Why are American's tool boxes so big?
- Thread starter Cato
- Start date
finn
Well-known member
Ego and a tax code that makes tools a deductible expense for professionals.
It's a government supported entitlement / welfare program for mechanics.
It's a government supported entitlement / welfare program for mechanics.
NFT5
Well-known member
Not just this post, but all the others that blame SAE and Metric and seem to think that the rest of the world gets by on just one standard. Wrong, fellas. We've been officially metric for many years but I still need a full set of SAE.
For some unknown reason until just recently you couldn't buy a metric fastener in any hardware store here - all SAE. Then, of course there are the American cars that you guys keep sending us. Not sure why (you send them), but they use SAE too, mostly. Old cars, of course. And then there are old English cars. Whitworth anyone? European cars? Many don't even use hex head bolts or Phillips head screws. So that means another set of Torx and E-code. then there's the really weird stuff like 5 sided heads.
The reality, as I see it is that we're being exposed to much more range and being expected to work on virtually anything. In years gone by a Mercedes wouldn't have even been seen at a local shop - only being sent to a specialist.
Add to all that the fact that tools are getting cheaper, in real terms. So we can afford more.
I used to get by with a quite small box but now have 2 x 26" stacks and am fast heading towards a third.
I don't know about bigger paychecks though...if pay kept up with the rate of inflation since the 70's, federal minimum wage should have been $22/hr right now.
purplezr2
Well-known member
How many of the specialty tools are provided by the dealers in Europe vs American, I know I have tons of specialty tools and I'm not even a mechanic.
flyingtpot
Well-known member
I've seen guys with monster tool boxes, and all they do is PDI Chevy Cruze's all day.
American tool boxes are more often just storage containers for tools, and are otherwise useless. Just my opinion of course.
Take the box below for example...what the hell do you do with this? Lol
You joined GJ in August of this year and you already made a clueless and idiotic comment amount another GJ posters tool storage system!
The sad part about you is that you pride yourself in being an A$$!
wornoutoldman
Well-known member
Fretters
Well-known member
I still prefer the tallywhacker size compensation theory. 
I have noticed this is pretty much true. More proud the tech is of himself, bigger the box. We had one that had a monster , I dunno 8 feet long maybe, $13000.00 Snap-On box. He was VERY proud. Myself, I work on coaches, I have just enough to hold the tools I need for the job, which is still a lot, but nothing is for show,nothing that doesn't serve a purpose at all in the box, except pictures of the family, and a couple other pictures, and very little of it is Snap-On. I have a great house , some cars I built and property instead. I never understood the tool thing that so many guys are caught up in. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
Dust Devil
Well-known member
Why?? Cause it's 'MERICA!! Thats why!!
Piece-it Pete
Well-known member
It wasn't always this way, but much more so in the last 20 years. It seems that new tools can not touch another tool. A metric wrench can't be in the same drawer as a SAE wrench and it is a major **** if you don't have a special drawer for your wallet, sunglasses and phone.
My life just wouldn't be complete if I didn't have a kegerator built into my toolbox. [/deadpan]
Pete
nuklbstr83
Well-known member
sae/metric/special tools/ 1/4 3/8 1/2 3/4 test & diag equipment.
boom. where else you gonna fit it all?
boom. where else you gonna fit it all?
Dust Devil
Well-known member
Why is your toolbox so small? Cause you are too poor...thats why!! 'MERICA!
let's compare Ford & Merc, arguably the same influence on Americn market vs Euro. So to get to that one thing in the Ford, you get a tool specified in the service manual that's contorted all kinds of ways, while the Merc manual is going to tell you in order to get to that hard to reach bolt, you need to take off the whole front clip. Literally.
Not saying that no Euro standard will call for a S wrench, crow's foot, etc. Saying that the methodology is different in terms of how to approach the situation.
Not saying that no Euro standard will call for a S wrench, crow's foot, etc. Saying that the methodology is different in terms of how to approach the situation.
^^^this! at least for me.
sae & metric sockets, along with everything else a working homeowner needs to have on hand.
plus, it looks cool.
