Why are small vertical metal cutting band saws nonexistent??

[TerryH]

I'd really like to have a small vertical metal cutting band saw for sawing shapes, plate etc.. I have a cold cut saw and a portaband already for general cutting. Interesting to me that there are a bazillion small wood band saws but virtually nothing in the metal cutting speeds. Assuming that the manufacturers don't think there is a big enough market for such? I'm planning on building a table for my portaband and that'll work ok but just found it interesting that there is virtually nothing to be had in the small metal cutting vertical saw market.

 

[pbon]

Do you have a table for your portaband like the Swag?

 

[duhicky]

The 4x6 grizzly/harbor freight bandsaw has a pin to lock it vertical and comes with a light weight table that bolts to the guide. I have used mine this way cutting out knife blanks. It’s not amazing but fits a budget and gives you horizontal and vertical. I’ve seen one guy build a seat that clamps in the horizontal table for working in vertical mode.

 

[TerryH]

Do you have a table for your portaband like the Swag?

Bought materials yesterday to build one.

 

[TerryH]

The 4x6 grizzly/harbor freight bandsaw has a pin to lock it vertical and comes with a light weight table that bolts to the guide. I have used mine this way cutting out knife blanks. It’s not amazing but fits a budget and gives you horizontal and vertical. I’ve seen one guy build a seat that clamps in the horizontal table for working in vertical mode.

I have/am considering this but don't really have room for the footprint of the 4x6 saws nor do I particularly care for the tables that come with them. I'm toying with the idea of buying one and removing the saw from the stand and making a stand and a better table. Seems like a lot of work but may still do it.

 

[duhicky]

I have/am considering this but don't really have room for the footprint of the 4x6 saws nor do I particularly care for the tables that come with them. I'm toying with the idea of buying one and removing the saw from the stand and making a stand and a better table. Seems like a lot of work but may still do it.

That is one of my projects I am waiting to get too. It is way to short doing horizontal work.

 

[kelpaso1]

The 4x6 grizzly/harbor freight bandsaw has a pin to lock it vertical and comes with a light weight table that bolts to the guide. I have used mine this way cutting out knife blanks. It’s not amazing but fits a budget and gives you horizontal and vertical. I’ve seen one guy build a seat that clamps in the horizontal table for working in vertical mode.

I made my own table out of piece of shelving. I also added a flashlight and the small tubing is hooked to a fish pump to blow the chips away so you can see the line you are cutting on.

 

[Ign]

Yep, SWAG. Props to OP for building one - I wouldn't have the time (although ironically I've got all the ability)

 

[dr_clyde]

Wilton made one way back in the day, shop I worked at had one. It was ok. The problem is metal cutting saws have to be heavy and rigid to do what you want.

Delta/Rockwell also had a slow speed gearbox, as did Walker Turner.

 

[BWS]

Fully resto'd Walker Turner 14" gearbox saw here.One of 1/2 dz metal and wood BS's.Gearhead 7×12 horizontal gets treated like a rented mule for metal.The above W/T sits next to it,living a charmed life.It's pretty nice but would get a decent size horizontal first.

And you can throw portabands in a vise,weld a small "table" on the existing framework guide.... to augment above saw reco's.

 

[TerryH]

Yep, SWAG. Props to OP for building one - I wouldn't have the time (although ironically I've got all the ability)

I realize that my OCD is at a crazy level but I can’t stand all those extra holes in the Swag tables.

 

[BWS]

Another metal BS here..... it's one of those C-man,almost as big as those cheapo HF horizantals.I bought it cheap and basically too lazy to get up from Tig bench and walk 50+ feet over to the 7X12.

Anyfreakinway,they would be worth seeking out.As they come from the factory they're a little wonky in arrangements. But,mount the motor to the frame back,run a shorter belt and some other reconfigured and they're an option for a smaller footprint vert BS.

NOTICEABLY more cap than a portaband,with barely more footprint.Most folks look down their noses at them? which keeps pricing low.As issued they ain't hitting on a whole lot but shine with a reconfigure.

 

[Mohawk Dave]

I have a badass "small" vertical.....compared to a 20" or 36" DoAll style.

Mine is a Leten LCM 300A. They were marketed under a couple different names. Mine was a three-phase and I just put a single phase motor in it and abandoned the blade welder. But Google that and you can see what I'm talking about. It's rated for up to 1" plate.

The only thing much smaller is a portaband with a table like the other guys are talking about.

