To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Why does Snap-On continuously make people rage?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Meursault74

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 1, 2019
Messages
21,893
Location
Southern California
Funny guys you Americans.. Buy an E-bike (or an normal push bike if you like) and you take care of the 9 miles return trip within an hour and do something for your heath.. Or even a motorbike would cut the time enormously. Instead of that you are sitting in a traffic jam for ages..
Thom
I'm an avid cyclist, I do it for sport, exercise and recreation. I mostly ride road racing bikes. I don't ride my bikes to run errands or go to work. I will agree that I can sometimes out run the cars with my bike when the traffic is bad, but strapping groceries to my drop handlebars isn't going to happen or going into a store with my cycling kit on. Getting an upright bike with storage is an option, but I think pedaling one of those would mess up my form. E-bike? no I'll power my bikes with my legs.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

mreisner

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 25, 2019
Messages
901
Location
North of Detroit
Stop it. Don’t blame the user.

These were bad ratchets that were known to reverse or release under load. This is why breaker bars were used. And we coupled them with 12pt sockets socket to make the breakers usable. Stop arguing with the margins and get the point being made.

Some of us have a limited threshold for ****** tools. Some of us can patiently deal with it.

If you are looking for a reason why some people LOVE Snap On and rave about it, while others can’t be bothered, look no further. That either ratchet can remove a fastener is absolutely not the point, nor does that make those two tools equivalent. There’s a ****** tool tolerance limit.

My limit for non-functioning **** is REALLY low. My wife loves AirBnBs. I don’t. I typically bring tools to fix all the broken **** on vacation. None of my cars squeak or rattle. Can’t have it. No faucets drip. My grandmother was German.
My wife can't understand why when Im driving and something starts rattling in the vehicle I want to know what it is. Lots of years running Equipment and odd noise is the first sign of trouble and hopefully stop it before it gets larger.
 

Sumboodie

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 20, 2021
Messages
10,660
Location
AK
Devil's advocate: Craftsman raised panel wrenches are low performers. Their open ends are notoriously bad and this is widely known.

I'm sure we've all worked with someone purporting to do pro grade work but due to their tools, couldn't deliver. As a part time carpenter, I don't really want to share my chisels or knives with someone who didn't care enough to buy good quality and maintain them. I'm shocked by how often my subs need to borrow my tools to do their work.

I think the coworker's reaction was unprofessional. But there could be more to this story. There are circumstances I could imagine where this would not be outrageous behavior.

Never heard that one. Been using the same set for almost 25 years.
Have a Snap On set but very rarely use it. They are too skinny and polished so slippery and cut into my hands if i don't wrap it in a rag.
 

neophyte

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 23, 2012
Messages
9,557
Location
Pennsylvannia
Do tell. What's the story there?
Snap-On bought Bahco, which was a major tool producer that in turn, owned a number of European tool brands.
My understanding was that Bahco may have been the “largest” European tool brand or producer.
Bahco had been owned by Sandvik, a major high end steel producer.
Bahco was known for the quality of their tools and tool designs.
After Snap-On bought Bahco, Snap-On had most of the tool production that had existed in Sweden, moved to Southern France and Spain, supposedly for tax credits for setting up tool production , or employing people in economically distressed areas of the European Union.
Some Bahvo tools were already produced in France and Spain, based on prior production arrangements or other brands that were part of Bahco, such as the Spanish produced bench vises.
Other tools such as pliers and adjustable wrenches, had been produced in Sweden, to very high standards, and quality went down with the shift in production location, and certain production methods, like box joint construction used on the Bahco/Lindstrom pliers, got changed to a lap joint.
 

liliysdad

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 18, 2008
Messages
5,378
Never heard that one. Been using the same set for almost 25 years.
Have a Snap On set but very rarely use it. They are too skinny and polished so slippery and cut into my hands if i don't wrap it in a rag.

I readily admit that everyone is different, with differing experiences and preferences....but come on...

Its not really subjective in suggesting that Snap On wrenches are better tools that raised panel Craftsman's. The only question to be determined by the user is whether they are enough better to justify. That is subjective.

