Whole house flicker

[posaune]

Wow - thanks for all the replies on this. I wish I had an update, but nothing yet. As a few of you pointed out, it might not be the best idea in the world for me to go poking around the box. I *might* but I am trying to avoid it as long as possible.

As far as the problem goes, last night there was no flicker at all. The electrician(s) I called have not returned my call, so I don't expect them to until Monday. If anything starts acting up tonight, I'll start checking things myself (so if I never return to GJ...).

 

[Junkman]

No flickering might mean that they fixed whatever was wrong, and just didn't want to admit that there was a problem on there end. I would be inclined to hold off on the electrician for a week to see if the problem reoccurs.

 

[cortez]

If you do need an electrician and it is the power companies fault they will pay the electricians bill ( at least here in Chicago).

 

[posaune]

No flickering might mean that they fixed whatever was wrong, and just didn't want to admit that there was a problem on there end. I would be inclined to hold off on the electrician for a week to see if the problem reoccurs.

I was hoping that you were right, but nope.

It just did it again. This time I was... ahem... let's say browsing some tool catalogs in the "library" and I noticed the lights and also that the fan was changing pitch. What scared me is that the lights seems to *stay* dimmer (with the associated lower pitched fan noise) at the "end of the event." I hope it is just relative, 'cause calling an electrician on a Sunday night is not my idea of fun.

A quick stupid question though - what should the voltage be *at the outlets*? I'm getting 111-113 all over the house.

 

[Junkman]

I am wondering if you are on a grid that is constantly being changed supply source. In the summer, we have the same thing where I live. CL&P denies that there is such a thing, but we will have slight brown outs or actual loss of service for a few seconds at a time. I would press the power company to put a graph meter on your house to record use and voltage drops and spikes. I would tell them that the electrician said that there is no problem at the home, and that it is on the pole side of the supply. If you still have problems, then call the Department of Public Utility. They will light a fire under the power company........ especially if you say that you fear that there might be economic damage to your appliances, and or physical damage that could lead to a fire.

 

[Mr_fixit]

A quick stupid question though - what should the voltage be *at the outlets*? I'm getting 111-113 all over the house.

AT leat 10 volts more than that.

 

[rinny_tin_tin]

I was hoping that you were right, but nope.

It just did it again. This time I was... ahem... let's say browsing some tool catalogs in the "library" and I noticed the lights and also that the fan was changing pitch. What scared me is that the lights seems to *stay* dimmer (with the associated lower pitched fan noise) at the "end of the event." I hope it is just relative, 'cause calling an electrician on a Sunday night is not my idea of fun.

A quick stupid question though - what should the voltage be *at the outlets*? I'm getting 111-113 all over the house.

113 VAC is fine assuming that the system is under load. Power up a continuos power demand item - like maybe a heater - and thn measure the voltage. Most utilization equipment is designed to run on 117 VAC +/- 10%
without problems.

 

[Tscott]

AT leat 10 volts more than that.

This is not correct see the attached ANSI document. This is the standard most power companies have adopted. Page 5 I believe has a chart that gives the acceptable ranges.

Oh wait, the file is too large. I just posted the applicable table below. It is a zipped PDF. It should be pretty self explanatory. Voltage range A is preferred, but B should be the limit. Anything outside this is unacceptable. This also includes short term problems, so basically the voltage to your home should never swing outside these parameters unless there is a problem.

Also, if any of you nerds out their wants the full document, 15 pages I think, then PM with your email and I will send it to you.

Tom

View attachment ANSI Standards voltage table.zip

 

[redsky49]

I have always thought that 108V was the drop dead point as at that point attached devices start to fail (can't recall if it is conductive loads that are the most sensitive), but also voltage levels vary throughout the day based on system load, transmission distance, etc.

It isn't just voltage that can be a problem but also the quality of the service. Electrical "noise" can be a real issue for sensitive electronics. Some of the worst quality power I have encountered was at marinas. I always felt pretty lucky if the measured voltage was over 110V, and the polarity of the connection was not reversed.

The point of all of this is 111-113V isn't out of the range of normal. Getting back to basics, have you confirmed the grounding of the system. Do you have any aluminum conductors in the house? Older aluminum wiring can loosen over time at the connection points.

There probably are a lot of helpful thoughts expressed here on the forum, but at this point you will be best served by a smart electrician with proper testing equipment.

Keep us informed.

As always, offered only as opinion

 

[posaune]

Ok, I FINALLY got an electrician out here. He was quite friendly and seemed knowledgeable - and for my fellow nuts in the tool section of GJ, he even was using Snap-on tools.

After I explained the whole deal to him, he said the same things that you guys did (of course). So he tightened up all of the connections in and around the main box and in both meters. All of them looked pretty loose. He also replaced two bugs(?) on the drop outside, one of which was on the neutral.

