Why does nobody make a pinion seal driver?

[signcrafter]

Yes you can improvise with big sockets or other items to get the job done but I like to have the right tools and a tool made for that would be nicer to use then a socket. There are sources for OEM tools for specific axles but they are really expensive unless you are replacing a bunch of seals on the same axle. Lisle used to make one from my googling but discontinued it for some reason, https://www.lislecorp.com/specialty-tools/pinion-shaft-seal-installer-magnetic. Looks like it was sold for just under 100 bucks which I would have gladly paid but I didn't even know they existed. There are other kits out there that are really nice and have a hollow tube driver and a selection of different sized ends and would be great to have and be more useful then just used for pinion seals, they are way up there in price also.

I don't know anything about 3d printing but I know some of the OE seals drivers are made from a plastic type material so not sure if that would be something to consider or not? But pinion seals are a relatively common thing to leak so it surprises me that nobody makes a tool to work on the popular axles like that lisle one.

Anyone make something a little nicer then a big socket to drive pinion seals on? Thinking I might try to make something up that will be nicer to use then a socket. Or maybe I need to buy a 3D printer and learn about different types of plastic and make my own.

 

[badmatt]

I just use a piece of PVC that’s the same diameter or I turn down a piece of tubing and weld a flat plate to the back.

Or if the surface is flat with no shaft present… a 1x4..

It works.

 

[Steve_P]

The issue is that there are probably 50 sizes used in the last 50 years, hence it being a specialty tool. Does anyone make an aftermarket crankshaft seal installation tool for a 1974 Jeep 304, 455 Buick....wheel bearing seal installation tool for a 1992 Mitsubishi Eclipse AWD....?

 

[leadfoot415]

Yes you can improvise with big sockets or other items to get the job done but I like to have the right tools and a tool made for that would be nicer to use then a socket. There are sources for OEM tools for specific axles but they are really expensive unless you are replacing a bunch of seals on the same axle. Lisle used to make one from my googling but discontinued it for some reason, https://www.lislecorp.com/specialty-tools/pinion-shaft-seal-installer-magnetic. Looks like it was sold for just under 100 bucks which I would have gladly paid but I didn't even know they existed. There are other kits out there that are really nice and have a hollow tube driver and a selection of different sized ends and would be great to have and be more useful then just used for pinion seals, they are way up there in price also.

I don't know anything about 3d printing but I know some of the OE seals drivers are made from a plastic type material so not sure if that would be something to consider or not? But pinion seals are a relatively common thing to leak so it surprises me that nobody makes a tool to work on the popular axles like that lisle one.

Anyone make something a little nicer then a big socket to drive pinion seals on? Thinking I might try to make something up that will be nicer to use then a socket. Or maybe I need to buy a 3D printer and learn about different types of plastic and make my own.

A guy on the private ford technicians forum facebook group has made a replica of the Lisle pinion seal tool, but he does not have a public sale page and IDK if he would take an order from anyone outside the group. I can ask if you'd like. I own one of his tools and it is A1 quality and use; the price is rather high and you'd probably be stuck paying stupid tariffs since I believe he is in Canada.

 

[finn]

I did a search for a pinion seal driver for an 8.8 inch Ford third member and instantly came up with at least a dozen hits. Most were priced between $24 and $60.

I don’t call that expensive at all. One job would likely cover that.

There’s a reason Oem service tools are expensive new. That’s because there’s a limited market, so not a whole lot can be sold to cover the investment. Aftermarket tool suppliers face the same situation unless they can come up with a universal tool.

In reality, many mechanics might come up with a makeshift tool than pay for something used once in a blue moon. The dealership, where they have a higher volume of the same models is probably going to buy the factory designed tool. Those dealership tools eventually make it to the secondary market one way or another.

 

[signcrafter]

The issue is that there are probably 50 sizes used in the last 50 years, hence it being a specialty tool. Does anyone make an aftermarket crankshaft seal installation tool for a 1974 Jeep 304, 455 Buick....wheel bearing seal installation tool for a 1992 Mitsubishi Eclipse AWD....?

I get that and not sure how well the lisle one worked or how many vehicles it could do but seems like a company could make a tube with a few different ends for not a ton of money that would do a good majority of pinion seals.