They cut into your hands? You may prefer a chunkier wrench, but stating the only way they are usable is to wrap them in a rag is a bit dramatic.
 

2ndGearRubber

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 24, 2014
Messages
14,185
Location
Pittsburgh
Stop it. Don’t blame the user.

These were bad ratchets that were known to reverse or release under load. This is why breaker bars were used. And we coupled them with 12pt sockets socket to make the breakers usable. Stop arguing with the margins and get the point being made.

Some of us have a limited threshold for ****** tools. Some of us can patiently deal with it.

If you are looking for a reason why some people LOVE Snap On and rave about it, while others can’t be bothered, look no further. That either ratchet can remove a fastener is absolutely not the point, nor does that make those two tools equivalent. There’s a ****** tool tolerance limit.

My limit for non-functioning **** is REALLY low. My wife loves AirBnBs. I don’t. I typically bring tools to fix all the broken **** on vacation. None of my cars squeak or rattle. Can’t have it. No faucets drip. My grandmother was German.

I'm not an angry or high strung person except for two situations.

1) I can't hear you because you won't speak up with my deaf ears and this 90db background noise shop

2) **** tools. Just kills me to work harder. Luckily good tools are universally more available then even when. I got into tools a decade ago
 

AEAdam

Well-known member
Joined
May 27, 2023
Messages
2,729
Location
SE PA
I wonder if having small hands, are making users uncomfortable, with raised panel hand tools. :lol:

Wearer of size XL gloves, so :dunno:
Ditto. I recall when I first used Snap On wrenches at work and thinking they were slippery.

I guess as I think of it now, if you picked up a wrench in a store grasping it as you might with your hand in the center of the wrench, you’re a dumb ***. Literally no one uses combo wrenches like that.

You grab the head of it opposite of the bolt and all wrenches are more or less the same there. If I’m using the box end, I probably have a finger in the open end if I can fit it.

I recall working on some landing gear hydraulic lines. Got hydraulic oil kinda everywhere and my tools were slippery. That was the first and last time I ever thought about it. I wear nitrile gloves and never have that problem.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I’m not sure Snap On’s notorious thin beam and high polish is a real problem. If a good thing to say for people who just hate Snap On, which is fair.
 

2ndGearRubber

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 24, 2014
Messages
14,185
Location
Pittsburgh
I readily admit that everyone is different, with differing experiences and preferences....but come on...

Its not really subjective in suggesting that Snap On wrenches are better tools that raised panel Craftsman's. The only question to be determined by the user is whether they are enough better to justify. That is subjective.

They cut into your hands? You may prefer a chunkier wrench, but stating the only way they are usable is to wrap them in a rag is a bit dramatic.

That's also why you pull with the end, not the middle. If you need to pull with the middle, you need a shorter wrench.

You're spot on, it's hard to buy complete garbage anymore. Then we all fall into my matrix of y=x price versus y=(root)x quality. Frankly I enjoy just having a lot of different, quality, brands because it really helps me hone in on what exactly I like.


Snap on needs to make more tools with satin finish, or instance.
 

richfinn

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 29, 2011
Messages
4,809
Location
Leeds, Yorkshire, England
That's also why you pull with the end, not the middle. If you need to pull with the middle, you need a shorter wrench.

You're spot on, it's hard to buy complete garbage anymore. Then we all fall into my matrix of y=x price versus y=(root)x quality. Frankly I enjoy just having a lot of different, quality, brands because it really helps me hone in on what exactly I like.


Snap on needs to make more tools with satin finish, or instance.

I like this approach too, mix and match good quality brands keep what works best and then sell off what doesn't work out.

I've got Snap-On, Stahlwille and Facom wrenches (all have different strengths and weaknesses).
 

neophyte

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 23, 2012
Messages
9,557
Location
Pennsylvannia
Oh I can answer that one. In 1990, Craftsman pretty much dominated and were the best tools out there (barring the truck tools). They were sponsoring NASCAR teams. And side by side, Craftsman had a 32T ratchet and so did Snap On.

For weekend warriors, there were Taiwan tools which were absolute rubbish. But maybe the biggest barrier for asian tools was where they were offered. Maybe you could find them in an auto parts store. When HF started, they had really crappy merchandize. Not like today (honestly).

