Why Battery Side Doesn't Matter Much on Milwaukee M18 Impacts

[CobraRed]

I'll admit, my money was on the HD12.0 high output by a mile

Video:

 

[Strouty]

Real world experience says that the 9.0 and 12.0 definitely work better on the bigger tools. I have a 3/4" drive and 1" drive impact and the smaller batteries are not as powerful.

 

[CobraRed]

I think the 3/4" uses the same motor as the 1/2" high torque, but on a 1" that would make sense as its motor is finally likely limited by the battery current capacity.

 

[rlitman]

Milwaukee has made different claims about battery size depending on the tool. When I bought their first M18 Fuel drill, they said that you'd get more torque from the double stack batteries vs the singles, and I can confirm that. When I bought their first M18 Fuel impact driver, the claimed that the torque would be the same with either, and I can confirm that too. I believe that the difference is that the bigger motors can make use of the higher currents delivered by the bigger batteries.

On a related note, I was driving a bunch of 1/4" x 3" lags the other day, and I simply assumed that the task was out of the reach of my M12, so I put on my hearing protection, and used the M18 Fuel impact driver, and it did a good job on the first batch. When my battery was running down, I reached for the M12 Surge with the tiny battery that's just an extension of the grip, and it held its own against the M18 performance until I ran that battery down. At that point, I grabbed the bigger double stack M12 battery I have and the M12 Surge absolutely kicked the *** of the M18! I couldn't believe the boost in performance.

 

[CobraRed]

Milwaukee has made different claims about battery size depending on the tool. When I bought their first M18 Fuel drill, they said that you'd get more torque from the double stack batteries vs the singles, and I can confirm that. When I bought their first M18 Fuel impact driver, the claimed that the torque would be the same with either, and I can confirm that too. I believe that the difference is that the bigger motors can make use of the higher currents delivered by the bigger batteries.

On a related note, I was driving a bunch of 1/4" x 3" lags the other day, and I simply assumed that the task was out of the reach of my M12, so I put on my hearing protection, and used the M18 Fuel impact driver, and it did a good job on the first batch. When my battery was running down, I reached for the M12 Surge with the tiny battery that's just an extension of the grip, and it held its own against the M18 performance until I ran that battery down. At that point, I grabbed the bigger double stack M12 battery I have and the M12 Surge absolutely kicked the *** of the M18! I couldn't believe the boost in performance.

Just going off what the video says, I have no idea, but a drill is direct driven from the motor. An impact driver is like an impact wrench, its power largely based on the impact mechanism, feeding the motor more current only does so much as its driving the mechanism not the anvil/driver end.

As for the Surge, that's a whole other dark magic variable i have no idea haha

 

[Benito]

Seems like the XC6.0 is still worth if if you need an extra battery either way

 

[BukitCase]

I have a few milwaukee M18's, started with their "homeowner" drill/impact kit with the lower profile batteries - when I bought the hi-torque 1/2" impact it was a bare tool, tried the low profile battery and it wouldn't even fit into the impact - by that point I also had a larger M18 drill, the bigger battery worked in the impact just fine.

My conclusion: Milwaukee did this intentionally (by changing the keying slightly), so they wouldn't get bad press when "joe homeowner" tried to use too small batteries then bitched because their serious impact was a "battery killer" - just a SWAG, based on 75 years of listening to un-informed people complain ... Steve

 

[Firebrick43]

I know on the fuel 7-1/4 Circe saw a depleted 9.0ah batt has more torque than a fresh 5.0ah batt

 

[Johnny27]

Real world experience says that the 9.0 and 12.0 definitely work better on the bigger tools. I have a 3/4" drive and 1" drive impact and the smaller batteries are not as powerful.

I know on the fuel 7-1/4 Circe saw a depleted 9.0ah batt has more torque than a fresh 5.0ah batt

If a tool can draw down the cells of a battery that fast it means the cells are total garbage. If you notice a difference between 9.0 and 12.0AH batteries it means the batteries are total garbage.

Milwaukee folk talk about the power difference with higher ampere hour batteries on the regular, and how often the batteries fail. Sounds to me like the motors Milwaukee uses to generate their power are overtaxing the battery cells with too much draw to make up for poor engineering in the tools themselves.

I can run my impacts/drills/saws down to one bar, and it's the same as if I was running it fully charged. No power difference until the battery is just about dead.

 

[darkzero]

when I bought the hi-torque 1/2" impact it was a bare tool, tried the low profile battery and it wouldn't even fit into the impact - by that point I also had a larger M18 drill, the bigger battery worked in the impact just fine.

First time I'm hearing of this. I've never had any issues with any size M18 battery fitting any of my M18 tools, even the 1st gen high-torque that I used to have. Only fitment issue I ever had was the older style belt clip with the wider 21700 packs but that's just an issue with the belt clip. They updated the belt clip for use with the HO batteries.