Parrothead
Well-known member
THIS! I can't tell you how many things I work on that require so many different tools.
impulse922
Well-known member
It probably has a lot to do with employers in europe providing tools vs providing your own tools in america.
Nick Danger
Well-known member
That's my thought. I have a 1500 sq ft house and an attached single garage. That's small in the USA, but it's huge in Europe.
Also, I do my own basic work for plumbing, woodworking, painting, stucco, electrical, appliance maintenance, and so on. Does everyone in Europe hire a pro when they need to patch the drywall or rebuild a leaky faucet? In America tradesmen are expensive and tools are cheap, so I buy my own tools and do the job for less. Then I need someplace to put the tools.
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BirdMobile
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- Joined
- Aug 16, 2014
- Messages
- 588
For the same reason everything else in America is big, bold, and badass. Because we like it that way!
wornoutoldman
Well-known member
Quantity/variety of tools = Increased speed of repair.
I can spend ten minutes struggling with a single wrench I might have to remove a fastener or I can have it off in seconds using an offset/angled/swiveling/ratcheting or other than standard wrench.
This is why I own over a 100 metric wrenches probably 5 or more of each size in various styles/configurations. If you have ever worked flat rate you know the value of more tools.
Speed of repair = Efficiency = More money in the paycheck.
I can spend ten minutes struggling with a single wrench I might have to remove a fastener or I can have it off in seconds using an offset/angled/swiveling/ratcheting or other than standard wrench.
This is why I own over a 100 metric wrenches probably 5 or more of each size in various styles/configurations. If you have ever worked flat rate you know the value of more tools.
Speed of repair = Efficiency = More money in the paycheck.
hutchingsvs
New member
Well I am not normal English tech as I have 84 epic with hutch and a 54 inch 700 series and still need more space.
Heavy Metal Doctor
Well-known member
I like how so many want to pick apart the big-box owners. Sure I have one, and it's something I'm proud to have worked up to.....and I have never PDI'd a single car in my life
To answer the OP's actual question, I like organization of the tools for speed sake, but I also think people are a little whacky that waste space with neatly laid out items spaced 4 inches apart. That's not my box. With the exception of my latest, which I did sorta buy just because I wanted a nicer box, I have only trade up / bigger when full and thing start getting too hard to find fast. Organization is a party of why I'm fast while my guys I supervise who refuse to buy more tools plod along at 1/4 my pace. Having every tool I need to do the work is also key. I don't really even care much about shop tools - I buy my own for all but the rarest used / most specialized. Being able to handle any job that comes in without going to the shop tools is, in my view, a guarantee for me that I WILL continue to always be able to earn that money - even if I left the company tomorrow, I can do just as good for the next employer, even if their shop doesn't own much for tools.
I also find it funny that most of the people I meet in the shop - customers, vendors and so on, all have positive comments about my big box. things like "dedicated to the job" and "take pride in your work". I only see the negative stuff around here.
Sure, there are the squirrely 20 YO kids who show up with a big SO KRL box that's devoid of tools beyond what most could carry in a little 2 drawer chest in the back of their car...but the work usually weeds them out pretty fast. They either step up and get the tools to fill it and do the job, or it ends up on CL when they change career paths.
I've also seen a lot of old timers who stick to working out of a small chest / roll around - under 30" wide sorta thing. But that has only been in two type of shops: strictly automotive where all they need fits, or some sort of fleet / gov't shop that has everything, even the small tools, to use from the tool room - no need to buy when it's available to use for free.
No doubt we are a consumer society - I think people spend their money in lots of ways I never would, but it's not my money, so I don't care.
To answer the OP's actual question, I like organization of the tools for speed sake, but I also think people are a little whacky that waste space with neatly laid out items spaced 4 inches apart. That's not my box. With the exception of my latest, which I did sorta buy just because I wanted a nicer box, I have only trade up / bigger when full and thing start getting too hard to find fast. Organization is a party of why I'm fast while my guys I supervise who refuse to buy more tools plod along at 1/4 my pace. Having every tool I need to do the work is also key. I don't really even care much about shop tools - I buy my own for all but the rarest used / most specialized. Being able to handle any job that comes in without going to the shop tools is, in my view, a guarantee for me that I WILL continue to always be able to earn that money - even if I left the company tomorrow, I can do just as good for the next employer, even if their shop doesn't own much for tools.