Some old timers I knew had SK, but they were nothing special. I had a pretty big set of Craftsman and still do. 3/8" sockets were ok. RP wrenches had unusable open ends. Those same 1990s vintage wrenches were tested by TTC and they were comparable to some modern Taiwan wrenches. I think in open ends, there's a pretty big difference between the top tier and the mid tier. 1/4" Drive craftsman was abhorrent. By the late 1990s, mediocre Craftsman tools became much worse Chinese Craftsman. You know the end of that story.

In my youth, Japanese cars like Honda were the WORST. Taiwan tools were terrible. Contrast that with today. Early Japanese made Civics were recalled for body rust.

BTW: I had performance failures with Craftsman that drove me to find better tools (Snap On). I was driving a Porsche to work every day. Swapping cam belts every 30,000 miles as required, yanking CVs, replacing suspension bushings, did an exhaust etc etc. Some sockets like bit sockets just weren't up to the task.

But I kept my Craftsman even after upgrading specific tools. What attracted me to Snap On after that was higher tooth count ratchets, and the hard handle screwdrivers, which were game changers for us. After ratchets I got wobble extensions which I don't recall seeing at Sears, then finally sockets and wrenches.
For f@cks sake.
“Truck tool brands” and “Craftsman” were far from the only “good” or “Great” tool brands available in the 1990s.

“Truck Tool brands” usually only covers brands like Snap-On, Matco, and MAC Tools.
“Craftsman” doesn’t even just cover a dingle tool line, since during the 1990s, Craftsman had different quality levels, from the basic lower level raised panel line of tools, to the higher end “Craftsman Professional” line.

The Craftsman Professional line of tools was made to a large extent by Danagher, which at the time meant production of a number of items was by Armstrong Tools.
In Addition, SK made tools for the Craftsman Pro line, which also included production of some items inFrance by Facom, because at that time, SK was owned by Facom, and the tool lines went by the brand “SK-Facom” in the USA.
In addition, Knipex and Bahco were producing tools for the Craftsman Pro brand, and Wilde, and Vsughan, and a number of other professional brands were producing tools for the Craftsman or Craftsman Pro brands.
Sears also had Facom and Knipex and Starrett, and other top quality brands being sold in their stores and tool catalogs.

If you didn’t have access to a “Tool Truck”, there were other Professional and Industrial tool brands for sale, usually at local Industrial Suppliers and Hardware stores, as well as major Industrial Suppliers like Grainger.
SK Tools is routinely mentioned, but Armstrong, Wright, Williams (yes, owned by Snap-On but distributed differently), Proto, Martin (admittedly a bit more niche), etc.
For pliers, Klein, Channellock, Crescent (back when USA made), and a bunch of other brands were all available.
Quality German screwdriver brands like Wiha and Wera were found at local industrial hardware stores, as were the Swiss made Wiha pliers, which were nice.

As far as “every household owning Craftsman tools”, it was a myth.
Sears didn’t have a store anywhere near where I lived in Philadelphia during the 1990s, and it was therefore easier to go to Grainger, or a half dozen other Industrial suppliers, than to get to a Sears, and while deals could be good at Sears, the company was sort of full of sh!t from my experiences.
 

neophyte

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 23, 2012
Messages
9,557
Location
Pennsylvannia
That's also why you pull with the end, not the middle. If you need to pull with the middle, you need a shorter wrench.

You're spot on, it's hard to buy complete garbage anymore. Then we all fall into my matrix of y=x price versus y=(root)x quality. Frankly I enjoy just having a lot of different, quality, brands because it really helps me hone in on what exactly I like.


Snap on needs to make more tools with satin finish, or instance.
“Satin Finish” Snap-On wrenches, are basically the Industrial Williams wrenches with a mat chrome finish.
I presume Snap-On dealers might even be able to order the wrenches for a customer.
 

Kurt4440

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Messages
2,433
Location
Western New York
And really, what is the difference between buying tools on credit to get a job, or taking out a college loan?

I don't see a difference, both are investments in a person's future, but, there needs to be a return on the investment.

