Why buy non impact sockets?

[Mechanical Noise]

FYI -

Impact is also **** for torque instruments because of the flex (not to mention play) messes with the correlation of torque measured by the handle and force put on the bolt. You don't want that kind of energy storage and dissipation between the measurement tool and the target bolt. The reason is that the torque tool is itself a spring, so adding more springs to the mix is generally a bad idea and not in the engineering.

Messing around with demolition jobs or rusty bolts of course you can use a pipe wrench and a hammer and it won't matter either. Just horse for courses.

There's not much difference in the Young's modulus of various steels. As far as sockets go, the overwhelming factor in determining stiffness is thickness. Thicker impact sockets are stiffer.

Stiff or not, in a static situation like using a torque wrench, the torque at one end of a socket or bar is the same as the torque at the other.

Stiffness does make a difference in the "feel". Tightening a bolt with a torque wrench through a long, springy extension bar does give an ambiguous feel. Stiffer feels better and probably reduces operator error.

 

[deberly12]

There is truth on what both people are saying... Let's get technical

In theory your statics equation works. This would be the case if friction didn't exist. The torque would be generated simply by the clamping force of the bolt.

But friction does exist which turns this whole question dynamic. Because the torque is actually caused by the friction between the nut/bolt head and various surfaces. Because of the difference between static and kinetic friction the bold does not move smoothy on its last few degrees of turning it moves in microscopic jerks. As this happens it builds up spring force to overcome the static friction then the the bolt moves under less torque because kinetic is less but as soon as it moves the clamping force increases, which raises the friction to higher than the original static friction and the bolt stops until even more spring force is built up. Because of the bouncing having different spring coefficients will change the torque value.

Result: There will be some (very small) difference between torques.

But let's come out of the engineering class and back to the shop. I don't there is any torque wrench or torque spec in existence that is precise enough that this small difference could actually be noticed.

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[Spacey_G]

But let's come out of the engineering class and back to the shop. I don't there is any torque wrench or torque spec in existence that is precise enough that this small difference could actually be noticed.

Not to mention fastener torque is only an approximation of the value that really matters - preload. Not sure what other sources say, but Norton's Machine Design says a torque wrench will give up to +/-30% error in fastener preload. Maybe half that with lubed threads and great care. Yikes.

Very insightful post, thanks.

 

[dwasifar]

^ this here. I have split impact sockets with a cheater bar. I knew better but just had to see proof

Well, according to some of these posts, it's a myth, you didn't do it, and you're poorly educated if you think you did.

Actually I called Snap-on and asked, and they also said it's a myth. But you and a couple others have empirical evidence to the contrary. So now I don't know what to think.

 

[jonesg]

Don't deform hahahahaha

I have some snap on impacts where the dive ends are so beat and twisted
That they won't fit on a gun and this is not from misused just normal heavy use.

Its that why I had to torch the lugnuts on my car to get them off.,
Someone running 700psi is ruining my lugstuds and their sockets at the same time. Can't we all juz git along.

 

[Finky198]

Lol. Nope I only use the gun in reverse....

When you wanna screw with lug nuts
apply a little JB weld in there for added measure.
before you torque em too 500+...

 

[bubinga]

My understanding is that impact sockets are designed for brief, repetitive force, not sustained pressure, and can break when used as hand tools.

Wow, Didn't know that.
So if I want to break say a wheel loose, I'd be better off (for the tool) to use a Chrome one? (If I have the size at least)

 

[dwasifar]

Wow, Didn't know that.
So if I want to break say a wheel loose, I'd be better off (for the tool) to use a Chrome one? (If I have the size at least)

Read the whole thread. Apparently this point is in dispute.

 

[bubinga]

Read the whole thread. Apparently this point is in dispute.

OK, Yeah, you're right, I did not read the whole thread yet.

 

[JohnDeere1]

Because they are thinner and who don't like the blinging chrome? I would not want to have nothing but impact sockets life's too short to skimp out.

 

[Jazz1]

Well, according to some of these posts, it's a myth, you didn't do it, and you're poorly educated if you think you did.

Actually I called Snap-on and asked, and they also said it's a myth. But you and a couple others have empirical evidence to the contrary. So now I don't know what to think.

I have split my 3/4" and my 11/16" with breaker bar but i am not trying to sell tools.

 

[FlushingDIYer]

On an entirely unrelated and yet related note, why can't Sears get their 1/2" Metric Impact socket set (short) under $30? I know there are other $30 (and under) options out there, but I like the case they comes in. And who knows, maybe 20 yrs from now they'll be highly sought after items!

 

[Bighead38]

Chrome hand sockets and impact sockets have many differences that go beyond just appearance, according to Snap-on Tools, and each is designed and manufactured for specific applications.

