Who here won this box for $6k

[35mastr]

it's still usefull.......you just have to sift through the bad info, assumptions and inaccurate comparisons

I agree,All info in the thread from present and past tool dealers is correct.

All the other statue info is all kinda shady.

Bull needs to go thru this one and clean it up. Just lots of misleading info that has nothing to do with the way a Tool Truck operates when selling or repossession of a box.

 

[krusty the clown]

seem's odd the guy who wanted this thread locked is continuing it but here goes.........

You have to agree that the number of repo's concerning secondhand buyers and Initial Purchasers has got to be Night and day. Personally Krusty have "YOU" ever went to a secondhand owners house and repo'd at box? and if you have where does that compare to how many Initial Owners boxes that have been repo'd.

when i was a dealer there was no CL or ebay so i can't give you the numbers you want. i never had to repo from a second hand buyer because i never let it get that far, i repo'ed the original purchaser. if he skipped it went in house for matco to deal with.

I have to be honest with you, if i had proof that i bought a box off a individual and someone came to my house demanding there box back we would have problems.

i would expect problem's and be prepared to deal with them

I cant forsee the police allowing you to reposess the box regardless if you had a signed contract or not, especially if i had proof i bought the box also. I suspect it would have to be handled in court.

even if the police were called and the repo was prevented it would go to court and you would need to be prepared to reliquish the box without recouping your money, you would then have to sue the guy you bought it from, and if he didn't pay matco, he ain't gonna pay you...........a judgement is useless.

 

[walrus]

it would go to court and you would need to be prepared to reliquish the box without recouping your money, you would then have to sue the guy you bought it from, and if he didn't pay matco, he ain't gonna pay you...........a judgement is useless.

+1. This is without a doubt how it would work

 

[Nealcrenshaw]

Why is every time there "seems" to be a heated debate someone wants to lock the thread? If you don't want to read it,why are you selecting it.

Or someone posts "Not this again didn't we already discuss this" once again why are you selecting the thread,you do have a choice you know.

If i particularly don't care for a certain subject,guess what i don't open it,its not that hard.

MAN UP!

 

[Diesel_Crawler]

Why is every time there "seems" to be a heated debate someone wants to lock the thread? If you don't want to read it,why are you selecting it.

Or someone posts "Not this again didn't we already discuss this" once again why are you selecting the thread,you do have a choice you know.

If i particularly don't care for a certain subject,guess what i don't open it,its not that hard.

We have lost members over threads like this, That's enough reason.

 

[Lookin4'67Galaxieconv]

MrMark is not a troll, He just recently joined after searching for some Hydraulic Jack Help and has been in contact with me personally. Lets not make accusations about our members, whether there old nor new.

When someone makes wildly inaccurate posts, such as not knowing the first thing about how a loan works, I'm going to call them on it.

He's a big boy, he doesn't need anyone to defend him.

 

[Hiball]

seem's odd the guy who wanted this thread locked is continuing it but here goes..........

I dont have a problem asking people for there opinions and would expect in a open forum we could all try and understand each others thinking without imposing our will or being a ******* and bashing new members.

when i was a dealer there was no CL or ebay so i can't give you the numbers you want. i never had to repo from a second hand buyer because i never let it get that far, i repo'ed the original purchaser. if he skipped it went in house for matco to deal with. i would expect problem's and be prepared to deal with them even if the police were called and the repo was prevented it would go to court and you would need to be prepared to reliquish the box without recouping your money, you would then have to sue the guy you bought it from, and if he didn't pay matco, he ain't gonna pay you...........a judgement is useless.

So in theory per your own admission "YOU" would have no right, Nor have ever tried to attempt to confiscate a box sold secondhand. The police would NEVER allow a tool dealer to enter said premises and confiscate a box based on "He said, She said" It would go to court and then it would be up to the judge to determine based on the facts of the case which is suspect would include, How much was owed to Matco, How much the box was worth, How much the 2nd buyer gave for the box etc.. etc...etc. I expect this wouldnt be open and shut case as alot of you guys are insinuating. Nuff said...

