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Why are spark plug tools 3/8 drive?

Kuma601

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The young guys 20-30's may not have a problem but after years of causal wrenching, I don't want to add additional hand stress. My hands are sore/hurt after a dedicated session and I cannot imagine the pro guys who've been doing this for 20+ years. My plumber and electrician friends in that 50'ish range tell me how much their hands hurt now.

I do like 1/4" sizes yet for 1/4" drives I'm looking at long handles so that they provide leverage. The 3/8" ratchet purchases of late have been long handles, makes a big difference.
 
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Hohn

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I've collected several sparkplug sockets over the years. Even between 1/2 and 3/8. Torque is probably the reason though. Nothing like overtorquing a spark plug. A hard to remove spark plug is a spark plug installed incorrectly.
Usually, but sometimes just age and thermal cycles will seize it good. Worst I ever had was a ran hard 90s Taurus.
 

MattGarage

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Usually, but sometimes just age and thermal cycles will seize it good. Worst I ever had was a ran hard 90s Taurus.

Good point. My favorites are motorcycles. Some harleys and dirtbikes I've had were a prayer short of stripping the head.

The worse spark plug job ever was a Ford E250 with 5.8 Cleveland. Absolute insane geometry and torque needed to make that thing give up the goods but I got it.
 

2ndGearRubber

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Most Denso or NGK plugs use about 13-15 ft pounds torque. I have seen good quality 1/4 ratchet fails at about 70 ft lbs. So spark plug tools are right in the alley of 1/4 tools. So I am pretty puzzled why most spark plug specific tools use 3/8 drive? Given the increasingly crowded engine bay 1/4 makes a lot more sense, doesn't it?

One possible explanation is that 1/4 torque wrench often stops at 15 ft lbs or so. Then it is natural to ask why not make a 1/4 torque wrench going up to 30 ft lbs? As of now, using chunky 3/8 tools for spark plugs seems pretty dumb. Any opinions?

Grab a 4" long 1/4 ratchet and go tell us how it works out.


3/8 is only chunky if you buy cheap tools, or lower end stuff. My koken and snap on stuff is plenty slim. I have not seen a 1/4 drive torque wrench go above 25ft/lbs, the new 1/4 tech angles. I have used it for plugs when space motivates me to do so, or I don't have a 3/8 wrench at hand.
 

guitarbutt

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Sheesh some people are daft and quick to jump to "I DO IT THIS WAY SO NO ONE ELSE SHOULD DO DIFFERENTLY"

I have a 1/2" drive socket and I don't think I've used it. I would love to have a 1/4 drive socket. Not everybody lives in salt belts, has a rusted junker, or tightens everything like a neanderthal. My work truck could have benefited from a 1/4 ratchet and socket due to the tight space. A Subaru with a boxer engine would also benefit greatly. They make 1/2" drive 8mm sockets, so I don't get why it's being scoffed at by some. Having a 1/4" drive 5/8 spark plug socket would be helpful on occasion and I would definitely get one if I could find it
 

guitarbutt

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Grab a 4" long 1/4 ratchet and go tell us how it works out.


3/8 is only chunky if you buy cheap tools, or lower end stuff. My koken and snap on stuff is plenty slim. I have not seen a 1/4 drive torque wrench go above 25ft/lbs, the new 1/4 tech angles. I have used it for plugs when space motivates me to do so, or I don't have a 3/8 wrench at hand.
That's nice for you. Not every expensive ratchet is slim. My thinnest ratchet is from O'Reilly.. Does everyone here just wait to change spark plugs until they're rusted and heat welded in place? A routinely serviced vehicle can certainly have spark plugs freed with a 1/4" ratchet.


There's also times when you can break one free, then swap to the smaller size to turn it out, in the case of a Subaru boxer engine. The driver side is so close to the frame.
 

American Locomotive

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If the only thing you did is install spark plugs, and then immediately remove them, sure.

But modern engines are rated for 60-100k plug change intervals. By that time, a significant amount of carbon usually works its way up the threads, and it requires way more torque to remove the plugs. I just did plugs on a Civic Hybrid, and it took about everything I had with a ~10" 3/8" ratchet to get those plugs out.
 

ChevyEFI

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1/4" is the wrong drive for a lot of plug removal work.

I think my plug sockets are all 3/8" sq., 3/4 hex.

And I wish they were 1/2" sq. for plug fitment.
 

T45

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How many of you guys use a torque wrench to install plugs?
 

finn

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That's nice for you. Not every expensive ratchet is slim. My thinnest ratchet is from O'Reilly.. Does everyone here just wait to change spark plugs until they're rusted and heat welded in place? A routinely serviced vehicle can certainly have spark plugs freed with a 1/4" ratchet.


