Who is a grease expert?????

[danmcph]

One month ago I thought grease, is grease, is grease. Uhhhh, wrong. Then I read that I should use Moly for shafts and Non-Moly for bearings. It seemed like Lucas X-tra heavy duty and Schaefer 221 were recommended highly so I bought a tub of Lucas and a Tube of 221. Then in my continued online googling I learned that the Lucas is Polyurea and shouldn't be mixed with other greases. Damn, I thought grease was simple.

So here is what I service: Kubota tractor, a **** load of 4WD that are used in extreme environments. (I am from Moab Utah and own a Mercedes Unimog, HMMWV, Steyr Puch Pinzgauer, Early Blazer etc) along with dirt bikes, trials bikes, 4-wheelers etc. I also have trailers and a lot of shop equipment that needs greasing. On top of that I have a number of firearms that require grease, i.e. full auto belt fed WWII stuff. In other words, I have a ton of zerks and other items to maintain.

So, at this point I am at a loss as to what to stock and when to use what and when. I know that once I start greasing with one formulation either lithium or polyurea I need to stick with that grease for that item. The Schaefer 221 says it is an all purpose grease and can be used on bearings as well as splined shafts (think PTO for my tractor) so I am thinking I will use that grease for everything and then use the Lucas for those items that are grease once and forget it like wheel bearings for dirt bikes etc.

Am I barking up the wrong tree and what am I missing?

 

[gdocktor3]

I'd sure like to see some pics of your toys. Oh, grease is grease to me too.

 

[danmcph]

I have worked for about two years getting my shop set up the way I want it. Uptight, check. OCD, check. Type A attention to detail *******, check. I am about 3 months away from finally having it all put together, I thought at that point I would do a full shop tour and post in here.

FYI gdoctor3 I have read a ton of your posts and you are a knowledgeable dude.

 

[Tom.C]

Well moly grease uses molybdenum particles which are tiny metal particles you can actually see inn the grease, a good molybdenum grease will almost have a metal flake effect to it, the great thing about molybdenum is it's a very malleable so it essentially squishes a layer of moly onto a working surface and acts as a metal barrier before the base material is ever touched, I use moly grease on everything where metal rubs metal, which is funny to me that you say bearings shouldn't have it, I believe you I have just never heard it, anyway if moly is no good for bearings use Mobil 1 synthetic multi, it's red, thick, sticky, and has a high temp working rating.

 

[danmcph]

I should have been more clear. It seems as though the rule of thumb is to NOT use Moly grease for bearings as it can cause bearing skidding even though it seems as though some formulations have Moly and are supposed to be okay for use on bearings.

 

[Fcvapor05]

You haven't arrived at a bad solution really.

You 100% DO NOT want to put moly grease in ball or roller bearings.

Moly grease is for sliding or contact surfaces- it works because there are tiny particles of molybdenum disulfide suspended in the grease. Over time, these particles chemically plate onto surfaces, leaving a layer of the moly compound, which reduces friction.

If you put moly grease in a bearing, those little particles act like little tiny grains of sand, and cause pitting as they impact the moving surfaces. When they plate on the balls/rollers or races, they change the bearing clearances which also accelerates wear.

Both of the greases you've picked are of good quality and should provide long life when they are used correctly.

In short, I'd use the Lucas product for anything that has rolling elements- that means ball or roller bearings, gears, or anything else that specifically calls for non-moly grease.

The moly grease can be used for everything else pretty safely. Any journal bearings, sliding spline couplings, etc can take moly grease without a problem.

With regard to grease compatibility- grease is just oil and thickener. Oil compatibility is based on additive packages, but in greases, 99.9% of the time you don't have to worry about this, because the oils are almost always very simple (i.e. they have a lot less, and a lot less complicated, additives than gear oil or engine oil for a car, for example).

What you're really worried about is the compatibility of the thickener- and there's a lot of thickeners.

Here's a good chart that covers all of the most common thickeners for commercially available greases, along with a few of the less common ones. In the chart below, I = incompatible, B = borderline, and C = compatible.

 

[DFB]

^^^

Like it!

Good explanation and charting

 

[rlitman]

I should have been more clear. It seems as though the rule of thumb is to NOT use Moly grease for bearings as it can cause bearing skidding even though it seems as though some formulations have Moly and are supposed to be okay for use on bearings.

The greases rated for bearings that contain moly only have the tiniest amounts of it (and ZDDP perhaps). Hardly enough to make a difference, and nowhere near enough to plate on a layer that would affect the bearing clearances.

Moly buys you a SMALL amount of protection in a "dry" joint, and also a small amount of protection in extreme pressure environments. But actually having grease is more helpful by far. Except in the EP regime, no amount of moly in the grease will work better than just a thin film of the cheapest of greases. i.e. there is no substitute for regular maintenance.

 

[danmcph]

So is Schaeffer 221 safe for bearings both ball and roller variety?

 

[Git]

Maybe ask this guy?

 

[CNGsaves]

^ ^ ^ That barrel is one-month supply for greasing his . . . HAIR !!!