A guy on the private ford technicians forum facebook group has made a replica of the Lisle pinion seal tool, but he does not have a public sale page and IDK if he would take an order from anyone outside the group. I can ask if you'd like. I own one of his tools and it is A1 quality and use; the price is rather high and you'd probably be stuck paying stupid tariffs since I believe he is in Canada.

That thing looks really nice. Haven't decided what I want to do yet. Debating just biting the bullet and getting the ez-driver kit that zmotorsports has posted, https://atsgbookstore.com/ez-driver...ydhoBZPWyUfM4ABPaf22Ewadocwi5qujvy5a5vjc1FH.n Kids don't really need presents this year.

I did a search for a pinion seal driver for an 8.8 inch Ford third member and instantly came up with at least a dozen hits. Most were priced between $24 and $60.

I don’t call that expensive at all. One job would likely cover that.

There’s a reason Oem service tools are expensive new. That’s because there’s a limited market, so not a whole lot can be sold to cover the investment. Aftermarket tool suppliers face the same situation unless they can come up with a universal tool.

In reality, many mechanics might come up with a makeshift tool than pay for something used once in a blue moon. The dealership, where they have a higher volume of the same models is probably going to buy the factory designed tool. Those dealership tools eventually make it to the secondary market one way or another.

I have a sterling 10.5 to do and didn't find much for that one when searching. There is one I found when I did a search for 8.8 like you mentioned and when I went to freedom racing to search application it listed the dana 60 and 80 and 8.8 and even the sterling 10.5 up till 2010 I believe it was. I don't know for sure but wouldn't think a 2010 10.5 seal would be too much different then a 2015 10.5 but I could be wrong. Think from looking at service info ford went from a 1 piece cone type driver to a 2 piece plate and tube type driver but not sure if the seal sizes changed.

I get that new specialty tools are a limited market and expensive. I have some I've bought new and a bunch I've bought used over the years. I've improvised and got things done without specialty tools in the past but if it's something I might do more than once over the years I try to get the tools to either make it easier or have a better chance of not messing anything up. I realize a pinion seal isn't anything tricky or difficult but I've done a handful of them over the years and thought I would pick up a tool to use on them if I could find one.

No clue if the lisle wasn't good or why they stopped selling it but to me a company like lisle or astro or one of the many chinese copy cats on amazon could come out with a tube driver and a handful of adapters that would handle the popular rear ends. They have come out with all sorts of specialty tools geared towards diy, like timing sets, installers and other things. I bought a huge heavy metal seal driver for the front axle seal in superdutys for something like 40-50 bucks. There's all sorts of aftermarket specialty tools for diy prices on amazon, some probably better quality then others but the ones I have bought have worked good. I have probably half a dozen engine specific timing tool sets that were pretty inexpensive and have worked good. Guess I would have figured a pinion seal is a semi fairly common repair and some company would have come out with a installer set of some kind by now.

 

[joe_padavano]

You didn't specify which rear end this is, but for GM cars the Kent Moore tools are all over ebay. And frankly, I've used the PCV pipe driver with zero issues.

 

[lbhsbz]

I just use a hammer. All the pinion seals I've seen have plenty of room around them and the seal sits flush with the casting....no need for a driver in that case

 

[finn]

I just use a hammer. All the pinion seals I've seen have plenty of room around them and the seal sits flush with the casting....no need for a driver in that case

I bet the fact that you’re not alone using a hammer further limits the potential market for an aftermarket seal driver for nitche applications

 

[noid]

Ultra easy to 3D print in whatever flavor you need.

 

[signcrafter]

Ultra easy to 3D print in whatever flavor you need.

Maybe I need to look into getting one of these things. I've bought some m12 and m18 battery and tool holders and would love to have a bunch more. If I knew more about CAD or whatever you use to design the parts it would be easy to make up a whole bunch of interchangeable adapters to go onto a pipe and be able to use them for a variety of things.

 

[cgrutt]

Is this what you're looking for?

QT1533 Rear Axle Pinion Seal Installer for Ford Sterling 10-1/4", 10-1/2"

QT1533 rear axle pinion seal installer for 1985-2010 Ford Sterling 10.25" and 10.5" axles. Pilot centers the tool to prevent garter spring pop-off.

torqueking.com

 

[signcrafter]

Is this what you're looking for?

