Why Are Raised Panel Wrenches/Ratchets Bad?

[oldschoolcraft]

Through reading numerous old posts, it seems like the Raised Panel or RP style tools are considered poorer quality. But it's not clear why? The only comment I read about the RP itself was that the shape of it in the handle might be painful to use over long periods of time with the indentions going into your hands.

My best guess is that RP is a cheaper manufacturing method than laser engraving and it's not the RP itself that's bad, but the fact that the overall tool is cheap.

 

[lbhsbz]

The raised panel itself has nothing to do with the quality...it's the ratcheting mechanism attached to the raised panel handle that was **** on craftsman ratchets

I enjoy using Craftsman raised panel wrenches.

 

[d.mcfarland]

There are a million posts on this, almost everything about them is not that great except for the Craftsman warranty which will be needed when they don't work right.

 

[HanShotFirst]

Many don't like the way they feel in their hand. Personally, I have never been bothered by them at all.

As a general rule, many raised panel wrenches are not tip top quality. The old US made Craftsman were broached very well and are nice to work with, but they are well known for breaking under very heavy stress. Not recommended for a pro-wrench turner.

Personally, I haven't broken a single US made Craftsman wrench or socket in 30 years; so clearly they're good enough for this weekend warrior.

Other raised panel wrenches are often of inferior quality, with the exception of those made in the US. The SK raised panels are very tough wrenches.

Raised panel Craftsman ratchets; well there are those who love them and those who hate them. Count me amongst the haters...they consistently fail for me. I'm personally not bothered by the raised panel design, and when they're working they're just fine. But I just see no reason to put up with a CM raised panel ratchet when I can buy a used SK (or something similar) that will probably NEVER break on me.

Just my .02

 

[potato]

my main set are wright grip,backups are proto. i saw 2 sets of craftsman rp,made in usa, at a pawn and i still bought them.the wrenches are ok. the rp ratchets i equate to the cheapy round head junk ratchets.

 

[HanShotFirst]

my main set are wright grip,backups are proto. i saw 2 sets of craftsman rp,made in usa, at a pawn and i still bought them.the wrenches are ok. the rp ratchets i equate to the cheapy round head junk ratchets.

Yep...my 14 YO son is in need of tools. I picked up US made (V series) Craftsman raised panels in SAE and Metric. They served me well for several decades, no reason they won't work for him. He mainly wrenches on motorcycles.

I'm also getting him some US made Craftsman sockets and screwdrivers. Starting out with the basics.

 

[Musicinabottle]

All my SK wrenches are raised panel. No problems here.

 

[anndel]

I love my Craftsman RP wrenches and have no issues.

 

[bczygan]

Love my Craftsman ones. Strong enough to literally hammer on, and I do.

Bill

 

[gearhead1]

I like the RHFT raised panel Craftsman ratchets the best out of the Craftsman ratchets. I love Snap-on, but as a serious DIYer/weekend warrior, I can’t justify the cost over the Craftsman.

I work in a manufacturing plant and there is a lot of Craftsman tools and toolboxes being used by a Fortune 500 company. We’re not breaking stuff left and right that I’ve seen.....

 

[JuliusPepperwood]

My 43 pc craftsman raised panel wrench set is badass

 

[Fedwrench]

They're not bad.

However, some versions are better than others. I think the issue might be that the better versions of Craftsman were made years ago while other brands are better today than were previously.

 

[ssdave]

They work. They're not the best, but they're not the worst either. I used some of them for years; I gradually upgraded to others, and then finally just systematically eliminated them from my tools. You have to recognize also that the quality varied over the years, ebbing and flowing with the contractor making them and sometimes within the run from a manufacturer. That explains a lot of the varied experience people have had with them.

