Why does Snap-On continuously make people rage?

[Boogerman]

lol, lots of people don't have the knack for mechanical things... that is why they need something shinny like Slap-on wrenches to make them feel better.

Or they need to ridicule and name call other peoples choices, to somehow make themselves feel superior....

Why can't you be happy with your own choices, and let others make their choices without putting them down?

I submit that there's almost no inverse correlation between those buying full polish snap-on ( presume that's what your name calling was referring to) and their knack for mechanical things. Actually, because of the bias of professional mechanics and higher end manufacturing facilities to use better tools, I'd guess there's at least a slightly positive correlation, not an inverse one!

jealous comments like this are exactly what the thread originally inquired about.

 

[AEAdam]

Torque wrench on a caliper bolt?
If you can’t tell by feel you’re getting close to the correct torque on smaller fasteners you probably should let someone else do your wrenching.

Who said anything about smaller fasteners? Do you NOT torque caliper bolts? Land Rover Discovery are 175-275nm depending on the model year. Those are REALLY big 12pt bolts with 21mm heads.

Have to ask: How many brake jobs have you done and in what US state are those vehicles operating?

 

[dchawk81]

I only torque the things that would get me sued are provable in court.

 

[AEAdam]

lol, lots of people don't have the knack for mechanical things... that is why they need something shinny like Slap-on wrenches to make them feel better.

unsubscribe. Seriously. It's a tool discussion forum. Go away. The grown ups are talking.

 

[Omnirod]

Snap-On doesn't make me rage, however they do annoy the heck out of me. They aren't the be all and end all of tools anymore. There are lots of great options out there that cost significanly less. Well I lied. They do make me rage when they hook a young apprentice into a mountain of debt for stuff they don't really need.

 

[dogdog]

Or they need to ridicule and name call other peoples choices, to somehow make themselves feel superior....

Why can't you be happy with your own choices, and let others make their choices without putting them down?

I submit that there's almost no inverse correlation between those buying full polish snap-on ( presume that's what your name calling was referring to) and their knack for mechanical things. Actually, because of the bias of professional mechanics and higher end manufacturing facilities to use better tools, I'd guess there's at least a slightly positive correlation, not an inverse one!

jealous comments like this are exactly what the thread originally inquired about.

No body is jealous about any snap on users that is on their high horses. But I am guessing you don’t like people pointing out facts well.

 

[JeepYJ]

Who said anything about smaller fasteners? Do you NOT torque caliper bolts? Land Rover Discovery are 175-275nm depending on the model year. Those are REALLY big 12pt bolts with 21mm heads.

Have to ask: How many brake jobs have you done and in what US state are those vehicles operating?

Those appear to be M12 bolts? I wouldn’t consider those to be REALLY big, maybe good sized for automotive applications. Bolt torque is determined by diameter and thread pitch. If you look at a bolt you should have a good idea what kind of torque specs are necessary. And you should have a good idea how much force you can apply with different tools- 3/8” drive ratchet, box end wrench, 1/2” drive 36” breaker bar, etc.
You may be shocked to learn that whole lot of nuts and bolts don’t see a torque wrench from the tech when they’re reassembling your vehicle during repairs.
Oh yeah, I’ve done probably thousands of brake jobs over the years. Some without a torque wrench /gasp!/!

 

[mudflap]

I didn’t read anyone bashing anything.

The reality is, maybe because Snap On is regarded so highly, or maybe because you can’t simply drive to a store to buy Snap On tools, they fetch high prices second hand. Also true is that models don’t change much. So flankdrive + wrenches I bought for $200 10 years ago are currently retailing for over $400. So I could literally sell my tools for what I paid for them. Forget about depreciation. Few of my SO tools have depreciated.

The reason this subject came up is some folks claimed Snap On tools to be bad choices financially when decent tools can be had for much less money. So the argument is, how much does it cost you to work on a car? We think only in terms of start up cost/initial purchase price. We never (unless I bring it up) discuss cost avoidance, value of our time, aggravation (not that aggravation is necessarily avoidable by spending more on tools). I hope we can agree, our view of tool cost is myopic and sophomoric.