Thanks everyone for all the help. Hopefully I will be able to report back with no more problems!

I figure I need some garage content for this thread, so since he was here anyway, I asked about adding a subpanel for the garage. Fwiw, he said it shouldn't be an issue with the main panel I have.

 

[Torque1st]

Let us know if it fixes the problem.

BTW, since I am comfortable working in my panel even with the shakes I go in and tighten said connections every year or so. I don't touch the splices outside tho. I let the power company take care of those. Due to a small hairline crack in the meter retaining ring I can pull the meter if necessary without disturbing the seal.

 

[maching]

I was hoping that you were right, but nope.

It just did it again. This time I was... ahem... let's say browsing some tool catalogs in the "library" and I noticed the lights and also that the fan was changing pitch. What scared me is that the lights seems to *stay* dimmer (with the associated lower pitched fan noise) at the "end of the event." I hope it is just relative, 'cause calling an electrician on a Sunday night is not my idea of fun.

A quick stupid question though - what should the voltage be *at the outlets*? I'm getting 111-113 all over the house.

if the electrician didn't fix the problem you most likely have a bad transformer. voltage should be between 115 and 125

below or above that means you have a bad transformer

 

[Aceman]

Let us know if it fixes the problem.

BTW, since I am comfortable working in my panel even with the shakes I go in and tighten said connections every year or so.

FYI, I copied and pasted this from a previous post:

Taken from Southwire's website:
http://www.southwire.com/Southwire/...HHNInstallationandApplicationGuide8-15-07.pdf

When terminating aluminum conductors, there are several practices one should be aware of to ensure a
quality connection that will remain trouble free.
1) Always use a connector that is listed for use with aluminum wire.
2) The following is recommended but not required. Always follow the connector manufacturer’s
instructions
a. The surface of the conductor should be wire-brushed to break any aluminum oxide
barrier leaving a clean surface for the connection.
b. The use of anti-oxidant compound, joint compound, is not required unless the
connector’s manufacturer requires it. However, the use of a listed joint compound is
always a good practice.
3) Always tighten set-screw type connectors to the manufacturer’s recommended torque.
4) Most importantly, do not re-torque the terminations as part of routine maintenance. As
with copper conductors, repeated tightening of any set-screw connections can result in the
eventual “biting” through the conductor causing the termination to fail.

 

[Torque1st]

Aluminum just *****... I watch for that deformation. I pulled one connection in my own panel and reworked it because the tightening had caused some plastic flow. That plastic flow with heating is one of the reasons aluminum house wiring was banned. I use all copper anywhere I go except for the damn power company drop.

 

[Kevin54]

Ditto on the transformer. That was my guess on page one. If your lights still do it, take notice of the time it does it, try to talk to any neighbors to see if theirs does it, look at the poles around and try to see how many people are on a transformer.
We were having problems in our neighborhood for better than a year. The wife and I both worked and everyday when we got home, we had to reset the stove, microwave, and clocks. This went on three or four times a week. We called the power company numerous times, but we could not really pinpoint a time of day when it occured. We started keeping track and it would happen late mornings. Well the neighborhood was starting to build new houses so the draw on the current transformers was not just quite adequate enough. After the power company started investigating other houses that it started happening to , they traced it to a farmer and his equipment. He pulled enough on his end that would kill electricity other places. Now every house out our way have their own transformers. Since they did that upgrade, we have not had a problem.
So you may have to be persistent with the power company, but have your ducks in a row when you talk to them. Give them times it happens and any other pertinent info that would also help them out. Intermitten problems are the hardest ones to track and and they may not seem interested unless they have a bunch of info to start out with.

 

[posaune]

Well, so far so good! I haven't seen a flicker since the electrician was here. I wish I knew *what* fixed the problem though. My guess is the reconnecting of the neutral outside. I always thought it looked suspect (but I didn't know what it was). Besides, I'll feel bad if just tightening the connections in the box fixed it.

I have to thank you guys again for all of the responses to this thread. I started it with no clue of what could be the problem but by the time the electrician got here, I knew everything he was going to say before he said it.

 

[Torque1st]

A bad neutral is the only thing I know that will cause the lights to get brighter.

 

[beelsr]

Not so fast....

Friend was digging to put in a new gate at the end of the driveway and he says that he _knew_ the wiring was "around here somewhere" but when he felt resistance with the front-end loader, he just kept lifting the bucket.

Real, USA-made vise-grips. Held for a week.....

Now that takes the Nasty Wiring Photo for the Month!

 

[redsky49]

Great pic. Gotta love those Vice Grips

 

[kbs2244]

I remember reading a story in a body shop mag about guys opening up the front end of a Olds after a wreck and finding a ViceGrips holding the left front fender on where it should have been spot welded.
The car was 3 years old and had over 50,000 on it.