 

[lakeroadster]

OP,
I've had good luck directing such questions here.. Exxon Mobil

 

[Fcvapor05]

So is Schaeffer 221 safe for bearings both ball and roller variety?

Personally, I would NOT use Schaeffer 221 to lubricate ball or roller bearings- it contains moly.

The Lucas product you've already bought should work well for roller and ball bearings.

Journal bearings or sleeve bearings, fire away with 221.

Just for clarity- should you put 221 into a small ball bearing or roller bearing, you're not going to destroy your equipment; you'll just reduce bearing life. If 221 finds its way somewhere it isn't the best choice for, it's not like you're going to destroy a tractor or anything.

We're talking minute details here.

 

[chris142]

My ford truck specifies moly grease for its wheel bearings. I pull them apart every few years and regrease them with the specified moly grease. U joints get it too. Never any problems with it in my stuff.

 

[fdc319]

OP, is that a 4 wheel or a 6 wheel Pinz? It always cracked me up seeing the Brits move howitzers with those seemingly overloaded vehicles, but they are very capable.

I'm not a grease expert. You're likely already good on grease just by actually greasing it. I use Valvoline Synpower synthetic on my current vehicle.

 

[bushmechanic]

Your vehicles and equipment have extensive technical manuals; many of which will be available reprinted or in PDF. They will state precisely what sort of lubrication to use, where to use it, and how often.

I wouldn't put too much stock in Internet wisdom and speculation. Use what the TM demands.

 

[T45]

Yep, post #6

The one thing I generally pay attention to is waterproof greases, which show up in popular fomulations used in offroad, marine, and cycling applications. If you find yourself using or wanting to use a low compatbility soap-base like AL complex, typically clean out the old grease (ie, in full--use a solvent) and then make the switch to the new grease. That's one example where grease is grease is maybe not a good rule of thumb.

 

[danmcph]

It's a 6 wheel hardtop 712k pinz that I spent over two years doing a full restoration on

 

[earlthegoat2]

I am a fleet manager and to simplify my life and the life of the mechanics under me, I only use a lithium complex marine type grease. Marine so it resists wash down as we wash our equipment with plain water a lot and occasionally pressure wash.

I know my greases too and I probably should use moly on the metal to metal contact surfaces of a lot of our equipment such as the arms of mini exes and pivot joints on wheel loaders. Sue me. It's a lot less hassle to just supply and use one grease and not worry about cross contamination. It has worked so far so I would take all your research and keep it in your back pocket but don't obsess over it too much.

I'm well aware that how you treat your own toys and machines is very different from how one might treat the equipment at your job but I do take my job seriously and I feel I have enough knowledge and experience to work the way I do.

 

[theoldwizard1]

ANY grease is better than NONE !!

Etrailer.com - Overview of Lubricating Grease


P.S. You are OVER THINKING THIS !

 

[Schurkey]

You 100% DO NOT want to put moly grease in ball or roller bearings.

Moly grease is for sliding or contact surfaces- it works because there are tiny particles of molybdenum disulfide suspended in the grease. Over time, these particles chemically plate onto surfaces, leaving a layer of the moly compound, which reduces friction.

If you put moly grease in a bearing, those little particles act like little tiny grains of sand, and cause pitting as they impact the moving surfaces. When they plate on the balls/rollers or races, they change the bearing clearances which also accelerates wear.

My ford truck specifies moly grease for its wheel bearings. I pull them apart every few years and regrease them with the specified moly grease. U joints get it too. Never any problems with it in my stuff.

Entirely acceptable for roller-bearings according to the label. It is specified as a NLGI #2 (typical thickness) and rated for "LB" as well as "GC". Chassis lube = L, and "B" is the higher-grade of chassis lube, with LA being the lower grade. Wheel-bearing grease = G, with C being the highest-rated lube, better than B and A. I have a tub of this on my shelf right now...

...but I actually use more of the "GM/Chrysler" "Red" grease.

This is also an NLGI #2, also with GC and LB rating. This stuff carries a heavier load than the Ford/Moly grease in the Timken test.

The product info sheet for these greases is here:
http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/multipurpose_grease.pdf

ANY grease is better than NONE !!

Yes, but let's not deliberately mix grease types so as to cause a lubrication failure. The compatibility chart in the link you provided is excellent.

While it's more complicated than this, there are two general kinds of grease--soap-based and clay-based. Remember, "grease" is just oil mixed with filler. The oil does all the lubricating, the filler just (mostly) traps the oil in place. Which is why your grease gun leaks when the weather turns hot.

If you mix soap grease with clay grease, the soap tries to clean the clay off of the parts. Nothing good comes from this.







Additional reading:
https://www.nlgi.org/certifications/product/

 

[WittHay]

I would use a lithium based non-moly grease for all u-joints and bearings. The reason being most older vehicles used that grease and you should uses a similar grease to the stuff that is already in the bearings.

Unimog used to be sold at Case equipment dealers and no equipment company that I know of sells a moly grease for use in rotating parts.