To have a grown up discussion about tool costs, we need to discuss further what we're doing with them, how long we will own them, how much use we get, how we estimate the value of our personal time etc. Just as one would with any business expense.

I think it’s fair to say:

• we shouldn't be so certain of the financial superiority of a tool purchase. Cheap tools could be cheap, or they could be expensive. Expensive tools could be really cheap.
• the sweeping generalities, example: "all snap on owners are....", "People buy Snap On tools because...." are inaccurate, & unhelpful nonsense. It's stereotyping and prejudice as wrong as any other.

This is true.. I bought my SO/MAC tools over thirty yrs ago... so they don't owe me anything. I could probably at least break even if i sold them now. I have a 5 gal bucket full of worn out SO/MAC that probably could have been warrantied, but i consider pliers, screwdrivers, etc to be "consumables".. so i just bought new along the way. Most of the hard line tools in my box at work now are Carlyle. I'm in a supervisory position now, so my tools dont get beat on every day . I can kind of pick and choose the gravy work i want to do now, like brake jobs and oil changes on County patrol cars and let the kids put clutches in the DT 466 dump trucks. What will a $130.00 set Carlyle wrenches be worth 30yrs from now.. ? Maybe nothing, making them more expensive than a $400.00 set of SO wrenches. Your point is well thought out..

 

[M635_Guy]

I didn’t read anyone bashing anything.

The reality is, maybe because Snap On is regarded so highly, or maybe because you can’t simply drive to a store to buy Snap On tools, they fetch high prices second hand. Also true is that models don’t change much. So flankdrive + wrenches I bought for $200 10 years ago are currently retailing for over $400. So I could literally sell my tools for what I paid for them. Forget about depreciation. Few of my SO tools have depreciated.

The reason this subject came up is some folks claimed Snap On tools to be bad choices financially when decent tools can be had for much less money. So the argument is, how much does it cost you to work on a car? We think only in terms of start up cost/initial purchase price. We never (unless I bring it up) discuss cost avoidance, value of our time, aggravation (not that aggravation is necessarily avoidable by spending more on tools). I hope we can agree, our view of tool cost is myopic and sophomoric.

To have a grown up discussion about tool costs, we need to discuss further what we're doing with them, how long we will own them, how much use we get, how we estimate the value of our personal time etc. Just as one would with any business expense.

I think it’s fair to say:

• we shouldn't be so certain of the financial superiority of a tool purchase. Cheap tools could be cheap, or they could be expensive. Expensive tools could be really cheap.
• the sweeping generalities, example: "all snap on owners are....", "People buy Snap On tools because...." are inaccurate, & unhelpful nonsense. It's stereotyping and prejudice as wrong as any other.

That's circular logic. Years ago I was tool-limited in terms of what I could successfully do - I had a lot of super-cheap or very old tools that didn't help me out very much.

I've bought better tools, and a lot more of them, and these days I'm 100% confident that my tools are up to anything I'm likely to tackle and will do the job properly.

I've got a lot of HF Icon, but I also have a fair bit of Snap On and SK. There are differences, but none that are meaningful in terms of the outcome.

If you're trying to make a financial argument for SO, especially for a home gamer, it's a losing argument.

You might ask why I have anything Snap On, and my answer is I've mainly given them to myself as gifts here and there. 20 years ago I wouldn't have done it - I prioritized my retirement savings and money for travel/vacations - but now that I'm (hopefully) 5 or 6 years from retirement, I've splurged here and there.

If you're saying "The money you're saving by doing it yourself justifies getting the best." then that's just a rationalization. A decent one, but for me that kind of logic is what I've used to get my QuickJack, safer spring compressors, etc. I can't stretch to the price of a box full of SO wrenches, toque wrenches, sockets, etc. But that's just me.

I'm 100% definitely not jealous of anyone else's tools, nor do I particularly care what someone thinks of mine.

 

[dchawk81]

This thread turned dumb and it wasn't even me that did it. I'm disappointed.

 

[JeepYJ]

If you're saying "The money you're saving by doing it yourself justifies getting the best." then that's just a rationalization.

