Who has the Menards Hydro Smart panel or boiler

[mxrx81]

Hi,

I am thinking on getting this since it seems to be the most affordably system, even though its still a lot of money. Just curious who else has one and if they like it. I would be using the condensing propane boiler.

https://www.menards.com/main/plumbi...anel/hsbp6w-hs115ng-120ht/p-1444433735979.htm

Condensing boiler
https://www.menards.com/main/plumbi...boiler/hs120con-lp/p-1444433728524-c-8519.htm

 

[Burl]

I started out with a home-made piping system, stainless manifolds from Ebay, and a 30 gal. HWH, and this system couldn't keep up when it got really cold in my area (below 20 deg.) I installed the Hydro Smart single zone panel and 120 boiler and it works great. If you catch Menards when they have the 11% off deals, it makes it easier. I would post pics but don't know how.

 

[mxrx81]

How big of an area are you heating? How’s your gas bill when running it? I have 1200sq feet one zone and 4 loops.

 

[yeldogt]

That's not a condensing boiler .... and 115k BTU .. what's the building size ?

 

[mxrx81]

That's not a condensing boiler .... and 115k BTU .. what's the building size ?

Here is the condensing model.
https://www.menards.com/main/plumbi...boiler/hs120con-lp/p-1444433728524-c-8519.htm

I have 1200 sq feet.

 

[Burl]

How big of an area are you heating? How’s your gas bill when running it? I have 1200sq feet one zone and 4 loops.

Garage is 30X32X12, one zone and 4 loops. No huge change (maybe $10) a month since the HWH, but much more reliability. I put an hour meter on the pumps of the new system, the system seems to run less overall.

 

[yeldogt]

I started out with a home-made piping system, stainless manifolds from Ebay, and a 30 gal. HWH, and this system couldn't keep up when it got really cold in my area (below 20 deg.) I installed the Hydro Smart single zone panel and 120 boiler and it works great. If you catch Menards when they have the 11% off deals, it makes it easier. I would post pics but don't know how.

The BTU output of a 30g electric water heater is low .... you went from not enough to more than likely too much.

It ran all the time because the Wh was not producing enough heat .... now with too much ..it cycles

 

[yeldogt]

Here is the condensing model.
https://www.menards.com/main/plumbi...boiler/hs120con-lp/p-1444433728524-c-8519.htm

I have 1200 sq feet.

You should do a heat load on the building .. figure out what you need as far as BTU's


you will also need some type of bypass control .. to lower the temp for the loops.

They are not hard to make -- get a copy of pumping away.. make one up .... supply house has all the parts

 

[mxrx81]

You should do a heat load on the building .. figure out what you need as far as BTU's


you will also need some type of bypass control .. to lower the temp for the loops.

They are not hard to make -- get a copy of pumping away.. make one up .... supply house has all the parts

The load calc that I used says I need 60,000 btu at the max.

 

[finn]

The high efficiency micro boilers have a pretty good turn down ratio, so it’s difficult, but probably not impossible to oversize them.

They aren’t an on-off device.

 

[Steve R]

I have the HSPS120LT panel with the 115 boiler (LP). The Aube thermostat from Menards that has the floor sensor, 1 zone with 8 loops, I have the air temp turned off and just run off the floor sensor. You can read about my setup here https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=407041
I put an hour meter on the unit and tied it in where the pumps got power so it would run when the pumps ran. The panel is setup with primary & secondary circuits, which I don't know why I really need that with the 1 zone and with 8 loops. I understand the hyd separation is needed with multiple zones or larger flow rates or higher temps. I attached 4 digital thermometers to the pump panel. 1st is on the line coming out of the boiler by the air separator, 2nd is right after the close tees on the return side going into the boiler. This would cover the primary circuit. 3rd is 6 inches before the supply manifold going into the floor. 4th is 6 inches after the return manifold from the lines coming out of floor. This covers the secondary circuit. The primary pump is set on medium, secondary pump is set on high. Thermostat is set on 60'F. If I put the boiler control panel on 104'F output, I end up about 96'F (1st thermometer) coming out of boiler, not the 104'F. The 3rd thermometer reads about 84'F going into the floor, the 4th thermometer will 61-63'F coming out of the floor. 2nd Thermometer going back into boiler will run the same to 2'F higher then the 4th thermometer reading the temp out of the floor. It seem like I'm loosing too much degrees in temp from boiler to supply manifold going into floor.

 

[yeldogt]

I have the HSPS120LT panel with the 115 boiler (LP). The Aube thermostat from Menards that has the floor sensor, 1 zone with 8 loops, I have the air temp turned off and just run off the floor sensor. You can read about my setup here https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=407041
I put an hour meter on the unit and tied it in where the pumps got power so it would run when the pumps ran. The panel is setup with primary & secondary circuits, which I don't know why I really need that with the 1 zone and with 8 loops. I understand the hyd separation is needed with multiple zones or larger flow rates or higher temps. I attached 4 digital thermometers to the pump panel. 1st is on the line coming out of the boiler by the air separator, 2nd is right after the close tees on the return side going into the boiler. This would cover the primary circuit. 3rd is 6 inches before the supply manifold going into the floor. 4th is 6 inches after the return manifold from the lines coming out of floor. This covers the secondary circuit. The primary pump is set on medium, secondary pump is set on high. Thermostat is set on 60'F. If I put the boiler control panel on 104'F output, I end up about 96'F (1st thermometer) coming out of boiler, not the 104'F. The 3rd thermometer reads about 84'F going into the floor, the 4th thermometer will 61-63'F coming out of the floor. 2nd Thermometer going back into boiler will run the same to 2'F higher then the 4th thermometer reading the temp out of the floor. It seem like I'm loosing too much degrees in temp from boiler to supply manifold going into floor.