 

[Fcvapor05]

Entirely acceptable for roller-bearings according to the label. It is specified as a NLGI #2 (typical thickness) and rated for "LB" as well as "GC". Chassis lube = L, and "B" is the higher-grade of chassis lube, with LA being the lower grade. Wheel-bearing grease = G, with C being the highest-rated lube, better than B and A. I have a tub of this on my shelf right now...

No argument from me that some moly-containing greases are OK for bearings with rolling contact- but not all of them are. Just like anything else, not all moly greases have the same percentage of moly content or the same size of moly particles in the base.

If a specific equipment company's manual calls for a specific moly grease, by all means, fire away. I was speaking in terms of a general rule- if I'm looking at a roller bearing on a piece of equipment where I either don't have service information or that service information doesn't specify which types of grease to use, and I only have moly and non-moly grease to choose from, non-moly grease is the safer choice.

 

[TMcCay]

FCVapor,
Excellent info and I hope you don't mind, but I copying your chart and posting it in my shop!

 

[BillK]

Your vehicles and equipment have extensive technical manuals; many of which will be available reprinted or in PDF. They will state precisely what sort of lubrication to use, where to use it, and how often.

I wouldn't put too much stock in Internet wisdom and speculation. Use what the TM demands.

Exactly what I was going to say, you beat me to it

 

[WWheeler]

It was the highest-grossing movie of 1978 and the highest-earning musical of all time, but garnered only 1 Oscar nomination for the song "Hopelessly Devoted To You."
It was filmed at Venice High School in Venice, CA, which was located right next to a pork plant, so everything smelled like bacon the whole time.
The film was set in 1958, but in the first dance in the gymnasium ("Rock and Roll is Here to Stay") there is a brief shot of a scoreboard which reads "Presented by class of 1971".
Due to the fact that her zipper kept breaking, Olivia Newton-John had to have the spandex pants she wears in the last sequence sewn on in place every morning and cut out of them at the end of the day for a week straight.

Now everyone's a Grease expert.

Seriously though, after reading some of the earlier comments I was going to mention the recommended grease for my Ford bearings, chassis, steering linkages, etc is a moly grease, but I see that's already been pointed out.

 

[MikeF2316]

I'd sure like to see some pics of your toys. Oh, grease is grease to me too.

I'm not a grease expert, and I didn't click on this thread yesterday to get a few expert replies before I read it. But my first thought is the same as the "doctor's". Especially the Pinzgauer and Unimog!

 

[Sumboodie]

Moly grease is fine in wheel bearings.
I do lubes and greases for a living.

What Unimog?

I have 2 Case MB4/94s

 

[Banjorear]

I am a fleet manager and to simplify my life and the life of the mechanics under me, I only use a lithium complex marine type grease. Marine so it resists wash down as we wash our equipment with plain water a lot and occasionally pressure wash.

I know my greases too and I probably should use moly on the metal to metal contact surfaces of a lot of our equipment such as the arms of mini exes and pivot joints on wheel loaders. Sue me. It's a lot less hassle to just supply and use one grease and not worry about cross contamination. It has worked so far so I would take all your research and keep it in your back pocket but don't obsess over it too much.

I'm well aware that how you treat your own toys and machines is very different from how one might treat the equipment at your job but I do take my job seriously and I feel I have enough knowledge and experience to work the way I do.

I agree. I don't think the OP is going to see that extremes of use (I could be wrong) that using the specified grease is going to wreck his stuff. Having the stuff lubed regularly is more important in the grand scheme of things.

 

[5ubtle]

Moly grease is fine in wheel bearings.
I do lubes and greases for a living.

What Unimog?

I have 2 Case MB4/94s

Do you realize that this discussion was occurring 8 years ago? OP (danmcph) was last seen on this forum almost 2 years ago.

 

[Rinspeed]

I use Mystik JT-6 or Super Lube for just about everything. Super Lube for anything that come in contact with rubber or electrical connections. Mystik is the largest OEM grease supplier in the US. I used to use a lot of Red N Tacky until my friend suggested I try Mystik, it's as good or better than the Lucas and it's much cheaper.

 

[Rinspeed]

Do you realize that this discussion was occurring 8 years ago? OP (danmcph) was last seen on this forum almost 2 years ago.

Lol, I never look at the dates but then again I don't dig up threads from 10 years ago.

 

[Sumboodie]

Do you realize that this discussion was occurring 8 years ago? OP (danmcph) was last seen on this forum almost 2 years ago.

Nope. Not my fault the forum showed it to me, so I assumed it was from yesterday.

 

[rancherbill]

You need to take the Course and become a Tribologist.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribology
then join
https://www.stle.org/

...otherwise...

READ your owner manuals and use what the manufacturer recommends. YOU have some expensive stuff and you want to be using it not fixing problems caused by incorrect lubrication. I know you are talking about lubes, but the best example in the oil world is you would not put sewing machine oil in you Unimog Diesel engine.

On my Bobcat skid steer you don't lube with chassis lube there is high impact lubes.