For instance, a technician should never use a chrome hand socket on an impact gun – only use impact sockets. The impact socket has thick walls and is finished in a black phosphate or black oxide finish. Impact sockets also have a cross hole in the handle end for use with a retaining pin and ring or locking pin anvil to allow the socket to be securely attached to the square drive of an impact gun.

Power sockets, designed for use with power nut runners, multi-spindle machines and angle head nut drivers, may cause some confusion since they are offered in a black finish. But, Snap-on notes, they are stamped “WARNING: NON-IMPACT.” Power sockets are heat treated to a higher hardness than either impact or hand sockets. According to Snap-on, this high hardness, combined with thick socket walls, produces a strong, wear-resistant socket. This socket is suited for assembly-line work where it is not subjected to high-impact loads.

Hand sockets have a thin wall which allows for clearance in general applications where hand torquing is used. Hand sockets, except for those intended for industrial use, are chrome plated. Although hand sockets and power sockets can fit the impact wrench, they are not the same and must not be used on impact tools, Snap-on warns.

One difference you can’t see between these two types of sockets has to do with the way each has been heat treated and/or the composition of the metal used.

The impact socket made out of medium carbon alloy steel is heat treated to a low hardness range which has been optimized for impact use. This means that under heavy, continuous use, an impact socket will withstand the impact blows and will wear rather than break.

Hand sockets are made of medium carbon alloy steel that is heat treated to a hardness range commensurate with their size and configuration. Hand sockets are heat treated to a comparatively higher hardness for high strength and more wear resistance than impact sockets. But, they are made to sustain hand applied torque applications only.

Using only impact sockets on impact wrenches reduces the risk of injury, delays and damaged work. It’s relatively easy to spot a hand socket that’s been misused on an impact wrench, Snap-on says. Check the square drive end for signs of damage and distortion. Cracks and other damage often will appear around the wrench end as well.

Improperly using hand sockets on impact tools may be hazardous as they may crack. By knowing the difference between the various types of sockets and using them appropriately, you will be able to ensure a safer and more efficient work environment.

https://m.facebook.com/notes/snap-o...erence-impact-vs-chrome-sockets/251237528642/

Straight from snap on. Notice they say don't use chrome on an impact gun. They don't say that a impact will break by hand. If that was true don't you think snapon lawyers would cover themselves?

 

[Tallpilot]

Why does this keep coming up?? If you can only afford one set of sockets but have both hand tools and impacts get the impact to start. Eventually, you will want chrome just like you will eventually want a whole bunch of other stuff. If you are only using them occasionally they will last a long time. If you are using them constantly they will eventually wear out just like everything does.

The biggest thing with sockets is you won't know what you need until you need it so having a tool box full of them provides more possibilities to fit where you need them to fit. All of the different drive sizes, lengths, materials and styles are partly designed to make tool companies money but they also have real world applications.

In closing, you are in the wrong place if you think you need just one set of anything. In the tactical/survivalist community the aphorism "two is one and one is none" is common. Here on GJ you start with 3 of everything then when you achive that you get another tool box and start again.

 

[Tallpilot]

Why does this keep coming up?? If you can only afford one set of sockets but have both hand tools and impacts get the impact to start. Eventually, you will want chrome just like you will eventually want a whole bunch of other stuff. If you are only using them occasionally they will last a long time. If you are using them constantly they will eventually wear out just like everything does.

The biggest thing with sockets is you won't know what you need until you need it so having a tool box full of them provides more possibilities to fit where you need them to fit. All of the different drive sizes, lengths, materials and styles are partly designed to make tool companies money but they also have real world applications.

In closing, you are in the wrong place if you think you need just one set of anything. In the tactical/survivalist community the aphorism "two is one and one is none" is common. Here on GJ you start with 3 of everything then when you achive that you get another tool box and start again.

 

[gdocktor3]

This thread literally requires one response... why is it 4 pages long?

That's absolutely hilarious. I just saw this was 5 pages long and thought to myself "what the hell are these guys still talking about this for?"

 

[Cato]

Engineering material properties.

Cr-mo (impact)
4140 steel
Yield strength: 95,000 psi
Elongation 17.7%

CR-V (chrome)
8650 steel
Yield strength: 99,750 psi
Elongation 14%

Strength is higher in chrome sockets but they are less elastic (more brittle) Chrome sockets will handle a higher constant force but will crack under high impact duty. Impacts are more elastic so will absorb and flex instead of cracking. But because the steel is softer (lower yeild strength) they will deform over time especially under constant force.

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Dude, that's the first piece of objective data I've seen here in a LONG time.

Thank You.