Your analogy did make me think of how there could be friction between Snap-On advocates and other tool users.

If I keep telling employees in production that I have an engineering degree and a Master's degree, I am trying to convince them from a pulpit of authority. I will quickly shut down their willingness to express ideas or concerns, and create an atmosphere of us versus them.

If, I go out on the shop floor, demonstrate my ideas and work with them, I mitigate the negative atmosphere, and I might actually learn something.

Good ideas, people, and even tools will rise to the top when they are allowed to demonstrate their worthiness. I like my Snap-On screwdrivers, but, I like my Vessel screwdrivers just as much.
 

AEAdam

Well-known member
Joined
May 27, 2023
Messages
2,729
Location
SE PA
For f@cks sake.
“Truck tool brands” and “Craftsman” were far from the only “good” or “Great” tool brands available in the 1990s.

I agree with this. I think out here in the burbs, our wives were buying sheets or whatever they bought at Sears and the craftsman department was full of husbands. Industrial supply places were closer to the city, which many of us steered clear of.

BTW, I’m closer to the Delaware store but Sharon Hill is the closest in our state. That’s a pretty rough store. I stay away from Franklin Mills too many shootings!
“Satin Finish” Snap-On wrenches, are basically the Industrial Williams wrenches with a mat chrome finish.
I presume Snap-On dealers might even be able to order the wrenches for a customer.
I bought this industrial finish set on eBay for about $100. They are FD+ which are pretty rare in the wild.

They needed some TLC. Thanks to oxpho blue and some elbow grease, bit of crayon, they are now respectable looking and feel nice.

Stuff sells on eBay for any amount of money. If you are patient you can find deals. What do you think these would fetch in our classifieds? (not for sale). My guess is $300.
IMG_7636.jpeg
 

JeepYJ

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 25, 2015
Messages
8,900
Sears didn’t have a store anywhere near where I lived in Philadelphia during the 1990s
The 90s were the beginning of the end for Sears. Prior to that they had their big catalogs they sent out to customers including a tool only catalog.
Many very small towns, including the little nearby town of 3,000 people where I grew up, had a Sears storefront that was for mail order only, basically an Amazon pickup location of today. Nearly every mall had a Sears as one of the big anchor stores on one end of the mall.
 

JeepYJ

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 25, 2015
Messages
8,900
I don't see a difference, both are investments in a person's future, but, there needs to be a return on the investment.
Education is in a persons brain and develops their skills and knowledge. Tools are just things that can lost or stolen. Big difference between the two.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

AEAdam

Well-known member
Joined
May 27, 2023
Messages
2,729
Location
SE PA
I don't see a difference, both are investments in a person's future, but, there needs to be a return on the investment.

Your analogy did make me think of how there could be friction between Snap-On advocates and other tool users.

If I keep telling employees in production that I have an engineering degree and a Master's degree, I am trying to convince them from a pulpit of authority. I will quickly shut down their willingness to express ideas or concerns, and create an atmosphere of us versus them.

If, I go out on the shop floor, demonstrate my ideas and work with them, I mitigate the negative atmosphere, and I might actually learn something.

Good ideas, people, and even tools will rise to the top when they are allowed to demonstrate their worthiness. I like my Snap-On screwdrivers, but, I like my Vessel screwdrivers just as much.
You may have lost me. The analogy I see is because I have an engineering or 2, I’m worthless, and out of touch with reality.

One gentleman said, (essentially) people who own snap on tools do so because they enjoying sucking the **** of the snap on driver. @Ultradog MN says we believe the tools are “sprinkled with fairy dust”. Apparently only he knows the truth.

This thread is about the rage against the brand and people who own snap on tools. We’re called elitists.

@Shoreline_ is right on. I’ve seen the same attitudes in woodworking forums regarding Festool. Because it’s expensive, the owners must therefore be idiots, posers, not real woodworkers.

So as I read your post, it’s like that (prejudice) but opposite.
 

Kurt4440

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Messages
2,433
Location
Western New York
Education is in a persons brain and develops their skills and knowledge. Tools are just things that can lost or stolen. Big difference between the two.

