The point <———> The above post.
Although to be sure, I have seen Snap-On ratchets at constructions sites.
Why does Snap-On continuously make people rage?
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Although to be sure, I have seen Snap-On ratchets at constructions sites.
Respectfully, pass.
Here's the point. Some GJ members look at a tool in their toolbox and think, "how hard can it be to manufacture a screwdriver?" "It has no moving parts. Its just a steel rod with a plastic handle pushed on it". That's a misunderstanding of what goes into the manufacture of a screwdriver. If you saw a screwdriver factory, spoke to the workers, you'd get it. But lets face it: few of us have ever stepped foot in a factory. Few of us know anyone whose ever worked in a factory. First world factory jobs are a scarcity. We know increasingly little about the manufacture of products we use everyday (or the materials that comprise them).
I've spent my last 35 yrs in factories. I've toured car factories on vacation. Tool manufactuiring is FAR more complicated than many people here think. Only thing more complicated than making tools is making tool steel. There are SO many variables in steel production and processing. PM me if you want details.
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No disrespect here but you missed the entire point, which is: those higher prices for better made tools are worth it across professional industries because the buyers are buying durability in addition to strength. Cheap isn’t cheap when you have to keep replacing or driving back to the store for a replacement. That doesn’t mean it’s worth it, necessarily, for a DIYer.
neophyte
Well-known member
That was a different thread, although I’m surprised it hasn’t been brought up in this thread yet.
CGarage
Well-known member
I will add to this.
It’s not only durability and strength, in some tools, there are performance advantages offered by the premium tools compared to their lower cost alternatives that reduces risk and time when performing mechanical tasks.
You must look at the entire picture to understand the value proposition.
And we mustn't leave out the free line of credit and truck service in the value proposition. So tool performance is one thing that drives pros toward truck tools. But buying a really great ratchet for $20 that shows up at your place of work, is HUGE. To those individual techs, you kinda can't tell them, a $40 Icon ratchet they have to drive to pick up after work is better than a better quality Snap On ratchet he only pays $20 for this week. That's their reality. And whether he buys the Icon using a credit card that he should really pay back this month, vs, buying with truck credit that he's got 6 months to pay off, ....we make out like these guys are dummies. But its a system that works for them, obviously.
And before we waggle our fingers of shame at the young auto techs, lots of my friends and family lease cars. They "buy" the car based on the payment, never haggling over the retail price of the vehicle, and may not even know the price. That isn't much different.
I'm so glad I'm not a tech who has to finance a ratchet.
Who the hell needs to finance a ratchet in the first place?
CGarage
Well-known member
I agree. Especially in the U.S.
The biggest problem I see with the industry of technicians in the U.S. is the young guys starting out do not have the resources for the tools.
It’s hard to be motivated to be professional when you do not own the equipment to be successful.
If I take a car to a dealership for service these days, big “IF”, regardless of the warranty, you best believe I know the technician working on it and I have evaluated him ahead of time.
I pick the nerds, not the cowboys, to do such work for me.
Do you make sure they have all Snap on?
Virtually anybody can save up and buy a $200 tool. A giant set of tools, perhaps not. But a ratchet? Come on. The remarks from the HF shills on this thread are getting more and more absurd.
I used to stop in to HF every now and then to try some of their offerings. Between the shills everywhere, the chitty machines (looking squarely at their poor excuse for a lathe), and the HF owner, I won’t be back.
CGarage
Well-known member
Of course. When I meet them, by way of introduction, I ask them to first lift their trouser legs so I can inspect their socks. If they are not Snap-On, I next them before the handshake. How did you not know this?
I also make sure they have the Snap-On keg with the beer and the Snap-On grill that looks like a tool box close by on hand.
Oh the irony.
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What do you use while saving your $200?
Why not just keep saving until you enough for a big box filled with SO tools?
$200 for just one tool is a lot of money for most people. Living is expensive and takes a lot of your paycheck each week just to exist.
As of July 29, 2024, the average annual pay of Entry Level Automotive Technician in the United States is $43,586. While Salary.com is seeing that Entry Level Automotive Technician salary in the US can go up to $55,082 or down to $31,852, but most earn between $37,444 and $49,603.