QT1533 Rear Axle Pinion Seal Installer for Ford Sterling 10-1/4", 10-1/2"

QT1533 rear axle pinion seal installer for 1985-2010 Ford Sterling 10.25" and 10.5" axles. Pilot centers the tool to prevent garter spring pop-off.

torqueking.com

That says it only goes up to 2010, I'm guessing the pinion sticks out further maybe because one of the comments on there says it doesn't work on superdutys. But I'm guessing it does work on superdutys up to 2010 and then something changed to make it not work on the 2011 and up 6.7s with the sterling 10.5 rear end. The OTC rotunda numbers are 205-935(https://www.freedomracing.com/pinio...Lvynb193uQO_sVGJDLcz-fSnBhxMXDrUwg-myePp9DQFT) and 205-440(https://www.freedomracing.com/205-1018-installation-tube.html) is the tube/driver for the 935 adapter. The adapter shows on ebay for 65-100 dollars and then need the driver tube.

I can get the seal on, but I was curious why none of the tool companies have come out with a seal driver kit for things like pinion seals that require a tube driver to be able to go over the shaft. There's all kinds of tool companies that are making specialty tools like this in china and selling them cheap. Was curious why I don't see something like this. Yes, you can get the job done without any specialty tools like others mentioned above. But here is one example of a seal driver on amazon, https://www.amazon.com/OrionMotorTe...Installer/dp/B08JL93XFK/?tag=atomicindus08-20. I own a similar kit and it has been great for seals and for using the adapters in the press. You can easily accomplish the same thing with sockets and an extension but the kit is nicer to use. Just like you can drive a pinion seal with a big socket but a tube driver with a handful of adapters would be nicer to use in my opinion.

 

[finn]

Ultra easy to 3D print in whatever flavor you need.

Buying a 3d printer and learning to use it is going to cost far more than buying a brand new factory Oem tool.

 

[rust in the eye]

You answered your own question with the first sentence of your post.
Few are wanting to drop $100+ when a piece of pipe, etc. works just fine.
How often are you doing this?

 

[signcrafter]

Buying a 3d printer and learning to use it is going to cost far more than buying a brand new factory Oem tool.

Just like tools to do most bigger jobs cost more then taking it to a shop but we still buy the tools and get the job done and then have the tools to use. Many people on GJ have a lathe which makes no sense to get to do one project, but once you have it you find other things to use it to make. I wouldn't even consider buying a 3d printer just for one tool but it's like 1200 dollar scan tool. Makes no sense to buy it for one job. But it pays for itself over time with other projects. I've wanted more m12 and m18 battery and tool holders but they are expensive to order a bunch that someone else 3d printed. Also toolbox organizers of all sorts and sizes.

 

[noid]

Buying a 3d printer and learning to use it is going to cost far more than buying a brand new factory Oem tool.

If he can napkin sketch it, someone on Fiverr can send him the CAD file, then outsource the 3D printing to any million of places offering the service. Should be under $50 all said and done.

But, we are in a Tool subforum, shouldn't we endorse buying more tools to expand capabilities instead of relying on others?

 

[zmotorsports]

Scott, I know it's on the spendy side, but I think you've seen my driver set from Arizona Speed & Machine that I use quite frequently. The hollow drivers along with the assortment of attachments sure make driving seals as well as most bearings a no-brainer. I have not run across a pinion seal yet that I haven't been able to come up with a combination that works perfectly by fitting over the pinion shaft.

I also use it a lot for general pressing at the hydraulic press, much more than my previous shop made adapters as I can easily select the exact combination for whatever I am pressing. I find myself using it much more than I initially thought I would when I purchased it in fact.

 

[signcrafter]

You answered your own question with the first sentence of your post.
Few are wanting to drop $100+ when a piece of pipe, etc. works just fine.
How often are you doing this?

I guess you're right and I'm the minority. For years I used what I could to get by and now that I'm in a better spot I try to get whatever tools to do the job easier or better and not struggle at all. I don't mind buying tools made for the jobs. I've found that while things can be done with makeshift stuff, and I did it that way for years when money went to other things, things tend to go smoother and easier with the tools meant to do the job. And less chance of anything going wrong. Yes a pinion seal isn't difficult with other means but a nice tube with driving cap and a handful of adapters to handle the main axles pinion seals for around 100 bucks and I wouldn't even think twice about pulling the trigger. I don't do these all the time but have done a handful of them over the years.

