the product, they call that "low viscosity".

It seems like you're saying that to avoid orange peeling we want more thin coats, rather than one or two high build coats, correct?

Thanks
 

thegarageguy

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right....multiple very tight coats of low viscosity poly should do the trick. Sand blemishes with 220 sand paper, solvent wipe and recoat everything
 
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AlphaGarage

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TGG - do you think polyaspartics are suitable for most DIYers? We have them in the industry catalog, but don't offer them retail.

Also, when you do a polyasparitc system do you prime with epoxy?
 

thegarageguy

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Chicagocat is having a pro install it. As for DIY? I'm sure their are guys out there that think they can and I guess some could but for the price, it'll be a very expensive try out. I think you might open yourself up to alot of tech calls during or after their install.

I mainly like using my polyaspartics as top coats. We only do one day chip systems, which are self priming, on rare occasions. Since they go on so thin, we reserve to use them on decent slabs or when a quick return to service is required.

What I really want to get into is the UV cured systems, I heard they cure hard as nails. I need to see it for myself.
 
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chicagocat

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TGG and AG,

Thanks for the comments. As TGG said,
I'm having a pro install it. The manufacturer recommended polyaspartic because of the very high UV exposure. The manufacturer has been terrific with advice and help, BTW.

I think that the main issue (as TGG mentioned), is that high gloss white on an imperfect slab is about as tough to get right as it gets...it really poses a challenge, and imperfections just show up more.

That said, the installer has been good about trying to get this right. I just think that most installers don't have too much experience with a floor this challenging. The chips and darker colors really hide a lot in most garage floor installations.

I think that between the advice of TGG and a conversation with the manufacturer that I had yesterday ( they said pretty much the same thing as TGG), we're on the road to getting this right. It's just going to take purchasing a fair bit more product...


Thanks again.
 
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