The problems I have had with them:

The combination wrenches have too much bevel on the box end; you lose up to 1/8" of holding capacity on the nut. Thin nuts, that's a problem. The DBE longs, I have had bend and twist. I have Proto and SO, they have not done so under the same usage. I have also found that the Craftsman systematically round off nuts/bolt heads easier than my better wrenches. Some of that is the bevel, I also believe some is wrench broach geometry. Subtle, but long use has verified that. I have also had some Cobinations and some DBE that had absurdly thick box ends that created clearance problems. The DBE's that I really liked and had a set of for years did not, but they were the ones that also bent. So, thicker wrenches equated to more strength; but caused clearance problems. You couildn't win. I replaced them with Proto that were both thin AND strong, and have been much more satisfied with them.

I had one of the coveted Vee selector switch flex head ratchets that I liked;but it failed because the pawls/mechanism weren't strong enough. When it was warranted out, it was replaced by a junky one that randomly switched directions when you were pulling on it, causing you to slip and damage your hands. That was the final straw that made me go to all better ratchets. I had some Williams, SK, and Proto already and one Snap-on, so it was easy to know where to turn to for better.

They're okay general use wrenches; just use them within their capabilities. When they start feeling that they're springing, slipping, or bending, stop pulling because they probably will fail you. The ratchets are less useful, some are better than others, but don't trust them for heavy pulling. A lot of people never push them to their limits; for those uses they are very good wrenches and ratchets.

I personally have never had a problem with the feel on my hands; I prefer others, but don't mind the feel of the raised panels.

 

[bobcatdan]

The ratchets have steadily gotten crappier over the years. As for the wrenches, they are not the most precision fit. Yes they work fine most of the time, but I have found where they will start to round off, a better brand will not. I can say this about the open and box ends. In my opinion, the wrenches are a useable tool. The ratchets I would pass on unless they are an older vintage, 70's or older.

 

[Gmonkee]

CM rp tools have been made by dozens of makers over time. Some versions by a few makers as great, most as average and a few not so great.

CM is a brand that cannot be judged so easily for this fact. I prefer to avoid them all in my own stuff but have India made non CM RP wrenches that are pretty good. Those I would not trade for CM versions just to avoid the crapshoot they are.

 

[grumpychevy]

They have worked well for me for many years also as I’ve never broke a wrench. However i found out the hard way in a hotel parking lot changing a serpentine belt on my truck that the 15mm US made RP in my road box was only 15mm on the open end side and the box end side was more like 14mm. an exchange fixed that. My one complaint would be that they are shorter than higher end combo wrenches it seems. Not that big of a deal for a 10mm, quite the opposite on say a 24mm where more leverage could be the difference between no problem and the beginnings of a bad day. I’ve broke my fair share of teeth on the ol’ US made RP ratchets, my busted knuckles over the years confirm to me they leave something to be desired.

 

[Indy125]

I wrench professionally, not on cars, and use the Craftsman RP 12 and 6 point wrenches everyday with no issues at all. Proud to use USA tools!

 

[JazzBlueRT]

Through reading numerous old posts, it seems like the Raised Panel or RP style tools are considered poorer quality. But it's not clear why? The only comment I read about the RP itself was that the shape of it in the handle might be painful to use over long periods of time with the indentions going into your hands.

My best guess is that RP is a cheaper manufacturing method than laser engraving and it's not the RP itself that's bad, but the fact that the overall tool is cheap.

RP wrenches are a design and there is nothing inherently cheap or inferior because of the design. Some people like them some hate them.

Craftsman is known for their RP wrenches and ratchets. There seems to be a small but vocal group of people on the internet with Craftsmanaphobia and "China Aversion Disorder." Mentioning Craftsman will trigger them resulting in flame wars and banned accounts.

 

[JazzBlueRT]

They're okay general use wrenches; just use them within their capabilities. When they start feeling that they're springing, slipping, or bending, stop pulling because they probably will fail you.

I always suspected that many of the DIY brands design their tools specifically to do this to let the DIYer know to use a different approach.

For a weekend wrencher, having the tool fail before it does catastrophic damage to the fastener can be considered a valuable feature. A rounded bolt is an annoyance, but you can still drive the vehicle to get help removing it. A sheered bolt can end with a disabled car, missed work and lost wages and tow truck fees.