I also find it funny that most of the people I meet in the shop - customers, vendors and so on, all have positive comments about my big box. things like "dedicated to the job" and "take pride in your work". I only see the negative stuff around here.
Sure, there are the squirrely 20 YO kids who show up with a big SO KRL box that's devoid of tools beyond what most could carry in a little 2 drawer chest in the back of their car...but the work usually weeds them out pretty fast. They either step up and get the tools to fill it and do the job, or it ends up on CL when they change career paths.
I've also seen a lot of old timers who stick to working out of a small chest / roll around - under 30" wide sorta thing. But that has only been in two type of shops: strictly automotive where all they need fits, or some sort of fleet / gov't shop that has everything, even the small tools, to use from the tool room - no need to buy when it's available to use for free.
No doubt we are a consumer society - I think people spend their money in lots of ways I never would, but it's not my money, so I don't care.
flyingtpot
Well-known member
i like how so many want to pick apart the big-box owners. Sure i have one, and it's something i'm proud to have worked up to.....and i have never pdi'd a single car in my life
to answer the op's actual question, i like organization of the tools for speed sake, but i also think people are a little whacky that waste space with neatly laid out items spaced 4 inches apart. That's not my box. With the exception of my latest, which i did sorta buy just because i wanted a nicer box, i have only trade up / bigger when full and thing start getting too hard to find fast. Organization is a party of why i'm fast while my guys i supervise who refuse to buy more tools plod along at 1/4 my pace. Having every tool i need to do the work is also key. I don't really even care much about shop tools - i buy my own for all but the rarest used / most specialized. Being able to handle any job that comes in without going to the shop tools is, in my view, a guarantee for me that i will continue to always be able to earn that money - even if i left the company tomorrow, i can do just as good for the next employer, even if their shop doesn't own much for tools.
I also find it funny that most of the people i meet in the shop - customers, vendors and so on, all have positive comments about my big box. Things like "dedicated to the job" and "take pride in your work". I only see the negative stuff around here.
Sure, there are the squirrely 20 yo kids who show up with a big so krl box that's devoid of tools beyond what most could carry in a little 2 drawer chest in the back of their car...but the work usually weeds them out pretty fast. They either step up and get the tools to fill it and do the job, or it ends up on cl when they change career paths.
I've also seen a lot of old timers who stick to working out of a small chest / roll around - under 30" wide sorta thing. But that has only been in two type of shops: Strictly automotive where all they need fits, or some sort of fleet / gov't shop that has everything, even the small tools, to use from the tool room - no need to buy when it's available to use for free.
No doubt we are a consumer society - i think people spend their money in lots of ways i never would, but it's not my money, so i don't care.
BirdMobile
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2014
- Messages
- 588
Yes it does.I have better tools at home than i do at work and i would rather use my own tools and do things easier but employers don't want to pay me for using my own tools so i'm not sure which way i prefer american or european.
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SuperSheep
Well-known member
In theory every single of us at GJ with a huge toolboxes and lots of tools can likely get by with throwing everything in various sizes of cardboard box. Each labeled like "Sockets, Pullers, Screwdrivers, SAE Wrenches, Beer Keg, Glock 18, Bazooka, etc etc" and pile them one on top of another in the corner of their garage or hell.. even a ****** closet.
In practice while it could work if you have a super-duper godlike memory and a magical device that could pause time... you would have a hell of a time trying to work out of a setup like that, no matter DIY or PRO.
In reality, I will likely be lynched and exiled by the GJ mob of suggesting such heretical blasphemy of working out of cardboard boxes and storing tools in cardboard boxes.
Also I think it has something to do with 1. Flat-rate vs salary. 2. Employer provided vs Employee provided. 3. Different methodology and approach to a task (as cheechi explained) 4. Space
In practice while it could work if you have a super-duper godlike memory and a magical device that could pause time... you would have a hell of a time trying to work out of a setup like that, no matter DIY or PRO.
In reality, I will likely be lynched and exiled by the GJ mob of suggesting such heretical blasphemy of working out of cardboard boxes and storing tools in cardboard boxes.