Tuition payments are not education, you can't buy knowledge and skill. Didn't you study while you were in school?
If 2ndGearRubber had all of his tools stolen, do you think his 10+ years of experience and all of his skill along with his knowledge will evaporate?
 

JeepYJ

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 25, 2015
Messages
8,900
Tuition payments are not education, you can't buy knowledge and skill. Didn't you study while you were in school?
If 2ndGearRubber had all of his tools stolen, do you think his 10+ years of experience and all of his skill along with his knowledge will evaporate?
Ok let me rephrase my statement. A degree earned shows grasp of knowledge and applied education. The books and computers and papers used in earning the degree are just things. Like tools.
Tradespeople can have certifications or degrees too. Their tools are just things to help them use their knowledge.
 

neophyte

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 23, 2012
Messages
9,557
Location
Pennsylvannia
You may have lost me. The analogy I see is because I have an engineering or 2, I’m worthless, and out of touch with reality.

One gentleman said, (essentially) people who own snap on tools do so because they enjoying sucking the **** of the snap on driver. @Ultradog MN says we believe the tools are “sprinkled with fairy dust”. Apparently only he knows the truth.

This thread is about the rage against the brand and people who own snap on tools. We’re called elitists.

@Shoreline_ is right on. I’ve seen the same attitudes in woodworking forums regarding Festool. Because it’s expensive, the owners must therefore be idiots, posers, not real woodworkers.

So as I read your post, it’s like that (prejudice) but opposite.
The issue with Snap-On, is some owners have a snide attitude against any brand that isn’t Snap-On.
It reminds me of the comment Steve Jobs made to some reporter back during the iPod days, that the white earbuds would help guys pock up chicks, and the reporter asked why some guy couldn’t just buy the white earbuds, and Jobs responded that once the chick saw the MP3 player wasn’t an iPod “the deal was off”.

Snap-On generally makes very good tools,
as does Festool,
But neither brand is really the pinnacle of tool manufacture, performance, or design, at least on all their tools.
Snap-On still clings to the slip joint plier design, which some users like, but which has always annoyed me due to the lack of adjustment positions. I even get annoyed at the tongue and groove Channellock design, and that design has more positions than a similar type of pliers that uses the slip joint design.
Do users like the slip joint design due to ease of switching positions with one hand?
There are a number of adjustment mechanisms with finer adjustment, that are long since out of patent, and even the Knipex system used on the Cobra pliers is out of patent, with the possible exception of the newer curved design.
As for Festool, their tools are mostly designed for cabinetmaking finish carpentry, and the top of the line Bosch jigsaws are usually a better all around jigsaw design.
I’m also not certain about the current tools, but I don’t think Festool is really the best motor manufacturer.
 

Kurt4440

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Messages
2,433
Location
Western New York
You may have lost me. The analogy I see is because I have an engineering or 2, I’m worthless, and out of touch with reality.

I agree, you seem a little lost.
If you thought that through, I would be saying that I am worthless as well, and out of touch with reality.

We all know Snap-On makes good tools, but, sometimes the zealots beat people over the head with their message. That usually creates an us vs them scenario.
 

AEAdam

Well-known member
Joined
May 27, 2023
Messages
2,729
Location
SE PA
I agree, you seem a little lost.
If you thought that through, I would be saying that I am worthless as well, and out of touch with reality.

We all know Snap-On makes good tools, but, sometimes the zealots beat people over the head with their message. That usually creates an us vs them scenario.
Respect. This thread is about the opposite happening from what you are thinking. If you say anything at all positive about Snap On you are labeled and derided. Reread the OP please.

I don’t recommend it but you’d have to read the comments following the video that initiated this thread.

Quick synopsis: snap on created a test to compare open end wrench clearance. In a head to head against a smooth jawed Icon, the FD+ wrench lost. (Hope I have that right). Some folks said the guy did the test wrong (he didn’t). But the overwhelming responses were how the HF did the same job or better for less money and is therefore the superior tool.

We hear that same sentiment every time anyone mentions Snap on here. It’s exhausting. @2ndGearRubber asked about colors for an Epiq box he wanted to buy and several members wanted to tell him about the value of USgeneral.
 

