Why does Snap-On continuously make people rage?
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Firebrick43
Well-known member
I have a few, and they certainly are good benders but that is a tall stretch to say they are the best. Maybe if you are comparing them against Imperials low line 364-FHA benders but I would take 364-FHB benders any day over 400 series ridgid.
The 600 series ridgids are even nicer than the 400 series but again, imperial 664 has them beat.
gatewaysysop
Well-known member
Agree 100%.
I have never understood brand zealots, fanbois or the haters. It's really embarrassing for a well adjusted adult to be that invested, one way or the other, in how other people spend their money. It's the same mentality as folks labeling other users "tool polishers." Why does anyone care that much about what another person does with their own tools?
isb cornbinder
Well-known member
I have to agree with you. I have used my LAB benders to form fuel injection lines. My Imperial worked perfectly for forming a .500" stainless fuel line for a low pressure, common-rail.
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Good thread. Good honest responses. This post above, I’d just like to say to everybody:
Please leave open the possibility that the proponents of a given product MAY not be glaze-eyed cult followers of a brand, but may in fact be rationale people who really do think Apple computers or Snap On tools, or Porsches work better than the competition. Because someone loves a brand doesn’t mean the brand alone is the reason for their support (tho it can be). The concept of a fanboy is pretty dismissive and offensive to people who enjoy that product.
As an engineer, I loved my Porsche. They were (at least once upon a time) uncompromising pieces of engineering. Easy to drive fast, comfortable, and kinda joys to work on. I’d look sideways at an engineer who didn’t love a Porsche. Yet I always heard the ridicule and nonsense about male insecurity. Yes, of course that’s just a dumb joke, but I think some people really believe that such purchases reflect an inadequacy because they simply can’t discern what someone else sees in the product. To me, that’s just sad.
I hope we’re not like that here. Maybe this thread can be a consciousness raiser. I feel more inclined to ask specifically what you guys like about the tools you love. I think there should be no wrong answers.
One of my best friends is a huge BMW M enthusiast. When I first met him thank goodness he acknowledged how absolutely idiotic most BMW engineering is.
Still amazing performance vehicles.
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
One of my best friends is a huge BMW M enthusiast. When I first met him thank goodness he acknowledged how absolutely idiotic most BMW engineering is.
Still amazing performance vehicles.
My opinion is the Porsche is nice to work on ONLY because they're typically cream-puff vehicles. Rarely driven in winter, lower mileage, etc. Try working on a matte black wrapped gen 1 Cayenne with 200k on it, it's quickly apparent porsche is the same engineering as the rest of VAG. BMW M vehicles are **** to work on, primarily because the base vehicles are also **** to work on. FWIW, I exclusively work on 3rd owner junk.
German engineers assume the same personality type is going to buy and maintain the car. I'm not sure anyone in the american market does the latter, and typically no repairs are done before the car is at a critical state.
It's quite fashionable these days, to be cheap, mainly because many people don't have a lot of money. 
Feels good to go against the "rich" guys.
It's hard to argue the job can't be done for much less, by stopping at Harbor Freight verse the Snap On web site or truck salesman.
Snap On is better? really doesn't matter to most.
Feels good to go against the "rich" guys.It's hard to argue the job can't be done for much less, by stopping at Harbor Freight verse the Snap On web site or truck salesman.
Snap On is better? really doesn't matter to most.
It's quite fashionable these days, to be cheap, mainly because many people don't have a lot of money.
It's hard to argue the job can't be done for much less, by stopping at Harbor Freight verse the Snap On web site or truck salesman.
Snap On is better? really doesn't matter to most.
I think the greatest thing HF offers is the ability to buy tools the same day that you can't find anywhere but a tool truck. I've bought all sorts of specialty tools at HF that are unobtanium from a local auto parts store. A real win for the DIYer.
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
HF was a key tool I leveraged as a young mechanic to tool up. Not the best, not the worst. Okay some stuff was the worst, I had a few duds. But overall it gave me a lot of options, for not a lot of money. Most was eventually worn out and replaced, or upgraded version bought and the HF kept as backups and special use items.
You know what snap on doesn't make? Wobble impact extensions. You know who does? Pittsburgh Pro. It takes a village.
shoggoth80
Well-known member
Haters gonna hate? 
In all seriousness, I can understand the sticker shock. If I had to start over, there's some items that might be different in my cart. Do I regret the purchases I have made with Snap On? Nope. I'm not a die hard fanboy, but I love my Snap On roto ratchets. I will use whatever it takes to get the job done. Can it be done for less? Absolutely. No bolt ever complained about the brand turning it though. I work with some old Snappy loyalists, though I think they're more fondly remembering what was vs. what currently is.
For better or worse they've set themselves up as top of the food chain. So they're the standard everyone compares to. They probably manufacture more in-house than other upper echelon brands, so that probably plays a part in it, along with the premium tools perception. Everyone wants to take down the top guy.