 

[Lookin4'67Galaxieconv]

Why is every time there "seems" to be a heated debate someone wants to lock the thread? If you don't want to read it,why are you selecting it.

Or someone posts "Not this again didn't we already discuss this" once again why are you selecting the thread,you do have a choice you know.

If i particularly don't care for a certain subject,guess what i don't open it,its not that hard.

MAN UP!

Yes, good post Neal. I don't think a thread needs to be locked unless it starts breaking the board rules...and while this one has run its course it hasn't broken any rules that I can see.

 

[Nealcrenshaw]

Threads like what?? Where there's a disagreement?

Last time i checked i saw no cursing,name calling,insults or anyone being disrespectful.
its just a discussion,with different viewpoints. We're all grown men.

 

[Lookin4'67Galaxieconv]

I dont have a problem asking people for there opinions and would expect in a open forum we could all try and understand each others thinking without imposing our will or being a ******* and bashing new members.

Gee, way to keep it civil.

 

[Nealcrenshaw]

Yes, good post Neal. I don't think a thread needs to be locked unless it starts breaking the board rules...and while this one has run its course it hasn't broken any rules that I can see.

Hey '67 we agree!

 

[M900]

Gee, way to keep it civil.

Pot meet kettle.

 

[Hiball]

When someone makes wildly inaccurate posts, such as not knowing the first thing about how a loan works, I'm going to call them on it.

He's a big boy, he doesn't need anyone to defend him.

If you re-read his post you will see that he claims the same thing Krusty is saying, Without a court ruling on the case, Matco doesnt have any authority to confiscate the box. Why does his post condone him "Not knowing his *** from a whole in the ground?" Or make him a "Troll"? And as far as how loans work there are numerous difference all based on States, They are not all the same regardless if there secured or Non secured.

 

[Lookin4'67Galaxieconv]

Pot meet kettle.

I haven't called anyone any names, just corrected misinformation.

Apparently some of you can't handle that.

 

[M900]

There is more to civility besides not calling names.
How about unfounded personal insults?

 

[krusty the clown]

So in theory per your own admission "YOU" would have no right,

i never said that......don't put words in my mouth

Nor have ever tried to attempt to confiscate a box sold secondhand.

i did say that

The police would NEVER allow a tool dealer to enter said premises and confiscate a box based on "He said, She said"

a legal contract is cretainly NOY he said she said. it's pretty cut and dry

It would go to court and then it would be up to the judge to determine based on the facts of the case which is suspect would include, How much was owed to Matco, How much the box was worth, How much the 2nd buyer gave for the box etc.. etc...etc. I expect this wouldnt be open and shut case as alot of you guys are insinuating. Nuff said...

first off, if it went "in house" for collection i would suspect MATCO FINANCIAL had it's ducks in a row and would have a court order in hand when they arrived to repo............but thats making the assumption that the loan had already been defaulted on......


it certainly seems to be an open and shut case. the box is collateral on a secured loan and is secured by a UCC that binds it. the second owner has no claim to it. his only recouse will be to sue the original purchaser who has signed the contact stating the he cannot sell the box until the loan is paid in full.

cut and dry.........

 

[krusty the clown]

If you re-read his post you will see that he claims the same thing Krusty is saying,

yes and no........

 

[Hiball]

I haven't called anyone any names, just corrected misinformation.

Apparently some of you can't handle that.

What makes you a authority on Legal matters? Its obvious since your correcting misinformation that you know exactly how the law works. What if the Toolbox that the Initial owner sold had a $400 dollar balance against it and it was sold to the second owner for 50% of New value at $5000. Do you really think a judge is gonna side with the financial company if the Present owner has documentation that he gave $5000 for a box?

 

[Nealcrenshaw]

The Rules: And i quote "By agreeing to these rules, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, ********-oriented, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws.

 

[walrus]

. Do you really think a judge is gonna side with the financial company if the Present owner has documentation that he gave $5000 for a box?