Also I think it has something to do with 1. Flat-rate vs salary. 2. Employer provided vs Employee provided. 3. Different methodology and approach to a task (as cheechi explained) 4. Space
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Dave455
Well-known member
Well if folks reckon having to use SAE and Metric is the reason, they should try working in the U.K.
I need metric for most modern British vehicles, metric again for European (but a slightly different range of sizes) and metric yet again (with a third range of sizes) for Japanese!
I need SAE (we call it A/F) for British vehicles made up till the late 80/90's, and for U.S. Imports, and for anything aerospace (British or U.S.)!
Any vehicle pre 1955 is Whitworth, and likewise bikes, but they used them much later. Many machine tools are Whitworth too, even late manufactured ones, though I encounter some European stuff with Metric (though that's often S.I. metric that uses yet another range of sizes) and I've even seen a Swedish machine that used bolts with Whitworth threads and metric heads, or was it the other way around?
Any instrument work usually requires B.A. sizes, but you can usually get by with even sizes only, (except S.U. fuel pumps which use a 5 B.A. or some carbs which use 7).
The only sizes I hardly use are SAE/Unified numbered series, which were never adopted here, unless I'm working on aircraft instruments where they are standard!
Then we start on Internal hex for cap screws, then Torx, then all the other shite...
And you reckon YOU need a big toolbox...!
I need metric for most modern British vehicles, metric again for European (but a slightly different range of sizes) and metric yet again (with a third range of sizes) for Japanese!
I need SAE (we call it A/F) for British vehicles made up till the late 80/90's, and for U.S. Imports, and for anything aerospace (British or U.S.)!
Any vehicle pre 1955 is Whitworth, and likewise bikes, but they used them much later. Many machine tools are Whitworth too, even late manufactured ones, though I encounter some European stuff with Metric (though that's often S.I. metric that uses yet another range of sizes) and I've even seen a Swedish machine that used bolts with Whitworth threads and metric heads, or was it the other way around?
Any instrument work usually requires B.A. sizes, but you can usually get by with even sizes only, (except S.U. fuel pumps which use a 5 B.A. or some carbs which use 7).
The only sizes I hardly use are SAE/Unified numbered series, which were never adopted here, unless I'm working on aircraft instruments where they are standard!
Then we start on Internal hex for cap screws, then Torx, then all the other shite...
And you reckon YOU need a big toolbox...!
Dust Devil
Well-known member
Two great points.
Knowing you can deal with whatever goes down is bigtime piece of mind as far as I am concerned.
No doubt about the comments from customers..they either **** or go blind if I show off my tools. Most people are not used to a full on snap-on rig set up like a surgeons tools. Organization and preparedness add nicely to skill when it comes to making money.
RedneckWelder
Well-known member
I love the comments saying "a big box is compensating for a tiny ****"...I'd love to see you go into a shop and say that to a mechanic...
Farmall450
Well-known member
Exactly...double the sockets at wrenches.
Dust Devil
Well-known member
No......that's the lifted truck the customer brings in to get fixed....
Fretters
Well-known member
djb2
Well-known member
I can do 90% of what I need to with tools in small hand-carry bag. But getting things 90% done isn't especially popular. I'm not a pro and have limited my cars to a single brand, but it's easy to fill a full box with just a subset of the required tools. Like the thin-walled extra deep 30mm impact socket required to remove the transmission output flange. Or the narrow swivel sockets needed for the exhaust downpipe nuts. Or the several subframe bushing pullers.
I liked the comment "even bigger in Alaska".. If I had to hop on a small plane every time I needed a missing tool, I would have a huge toolbox array.
I liked the comment "even bigger in Alaska".. If I had to hop on a small plane every time I needed a missing tool, I would have a huge toolbox array.
Welcome to GJ! You're in the right crowd bro.
None of my boxes is over 42" so I don't qualify as one of those who has a big tool box but I fully support the need for them. I find tool boxes make space.