Like I posted above they are selling bushing/seal driver kits in my link above for 60 or so bucks. You can use sockets to do everything this set can but this set is so much nicer to use and way less caveman. I bought one and love it, it replaces all the specialty seal drivers except when there is a shaft sticking out. So my question was about why they can't make a kit like that for use when shafts are sticking out in the way. It's a tube and a few adapters. I just figured one of the cheaper amazon importers or one of the other tools companies like lisle or astro or someone would have put out a set.

 

[rust in the eye]

Somebody must have the Lisle tool you wanted. I can't see any reason used one wouldn't be fine.
<<<< Caveman?

 

[signcrafter]

Scott, I know it's on the spendy side, but I think you've seen my driver set from Arizona Speed & Machine that I use quite frequently. The hollow drivers along with the assortment of attachments sure make driving seals as well as most bearings a no-brainer. I have not run across a pinion seal yet that I haven't been able to come up with a combination that works perfectly by fitting over the pinion shaft.

I also use it a lot for general pressing at the hydraulic press, much more than my previous shop made adapters as I can easily select the exact combination for whatever I am pressing. I find myself using it much more than I initially thought I would when I purchased it in fact.

Mike, I've seen it and drooled over it for a long time. LOL

I mentioned it in one of my posts in this thread. Guess I'm in the minority here for wanting a seal driver instead of banging in a 3" seal with a hammer. Yes it can be done but I'd rather have a seal driver to evenly push it in. I'm thinking about pulling the trigger on that set you have. I see skf also makes a seal driver set that looks very nice and about the same price of the Arizona set but it's plastic so just for driving seals. The Arizona set is metal and can be used in a press like you mentioned and have shown.

These guys saying no reason to spend 100 bucks for a seal driver. Maybe I shouldn't post about thinking of buying a 700 dollar set.

 

[zmotorsports]

Mike, I've seen it and drooled over it for a long time. LOL

I mentioned it in one of my posts in this thread. Guess I'm in the minority here for wanting a seal driver instead of banging in a 3" seal with a hammer. Yes it can be done but I'd rather have a seal driver to evenly push it in. I'm thinking about pulling the trigger on that set you have. I see skf also makes a seal driver set that looks very nice and about the same price of the Arizona set but it's plastic so just for driving seals. The Arizona set is metal and can be used in a press like you mentioned and have shown.

These guys saying no reason to spend 100 bucks for a seal driver. Maybe I shouldn't post about thinking of buying a 700 dollar set.

I just read your post about being in the minority Scott, and I guess I am in good company, cuz I'm right there with ya. When I first started out in the industry I got by with a lot of "make shift" setups for various tasks. Yes, the job was completed and in a professional manner, however, a lot of being a professional in my opinion is not only the end result, it is also the process involved and how a person feels while performing the task. For that mindset alone I think a lot of my tool purchases were driven by the mindset that if I wanted to truly be a professional, I needed to position myself to use professional tools AND methods.

I waffled quite a bit on the layout of funds for the ASM set, but seeing as how much I use it to this day, I would buy it again in a heartbeat. My only regret is that I didn't buy it sooner because I would have had many more years of using it under my belt.

 

[noid]

Just like tools to do most bigger jobs cost more then taking it to a shop but we still buy the tools and get the job done and then have the tools to use. Many people on GJ have a lathe which makes no sense to get to do one project, but once you have it you find other things to use it to make. I wouldn't even consider buying a 3d printer just for one tool but it's like 1200 dollar scan tool. Makes no sense to buy it for one job. But it pays for itself over time with other projects. I've wanted more m12 and m18 battery and tool holders but they are expensive to order a bunch that someone else 3d printed. Also toolbox organizers of all sorts and sizes.

The good news is that 3D printers have gotten much cheaper and simpler to use in the last couple years.

When I first got into 3D printing it was 80% tinkering with the printer and 20% actual useful printing. Now its more 95% printing and 5% tinkering.

You can get a very good printer for sub $500 these days.