I can say that the guy who runs our route is solid. He's warrantied items for me that I didn't purchase from him, but I also made sure to check that he was gonna get credited for the warranty items before I swapped.
In all seriousness, I can understand the sticker shock. If I had to start over, there's some items that might be different in my cart. Do I regret the purchases I have made with Snap On? Nope. I'm not a die hard fanboy, but I love my Snap On roto ratchets. I will use whatever it takes to get the job done. Can it be done for less? Absolutely. No bolt ever complained about the brand turning it though. I work with some old Snappy loyalists, though I think they're more fondly remembering what was vs. what currently is.
For better or worse they've set themselves up as top of the food chain. So they're the standard everyone compares to. They probably manufacture more in-house than other upper echelon brands, so that probably plays a part in it, along with the premium tools perception. Everyone wants to take down the top guy.
I can say that the guy who runs our route is solid. He's warrantied items for me that I didn't purchase from him, but I also made sure to check that he was gonna get credited for the warranty items before I swapped.
shoggoth80
Well-known member
I think most take issue with this one. I've seen it. Relatively young tech, $10k tool box, barely anything in it. Better to have a budget box that you can lock filled with decent tools, than a top tier box with next to nothing in it. Old hand I worked under at the time didn't quite put it in those words... But sales tactics + bad decisions...a fool and his money etc.
I get the "oooh shiny!" factor, I'm just not willing to go into long term debt for it
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
I think most take issue with this one. I've seen it. Relatively young tech, $10k tool box, barely anything in it. Better to have a budget box that you can lock filled with decent tools, than a top tier box with next to nothing in it. Old hand I worked under at the time didn't quite put it in those words... But sales tactics + bad decisions...a fool and his money etc.
I get the "oooh shiny!" factor, I'm just not willing to go into long term debt for it
Those same "victims" of predatory lending buy $3000 couches at Aarons and RentACenter.
Generally speaking, don't buy anything off the truck you can't buy in cash. Sure, for a $1000 item pay it off in pieces if you like, but you better have $1000 cash in the bank you can live without if you're shopping for $1000 items. Only caveat to that is an item with a true ROI plan, not "I'll have these wrenches for 40 years".
Sounds like a prejudice based on zero practical experience which is part of the problem. You may have heard this on the internet and believed it.
Young mechanics don’t pay interest on hand tools or boxes when they pay on time (Usually 6 months). If they need more time, the interest rate is similar to a credit card, but yes, sometimes higher.
Without Snap On, only wealthier techs would have pro grade tools. Kids from poorer families would be career limited by the tools they could afford. Snap On is the exact opposite of what people rage against with their class envy comments. The best grade tools are available to everyone.
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2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
Nah man, the evil tool truck man comes down to fleece the rubes at the local garage who are too dumb to know any better. We don't have much of the book learnin' so most of that fancy paperwork we can't read anyways.
Same dude getting his toolbox with no tools repo'd, has a car loan with 29% interest and a 400 credit score. Fools will be fools. Surprisingly it's not a positive for snap on to repo a box. Much like a bank doesn't want your car, they want their money.
acer66
Well-known member
I think I just own 2 SnapOn sockets but I own some Festool tools so I know how it goes
A lot of people seem to take things personal and make it about themselves and their views.
Like that I bought that brand to show them that I am better than them.
I would care less if I could.
You also overpay by getting big red or yellow etc tools too right?
If following through with that logic we might as well all use Harbor Freight tools, shop at Dollar General and drive a Yugo.
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Ilikeike
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I wouldn't have near the Snap-On tools I have now, if I didn't get about 46% off list thru work.
Proto ,SK USA, Koken, Nepros or even my old Crapsman would be fine.
I have a couple large ICON wrenches. Taiwan is okay, but I don't do China on anything, unless there is no option.
Proto ,SK USA, Koken, Nepros or even my old Crapsman would be fine.
I have a couple large ICON wrenches. Taiwan is okay, but I don't do China on anything, unless there is no option.
There is probably a lot of reasons and not universal. We all tend to focus on what annoys us on all sides. Snap On generally charges top dollar and has good tools. But they come at very high cost. Some have a snarky attitude that they are the only "real tool" and are somehow perfection like if Snap On makes a piece of chrome steel of the same metallurgy that somehow it is much much better than the competitor product of the same dimensions and metal by seeming magic violating materials science and common sense. That can become annoying. It is curious to see that some careful tests (example wrenches) that Snap On often does well but is also often far from dominant in spite of the very high cost. This creates an "I told you so" type antagonism.