As much as I wanted a 20 inch or 36 inch I just don't have the real estate space for it. And I've come across really good deals on them so the money was not an issue. I just need a bigger shop. LOL

 

[Showkey]

For the money and quality SWAG with a Milwaukee is hard to beat. Their design is well thought out and execution is near perfect.

 

[toolchaser]

I've got one of the older small Wiltons. Ironically, I have room for a full size, & my neighbor has a DoAll in his farm shop, but he's not ready to part with it yet. If you can find the Wilton, it's a fairly well built saw, but the footprint isn't that small compared to the smaller DoAll.

 

[TerryH]

I have a badass "small" vertical.....compared to a 20" or 36" DoAll style.

Mine is a Leten LCM 300A. They were marketed under a couple different names. Mine was a three-phase and I just put a single phase motor in it and abandoned the blade welder. But Google that and you can see what I'm talking about. It's rated for up to 1" plate.

The only thing much smaller is a portaband with a table like the other guys are talking about.

As much as I wanted a 20 inch or 36 inch I just don't have the real estate space for it. And I've come across really good deals on them so the money was not an issue. I just need a bigger shop. LOL

Something like that Leten would be the ticket. Delta 14" keeps coming to mind also. Apparently such a thing used is unheard of in my area.

 

[zkling]

With CNC mills and plasma/laser/water tables being more readily available, contour sawing has become a thing of the past for the majority of industry. A number of the offshore makers such as Grizzly, Baileigh and Jet all make sub 20" vertical metal saws but they start around $2K.

A good gear box, as is needed for a metal cutting saw is costly, as is a stiff enough frame to properly tension a metal cutting blade.

The 14" delta units are decent for the home shop and sheet metal or thinner plate, but are far behind a true welded frame metal cutting saw.

 

[bsg]

Look for a Powermatic model 143 band saw, same footprint as the 14 Delta saw but a much better saw, IMHO!

I’ve owned 14” Delta and a model 143 Powermatic and still own several DoAll band saws, if I was limited on space I would pick the Powermatic hands down!

Kevin

 

[Maui]

I have a 12" Atlas band saw with a very small footprint that is built like a tank. In order to cut metal with it all I would need to do is add a jack shaft between the motor and saw pulley to reduce the gear ratio down to the appropriate value. This is exactly how my 1939 Walker-Turner 16" band saw is set up for metal cutting, and it works beautifully.

Maui

 

[jonesg]

Plasma.!

 

[dr_clyde]

Plasma.!

Not even in the same league. Plasma is a rough tool. A good vertical contour saw can handle way more jobs with far more precision.

I have a nice hypertherm plasma. I almost never use it. I have a 16" DoAll that gets switched on for something at least daily.

 

[Doug Arthurs]

I have a plasma but I hate using the thing. Too messy in my opinion. I also have a Doall vertical bandsaw and it is excellant for most contour sawing I do.

 

[mowkep]

We have a Craftsman 10 inch variable speed bandsaw. It's been sitting broke for over 10 years. I think the motor fried. Total garbage

 

[dr_clyde]

We have a Craftsman 10 inch variable speed bandsaw. It's been sitting broke for over 10 years. I think the motor fried. Total garbage

If it is garbage why have you hung on to it for 10 years?

 

[Vegaman_Dan]

I got a portaband saw and immediately made a stand for it and it was *fantastic*. Snapped a blade after a couple of months of use and replaced it with some I picked up off Amazon. I broke all three blades in about 10 minutes. Every single one snapped at the weld joint. I was working with 1/8" plate, straight cut, slow feed and blade speed was slow too. Previous blade chewed through it like butter, but the replacements all had failures at the weld joints. I was not impressed.

Now I'd like to find a quality metal blade for the unit. Shoot, even the HF blades lasted longer.

 

[TerryH]

I got a portaband saw and immediately made a stand for it and it was *fantastic*. Snapped a blade after a couple of months of use and replaced it with some I picked up off Amazon. I broke all three blades in about 10 minutes. Every single one snapped at the weld joint. I was working with 1/8" plate, straight cut, slow feed and blade speed was slow too. Previous blade chewed through it like butter, but the replacements all had failures at the weld joints. I was not impressed.

Now I'd like to find a quality metal blade for the unit. Shoot, even the HF blades lasted longer.

I've run Lennox blades on my portabands from square one. Never had any issue with them.

 

[454ragtop]

I have a badass "small" vertical.....compared to a 20" or 36" DoAll style.

Mine is a Leten LCM 300A. They were marketed under a couple different names. Mine was a three-phase and I just put a single phase motor in it and abandoned the blade welder. But Google that and you can see what I'm talking about. It's rated for up to 1" plate.