I think the judge makes the financial company whole. In other words they get the 400 bucks from someone, whether its the original owner or the new owner

 

[Hiball]

i wish that was the case here.......

on one repo i did the cops were called by the shop owner, who was refusing to let me repo a box that a former employee left. the police would not allow me to remove the box even though i had a signed contract. they said it simply wasn't thier job to determine who gets to keep the box and if i didn't leave peacefully i would be arrested for tresspassing.

i never said that......don't put words in my mouth i did say that a legal contract is cretainly NOY he said she said. it's pretty cut and dry

Ok.. From a previous post You did confirm your where tresspassing and would be arrested if you didnt leave even though you had a signed contract.

 

[krusty the clown]

What makes you a authority on Legal matters? Its obvious since your correcting misinformation that you know exactly how the law works. What if the Toolbox that the Initial owner sold had a $400 dollar balance against it and it was sold to the second owner for 50% of New value at $5000. Do you really think a judge is gonna side with the financial company if the Present owner has documentation that he gave $5000 for a box?

what make you an authority on legal matter as well?

if the box only had a $400 balance this situation wouldn't be happening.


what if the $10k box had $6k owed on it and the second purchaser bought it for $2500 ( this would be a more likely scenario)?

 

[Hiball]

I think the judge makes the financial company whole. In other words they get the 400 bucks from someone, whether its the original owner or the new owner

I believe so too, Someone should have to pay but i doubt a judge is gonna allow the secondary owners toolbox to be repossed account the 1 dipshit failed to hold up his end of the bargain. Everything is not "Cut and DRY" as some mind try and make it.

 

[Lookin4'67Galaxieconv]

What makes you a authority on Legal matters? Its obvious since your correcting misinformation that you know exactly how the law works. What if the Toolbox that the Initial owner sold had a $400 dollar balance against it and it was sold to the second owner for 50% of New value at $5000. Do you really think a judge is gonna side with the financial company if the Present owner has documentation that he gave $5000 for a box?

Boy, you like putting words in people's mouths. All I've maintained throughout is that someone who's financed a box has no right to sell it unless it's been paid off, OR they're using the proceeds to pay off the loan, and that someone buying it secondhand should do due diligence like GeorgiaHybrid did in making an effort to see if the box is paid for. I've also said you're taking a chance buying a box secondhand if you don't do that, although it's likely a small one, but a chance nonetheless. As far as repossession, I agreed with several posters that it would depend on the laws of the country, state, and even county the transaction took place in.

You don't own a box that you're financing b/c the finance company has the right to take that box back if the buyer defaults on the payments. That's pretty straightforward, but if you want to defend your buddy's repudiation of this, knock yourself out.

I'm not a lawyer, just someone who knows the difference between right and wrong.

I think the judge makes the financial company whole. In other words they get the 400 bucks from someone, whether its the original owner or the new owner

I would think that as well. The financial company just wants their money, they don't want to have to go through the time and expense of tracking down a toolbox.

 

[krusty the clown]

Ok.. From a previous post You did confirm your where tresspassing and would be arrested if you didnt leave even though you had a signed contract.

as i stated earlier, that was a truck account NOT a company financed box. BIG difference since there is no UCC filed on truck account purchases. the fact that i was accused of tresspassing was a ************ deal done by the shop owner to dead beat.

truck financing a big ticket item is a completely different thing and thats not our debate here.........i probably shouldn't have posted that since it confused people.....

 

[Hiball]

what make you an authority on legal matter as well?

if the box only had a $400 balance this situation wouldn't be happening.


what if the $10k box had $6k owed on it and the second purchaser bought it for $2500 ( this would be a more likely scenario)?

Im not a legal proffesional by far, I have had some legal issues during my rental profession but i do know from personal experience that the legal system doesnt always see it your way, Regardless if its right or not. And without someone showing me a case where this happened im gonna take my chances with a lawyer. I dont condone buying property that isnt clear but ill be damned if i would allow someone to reposess something i paid for. Has anyone here had a secondhand purchased toolbox repo'd? Im sure a problem this big, there would have to be a couple hundered people here that have been thru this sitsuation.

 

[walrus]

I believe so too, Someone should have to pay but i doubt a judge is gonna allow the secondary owners toolbox to be repossed account the 1 dipshit failed to hold up his end of the bargain. Everything is not "Cut and DRY" as some mind try and make it.