2ndGearRubber

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 24, 2014
Messages
14,185
Location
Pittsburgh
I don't see a difference, both are investments in a person's future, but, there needs to be a return on the investment.

Your analogy did make me think of how there could be friction between Snap-On advocates and other tool users.

If I keep telling employees in production that I have an engineering degree and a Master's degree, I am trying to convince them from a pulpit of authority. I will quickly shut down their willingness to express ideas or concerns, and create an atmosphere of us versus them.

If, I go out on the shop floor, demonstrate my ideas and work with them, I mitigate the negative atmosphere, and I might actually learn something.

Good ideas, people, and even tools will rise to the top when they are allowed to demonstrate their worthiness. I like my Snap-On screwdrivers, but, I like my Vessel screwdrivers just as much.

Damn, now that's management/people skills.

Kudos for that, the world needs more people like you.
 

mudflap

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 25, 2011
Messages
1,279
Location
cincinnati,ohio
I'm an avid cyclist, I do it for sport, exercise and recreation. I mostly ride road racing bikes. I don't ride my bikes to run errands or go to work. I will agree that I can sometimes out run the cars with my bike when the traffic is bad, but strapping groceries to my drop handlebars isn't going to happen or going into a store with my cycling kit on. Getting an upright bike with storage is an option, but I think pedaling one of those would mess up my form. E-bike? no I'll power my bikes with my legs.
Arent you afraid of getting run over..? Around here its usually cars that are waiting to get over to go around the bike riders that cause the traffic jams. Most parks have paved bike paths..seems like that would be safer ?
 

2ndGearRubber

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 24, 2014
Messages
14,185
Location
Pittsburgh
Education is in a persons brain and develops their skills and knowledge. Tools are just things that can lost or stolen. Big difference between the two.

Eh, kind of. You can't loose experience very easily, but I can't time an ecoboost 1.6L without the tools. Someone with no knowledge prior, but the tools and a YouTube video, could time that engine properly. Could, not a promise, but could.

They'd have a better chance than me trying to eyeball cam/crank alignments without the pin that sets the crank to TDC, plate that locks the cams, alignement tool for the cam phasers, and with none of the pulleys indexed or keyed in any way.


I know everybody HATES the concept of tools as an investment. If it's your job, it has ROI, it's an "investment" in the same way a college education is or a piece of equipment is for a farmer. It's a capital investment designed to produce more output than it's cost. I don't care how much you know, if it's me versus Kieth defasio or John Thorton to diagnose a car, and they have nothing but a screwdriver, I will be beat them. You can't really diagnose a canbus network with a screwdriver, or find a very small evap leak with your eyes. So the tools are always relevant. They're way better diagnosticians than I will EVER be, but if one has no tooling to do the job, you're done. It's like trying to be an ice skater with no ice skates.

You have to have the tools to do the work. My method starting out was cheaper tools but LOTS of them. I spent nearly every penny I had to buy more and more, and spent my free time learning as much as I could. It worked well for me, but it's not the only option, just an option. I did all makes all models, had no formal education. I probably got taught more bad information by "techs" than I did good. Did you know rear wheels dont have wheel bearings? Valuable nugget of information I was taught. Hell I probably burnt the first 3-4 years of my career with little/no help or teaching, just infinite suffering. That's a symptom of the business model,but that's another thread.
 

2ndGearRubber

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 24, 2014
Messages
14,185
Location
Pittsburgh
Respect. This thread is about the opposite happening from what you are thinking. If you say anything at all positive about Snap On you are labeled and derided. Reread the OP please.

I don’t recommend it but you’d have to read the comments following the video that initiated this thread.

Quick synopsis: snap on created a test to compare open end wrench clearance. In a head to head against a smooth jawed Icon, the FD+ wrench lost. (Hope I have that right). Some folks said the guy did the test wrong (he didn’t). But the overwhelming responses were how the HF did the same job or better for less money and is therefore the superior tool.

We hear that same sentiment every time anyone mentions Snap on here. It’s exhausting. @2ndGearRubber asked about colors for an Epiq box he wanted to buy and several members wanted to tell him about the value of USgeneral.

It's the other way.