The only thing much smaller is a portaband with a table like the other guys are talking about.

As much as I wanted a 20 inch or 36 inch I just don't have the real estate space for it. And I've come across really good deals on them so the money was not an issue. I just need a bigger shop. LOL

Wow, you're the only other person I've run into that has one of these. Picked mine up for dirt years ago, welder doesn't work, all the guts are missing. Crazy rugged and heavy for a 12" saw though. Mines 115 volt, with a shift on the fly 4 speed transmission. Love mine, if you can find one, buy it.

 

[ericlar80]

I realize that my OCD is at a crazy level but I can’t stand all those extra holes in the Swag tables.

Just weld the extra holes closed and grind the bump down with a flap disc.

 

[ericlar80]

I got a portaband saw and immediately made a stand for it and it was *fantastic*. Snapped a blade after a couple of months of use and replaced it with some I picked up off Amazon. I broke all three blades in about 10 minutes. Every single one snapped at the weld joint. I was working with 1/8" plate, straight cut, slow feed and blade speed was slow too. Previous blade chewed through it like butter, but the replacements all had failures at the weld joints. I was not impressed.

Now I'd like to find a quality metal blade for the unit. Shoot, even the HF blades lasted longer.

Lenox blades work pretty well; I buy them from Lowes. They do eventually become brittle and crack after a few months of use.

 

[mowkep]

If it is garbage why have you hung on to it for 10 years?

It's at our machine shop sitting on the top of some lockers. It's out of the way and should be thrown out. If I had time and no work, I probably could throw out a dumpster full of stuff that has been saved.

 

[PugetDude]

I have/am considering this but don't really have room for the footprint of the 4x6 saws nor do I particularly care for the tables that come with them. I'm toying with the idea of buying one and removing the saw from the stand and making a stand and a better table. Seems like a lot of work but may still do it.

Here's mine. Two pieces of scrap aluminum, and a half-dozen machine screws. A 4" long piece of 2x2 to hold the trigger on. Takes up no floor or bench space, I just hang it on the wall when I'm not using it.

 

[PugetDude]

I got a portaband saw and immediately made a stand for it and it was *fantastic*. Snapped a blade after a couple of months of use and replaced it with some I picked up off Amazon. I broke all three blades in about 10 minutes. Every single one snapped at the weld joint. I was working with 1/8" plate, straight cut, slow feed and blade speed was slow too. Previous blade chewed through it like butter, but the replacements all had failures at the weld joints. I was not impressed.

Now I'd like to find a quality metal blade for the unit. Shoot, even the HF blades lasted longer.

Starrett 10/14 tooth Cobalt blades last a long time for me. I've cut 1/2" plate, pipe, angle, square tube, etc...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-Cobalt-P...ng-Starrett-/202015206277?hash=item2f090b6b85

 

[Mohawk Dave]

Wow, you're the only other person I've run into that has one of these. Picked mine up for dirt years ago, welder doesn't work, all the guts are missing. Crazy rugged and heavy for a 12" saw though. Mines 115 volt, with a shift on the fly 4 speed transmission. Love mine, if you can find one, buy it.

And even crazier is right after I got mine, my buddy looks on CL and finds another one (so we jumped on it)! It is green and under a different name, but same thing. I couldn't believe it.

Ours have a Reeves drive for variable speed on the fly, a real gearbox, and then a super cool air pump that blows air onto your cut.

I absolutely love mine as well.

 

[matt_i]

With CNC mills and plasma/laser/water tables being more readily available, contour sawing has become a thing of the past for the majority of industry

I don't claim to represent "industry" but if I have a piece to profile-mill (CNC) out of a piece of flat stock, I'll bandsaw waste away before I turn it to chips.

I figure it saves on the edge tool life and I might be able to make something else out of the offcut. I will also call up a faster ipm feedrate if I know I'm not hogging off mega-stock as well.

However, I can see the time = money side of it also when trying to turn a profit, which I am currently not.

My Dad has a PM 143 - great saw, I have a PM 87 which is similar saw in 20" capacity, not as nice as a DoAll, but does a lot of work without complaint.

 

[jonesg]

Not even in the same league. Plasma is a rough tool. A good vertical contour saw can handle way more jobs with far more precision.

I have a nice hypertherm plasma. I almost never use it. I have a 16" DoAll that gets switched on for something at least daily.

Ever see what cnc plasma table can do?
The roughness is in your hand.

 

[dr_clyde]

Ever see what cnc plasma table can do?
The roughness is in your hand.

I ran a CNC plasma table for years. They have their place, and that is cheap, fast cutting on complex parts where you don't have edge quality requirements. Even HD plasma has a long way to go. They are still light years behind real industrial CNC cutting, ie lasers and waterjets. If I have more than 1 part to make and I don't need it now, I will sub it to the laser shop for almost what I can buy the material for. Thick material goes on the waterjet.

I stand by my statement. A contour saw is the correct tool for most one off cuts. They are inexpensive, versatile, and FAST. No drawing, programming, loading the material, homing the machine, no fumes, sparks, dross, or heat. Just push the on button and start cutting. Maybe a blade change if you are cutting out of your ordinary.

A small CNC plasma is usually at least 10k by the time you get the table, the cutter, any software required, and then you have fume management, a water table to maintain, and a huge amount of floor space taken up. You might get lucky and get a cheap torchmate or something for less. A nice DoAll contour saw is going to cost less than the plasma unit.

Most of the time, I don't need to do anything to a saw cut edge. If I do, a quick deburr on the belt sander is all that is needed.

I have personally cut 1-1/2" thick steel and 2" aluminum tooling plate on my saw. A home shop CNC plasma won't touch that.

There is more to sawing than just flat plate too. A good saw can cut features on structural shapes, notch tubes, cut bevels, and so on.

With the right blades, you can cut pretty much anything.

 

[jonesg]

Here's mine. Two pieces of scrap aluminum, and a half-dozen machine screws. A 4" long piece of 2x2 to hold the trigger on. Takes up no floor or bench space, I just hang it on the wall when I'm not using it.

It'll never work, its too clever, the colors don't match.
I'll think up other reasons...

 

[BikerDad]

Define "small".

Here's a 14" metal/wood saw you can buy new today. By some lights in this thread, it qualifies as "small."

http://www.jettools.com/us/en/p/j-8201k-14-metal-wood-vertical-bandsaw/414500

I had an earlier model of this saw, used it almost exclusively for wood, never changed speeds. The column on mine was cracked, so when I moved I donated it. Had the column not been cracked, I would still have it.

Now I have a SWAG setup for cutting metal, only with a proper Porta-Band (DeWalt, who borrowed the branding from their corporate cousin Porter-Cable, inventor of the Porta-Band), not some Milwaukee knock-off. It definitely qualifies as "small", the whole thing takes up less than 1/4 of the table on my 24" bandsaw.

 

[Mohawk Dave]

Define "small".

Here's a 14" metal/wood saw you can buy new today. By some lights in this thread, it qualifies as "small."

http://www.jettools.com/us/en/p/j-8201k-14-metal-wood-vertical-bandsaw/414500

I personally consider that small as well. In reading the manual, I think something got lost in translation. I know the height capacity is 6"...but the manual says on page 13, link: http://content.jettools.com/assets/manuals/414500_man_EN.pdf
----------------------
(The chart provides speeds
that are based on cutting a 4-inch thick work piece
using a bi-metal blade without cutting fluid.)
The following conditions should also be considered:

1. Increase speed 15% for materials 1/4-
inchthick, 12% for 3/4-inch thick, 10% for 1
1/4-inch thick, and 5% for 2 1/2-inch thick.
2. Decrease speed 12% when cutting 8-inch thick
material.
----------------------

4" thick!? 8" thick?! That's incredulous (and it won't fit ) or am I reading that wrong?

 

[6PTsocket]

I personally consider that small as well. In reading the manual, I think something got lost in translation. I know the height capacity is 6"...but the manual says on page 13, link: http://content.jettools.com/assets/manuals/414500_man_EN.pdf
----------------------
(The chart provides speeds
that are based on cutting a 4-inch thick work piece
using a bi-metal blade without cutting fluid.)
The following conditions should also be considered:

1. Increase speed 15% for materials 1/4-
inchthick, 12% for 3/4-inch thick, 10% for 1
1/4-inch thick, and 5% for 2 1/2-inch thick.
2. Decrease speed 12% when cutting 8-inch thick
material.
----------------------

4" thick!? 8" thick?! That's incredulous (and it won't fit [emoji38]_hitti ) or am I reading that wrong?

I have the old Delta/Rockwell that looks very similar, clutch,gear box, reversing pulleys same range of speeds, etc. I have a chart from mine that covers solid stock, tubing, steel, brass, alumininum, and thickness. There are a number of factors detirmining the correct speed, blade choice and lube. I usually use a lube stick. If you also use it for wood, you don't want to get it sloppy wet with cutting oil.

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