Nothing is cut and dry except death and taxes. I believe the Judge will uphold the law, so if the Matco has legal right to the box, too bad for the 2nd buyer. I have no idea what the contract states and to be honest I'm not sure I could understand all the legal ramifications. I bought a Snap On box on credit but I payed it off so I have no experience otherwise. I never would realized what liability one could assume by buying a used box, I'm glad this thread came about. Its a good thing to know before buying a used box

 

[krusty the clown]

Im not a legal proffesional by far, I have had some legal issues during my rental profession but i do know from personal experience that the legal system doesnt always see it your way, Regardless if its right or not. And without someone showing me a case where this happened im gonna take my chances with a lawyer. I dont condone buying property that isnt clear but ill be damned if i would allow someone to reposess something i paid for. Has anyone here had a secondhand purchased toolbox repo'd? Im sure a problem this big, there would have to be a couple hundered people here that have been thru this sitsuation.

a rental, even with a lease is still NOT a secured loan..........two completely different animals, and they can't be compared.


no one ever stated that this is BIG problem, it was intended as a heads up that it can be. it's a hypothetical situation were discussing since no one in this thread has been in this situation. but it doesn't matter facts are facts........
as 35master has stated, the tool dealers and former tool dealers are the correct ones here.

 

[Lookin4'67Galaxieconv]

I dont condone buying property that isnt clear but ill be damned if i would allow someone to reposess something i paid for. Has anyone here had a secondhand purchased toolbox repo'd? Im sure a problem this big, there would have to be a couple hundered people here that have been thru this sitsuation.

I'm sure I'd feel the same way, but if a person buys a toolbox that has a fair market value of $6000 on the open market (Craigslist, eBay, etc) for $2000, that should be a red flag that something's up and some checking is in order.

 

[Hiball]

a rental, even with a lease is still NOT a secured loan..........two completely different animals, and they can't be compared.


no one ever stated that this is BIG problem, it was intended as a heads up that it can be. it's a hypothetical situation were discussing since no one in this thread has been in this situation. but it doesn't matter facts are facts........
as 35master has stated, the tool dealers and former tool dealers are the correct ones here.

Jesus.. Im not comparing Rental houses to truck boxes.... Im trying to make the comparison in reference to the Legal system not being cut and dry. If i have a tenant that doesnt pay there rent, Do i have the right to kick them out and reposess my house? NO... Ive been in court more times than i care to remember. Nothing in the legal system is cut and dry anymore. That was what i was getting at.

 

[Hiball]

I'm sure I'd feel the same way, but if a person buys a toolbox that has a fair market value of $6000 on the open market (Craigslist, eBay, etc) for $2000, that should be a red flag that something's up and some checking is in order.

Fair market value is in the eye of the beholder, You can search the many "Is this a good deal" threads here at Gj and you will get Many different opinions.

 

[Flash21]

krusty, '67 -

Do you two agree with the information posted in this thread by Happyshooter?

 

[krusty the clown]

krusty, '67 -

Do you two agree with the information posted in this thread by Happyshooter?

the way i take it he is saying that as long as the UCC is properly filed the finance company has the right to reposses the box from a third party, so yes i agree. of course it appears he is a lawyer and i might need to hire a lawyer to interpret his interpretation

 

[Lookin4'67Galaxieconv]

krusty, '67 -

Do you two agree with the information posted in this thread by Happyshooter?

the way i take it he is saying that as long as the UCC is properly filed the finance company has the right to reposses the box from a third party, so yes i agree. of course it appears he is a lawyer and i might need to hire a lawyer to interpret his interpretation

I'm a little confused why you're asking us? That's been our position all along...that if the secondhand buyer does his due diligence and doesn't find any claim on it, he should be good to go.

 

[scooby074]

the way i take it he is saying that as long as the UCC is properly filed the finance company has the right to reposses the box from a third party, so yes i agree. of course it appears he is a lawyer and i might need to hire a lawyer to interpret his interpretation

Krusty, your right on your take in this, as is Happyshooter and Lookin plus others.

Basically the UCC is the same *** we have up here as it was explained to me.