 

[Super Sport]

As others have said, it has nothing to do with the RP design itself (other than it is not the most ergonomic design). It has more to do with other quality issues, such as clunky ratcheting mechanisms. The biggest issue most seem to have with the wrenches is that they're short in length, but otherwise seem to work just fine (at least the USA-made examples).

Craftsman tools have typically been "good enough" for the DIYer. It was a brand you could rely on for at least decent quality, if not good or great.

 

[nbruno]

To answer the original question, I don't think there is a problem with RP wrenches or ratchets, they're no less comfortable in my hands than my Matco, snap on, Mac, sunex or cornwell wrenches. Usually if I'm pulling that hard I'm holding the opposite end of the wrench for maximum leverage not the middle.


Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[Wamsutta]

Short Answer: Ergonomics, or the lack thereof.

 

[kb1982]

In my experiences, the raised panel wrenches are leaps and bounds above the RP ratchets. I have broke only 2 wrenches from the set I bought in 1997. Broke the box end of one double wrenching (it was the box end on the open end, not on the bolt) and the other using a cheater pipe. With that said, I am dubious of using the open ends of them. Proceed with caution on that front. As for the ratchets, I have broke several of them, from grenading the teeth inside to the selector switch breaking off from dropping it. I just recently upgraded my metric RP wrenches to SK a couple of weeks ago. Due to most fasteners on cars being metric, the SAE RP wrenches will stay put, but I do have a set of SK X frames in SAE also. As for the ratchets, they are just for nostalgia and dont see much use anymore, even though I did just receive a v shifter flex 3/8" in the mail today.

 

[ssdave]

That Vee shifter flex is the only ratchet I ever liked by CM. But, mine didn't hold up to even moderate use. The SO and Indestro and Proto flex 3/8" ones that replaced it have all held up well; I like the Indestro the best, although i do like the SO one too. I don't like the feel and balance of the Proto, but it works well.

 

[Mikeske]

I have a full set of Craftsman raised panel ratchets, wrenches and sockets in SAE and metric that I was given as birthday present in 1973 or 1974 by my father and older brother. I still have these tools. I used them exclusively at home as in a professional setting they just not good enough.

In the early 1980's I bought my Bonney professional tool set and used these as a aircraft mechanic for my entire career until I retired last year. The Craftsman set was my home use set except I hated the ratchets so bad that I bought used Snap-on ratchets at pawn shops and the such as even then they made the finest ratchets and I ended up taking my Snap-on ratchets to work and took my Bonney ratchets home.

So in my setup everything at work was Bonney with the Snap-on ratchets and at home the Bonney ratchets and the Craftsman stuff has set for the last 30-40 odds years, I don't use the ratchets as they were so crude compared to other brands even in the 1980's and the I had a terrible time with them reversing direction because of the flip level and the way I use the ratchets. The issue with the ratchets is they don't mix well with someone with smaller hands as I tended to use both hands a lot on the ratchets. It does not take one person a long time to realize having a reverse at the wrong time and torn up hands means the ratchet ends up flying out into the driveway with enough force that I did not want it around.

I find the raised panel wrenches were also useless in a professional environment as they had a poor offset, they were short and they tended to dig into your hands where my Bonney never did. In most cases I want the longest possible length of wrench for the best application of torque to either install or remove fasteners. Yeah there are areas of limited access I had short wrenches that were slightly deeper in the box and open end that so out perform the Craftsman that I never had them at work.

For home use these are OK but they were even by 1970's standards a bit crude and the quality could and was somewhat spotty.

The raised panels just were slightly below average and the only thing had going for them was the warranty and even that is a thing of the past as far as I am concerned with Sears at the crossroads of making it or not.

 

[Rickster]

The older Craftsman RHFT (round head fine tooth) ratchets are really nice ratchets. Unfortunately everyone seems to lump all the Craftsman raised panel rats together and that's just not right.