 

[cgrutt]

Personally I'm all for buying the right tool for the job at some point though does it really make sense to buy a commercial shop kit with many adapters for a single project? IDK but usually justify it to myself by looking at the cost savings by doing it myself. I've justified many purchases that way and have accumulated a pretty good collection of tools over the years. Only you can decide if it makes sense to spend that $700 when a single adapter can probably be sourced or shop made (aka caveman style) for much less. It would be a coin flip in this case for me personally. On the one hand I could definitely see the benefit of having such a nice set on hand for potential need in the future. On the other I could probably find something else to spend the money on that may provide more future benefit (not necessarily related to this particular project). Only live once be happy.

 

[Buckgnarly]

I just read your post about being in the minority Scott, and I guess I am in good company, cuz I'm right there with ya. When I first started out in the industry I got by with a lot of "make shift" setups for various tasks. Yes, the job was completed and in a professional manner, however, a lot of being a professional in my opinion is not only the end result, it is also the process involved and how a person feels while performing the task. For that mindset alone I think a lot of my tool purchases were driven by the mindset that if I wanted to truly be a professional, I needed to position myself to use professional tools AND methods.

I waffled quite a bit on the layout of funds for the ASM set, but seeing as how much I use it to this day, I would buy it again in a heartbeat. My only regret is that I didn't buy it sooner because I would have had many more years of using it under my belt.

What's the link for that tool again?.....I also always think about it and it may be time........

 

[zmotorsports]

What's the link for that tool again?.....I also always think about it and it may be time........

Here is a link via ATSG (Automative Transmission Service Group). And I was wrong with the company's name, it is actually Arizona Transmission & Machine (ATM), not Speed & Machine. Sorry about that.

EZ-Driver Universal Multi-Purpose Driver / Installer Set by Arizona Transmission Machine

ATSG transmission rebuild manuals, downloads, discs, tools, parts, and more direct from the source!

atsgbookstore.com

I purchased mine directly through ATM however, but that was about 8 years ago so not sure if they sell direct any longer or not. I know when I spoke to the owner back when I purchased mine, they had sold the rights to Mayhew to produce and market the kit, however, they lessened the quality and changed some things so it voided the contract and Arizona Transmission and Machine took the rights back and resumed making them in-house.

I also know that there are a couple of knock-off import sets available that are "supposed" to resemble the ATM kit, but they are very inferior in quality as well as range of items they will work on. It is an expensive kit, but it is also very versatile, and I find myself using it on so many more things that just transmissions or rear ends.

 

[Buckgnarly]

Here is a link via ATSG (Automative Transmission Service Group). And I was wrong with the company's name, it is actually Arizona Transmission & Machine (ATM), not Speed & Machine. Sorry about that.

EZ-Driver Universal Multi-Purpose Driver / Installer Set by Arizona Transmission Machine

ATSG transmission rebuild manuals, downloads, discs, tools, parts, and more direct from the source!

atsgbookstore.com

I purchased mine directly through ATM however, but that was about 8 years ago so not sure if they sell direct any longer or not. I know when I spoke to the owner back when I purchased mine, they had sold the rights to Mayhew to produce and market the kit, however, they lessened the quality and changed some things so it voided the contract and Arizona Transmission and Machine took the rights back and resumed making them in-house.

I also know that there are a couple of knock-off import sets available that are "supposed" to resemble the ATM kit, but they are very inferior in quality as well as range of items they will work on. It is an expensive kit, but it is also very versatile, and I find myself using it on so many more things that just transmissions or rear ends.

Thanks, once some bills are paid I think it's time. I love to McGyver stuff but hate doing **** half assed! Also afraid I'll miss out if the become NLA.

 

[zimman]

At the auto parts store, get seal and walk down isle 5 to the exhaust section and get a 2.75" x 2.75" exhaust connector (or whatever dia the seal is) and get after it.
End Thread/
Zim
For reference.

 

[Jeepster04]

Ive had good luck buying the OEM (Miller) seal driver on ebay for my Jeeps. Ended up with 2 that have worked on every pinion seal that I've needed to replace.

 

[lbhsbz]

At the auto parts store, get seal and walk down isle 5 to the exhaust section and get a 2.75" x 2.75" exhaust connector (or whatever dia the seal is) and get after it.
End Thread/
Zim
For reference.

That's a perfect example of when to simply use a hammer. It's a flush mount seal with a flange. You have a considerably greater chance of damaging the seal using your piece of pipe.