The primary loop is to keep the flow correct to the boiler -- the boiler wants a particular flow. Water will flow around the primary -- boiler will fire to maintain temp in the prime loop. The secondary is pulling this heat out of the primary .. as heat is pulled from the primary the primary loop temp drops -- boiler fires to maintain temp. The boiler is always seeing the same flow .. it must always have the same flow. The secondary can be as large as needed.

As I mentioned in your post .... you have the panel hooked up backwards

 

[yeldogt]

The high efficiency micro boilers have a pretty good turn down ratio, so it’s difficult, but probably not impossible to oversize them.

They aren’t an on-off device.

They will turn down .... but they are not as efficient throughout the range. The goal should always be to have a properly sized boiler .

There is no point in over sizing.

People who say .. "Mine works great ....it only has to run for an hour" have an oversized boiler and are not getting the efficiencies.

Radiant is forgiving ... I have seen some really messed up systems -- that work well enough to get the job done.

The goal with radiant is constant heat to match the load and a given/ needed room temp. modern low watt pumps get the job done ..

 

[Steve R]

As I mentioned in your post .... you have the panel hooked up backwards[/QUOTE]

I have the boiler (basically on demand water heater) connected to the panel as the instructions say. If this is wrong then your saying Hydrosmart built it wrong. The 115 is variable low temp out, which it changes the heat to match the flow. It has a flow meter in it.

Our new shop addition (commercial, where I work) also has the boiler hooked to the Tees in the line that runs out to the 5 other zones. Which would be the same way my panel is connected. And this system was engineer designed.

If a boiler needs the same amount of flow, since I have one zone with 8 loops that don't change flow, wouldn't I be better off just to have one complete loop from boiler to supply manifold and from the return manifold back to boiler, and not loose any of the BTUs that I'm loosing in the primary to secondary loop? Since it is one zone, one temp, remove the hyd separation?

 

[Burl]

I looked at the pic of your system in the other post, its hooked up the same as mine as per flow directions. I also lose heat from the boiler to the floor, seems not as much as you do. The boiler is supposed to put out 120 deg, and 2 ft. downstream it is 114 deg. (as per the gauge on the panel) so whether the boiler is putting out 120 is questionable. Does the system work well? Are you satisfied with the heat it produces? As I have told others on this board, don't overthink things. You're in one of the coldest places in the country.

 

[Steve R]

Nov. 19th to Dec. 20th 2019 (31 days) it ran a total of 120.1 hours, took 145.6 gal of LP to refill tank. The weather for the most part was warm. Mid to upper 30's during the day and mid 20's to in the teens at night. With the thermostat set on 60 which just measure floor temp it stayed mostly 60' some early mornings it show 59' to 60' on a thermometer I have 8ft high. Now it has turned cold with the lows getting near 0 and highs in teens, low 20's. The last few days -15' to -10' with 30+ winds with gust in mid 40s. The inside temp this during this cold spell at 5:30am was 56', I was pleased with that. During the day when the sun was out it got up to 59. Even the high today was 1 above -5 now.
Since Dec 20th to today it has run 152.3 hours. I expect to get filled up in the next couple days.
So yes the system seems to be working but I would like to know what is the most efficient way to have it run. When I talked to Hydrosmart they recommended secondary pump set on high and adjust the flow to each circuit to .5 gpm. Set the Primary pump which controls the water through the boiler on medium. Set the boiler temp to where the temp going in the supply manifold was 20'-24' more then the water temp coming out of the return manifold when the pumps shut off. To do this takes about 104 on boiler control panel. It just seems somewhat wasteful to heat the water up and cool it off before it goes into the floor.

 

[yeldogt]

As I said -- it's a weird setup for for primary secondary. I would never buy one.

Typically with low mass boilers and the few water heaters that can be set up for heat -- the pump is pumping to the unit to maintain flow. All the unit sees is this flow.

This hydro smart looks to have the pump == pumping towards the air eliminator and the pressure tank. Why?

The fill and air separator should be off the higher heat area .. I typically do it just after the LLH -- but the close T's will do the same.

With some pipe and fitting -- it's easy to build.

 

[Burl]

As I said, my system is almost identical as Steve's, and I am very pleased with it. I know I'm not in such as cold climate as the Dakotas or MN, and yeah maybe I could build it better or cheaper (as with most everything), but I went to Menard's and bought the whole thing, mounted and piped it and am totally satisfied with the results. If you're not comfortable or able to build a system, this system works for me. So whats it going to be, 81?