The nylon nut test was for a smooth jaw versus a modified open end like an FD+, icon, proto asd, etc. The reason to use nylon was so you didn't need 80ft/lb on a 8" wrench to see the difference.

The test wasn't really about different types of modified open ends, it was supposed to show a modified open end versus flat jaws.


Now, TTC released another video with actual bolts, where snap on won every single test by various margins. Craftsman was a big winner too. But now that test will go unposted here because "it's all the same icon is just cheaper" as a narrative falls apart with that data.

I bet Wright would still best snap on. 💪
 

dchawk81

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
14,345
Ditto. I recall when I first used Snap On wrenches at work and thinking they were slippery.

I guess as I think of it now, if you picked up a wrench in a store grasping it as you might with your hand in the center of the wrench, you’re a dumb ***. Literally no one uses combo wrenches like that.

You grab the head of it opposite of the bolt and all wrenches are more or less the same there. If I’m using the box end, I probably have a finger in the open end if I can fit it.

I recall working on some landing gear hydraulic lines. Got hydraulic oil kinda everywhere and my tools were slippery. That was the first and last time I ever thought about it. I wear nitrile gloves and never have that problem.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I’m not sure Snap On’s notorious thin beam and high polish is a real problem. If a good thing to say for people who just hate Snap On, which is fair.
I'd need to see the in action because it doesn't sound like any normal kind of wrench use to me. There isn't much real estate on the head itself to ONLY grip that part. And most open ends have sharp edges.
 

JeepYJ

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 25, 2015
Messages
8,900
Eh, kind of. You can't loose experience very easily, but I can't time an ecoboost 1.6L without the tools. Someone with no knowledge prior, but the tools and a YouTube video, could time that engine properly. Could, not a promise, but could.
An engineer needs their tools too. So does a
doctor or dentist. Without the knowledge those tools are useless or maybe dangerous.
 

dchawk81

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
14,345
Tuition payments are not education, you can't buy knowledge and skill. Didn't you study while you were in school?
If 2ndGearRubber had all of his tools stolen, do you think his 10+ years of experience and all of his skill along with his knowledge will evaporate?
It would if it was snap on. It's snap on that makes you a professional.

😃
 

dchawk81

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
14,345
I have some literal $1 wrenches that got me out of a jam out on the road and I have a SO ratchet that allows me to install/adjust my mirrors one handed because I need to hang onto the door with the other so all this talk about one not being good enough or the other not being worth the money is silly nonsense.

It really depends on the person and what they're doing and what their motivations are.

I'll use anything I have on hand or can walk to and get in a pinch if it avoids paying a wrecker, but I'm not going to hang off the side of my truck with one arm and try to use a high back drag POS ratchet with the other.
 

2ndGearRubber

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 24, 2014
Messages
14,185
Location
Pittsburgh
I have some literal $1 wrenches that got me out of a jam out on the road and I have a SO ratchet that allows me to install/adjust my mirrors one handed because I need to hang onto the door with the other so all this talk about one not being good enough or the other not being worth the money is silly nonsense.

It really depends on the person and what they're doing and what their motivations are.

I'll use anything I have on hand or can walk to and get in a pinch if it avoids paying a wrecker, but I'm not going to hang off the side of my truck with one arm and try to use a high back drag POS ratchet with the other.

I'm pretty sure that's the opinion of 99% of this forum.

The number of die hard brand X, Y, or Z people really aren't that high.
 

AEAdam

Well-known member
Joined
May 27, 2023
Messages
2,729
Location
SE PA
It's the other way.

The nylon nut test was for a smooth jaw versus a modified open end like an FD+, icon, proto asd, etc. The reason to use nylon was so you didn't need 80ft/lb on a 8" wrench to see the difference.

The test wasn't really about different types of modified open ends, it was supposed to show a modified open end versus flat jaws.


Now, TTC released another video with actual bolts, where snap on won every single test by various margins. Craftsman was a big winner too. But now that test will go unposted here because "it's all the same icon is just cheaper" as a narrative falls apart with that data.

I bet Wright would still best snap on. 💪
Whatever Snap On said it was for, what the test really shows is: The wrench that exerts the most stress on the nylon, loses.