 

[Jim c]

I used to work professionally on cars back in the 80’s and 90’ s and used pretty much exclusively craftsman wrenches and ratchets. They were affordable, and not junk. Always a problem: the length of the wrenches... too short for leverage at times. The ratchets: the round head ones were really cheap. The fine tooth ratchets with the finger rotator wheel were really very nice.. I would say if you have one of those keep it for sure. The regular ratchets with the flick selector .. sometimes the selector would be cruddy and you would have to go to sears and get a replacement , always easy no hassle. So I guess you had to swap them out until you got what worked. The flex head ratchets are my personal favorite.. they are long handled for plenty of leverage and that flex head is a dream for getting in tight areas. Just want to mention the tool truck wrenches have a much better fit on the nuts and bolts... so when you are really gonna pull hard on something, maybe you should pause and go borrow a Mac or snap on14 mm etc.. but the shorter length of the craftsman is kind of like a built in safety that keeps you from using them for those super tight applications because they will hurt your hand due to the short length and extra force required. Really, nobody working on cars can truly afford the prices of the tool truck wrenches for all of their tools. And, if they did purchase all snap on, then they have really exposes themselves to be8ng attractive to thieves. Craftsman is a disincentive for stealing, so you can work and rest peacefully without fear of loss. Also, check out norther tools long pattern combination wrench sets.. thin, seem strong, and are long for plenty of leverage. I picked up a set because they remind me of Mac matco and snap on. And they have a very nice roll which makes them great for quick deployment. Just my opinions.

 

[RedneckWelder]

The ratchets are **** plain and simple. Clunky as **** and so much room to engage the next tooth. Only thing worse is the Uber cheap dollar store grade ratchets. When I got my first Kobalt 72 tooth Ratchets I was amazed at the difference in feel. Snap on Dual 80s, when I got on a tool truck, purely amazing. Same goes for Cornwell (smooth and tight even being low tooth count) Matco, etc

The wrenches are usable but short. I don't notice a discomfort. Open ends do spread on the smaller sizes. Better brands seem to take more force to spread. Not too many complaints from me about the wrenches but I loathe the ratchets.

 

[Jason280]

I'll agree, the pear shaped coarse tooth ratchets are terrible...but I really like the raised panel combination wrenches. In fact, I buy them anytime I find them in pawn shops, regardless if I already have the size. Most of the times, they can be bought for under $1 each.

 

[blackwire]

I never had a problem with a raised panel hurting my hands. The mechanism on the rp pear head is clunky compared to more modern fine tooth designs though. The only time I had a problem with a ratchet as far as ergonomics was the ones with knurled handles. After a few weeks of daily use they started to wear the skin off my hands.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Many don't like the way they feel in their hand. Personally, I have never been bothered by them at all.

CONCUR !

It is hard to explain the quality issue, but if you place a 30+ year old ratchet next to a brand new one, to me it is obvious. They just don't look as nice.

 

[HanShotFirst]

The ratchets have steadily gotten crappier over the years. As for the wrenches, they are not the most precision fit. Yes they work fine most of the time, but I have found where they will start to round off, a better brand will not. I can say this about the open and box ends. In my opinion, the wrenches are a useable tool. The ratchets I would pass on unless they are an older vintage, 70's or older.

I have never found fit to be the problem; they fit just fine. It's just that the steel quality isn't on par with Snap On or other top brands. When they round fasteners it's not because of fit, but because the open end is spreading.

 

[Parrothead]

I have the Craftsman rp wrenches in metric, sae and also the 6pt sets too. I’ve used them in a professional environment when I was doing that type of work. They were fine to me. Heck, I even had a cheater pipe specific to fit the wrenches. Never an issue. Admittedly I didn’t use the open end often, so there’s that. The 6pt were nice when you had the clearance and really needed the torque. 6pt and a cheater pipe didn’t lose often. Haha.

*I have the Craftsman Pros too, as well as Armstrong, SK and others.

Now the ratchets...um...no. Even my no name Taiwan ratchets from the auto parts stores were better. Only the plastic dial ratchets are worse than the Craftsman pear heads. Awful. Too bad too, because I like the look and style aesthetically.