Entry Level Automotive Technician Salary | Salary.com
The average Entry Level Automotive Technician salary is $43,586 in the US. Salaries for the Entry Level Automotive Technician will be paid differently by location, company, and other factors.
www.salary.com
CGarage
Well-known member
It is my understanding that in the U.S., the way it works, if you are working at a car dealership in the service center, you start as a lube tech doing oil changes and lube jobs and work up from here. This is both scary and good. Scary because I think most problems occur with the basics, like oil changes, and it makes me shudder having someone inexperienced changing the oil on modern cars which have engines costing now more than ~ $25K US on average. Good because you do not need that many tools to be a lube tech. Mostly tools for oil change and rotating tires.
I think the U.S. automobile career path model is very flawed.
ETA: The lack of care shown by this new generation in the U.S. is shocking. These TikTok young adults are frightening in their crass attitude and general carelessness.
I don’t think the adults are doing well to sit them down and to explain to them the risks and potential cost consequences for their behavior.
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BlakeTheCarGuy
ALLIANCE MEMBER
This thread is starting to remind me of this customer we had a few years back who said he wouldn’t let anyone work on his truck without Snap-on tools because he wasn’t paying a high labor rate for us to use anything less. My boss basically told him where to put it and made sure he stood behind the glass door looking into the shop. He was quite angry but we made sure to use a Snap-on ratchet on his truck lol.
BlakeTheCarGuy
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Yes. Especially when you get someone incompetent doing it. My dealership finally let a tech go last week after over 20 come backs and more than 15 of them with blown engines or loose wheels.
CGarage
Well-known member
How did the service manager allow this to happen?????
Who paid for the damages?????
Scary times.
CGarage
Well-known member
And Blake, I commend you. You are the exception to the rule for your generation and in your career. I always see you on the forum trying to learn and make good choices to improve your work, tool collection, and knowledge. It always surprises me how many technicians only know two or three tool brands in the U.S., and have little interest in tools other than what is needed to do the job and get paid. That is another mistake of the industry in the U.S., I think.
neophyte
Well-known member
This seems appropriate.
The Law of Jante. (From Scandinavia)
“a code of conduct[1] originating in fiction and now used colloquially to denote a social attitude of disapproval towards expressions of individuality and personal success.”
“The ten rules state:
“The Janters who transgress this unwritten "law" are regarded with suspicion and some hostility, as it goes against the town's communal desire to preserve harmony, social stability and uniformity.”
“claims that the Law of Jante is taught in schools as more of a social code to encourage group behavior, and attempts to credit it with fueling Nordic countries' high happiness scores.”
“However, in Scandinavia, there have also been journalistic articles which link the Law of Jante to high suicide rates.”
en.m.wikipedia.org
“Supposedly the laws in the book were originally written as satire”
Most societies seem to operate to a certain extent by the laws of Jante.
The Law of Jante. (From Scandinavia)
“a code of conduct[1] originating in fiction and now used colloquially to denote a social attitude of disapproval towards expressions of individuality and personal success.”
“The ten rules state:
- You're not to think you are anything special.
- You're not to think you are as good as we are.
- You're not to think you are smarter than we are.
- You're not to imagine yourself better than weare.
- You're not to think you know more than we do.
- You're not to think you are more important than we are.
- You're not to think you are good at anything.
- You're not to laugh at us.
- You're not to think anyone cares about you.
- You're not to think you can teach us anything.”
“The Janters who transgress this unwritten "law" are regarded with suspicion and some hostility, as it goes against the town's communal desire to preserve harmony, social stability and uniformity.”
“claims that the Law of Jante is taught in schools as more of a social code to encourage group behavior, and attempts to credit it with fueling Nordic countries' high happiness scores.”
“However, in Scandinavia, there have also been journalistic articles which link the Law of Jante to high suicide rates.”
Law of Jante - Wikipedia
“Supposedly the laws in the book were originally written as satire”
Most societies seem to operate to a certain extent by the laws of Jante.