There are various ways to win. Wider wrenches with tighter jaw dimensions should win. FD+ or Wright would have distinct disadvantages. Their contact patches are tiny and create stresses so high they can damage a bolt head.

What I suspect Snap On was trying to show were cheap wrenches, so sloppy that they never really made contact on the flat. They rode the corner. It was a good test to tell that story. But they probably (like all of us) needed to predict increasing competition from Asia.

It’s a relevant test an exciting result because it shows some Taiwan wrenches at least are getting their business ends under tolerance control.

What it doesn’t show is how that wrench will perform in anger. Nor does it indicate the better wrench, even tho that’s how Snap On reps interpreted the results when their wrenches won.

Here’s what GJ needs to know: You want strong wrenches with tight clearance. Either one of these isn’t good enough. You need both to be successful. If your favorite wrench has both high strength (stress/thickness in TTC) AND low clearance, they will be a good tool for you. Props if your wrench exhibits good strength and is also thin. Not sure I’d pick the top ranked wrenches for that reason. They are among the thickest wrenches available.
 
Last edited:

dchawk81

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
14,345
Whatever Snap On said it was for, what the test really shows is: The wrench that exerts the most stress on the nylon, loses.

There are various ways to win. Wider wrenches with tighter jaw dimensions should win. FD+ or Wright would have distinct disadvantages. Their contact patches are tiny and create stresses so high they can damage a bolt head.

What I suspect Snap On was trying to show were cheap wrenches, so sloppy that they never really made contact on the flat. They rode the corner. It was a good test to tell that story. But they probably (like all of us) needed to predict increasing competition from Asia.

It’s a relevant test an exciting result because if shows some Taiwan wrenches at least are getting their business ends under tolerance control.

What it doesn’t show is how that wrench will perform in anger. Nor does it indicate the better wrench, even tho that’s how Snap On reps interpreted the results when their wrenches won.

Here’s what GJ needs to know: You want strong wrenches with tight clearance. Either one of these isn’t good enough. You need both to be successful. If your favorite wrench has both high strength (stress/thickness in TTC) AND low clearance, they will be a good tool for you. Props if your wrench exhibits good strength and is also thin. Not sure I’d pick the top ranked wrenches for that reason. They are among the thickest wrenches available.
What do you mean by clearance? The thickness of the head, or the fitment on a fastener? I'm a little lost here. You also used two different adjectives. "Tight" and "low."

Because not everyone cares how thick a wrench is. It's not an issue for everyone.

I'm pretty sure everyone wants their wrench to fit as snug as possible without being a PITA to use (RBRT is not practical for normal wrenching because of how tight the fit is).
 

Meursault74

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 1, 2019
Messages
21,893
Location
Southern California
Arent you afraid of getting run over..? Around here its usually cars that are waiting to get over to go around the bike riders that cause the traffic jams. Most parks have paved bike paths..seems like that would be safer ?
not afraid. Concerned, yes. We have bike lanes and shoulders on the highways. That's where I ride mostly. Cyclists don't cause traffic jams here. I will take the lane out past the distance from an out swinging door if there is no shoulder and cars are parked along the way. It's legal to do so and I do it because car drivers that park never look before they open their doors. I've Seen a guy get "doored", I've had them opened up as I came by, but alas I was outside the radius.

Getting run over from behind is rare. My closest call was when a car passed me and then went to make a right into a parking lot in front of me. I almost ended up T-boning him, but I yelled out, he stopped and I was able to squeeze through unscathed between the car and the curb/driveway. It was maybe a foot or two and things seemed to go in slow motion as it happened. I was on the highway and I was likely traveling about 25 mph, much faster than a "guy tootling around on a bike". I suppose he misjudged my speed. He shouldn't have as that stretch of highway is know for the go fast cyclist so to speak.

We also have bike paths along the beach and some parks. Those are more dangerous than any highway in my opinion. That's were "people on bikes" and roller bladers and joggers go. They're wearing earphones and not paying attention and many aren't that skilled from what I've observed. There's no point for me to ride there. I believe the legal speed limit is 10 mph there anyway and that's likely a good thing.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom