Who makes the Matco micrometers?
- Thread starter sieggy
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RoninB4
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Likely made in China and branded under Matco. It's customary that if a shop employee needs a measuring instrument as part of the daily duties then they should go out and buy their own. I don't loan my instruments to other toolmakers more than once. Your employer isn't throwing a slap at you, it's just part of the way machine shops operate. If I had paid for a digital Mit I wouldn't want to make it available to anybody either.
They look like most of the Chinese imports, so who knows who's making them; it's kinda like asking who makes the HF impact sockets.
I have a ~30 year old set from Enco that look the same. The ones I have are excellent and read dead on; I tested them on certified gage blocks at work when I first bought them, and they're still good today. I treat them properly and store them in the box in a mostly climate- controlled area.
I have a ~30 year old set from Enco that look the same. The ones I have are excellent and read dead on; I tested them on certified gage blocks at work when I first bought them, and they're still good today. I treat them properly and store them in the box in a mostly climate- controlled area.
vssjim
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Go on EBAY and a look at used Starrett or Central or many rebranded US made tools and they are nice and usually can be bought really cheap as EBAY is full of nice old great condition measuring tools. When looking at them carbide faces are the better grade of tools you can look at spindle about an 1/8 inch from the end where they attach the carbide face it will look like a line around it and a different color.
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Yeah I get that for calipers and hand tools but now I’m buying mics and hss tooling for the lathe because they decided the carbide inserts don’t need to be refilled.
I work in California for minimum wage so… kinda hurts my bottom line…
CHI_Tool&Die
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Hey sieggy, I’m going to drop you a DM.
dnschmidt
Well-known member
If you're a machinist in California and you're working for minimum wage there is something wrong with this picture.
Thank you! Is there a methodology that you used to get this information so I don’t have to bother anyone next time?
Still paying my dues, only been at this for 3 years. Came from an Amazon warehouse before this and worked at a low end office job for awhile after I got my bachelor’s and was a tech before that so not too skilled yet.
Think I did research a while back on where most of these were coming from. Just a lot of digging.
Wamsutta
Well-known member
What do you mean you bought THESE? You didn't buy a whole set did you?
RoninB4
Well-known member
-OK the measuring instruments I can kinda see if you intend to pursue machining as a career but HSS tooling is considered perishable tooling and you can't be expected to supply these. Every job has the cost of perishable tooling figured in. Buying your own drills, HSS lathe blanks, center drills, taps, etc. are NOT supposed to be bought by you. That's just not right.
-I can sure see where it would hurt your bottom line. After 3 years you should have enough experience for the shop to pay you enough to afford measuring instruments every week or two. I hate to say this but it sounds like that company is taking advantage of you.
-What have you learned in those 3 years? What machinery are you capable of operating? Can you set up that machinery too?
RoninB4
Well-known member
-Yeah there's plenty of information on the internet but you go ahead and ask question here if you can't find an answer or something doesn't make sense. If you're truly making the same wage as flipping burgers then something needs to change for you, starting with a higher pay rate. The expenses for tools of the trade, the filth, and the danger of working in a machine shop deserves more than a burger flipper IMO.
What is it you want to learn or do? I retired after 40+ years of working in machine shops and engineering so I can offer a few pointers if this would help you.
I mostly program smaller parts directly off solidworks provided by the engineer in surfcam. They taught me to hand write gcode as well but I’m stronger with CAM than handwriting gcode. I rely on the simulation too much i think.
I setup haas vf-0, vf-0E and the vf-4 a lot because they’re the older CRT equipped controllers so I just have to use the edge finder and manually set tooling
I really dislike setting up the vf-6 and vf-7 here because the cat-50 tool holders are heavy as hell and you have to jog the z axis down to set the tools. The auto tool setter on that one is nice, but I don’t like using the renishaw probe because those things are expensive and I don’t want to crash it and be liable for buying one of the new little glass beads because I heard they’re like $4000 each… I’d rather take longer and only risk a $12 edge finder lol
I’m getting pretty comfortable on the manual lathe, getting better with finishes and holding tolerances but I’m weak with cutting threads.
I’m really weak on the Bridgeport, can’t hold tolerances can’t get good finishes.
Also with programming, I’m very weak on fixturing/work holding. I’ve scrapped parts because my fixturing/ work holding wasn’t up to snuff and the part moved in my fixture on more than one occasion.
Im not worth more than minimum wage yet because my scrap rate is still pretty high. On a part run of 10 I might mess up one or two of them
Chips on my taper, or chip between the part and the part jaw scraps the part.
I’m trying to get better. We’re slow a lot here months between jobs and stuff so a lot of sump cleaning and floor sweeping until we have something to program, setup
And cut..
toolenthusiast
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Umm California minimum wage is $16 but you’re getting the $32 minimum wage for techs who have to provide their own tools, I assume, based on the topic of this thread?
If you’re getting $16/hr then you honestly need to reevaluate your life choices because you have a bachelor’s degree and lots of experience. I’m not saying that to be a jerk, I’m saying that because I live in a medium cost of living state and I know that the crayon-eating man-children who sweep the floor in my shop make $20/hr.
I’ll make 18 because the city I work in like a wealthy area so they passed a local ordinance to raise the wage to 18
I talked about that with my boss, but said I was excluded because he has shop used tools available in the industry standard is supplying my own tools
To Add on to this, I’m probably on the Lower IQ end of things, I’m not a smart guy, slow learner so I’m probably on par or a little below the quality of employee that sweeps floors. I did work in an Amazon warehouse for a while and that’s not exactly employment given to high IQ individuals… the air conditioning in that huge warehouse is nice though, ***** that machine shops can’t afford climate control
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toolenthusiast
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I do not agree that you are not smart. Only 36% of men in the United States have a bachelor’s degree. About 0.3% of people on GJ can spell as well as you. And I saw that thread where you were doing bodywork on that cabinet - you had great ideas. Not to mention your relevant experience in the machine shop.
You’ve seen The Wizard of Oz, right? You’re definitely not the scarecrow, with no brain. You might be more like the lion? Maybe you just need to pluck up the courage to advocate for yourself and/or switch jobs
You are way underestimating yourself my friend! There are a slew of places in this country you could be making two or even three times the amount you're making there. And your cost of living would probably be a percentage of what it is in California.
Kscardsfan
Well-known member
Don't sell yourself short partner. You're way more intelligent than the average individual out there, I deal with their stupidity professionally in my work. You need to think higher of yourself and demand more for yourself. You're capable of far more than you're allowing yourself to think.
RoninB4
Well-known member
-Nothing wrong with simulation. it helps prevent a crash from happening. I'm from the days when G&M-coding was done long hand and it was a real PITA sometimes. G&M-coding requires a rather intimate feel for what's going on at the cutter and it's not something you just punch numbers into with expected results. There's a lot more than theory going on at the cutter that isn't always obvious. I don't feel you're sub IQ if you've already learned the skills listed above in 3 years starting with no prior experience in a machine shop. Your boss is knocking you to keep your wage down for various reasons. That's not fair to you.
-Using a mechanical edge finder is ok, it's just another tool to be familiar with. Relying only on the Renishaw limits you to using just ONE method of locating the edge. The more tools you're familiar with the better, more knowledgeable you are.
-Yep, CAT 50 can hold some heavy tooling. I wouldn't really like it either if the tool can damage me more than I can damage it. That's a lot of lifting setting up a new job or taking down an old one. The lowest paid guy is doing the heaviest lifting? That's done on purpose IMO.
-There is no f'ing way you should be held responsible for damaging anything if you're trying to be careful. Sooner or later a crash happens with all CNC machinery. It's not a matter of IF it will happen it's WHEN it will happen. That's the risk the boss/company takes in assigning a person to any task whether it's sweeping the floor or running expensive machinery. If you're not negligent then mistakes happen to everybody. Making you responsible for the cost of anything involved in an accidental crash is the same as you subsidizing the cost of the company doing business. That's decidedly not right and I believe a labor board would agree with me if the company deducts costs from your paycheck. Even the cost of drill bits, taps, and cutting tools should not be coming out of your pocket. I don't like risking expensive probes/tooling either when I don't have to. If the sides aren't dead square to the top then there's likely an error factor anyway and the added precision of a Renishaw probe is wasted. Why risk when there's no benefit?
-Cutting threads by single-point is not an easily accomplished task for someone that doesn't do it on a regular basis. I've done quite a bit of it and can tell you that there are a number of factors in getting it right. There are even some materials that are more difficult to cut than others. Striving for a Class 3 thread (A or B) when it's isn't called for is useless. Thread finish is dependent upon several factors. The difference between using a carbide insert and HSS makes a difference too. Don't beat yourself up on this one.
-There are plenty of factors that affect tolerance/finish in a Bridgeport. Speed/feed and depth of cut (DOC) have a much greater effect in a relatively light weight machine like a Bridgeport instead a solid machine like a bed mill Okuma/Haas. Vibration greatly affects tolerance AND finish. How far the quill is extended, length of milling cutter, and how prone to vibration everything is can make a huge difference. The Bridgeport was NOT designed to plow off metal, it isn't capable enough due to design and low mass. It's great at versatility but if the boss is telling you that you're taking too much time and you should increase the feed or cut then he's either leading you out on thin ice or he's trying to make better time on a job to make himself look good. Using a lathe or a milling machine have different rules of operation. Great that you've learned a lot in 3 years but unless you use each machine on a regular basis it's not easy to be proficient in only 3 years, especially if you're bounced around to a different machine every couple of days.
-That could very well be that the part moved because there was too much metal being removed in a cut or too high a feed rate. Any machining has what's called "cutting force" and that is proportionate to how much metal is being removed and how quickly this is happening. What works for a piece held solidly in a vise may not work well for a piece held on an angle plate with a C-clamp. Knowing how much and how fast is a matter of experience, ruining a part because it moved has happened to ALL machinists. Even squeezing a part as tight as possible in a vise isn't always a good thing either as the vise can deform a part from over-clamping forces. Proper fixturing and work holding is critical for machining and ALL machinists have had to learn this by scrapping parts. It's not a fun way to learn but there are no substitutes for learning by failure. Somebody should have been helping you to learn this until you were ready to solo, not throwing you into the deep end of the pool.
-Uh-huh, I still cut an extra piece of stock now and then so I can test out an iffy process. Lots of machinists do this unless it's really expensive stock or a casting. The boss is holding the scrap rate over your head to keep your wage rate down. After 30+ years of metal working I'd still scrap a piece now and then. Being perfect every hour of every day is a ridiculous expectation. Yes we strive to not make mistakes but learning from your mistakes is part and parcel of the trade. Sometimes the wrong expectation is the problem. I once worked at a company that expected +/- .0005 from a milled external slots on a 10 pound block of 4140. It would have been simple to finish grind them in on a surface grinder but the boss insisted it be done on a Bridgeport. They also had me bore a precision hole in a plate that required cranking the entire usable length of the table. This would have been ok except there was no DRO and the lead screw error multiplied with every inch of travel. They insisted the lead screw error factor didn't matter but it clearly did after getting the same amount of error on the second attempt. Sometimes the boss is just flatly wrong because he's capable of making mistakes too.
-Well that is something to watch for when changing parts, cleanliness is important and is something you learn to follow. It's happened to ALL machinists too and will again, if not careful, regardless of experience. Some methods have to become habits, clean jaws is one of them.
-Slow in between jobs? Boss browbeats you to avoid rising shop costs? Sounds fairly consistent that money is tight at the company and either the front office is telling the boss to hold costs down or the boss is just gaslighting you. You may not have a great deal of experience but I believe you have enough for another company to invest in you by hiring you and increasing your learning. This would be done by pairing you with a more experienced worker to oversee your set-up/programming until there's enough confidence to let you go solo. Your pay at $18 per hour may be ok for a Day 1 beginner but that's not what you are now.
You're being taken advantage of IMO by playing on your low regard for your own experience/abilities. I wouldn't mention this at all to your current job, find another company willing to take you on for your potential (which you DO have) before trying to negotiate at your current job. Your current boss may just fire you or try to make you pay for something that's not your responsibility to pay for. Don't give them a chance to screw you over, they already have for long enough.
-You are still cordially invited to ask questions to answers you can't find or don't understand. Machining is a deep rabbit hole and the knowledge/skill required is not easily obtained. A better forum for questions would be at a devoted site like Practical Machinist but they're sometimes a cranky bunch that doesn't tolerate newbies very well. There are several members here that probably wouldn't mind helping you because ALL of us that are experienced machinists were helped in the beginning and some of us still remember how it was for us. Chin up, you'll do fine to persist and persevere in the face of obstacles and discouragement.
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toolenthusiast
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RoninB4 is dropping knowledge AND wisdom in here. Each one is rare on its own, but it’s even rarer to find both in combination.
jimbothecricket
Well-known member
OP you should be making more money. I unfortunately can't speak to the OEM of the Matco micrometer, but I can speak to fair wages for techs. I worked in a water bottling plant in Stockton, CA and our line workers made $19/hr at a minimum with lots of overtime due to 12 hour shifts. Our junior mechanics started at $29/hr and over half of them were about as bright as a sack of rocks. We had senior mechanics who were making $45+/hr. I have a mechanical engineering degree and in an internship during the summer after my sophomore year I was paid $18/hr when I basically had no skills. I now work for a tech adjacent company and half our engineers are not very bright or competent. The reality is most people are not brilliant. That doesn't stop them from getting paid.
jimbothecricket
Well-known member
I forgot to mention that minimum wage when I was at the bottling plant was $14/hr. When I had that internship it was $12/hr.
I really appreciate this advice, thank you. I’ll shop around for different employment, this is a cool trade but it gets difficult at times. Cleanliness is something I can work on for sure.
I actually have an account on practical machinist, I actually use them when one of the machines alarms out and we find out if a part is bad or what needs to happen to get it to run again.
Yeah, I think I’ll make it a habit to use that Bridgeport more often and try to get some more hours in it. Thanks again
RoninB4
Well-known member
-Yes it does get difficult at times, it's also filthy, expensive, and dangerous but there is no substitute for hands-on shop experience. Since you have already indicated that you use Surf Cam with files out of SolidWorks I might suggest you gain more experience with both CAD programs. Taking several CAD classes at a local community college is what allowed me to step up from being a tool and die maker to the Engineering Dept. (pays much better) for the last 17 years of my working career. If you get proficient with just one parametric 3D program and maybe even test for certification (not required) I'd wager that you could just about double (or more) your current pay rate and have better job duties. This could all happen in one year or less. CAD proficiency will open many doors for you that are currently closed besides programming CNC machinery. Your Bachelors degree will even open doors for you (HR required in job description) even if you're light on CAD and/or designing skills.
-I was a regular member of PM too. There's a huge amount of knowledge/experience in the collective on that website. Many of them are either shop owners or active shop personnel. It's a good place to ask questions IF you've tried to find answers before posting them there. People that don't at least try to do their homework are regarded as lazy and wasting the time of others. Since I've retired I don't find a need to be there but it's a good website to search for info from past postings.
"Yeah, I think I’ll make it a habit to use that Bridgeport more often and try to get some more hours in it."
-Would recommend doing that, it's a very versatile machine that will give you the basis for understanding the larger, more expensive machines.
Thanks again
-You're quite welcome, hope this was of some help. Report back as you need to, good luck.
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Tynee
Well-known member
OP, to reinforce what others have told you, you are absolutely not a low-IQ individual. Your ability to communicate in written format and your self-awareness of your strengths and weaknesses is demonstrated proof of your intelligence.
Also, I agree with others, a job change is in order, and I wouldn't even entertain the offer of a raise from your current employer after you announce you're leaving. They had their chance to show their appreciation but chose to take advantage of you instead.
Just curious, what is your degree?
Also, I agree with others, a job change is in order, and I wouldn't even entertain the offer of a raise from your current employer after you announce you're leaving. They had their chance to show their appreciation but chose to take advantage of you instead.
Just curious, what is your degree?