So long as the Mortgage is filed and their within jurisdiction, then yes the second purchaser is SOL and has to sue. I dont know why this is so hard to comprehend. After it was explained to me by someone in the know, it makes sense.

The only part that dont make sense to me is the fact you can sell it in a different jurisdiction and the second person has the right to keep the box even if the mortgage is there. To me thats pretty ****** for Matco. I have no idea if a CM filed under the UCC goes across state lines. If so then thats better than what we have here.

Now as to how a dealer would get the box back, i dont think a person can kick in the doors and get the box back. Hopefully the person would surrender it voluntarily. I dont think the police would get involved as it is a civil matter, so id imagine Matco would have to sue the second buyer.

All i know is it would be a mess. The only guy who "wins" is the deadbeat with 6k in his pocket.

 

[daveblank]

And without someone showing me a case where this happened im gonna take my chances with a lawyer.

Read my post here. The tech gave the name of whom he sold the box to in court. Tool company then went to the tool distributor with whatever paperwork they obviously needed to get the box or the money. Since I did not see it, I do not know exactly what it was, but, it got them their money.

2 ways...

In court the original buyer says "Whell I don't own it anymore" & then the judge requires him to tell whom he sold it to. When I was a tech, I saw this happen. They then went to the too distributor that he traded it to. That distributor had to pay for the box or it was being repoed from the guy that he already sold it to. He paid & then had to take the tech to court. He ended up with his box back & a judgment for the difference. Last I heard, the tech still hadn't paid.

 

[Hiball]

Read my post here. The tech gave the name of whom he sold the box to in court. Tool company then went to the tool distributor with whatever paperwork they obviously needed to get the box or the money. Since I did not see it, I do not know exactly what it was, but, it got them their money.

Dave i apreciate your post, And well i agree that the Lien company should be satisfied by the original owner regardless of how many times it was sold. I suspect this issue that has been so popular here is a rare occurence. Im suprised it doesnt happen more often, but i suspect the legal costs associated are higher than what they could recoup. IN all honesty when a smoking deal comes along there are very few who even think about something like a possible lien regardless if its here in the classifieds or another venue. The first thing that comes to mind is How much cash do i have and how fast can i get there. I would expect there would be more issues with tools than Toolboxes, They would much easier to move.

 

[MrMark]

Why does anyone here think Matco would still own a toolbox they sold on credit? Please explain how a seller can continue to own something he sells. The fact that one takes back a mortage and a security interest does not mean that they retain ownership. The transferee is the new owner and can only lose that ownership according to the law and the contract he signed under the default provisions. The seller Matco has no incidents of ownership. Matco cannot direct how this person uses his box, Matco can only specify certain acts in their security agreeement that are prohibited so as to protect their security.

If you buy something on credit do you think that you don't own it until it's paid off? How about a pile of wrenches and other goods that you buy from the Snap-on man on credit. Is that stuff yours or not really until you pay it off?

The only reason this came up was because of wild claims of theft for selling allegedly Matco's toolbox by the original seller. You can't steal what you already own.

The other wild claims were of repossession against some third party w/o a court order to that effect. The third party is allowed to raise defenses under the State's adoption of the UCC and the aggrieved seller is going to have to file a claim and delivery case first to foreclose on their security interest. Many defenses are available to the BFP for value. The notion that the cops are going to get involved in a commercial transaction is absurd.

 

[MrMark]

I'd like to see the financing and security agreement where the buyer transfers ownership of his box to Matco financial in exhange for the loan as stated by Krusty the Clown. Is this a rent to own contract? If so, as the "owner" of the box according to Krusty, how does Matco financial limit its liability as to acts or occurences surrounding the use and storage of the box?

 

[t100]

what about auctions?

if Mr. A buys a box on Matco credit, half way through the payment, files bankruptcy. court orders liquidation, court appointed auctioneer comes in, locks down everything, supposedly, you can't even take the toilet paper out of the premises.

so, is the auctioneer liable to check every single item is paid off?

let's say Mr. B won the box, is it a legal purchase? if Matco comes take the box, should B just call the cops or shoot the repo man at sight?