People should do what they want and it is good they have choices. But I also wonder the logic of young techs paying so so much for the snap on premium. If they do not really need tool truck service (it is pretty hard to break most things IF you use them right), I wonder if that is wise. I wish Snap On charged a bit less since I cannot justify the cost as a serious DIY guy. But I can see the attraction for key stuff for a pro if it is indeed better. Snap on relabeling other manufacturer stuff does not become magically better with slightly adjusted specs at 2x to 4x the cost before the label change. So I would be very hesitant to buy Snap On tools that they are not manufacturing and just relabeling. That is a lot to pay for to have a tool truck show up now and then.
People should do what they want and it is good they have choices. But I also wonder the logic of young techs paying so so much for the snap on premium. If they do not really need tool truck service (it is pretty hard to break most things IF you use them right), I wonder if that is wise. I wish Snap On charged a bit less since I cannot justify the cost as a serious DIY guy. But I can see the attraction for key stuff for a pro if it is indeed better. Snap on relabeling other manufacturer stuff does not become magically better with slightly adjusted specs at 2x to 4x the cost before the label change. So I would be very hesitant to buy Snap On tools that they are not manufacturing and just relabeling. That is a lot to pay for to have a tool truck show up now and then.
How do you manage that? From what I've seen on my orders at work, our discount is a few bucks at most.
I asked for a quote on a box from our account manager, it was only about $100 difference between list price and the quote.
Another quote I asked for was an adjustable wrench, discount was about $25. That's the largest percentage wise discount I've seen.
My company has an industrial account. We have hundreds of Snap On tools.
I wonder if it's based on the account manager/rep, or some other variable like the item itself or how much your account spends, etc...
I just requested a quote for that same socket set. I'm curious to see what our rep sends me.
BlakeTheCarGuy
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Honestly I could care less if someone has Snap-on or not lol. I say buy whatever works for you and I’ll buy what works for me. I have some and some things I just won’t buy from them. I’ve worked with Snap-on snobs though that think if it’s not Snap-on than it’s not good. Like I once had someone ask to borrow a wrench handed them a Craftsman USA wrench and they threw it down and told me to get that consumer grade **** out of a professional shop and walked over and got theirs. Sure Snap-on and other tool trucks is convenient but you don’t need them for everything.
Maybe the blame should go to Harbor freight and thiir highly successful “beats snap on “ marketing Angle
The YouTuber may use “exact”, which would not be correct, but HarborFreight uses “equivalent”, which most of the time is spot on and at a fraction of the snap on price
Probably what pushes even a fanboy following
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
What an *******. Some people are crazy. Especially since they're literally borrowing a tool, they should be happy with anything they're given.
Reason #1 one million I don't like borrowing. I got my stuff, I know my stuff, I want to use my stuff.
The trucks are nice,but frankly it's unreasonable to build up a full set of do-everything tools from the trucks. Costs too much. Plus the trucks don't sell Wera holding function, Koken Zeal, or any of the solid no-name Amazon tools I've purchased.
BlakeTheCarGuy
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I agree. I never let that guy use anything of mine again. I worked right next to the alignment rack at the time so that’s why he wanted my wrench instead of walking across the shop to get his. He left shortly after that and I have no idea what he is doing now. He was an old guy and a jerk. Had he asked for a metric wrench he would of gotten to use a Snap-on lol.
I don’t buy some things from the tool trucks like chrome sockets. I bought a single 10mm and a 17mm because I cracked mine on a job from a different brand and use those all the time so I just bought them because he was there at the time.
richfinn
Well-known member
Oddly enough it was The Cayenne and to a lesser extent the Boxster that saved Porsche from going under financially.
There are still purists at the Porsche factory though, who fought the board to keep the 911 dream alive (it was seen as old fashioned by the money men and was to be fazed out in favour of the 944/928)
Recently they managed to reverse the decision to go all PDK and started installing manual gearboxes again.
They will still supply parts going back decades.
The reputation for endurance and longevity was well deserved with those old air cooled cars and the racing department.
I think the real answer is some Porsches are still great from an engineering perspective and others are purely a financial decision to attract a new kind of clientele.
Much like Snap-On there are still many gems and world class tools to be found amongst the day-glo pink socks and marketing bullsh*t
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purplezr2
Well-known member
Any different then college loans? End of the the day these kids are adults and they need to make adult decisions.
More like are they any different than anything else that involves a loan?
Most people with a mortgage have a 30-year term, most car loans are 6-8 years, student loans can easily be 10+ years or even a lifetime depending on the amount, credit card debt with 30% interest is even worse, the list goes on and on.
I bought and continue to buy Snap On because I want to. I wasn't peer pressured; I wasn't trick or baited or fooled or deceived or lied to. I know exactly what I'm doing. We all make choices. But I never said they're good choices.
Industrial account.
No truck guy.
Recent order Deep sockets 214SFY $514.50 on the website.
I paid $277
We must have different types. Our rep charges shipping and tax as well, but overall the discount was only about $100 off retail.