There's also times when you can break one free, then swap to the smaller size to turn it out, in the case of a Subaru boxer engine. The driver side is so close to the frame.
Spark plug change interval on my vehicles range from 60000 t 100000 miles.

Why would I change them before that?
 

2ndGearRubber

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That's nice for you. Not every expensive ratchet is slim. My thinnest ratchet is from O'Reilly.. Does everyone here just wait to change spark plugs until they're rusted and heat welded in place? A routinely serviced vehicle can certainly have spark plugs freed with a 1/4" ratchet.


There's also times when you can break one free, then swap to the smaller size to turn it out, in the case of a Subaru boxer engine. The driver side is so close to the frame.

"Slim" as in not an SK roundhead or the cheapest HF plastic coated units.


As I said, next time you remove a 15ft/lb torqued spark plug, or even on the light side at 12ft/lb, choke up to a 4" ratchet equivalent length.

That 4" ratchet that we normally use for 1/4 drive is usually driving 10mm headed hardware, around 5 ft/lb max. Your typical M6 ingnition coil bolt with a 10mm head will be around 7ft/lb. Yes 1/4 drive can handle more as a drive size, but not in the common length accompanied with the drive. And people still ask why I love my 10"+ 1/4 ratchets... The typical gearset of a 4" 1/4 ratchet can do the job, just not the handle length paired with my strength.

That's the deal with 3/8 for spark plugs. One needs the ratchet length, and given that a "standard" 3/8 ratchet is the smallest drive capable of dealing with removal, that's the defacto. The other concern is extensions when required. I had a 3' extension on a crowfoot last week, you can feel it wind up and twist. Imagine needing a 10" extension, 1/4 drive, to remove a spark plug. It would be wound up into a twizzler. Even on DOHC subarus, 3/8 "chunkiness" isn't an issue. Given the space requirements, 3/8 typically has plenty of room to work. The issue isn't the diameter of the tool, it's length and manipulating the tool in tight quarters. An extension and ratchet 1/2 the diameter would not drastically improve a DOHC spark plug change on a subaru. Your hands still don't fit.


How many of you guys use a torque wrench to install plugs?

Yup, 99% of the time. I am certainly capable of installing by hand with no issue. That said, I have several high quality torque wrenches available, and the additional time required to find a spec, and use it, is very low compared to the entire job. I remove them typically with an electric ratchet. That more than saves the time required to set the wrench and swap the extension/socket over. You're talking 10 seconds a plug tops? Remove ratchet, torque, swap back, next plug?
 

dchawk81

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"Slim" as in not an SK roundhead or the cheapest HF plastic coated units.


As I said, next time you remove a 15ft/lb torqued spark plug, or even on the light side at 12ft/lb, choke up to a 4" ratchet equivalent length.

That 4" ratchet that we normally use for 1/4 drive is usually driving 10mm headed hardware, around 5 ft/lb max. Your typical M6 ingnition coil bolt with a 10mm head will be around 7ft/lb. Yes 1/4 drive can handle more as a drive size, but not in the common length accompanied with the drive. And people still ask why I love my 10"+ 1/4 ratchets... The typical gearset of a 4" 1/4 ratchet can do the job, just not the handle length paired with my strength.

That's the deal with 3/8 for spark plugs. One needs the ratchet length, and given that a "standard" 3/8 ratchet is the smallest drive capable of dealing with removal, that's the defacto. The other concern is extensions when required. I had a 3' extension on a crowfoot last week, you can feel it wind up and twist. Imagine needing a 10" extension, 1/4 drive, to remove a spark plug. It would be wound up into a twizzler. Even on DOHC subarus, 3/8 "chunkiness" isn't an issue. Given the space requirements, 3/8 typically has plenty of room to work. The issue isn't the diameter of the tool, it's length and manipulating the tool in tight quarters. An extension and ratchet 1/2 the diameter would not drastically improve a DOHC spark plug change on a subaru. Your hands still don't fit.




Yup, 99% of the time. I am certainly capable of installing by hand with no issue. That said, I have several high quality torque wrenches available, and the additional time required to find a spec, and use it, is very low compared to the entire job. I remove them typically with an electric ratchet. That more than saves the time required to set the wrench and swap the extension/socket over. You're talking 10 seconds a plug tops? Remove ratchet, torque, swap back, next plug?
I mean you could always put a pipe over your 1/4" ratchet. 😂😃
 

Fedwrench

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Tough Crowd :wtf:

With all of the long and extra long 1/4 drive ratchets on the market today, why not offer a 1/4 drive spark plug socket? I'm sure there some European Engines and Subarus that could benefit from the improved access afforded with 1/4 drive.

I want NANO spark plug sockets with a 17mm external hex so, I can use my Astro 17318 XL nano socket ratchet wrench with them. :beer:
 
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merkyworks

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I feel like no one is questioning if 1/4" is sufficient for the tightening torque. To me the issue is loosening torque, spark plugs get seized up and last thing you want is snapping a 1/4" drive socket/extension down in spark plug hole. 3/8" drive just gives added buffer
 
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qqzj

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Well, nice performance. Found a robust cohort of tool haters on a tool forum!

I am wondering where you guys have been when people from Europe claiming that they completely skipped 3/8 tools and only use 1/4 and 1/2.
 

whateg01

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Well, nice performance. Found a robust cohort of tool haters on a tool forum!

I am wondering where you guys have been when people from Europe claiming that they completely skipped 3/8 tools and only use 1/4 and 1/2.
I doubt there is anybody here who actually hates 1/4" drive ratchets. It just isn't practical for this application. I love sprint cars, but I wouldn't drive one to work every day.
 

dchawk81

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Well, nice performance. Found a robust cohort of tool haters on a tool forum!

I am wondering where you guys have been when people from Europe claiming that they completely skipped 3/8 tools and only use 1/4 and 1/2.
I have somewhere around 6 quarter inch drive ratchets and you've never pulled a spark plug in your life.


200w.gif
 

whateg01

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Been there, still have the tool in my "hope I don't ever need that again" drawer.
I keep the remains of the cal vans kit in the back of my F150. last repair was done after limping to my folk's house which is where we were headed when it popped. FWIW, I really like the cal vans kit with the machined inserts vs the helicoil or the thin inserts usually found at the parts store. Especially nice that they core drill and tap are made to be driven by an air ratchet, so you can get the back plugs.
 

dchawk81

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You grow ratchet faster than you nose grow. I am sitting down to watch Pinocchio play.
Well, at least I'm not a tool hater. The notion is absurd. Just goes to show you're baiting for a heated argument.
 

dchawk81

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Hasn’t used a lot of tools for sure. What is up with tool polishers? We are proud of polishing tools
You're right there are a lot of tools I haven't used.

But I've used 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2 ratchets, and I've changed spark plugs. So as far as this particular thread goes, you're off base.
 
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qqzj

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You're right there are a lot of tools I haven't used.

But I've used 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2 ratchets, and I've changed spark plugs. So as far as this particular thread goes, you're off base.
How can a guy with 6 ratchets be sure others are off base. With a handful of ratchets, the only thing you think of is how to make it work. With 5 times of what you have, I want to find the perfect one to use. We are not on the same level, why are you in a hurry to accuse others? Hey I dont want to be banned. Last time I reply you
 

dchawk81

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How can a guy with 6 ratchets be sure others are off base. With a handful of ratchets, the only thing you think of is how to make it work. With 5 times of what you have, I want to find the perfect one to use. We are not on the same level, why are you in a hurry to accuse others? Hey I dont want to be banned. Last time I reply you
Your true colors are really coming out.
 

Pig_Pen

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Tough Crowd :wtf:

With all of the long and extra long 1/4 drive ratchets on the market today, why not offer a 1/4 drive spark plug socket? I'm sure there some European Engines and Subarus that could benefit from the improved access afforded with 1/4 drive.

I’m the opposite. With 1/4 body 3/8 ratchets like the FC72 I find myself wondering if 1/4” sockets are even necessary unless it’s smaller than 6mm or 1/4”

But back to the spark plug socket debate. Most 1/4 sets don’t come with a 5/8 much less any thing bigger like a 13/16 so why would you want to use one on something with thousands of heat cycles on it?

I refuse to believe this guy is that clueless, he’s just a troll looking for an argument to entertain himself. All of his threads are.
 
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qqzj

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I’m the opposite. With 1/4 body 3/8 ratchets like the FC72 I find myself wondering if 1/4” sockets are even necessary unless it’s smaller than 6mm or 1/4”

But back to the spark plug socket debate. Most 1/4 sets don’t come with a 5/8 much less any thing bigger like a 13/16 so why would you want to use one on something with thousands of heat cycles on it?

I refuse to believe this guy is that clueless, he’s just a troll looking for an argument to entertain himself. All of his threads are.
You know not all spark plugs are 5/8, do you? I don’t have that much time entertaining you. The plugs on a lot of modern engines are 14mm. Perfect for 1/4 tools
 
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