 

[BukitCase]

If the rain lets up a bit manana I'll double check - I think I only have two types for the M18 stuff, the 2 skinny batts that came with the compact drill/impact driver kit, and IIRC all the others are the 5 amp. The bigger batts fit fine in the compact stuff, but not the other way around (the heavy 1/2" impact is the ONLY tool that won't fit the skinny batts).

Ran into another similar one during the last power outage, but with DeWalt stuff - I have at least 8 of the original XRP nicads for all the dewalt stuff, and a couple of the newer more compact LiIons for 18 volt - tried to use the newer LiIons in one of the flourescent trouble lamps and it wouldn't go in. Odd, because those batts WILL fit/work in side grinder/recip saw/jig saw/circ saw/drills/1/2" impacts.

I'll also verify the DeWalt comments when I get time; seems wierd to me that a flashlight wouldn't take a newer battery but all the OTHER tools would... Steve

 

[M635_Guy]

I have a few milwaukee M18's, started with their "homeowner" drill/impact kit with the lower profile batteries - when I bought the hi-torque 1/2" impact it was a bare tool, tried the low profile battery and it wouldn't even fit into the impact - by that point I also had a larger M18 drill, the bigger battery worked in the impact just fine.

My conclusion: Milwaukee did this intentionally (by changing the keying slightly), so they wouldn't get bad press when "joe homeowner" tried to use too small batteries then bitched because their serious impact was a "battery killer" - just a SWAG, based on 75 years of listening to un-informed people complain ... Steve

I've read something about that, but it isn't present on the newer ones, at least the three I have. I quick trip to the garage yielded this derp-looking pic:

(2767 High Torque with 3.0 battery)
I didn't try to hit anything with it because it's for sale and it's unused (hence why it's for sale - anyway...)

It seems like I heard someone say the "lock out" was because the older batteries that small weren't HO and weren't suitable for the (startup?) power draw a bigger impact would require. But whatever - the limitation isn't there for the newer M18's (or at least the M18 Gen 1 and Gen 2 Fuel Mid Torque and the M18 High Torque)

 

[BukitCase]

That sounds about right; my hi-torque does NOT say "fuel" on it, and with other tools (like driving a few hundred self-drilling metal screws into 1/8" steel) I've noticed a HUGE difference in battery life between the "skinny" batts and the "fat" batts.

My assumption at the time (didn't follow up on it, rare for me) was that the blockage was probably built into the tool, not the battery.

No big deal once you're AWARE of it (like a lot of life's "problems") ... Steve

 

[darkzero]

Ok, now I'm confused. Which impact wrench/gun are we talking about that has the lock out? I had the 2763 high-torque which I thought was the first generation HT, mine did say Fuel on it. Is there an older non-Fuel impact that was called the high torque also?

Come to think of it, I don't think I've actually tried a CP2.5 battery with it, just the XC5.0. I gave the high-torque to my brother so I can't try a CP2.5 in it & he only owns 1 M18 battery.

I just took a look at my CP2.5 & I can't see anything different than my bigger batteries that would lock it out from a tool. I tried it on some of my M18 tools that are power hungry & it fit fine, grinder, blower, shop vac, gen2 MT, Fuel hackzall.

Or is it the CP1.5 or CP2.0 that has this lockout? I don't own any of those.

Just got my curious is all.

 

[Firebrick43]

If a tool can draw down the cells of a battery that fast it means the cells are total garbage. If you notice a difference between 9.0 and 12.0AH batteries it means the batteries are total garbage.

Milwaukee folk talk about the power difference with higher ampere hour batteries on the regular, and how often the batteries fail. Sounds to me like the motors Milwaukee uses to generate their power are overtaxing the battery cells with too much draw to make up for poor engineering in the tools themselves.

I can run my impacts/drills/saws down to one bar, and it's the same as if I was running it fully charged. No power difference until the battery is just about dead.

I don't think you understand batteries and the difference between Amp hours and draw rates.

A 7 1/4 fuel saw is comparable power wise to a plug in saw. I hated battery saws until I used, and then bought this one and it replaced my skill 77. It will cut three stacked 5/8 sheets of osb at time for around 3 hours. I noticed the difference in the 9 vs 5 when plunge cutting stair stringers, not exactly a low load procedure.

The Milwaukee batts are not garbage. But 9 ah batts have 5 extra cells, and extra wire for the extra high current capacity than a 5 ah batt. On every thing else, the high ah batts make no difference in charged/one bar. They are not drawing enough amps to make a diff.

 

[M635_Guy]

If a tool can draw down the cells of a battery that fast it means the cells are total garbage. If you notice a difference between 9.0 and 12.0AH batteries it means the batteries are total garbage.

Milwaukee folk talk about the power difference with higher ampere hour batteries on the regular, and how often the batteries fail. Sounds to me like the motors Milwaukee uses to generate their power are overtaxing the battery cells with too much draw to make up for poor engineering in the tools themselves.