 

[RAS61]

I think the wrenches are pretty good, the raised panel can be a little uncomfortable when really pulling on em, that's the only downside I see, but no big deal for me.

The ratchets on the other hand are a total POS, especially the later ones. They bind and slip, terrible guts inside.

 

[MShaw]

I worked for New Britain in the early 1970s. They made New Britain and Blackhawk wrenches that were like SO except not polished and also Husky, Sparta and Penncraft that were raised panel. The joke is that they were all made from the same steel, machined and heat treated with the same equipment and plated on the same line. And, since the "lesser" lines had the raised panel they used slightly more material, were more expensive to forge and had a greater area to polish and were less expensive to buy.

 

[earlthegoat2]

I honestly try to forget the RP ratchets even exist.

The RP wrenches are good enough with a few considerations. For only a bit more money you can be into some Gearwrench long patterns which are just way more useable. The RPs have a bulkier box end which can run into clearance problems in tight spots. I happen to have to do daily maintenance to a few industrial machines that have this tight clearance around a bolt I need to get to which is why I ditched the RPs at work.

They are also too short for most of my work and like above, the open end is a tad thicker which I have had experience with when I was accessing a tight area and could not slide the open end of the wrench though the gap.

 

[Jtels85]

The last of the USA made RP ratchets are so terrible that the China made RP ratchets are better quality. It’s not so much RP as it is the 36 tooth mechanism. All of my 36 tooth USA Craftsman and NAPA/Danahar ratchets are awful, but they were the among the first tools I ever bought. Any 36 tooth Craftsman ratchet that was made in China, I also own and keep in my travel boxes. It doesn’t matter if it’s a 1/4”, 3/8” or a 1/2” flex, when compared side by side (USA vs China), the China will win hands down every time. It’s rather unfortunate, but it’s reality. Everyone wants to complain about Chinese Made Craftsman and there are more valid points than not, but when it comes to the ratchets... nostalgia and American pride doesn’t trump the fact that the Chinese managed to make a better ratchet than Danahar did. That’s also not saying much considering none of these ratchets beat my Carlyle Power 90’s... but that’s a discussion for another time.

As for the RP wrenches, as long as they’re USA made... they were fantastic wrenches for the price. Mine are all stamped “VA” and have been used quite extensively. The length has rarely been an issue (but I have other wrenches for that purpose). They are a solid wrench. Complain all you want about them hurting your hands... it is what it is. That’s exactly how I feel about everyone’s beloved Snap-On tri-lobe, ***** handle screwdrivers. I bought a set and sold them on eBay the day after they arrived. Garbage. Bought a set of MAC Duratek’s and never looked back.

 

[Danglerb]

The only problem with RP is that I have other stuff I like using more. Its border line if I would bother going and getting something else if all I had nearby were RP, depends on how long I would be doing the task. Same for some screwdrivers.

 

[mudflap]

I was an SK kid...thats what Dad and Gramps had, and used on the farm...so thats what my first experience with tools was..helping them work on stuff, working on my bicycles, the later working on my junk cars... But i know alot of guys grew up with CM around the garage.. and i have some now.. I think there are alot of "closet" CM lovers on here.....and the CM hate on here is partially due to tool snobbery... and thats to be expected.. I have a set of old 6pt RP wrenches at work... they have never stripped a bolt/nut..and have cheater pipe marks all over them...stll going strong after many yrs of professional use...i like the look, and the feel of the RP in my hand...but i have big hands..and cant stand the thin wrenches.. The only other CM tool i use alot at work is a 3/8 China ratchet, i won it in a set a few yrs ago at a trap shoot.. the little guy has zero..i mean ZERO...backdrag. So i use it alot on small stuff like Dozer dash panels, etc. Thats right kids....i will leave the SO in the box...and chose the CM..RP ratchet to work with ..on some things.. Thats my full report on CM..RP. ..END

 

[Qualitytools]

The older Craftsman RHFT (round head fine tooth) ratchets are really nice ratchets. Unfortunately everyone seems to lump all the Craftsman raised panel rats together and that's just not right.

+1 on the Craftsman round head fine tooth.