Ilikeike
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I was just told “industrial” butWe must have different types. Our rep charges shipping and tax as well, but overall the discount was only about $100 off retail.
We are local .gov so that may be the difference .
Trolling in the youtube comment section? Imagine.
I think you can apply that to literally any youtube video about anything, ever.
Some people are snap one fans, some people aren't.
Some people like to argue for the sake of it. Very much like life really.
As for snap on, They are primarily a finance company which sells decent enough tools.
Some are very good, some are OK, some are downright rubbish.
Their USP is their dealer network, payment system, warranty, and reputation. Only you can decide if that is worth the premium to you.
Other tool brands are available, other tool trucks exist. Just pick whatever floats your boat.
The bolt won't care what brand you use.
Unfortunately some people just can't resist stirring others up, and that goes for both sides.
The more polarising the topic the bigger the fireworks.
joel63
Well-known member
Maybe the Craftsman got it loose for the Snap-on?
Hohn
Well-known member
Well said.
I think there's a dynamic at work between those who are so insecure that the feel the need to justify spending a premium and those who are so insecure they feel the need to justify not spending a premium to those who justified spending it.
And of course, it's mostly complete strangers trying to justify themselves to other complete strangers.
The degree of emotional investment I just cannot grasp. You use SO-- I'm glad you like them. You use HF-- good for you.
There are some things I will shell out for the very best I can possibly get. There are other things where I settle for the minimum viable product.
After three decades of wrench, I don't care what you do.
I'm not very brand loyal at all, but it might look that way because I stick with what has worked for me. I tend to think more of brands to avoid than brands I must have.
The .gov discount is probably the difference.
I did ask the rep however, and he said pricing and discounts are usually based on how much the company spends.
I guess we don't spend enough... We sure do warranty a lot though.
It’s not the SnapOn brand or the tools, it’s the users. When you come onto a “DIY” tool brands social media page and make stupid comments like, “Not made in the USA? That’s why I only buy SnapOn!!” or the famous, “SnapOn is better quality”… it’s infuriating because those guys are unable to comprehend that not everyone wants, needs or has access to SnapOn. Comparing SnapOn to likes of Craftsman or Tekton is comparing apples to oranges.
SnapOn fan boi’s who absolutely cannot understand why someone would use any other brand of tool are, for the most part, douches. They eat their Snicker’s upside down so they can feel the veiny texture on their tongue.
SnapOn fan boi’s who absolutely cannot understand why someone would use any other brand of tool are, for the most part, douches. They eat their Snicker’s upside down so they can feel the veiny texture on their tongue.
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
That's literally the best part of the Snickers though?
Not much of a point comparing apples and oranges as you said. I usually don't think much of COO talking about performance, but it is part of the price equation. I will pay more for an identical tool, to support 1st world manufacturing and all that entails. I'm with you 100%, don't go and **** on other discussions with your choice of brand. If people want to discuss..... Tekton, don't roll up in their angle wrench thread and say "snap on da best". If one wants to compare price/performance or has used both that's fine. But just tossing filler posts in to support brand choices doesn't add much value. The inverse of that exchange is in the snapon thread where people post "bro snap on is too expensive I buy X brand" with no other info.
US companies have for rebranded their imported products for years. In my opinion, this breaking of faith with the American people (world people) has done more to erode manufacturing than any environmental laws. It's the subtext behind so many arguments here and elsewhere. I think some folks truly believe almost anything one can buy is available with a different brand name and will be identical. other because China copies Western products or because they are the legit manufacturer. Sears, if not the originator, has been doing this for over a century. Sears didn't make anything. It was nothing but a distributor, just like Grizzly, or Harbor freight. Even Acura, Lexus, Audi aren't completely dissimilar.
Snap On used to have a slogan "There is a Difference!" I'm pretty sure people don't believe that. They look at the nylon nut YouTube and come away thinking Icon wrenches are the same or better than Snap On. Who can blame them? The reality is, as I'm sure all of you know, whatever difference there is between Snap On and other tools, that difference is tiny, complicated and may well never affect your usage. I think the point I hear continuously being made is: "Is there a discernible difference?"
Snap On used to have a slogan "There is a Difference!" I'm pretty sure people don't believe that. They look at the nylon nut YouTube and come away thinking Icon wrenches are the same or better than Snap On. Who can blame them? The reality is, as I'm sure all of you know, whatever difference there is between Snap On and other tools, that difference is tiny, complicated and may well never affect your usage. I think the point I hear continuously being made is: "Is there a discernible difference?"
It depends if they are purchasing on their credit from the driver or snap on finance. Credit from the driver (RA iirc) is usually 10 weeks and interest free, SO finance is as longer term, typically 12-24months at 15-25%, usually used for purchasing high dollar items like boxes and scanners. I’ve never heard of anyone purchasing hand tools on SO finance, maybe if they were spending a few k.
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