As an employee being screwed in an underpaying industry, why SHOULD they spend more for tools than they absolutely have to to get paid?
I would tell the broke tech newbie to go get that icon or gearwrench ratchet and save the payments for the big things.
Get the high dollar stuff when you've been at it a few years and can hopefully pay cash.
Might find you never need the higher dollar tools or might burn out of the industry or move up from wrenching sooner than expected.
Then again I hate debt with a passion after using it so willy nilly for several years just because I could.
It's soooooooo much better IMHO to not owe anyone anything.
If you're actually losing money by not doing into debt and would make more money with the debt than the debt itself costs, then go for it. But when the piper comes be ready to pay.
CGarage
Well-known member
Have you ever considered that, perhaps, your situation is a result of your attitude?
Blake is passionate about his career. He is a young man starting out and making the time investment to learn about his trade, much more so than the vast majority of his peers. I think this will pay him dividends in the future, if not already, because it would be easy to hire him due to the passion and his quest for continued growth and knowledge and improvement.
What's my situation? Or, what are you assuming my situation is?
BlakeTheCarGuy
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I don’t know why he wasn’t gotten rid of sooner. Especially when he tried blaming other people for his mistakes. And he had to pay the state of Tennessee over $3,000 for road clean up as he had a 4Runner blow up on the I-81, I-40 interchange and we also had to eat the tow back to Virginia and the rental car and replacement engine. They made him pay for that and then I don’t know about the rest I’m assuming our dealership paid all those.
And yes one of the big things I see with people my age is significant tool debt. We have this 21 year old just moved to the line back in April from lube tech who is over $30k in debt wirh Snap-on alone. It kills me and I tried warning him but I can’t worry about other people so I just let it go.
Exactly. It would take years for a new guy to save up enough for ratchets and the sockets to use with them.
Me too, brother. Not sure where you are in life's amazing journey. I'm watching my 3, 20-something children go through it. My money aside, they blow everything they make. One lives in an apartment with his girlfriend. Its VERY tough to make ends meet. He's got an entry level factory job. A lot of other young people I know have so much debt, they feel defeated, no way they will ever pay it back so they don't even try to save to double up on payments.
For folks saying techs should "just save up and pay cash for tools", thats exactly like Marie Antoinette's response "let them eat cake" (if they have no bread). Completely out of touch with reality. All of our (american) kids are in debt. The kids who have no debt are said to be "priviledged" and are looked down upon in some circles. No interest, little money down, is an amazing deal for auto techs. Think of all the trades people who don't have anything like that.
For non US members, remember, US companies rarely supply tools. In Europe I think its far more common for companies to supply new people with company provided tools.
A mechanic working for a company is held financially responsible and required to pay all those costs? I find that difficult to believe that is legal.
BlakeTheCarGuy
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I’m not sure the specifics. That’s just what I heard. He never complained about having to pay for it so I don’t know. Maybe they were just saying that to make it sound good or something.
The company should be responsible for the work of the employees?
BlakeTheCarGuy
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Totally agree. I think it’s just hearsay of having him pay for it. I don’t know I just heard he did but all the conversations were behind closed doors that I wasn’t a part of thankfully. At least he didn’t have any Snap-on debt though
.I’d love to. But I’m saving my money to buy a 1/4” drive flex head soft grip SO ratchet
CGarage
Well-known member
Your posts in this thread show advocacy for the bottom feeder and the lowest common denominator. This seems quite evident, as opposed to supporting those striving for and attempting to be an achiever.
Really? You haven't been reading my posts at all then.
CGarage
Well-known member
Totally agree. I think it’s just hearsay of having him pay for it. I don’t know I just heard he did but all the conversations were behind closed doors that I wasn’t a part of thankfully. At least he didn’t have any Snap-on debt though
I would have fired the service manager and the shop foreman, in addition. The service manager for failing to adequately determine the capabilities and skills of the new hire. The shop foreman for failure to manage the work flow of the new hire and the lack of quality control prior to the vehicles/work was being released to the customer. This is inexcusable on multiple levels. And the worst part, the problem occurred repeatedly, over and over again.
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