In defence of those with 3" space around each tool, it's hard to criticize when we don't know if they have just upgraded from a small box where the same tools were buried 3 deep. You have to have room for expansion because we all know what happens when a drawer gets overcrowded
. I have 4 drawers just for taps and dies. There are 3 types of taps for each size, then metric, sae and whitworth. There are also many specialty taps and left hand thread too and don't forget pipe threads but I won't get into that here.
I have close to 3 drawers full of files also. Many might say there is no need to store those types of tools in your tool box but then, where then? They will take up the same amount of space in your shop where ever you choose to properly store them. The most efficient storage is in thin drawers of a tool cabinet.
Same with blow moulded cases. The 1st thing I do with tools that come in them is stick the tools in my box and recycle the fitted cases. Who has room for shelf upon shelves of blow moulded cases to pick through then find a flat spot in a crowded shop where you can open it up and access the tool you need. Much faster to slide open a drawer, grab it and go. If I need to take that tool out to a job site (rarely), I can toss it in a carry bag or cardboard box for that occasion. I find a long tool cabinet with a work surface top is about the most efficient use of space in a shop and I'd like to have an entire wall of my shop set up like that.
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Don't read too much into my GJ join date, snappy-boy. I've been around a while. You've got bigger fish to fry, I'm sure of it. Like, how you're going to afford your next fruity custom colored behemoth tool showcase to impress your pals? Better get on that, junior.
JKady
Well-known member
I have a big *** service cart (KRSC40) because when I bought it, I worked in a big shop and was far away from my roll cab much of the time. Saved me walking back and forth, time saved = money earned.
I bought my 54" box because the cheaper Craftsman box I had had a bunch of tiny drawers that didn't fit half the tools I owned and my service cart was full of things that didn't need to be in there full time. I have a 26" Kennedy box on top of it for misc hardware and supplies and an old Craftsman locker that's about 18 wide and 4 foot tall for big bulky stuff that doesn't fit in drawers well.
I bought my 54" box because the cheaper Craftsman box I had had a bunch of tiny drawers that didn't fit half the tools I owned and my service cart was full of things that didn't need to be in there full time. I have a 26" Kennedy box on top of it for misc hardware and supplies and an old Craftsman locker that's about 18 wide and 4 foot tall for big bulky stuff that doesn't fit in drawers well.
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
I think many forget what it takes to be a "one-man-operation" mechanic in a non-dealer shop.
The shop where I work provides me with the following:
20 Ton Press
Coolant/oil/atf
General nuts and bolts
Torch/welder
All-data
Air
Racks
EVERYTHING else is on me.
Solus Ultra (among others), compression/leakdown testers, fuel pressure testers, dial indicators and micrometers, flaring tools, bleeding tools, bearing packers, sawz-all, drills and bits (both right and left handed), air hammer and bits, taps and dies, extractor bits, epoxies/silicone, ball joint press and adapters, multimeter and leads, power-probe, soldering iron(s), timing gun...............................
That doesn't even begin to touch actual hand tools. For instance, in 3/8 drive metric I have deep, semi-deep, and shallow, in both chrome and impact, plus super-shallow in chrome. That's one type of drive, only in metric, probably 75 sockets.
That, my friends, is how you have a KRL1033. And I'm still filling it up.
The shop where I work provides me with the following:
20 Ton Press
Coolant/oil/atf
General nuts and bolts
Torch/welder
All-data
Air
Racks
EVERYTHING else is on me.
Solus Ultra (among others), compression/leakdown testers, fuel pressure testers, dial indicators and micrometers, flaring tools, bleeding tools, bearing packers, sawz-all, drills and bits (both right and left handed), air hammer and bits, taps and dies, extractor bits, epoxies/silicone, ball joint press and adapters, multimeter and leads, power-probe, soldering iron(s), timing gun...............................
That doesn't even begin to touch actual hand tools. For instance, in 3/8 drive metric I have deep, semi-deep, and shallow, in both chrome and impact, plus super-shallow in chrome. That's one type of drive, only in metric, probably 75 sockets.
That, my friends, is how you have a KRL1033. And I'm still filling it up.
GTA Matt
Well-known member
You ought to last a long time with that attitude. Are you on your 3rd or 4th stint? Or is it more then that
Taking a dig at another mans tools, SMH.