I can run my impacts/drills/saws down to one bar, and it's the same as if I was running it fully charged. No power difference until the battery is just about dead.

You're running around saying things quite forcefully when it's clear you have no idea what you're talking about.

I'm going to screw it up if I try to explain it, but these two articles should give you an idea:
https://www.protoolreviews.com/milwaukee-m18-batteries-compared/

https://toolguyd.com/milwaukee-m18-cordless-power-tool-battery-sizes-explained/

 

[BukitCase]

darkzero, sorry for the confusion; I started to re-check everything, got interrupted by a neighbor getting some firewood, didn't want him getting stuck in my yard; the model impact that didn't seem to like the small batteries is a 2662-20 - some of my full-size (maybe) batteries are red lithium, have a few more Wa than the older lithium's - both types of that size are rated about TWICE what the compact batts have.

Pretty sure I have NONE of the biggest batteries, don't really need 'em since these charge so quick and I have several.

After I get some lunch I'll finish checking things out and post all #'s ... Steve

 

[darkzero]

Ah I see. Just looked that one up, it's a brushed model & it is called a High-Torque. I never knew. The HT that I had is a 1st gen but for the brushless Fuel. Thanks for killing my curiosity. I learned something new today.

I am still curious about what the lockout feature looks like but that's ok, it'll probably never affect me anyway.

 

[teal95]

The first 2 M18 batteries I got with my impact driver won't work in my 1st gen 1/2" impact. I have another pair of batteries that are identical, except for the keyway and they work fine.

 

[BukitCase]

Yup, could be a combination of tool or battery age, and mfg not wanting bad press; anyway, here's mine - first pic is tool side with 1/2" hi torque impact on left, second pic is battery side with compact on left then one "red" and one "regular/earlier" on far right.

May need to zoom in to see, but both tools AND batts have different keying for compact. HTH... Steve

BTW, my compact drill/driver set is several years old, came in a hard case - newer ones are now in a soft case. Both original compact batts still doing fine after at least 10 years :=)

 

[darkzero]

Thank you for those pics, Steve.

 

[BukitCase]

NO prob; might get at the DeWalt question (why the lithium 18 works in actual TOOLS but won't fit the trouble light) - always SOMETHING, sometimes a curious mind is a PITA teve

 

[darkzero]

What size battery is that one with 2 keyways? I assumed CP1.5 since my CP2.0 doesn't have it. I tried looking for pics of the 1.5 but didn't see any with the double keyway. Maybe it is an age thing as you mentioned?

EDIT: I mentioned that I had a CP2.5 before. I'm an idiot, it's a CP2.0. I don't think there is a CP2.5, not sure why I thought that.

 

[BukitCase]

That's one of the two that came with my original hard-cased drill/impact kit; I also bought a second kit for my son about a year later, his came in a bag. I must've got my first kit thru CPO, Amazon only shows the second - That one was purchased in 2009, so my original kit would've been 2008. Current listing shows 1.5 batteries, soon as I finish a late lunch I'll check #'s on those (shop's about 100 feet from the house)

I'm pretty sure amazon's current listing isn't the same batteries as I and my son got, I bought other 5.0 batteries later than that and they were NOT the "red" versions. That's about all I see now, and a few of mine are red lithium (probably put out red electrons :=)

Anyway, back in a few... Steve

 

[BukitCase]

Yup, just checked - original batteries for the compact kit I have are pre-"red", 1.5 ah - I don't have a LOT of milwaukee, just 2 of the 1/4" hex drivers, the compact drill/driver from the kit, the "heavy half" impact and a full-size M18 drill/driver.

Most of the Milwaukee stuff stays in the wood shop, 'cause DeWalt didn't know how to make a decent clutch - all their choices are either heavy, REALLY heavy and "holy ****", aka locked up - both the compact and full size milwaukee drills could almost drive a #4 screw in balsa wood without stripping, and each click actually MEANS something.

Bought the DeWalt stuff prior to retirement (rare metals plant maintenance - last 10 years lead man of a 11 man rotating maintenance crew, pair each of millwrights, pipe fitters, welders, electricians, machinists and me (instrumentation) -

at that time, DeWalt got the nod 'cause it held up in serious conditions better than any other. All the DeWalt I bought back then is still going strong, even tho DeWalt tried to screw everybody with their 18 vs. 20 volt lies (figures don't lie, but a liar can figure) -

Drifting off a bit, sorry... Steve

 

[Spacey_G]

Most of the Milwaukee stuff stays in the wood shop, 'cause DeWalt didn't know how to make a decent clutch - all their choices are either heavy, REALLY heavy and "holy ****", aka locked up - both the compact and full size milwaukee drills could almost drive a #4 screw in balsa wood without stripping, and each click actually MEANS something.

An exception to this is the 12V screwdriver. That has a clutch that's really light on the lowest setting and adjusts well. All my drills just stay on 'drill' mode.