I guess you could also rationalize that either leading or buying new vehicles every 2-3 years is less expensive than buying a big SO box filled with SO tools along with a lift

 

[Boogerman]

Back to the original question: Why do people have to disparage about someone else's choice of tools? Why does it matter to them? And why the same old tired cliche's and stereotypes to justify belittling others?

lol so snap on bois don’t like people pointing out facts

No body is jealous about any snap on users that is on their high horses. But I am guessing you don’t like people pointing out facts well.

Snap-On doesn't make me rage, however they do annoy the heck out of me. They aren't the be all and end all of tools anymore. There are lots of great options out there that cost significanly less. Well I lied. They do make me rage when they hook a young apprentice into a mountain of debt for stuff they don't really need.

 

[dchawk81]

I didn’t read anyone bashing anything.

The reality is, maybe because Snap On is regarded so highly, or maybe because you can’t simply drive to a store to buy Snap On tools, they fetch high prices second hand. Also true is that models don’t change much. So flankdrive + wrenches I bought for $200 10 years ago are currently retailing for over $400. So I could literally sell my tools for what I paid for them. Forget about depreciation. Few of my SO tools have depreciated.

The reason this subject came up is some folks claimed Snap On tools to be bad choices financially when decent tools can be had for much less money. So the argument is, how much does it cost you to work on a car? We think only in terms of start up cost/initial purchase price. We never (unless I bring it up) discuss cost avoidance, value of our time, aggravation (not that aggravation is necessarily avoidable by spending more on tools). I hope we can agree, our view of tool cost is myopic and sophomoric.

To have a grown up discussion about tool costs, we need to discuss further what we're doing with them, how long we will own them, how much use we get, how we estimate the value of our personal time etc. Just as one would with any business expense.

I think it’s fair to say:

• we shouldn't be so certain of the financial superiority of a tool purchase. Cheap tools could be cheap, or they could be expensive. Expensive tools could be really cheap.
• the sweeping generalities, example: "all snap on owners are....", "People buy Snap On tools because...." are inaccurate, & unhelpful nonsense. It's stereotyping and prejudice as wrong as any other.

If there was a Snap On store next to the Harbor Freight store I would probably have equal amounts of both. I'm a pragmatist not a loyalist.

 

[dogdog]

Back to the original question: Why do people have to disparage about someone else's choice of tools? Why does it matter to them? And why the same old tired cliche's and stereotypes to justify belittling others?

It’s the same for snap on fan bois right why snap on tool users think they are better than everyone else’s choice of HF or Kobalt or craftsman tools? Programmed mentality that can’t accept criticism but have no problem dishing out. Like that pretty boy Daemon. Typical self center mentality.

 

[mudflap]

Back to the original question: Why do people have to disparage about someone else's choice of tools? Why does it matter to them? And why the same old tired cliche's and stereotypes to justify belittling others?

I don't tool shame anybody. But i do hate to see the kids coming in from the tech schools bury themselves in tool truck debt when there is no reason to. I was there.. i lived on roman noodles and put off buying a house, etc because i had tool truck debt. Any old chrome slingers here fell in the same trap when you were starting out..? We didnt have options like GW and Carlyle. It was either the good tool truck tools, or Crapsman. I'm not saying don't buy a few "vanity" tools once in a while.. Work the SO guy for a free hat or calendar...

 

[blown94conv]

It’s the same for snap on fan bois right why snap on tool users think they are better than everyone else’s choice of HF or Kobalt or craftsman tools? Programmed mentality that can’t accept criticism but have no problem dishing out. Like that pretty boy Daemon. Typical self center mentality.

It’s the same for “cheap tool fan bios” right why “cheap tool fan bios” think they are better then everyone else‘s choice of Snap on or Mac or Matco tools? Programmed mentality that can’t accept criticism but have no problem dishing it out. Like that pretty boy dog dog. Typical self center mentality.

See what I did there? Pretty awesome, right?

 

[blown94conv]

I don't tool shame anybody. But i do hate to see the kids coming in from the tech schools bury themselves in tool truck debt when there is no reason to. I was there.. i lived on roman noodles and put off buying a house, etc because i had tool truck debt. Any old chrome slingers here fell in the same trap when you were starting out..? We didnt have options like GW and Carlyle. It was either the good tool truck tools, or Crapsman. I'm not saying don't buy a few "vanity" tools once in a while.. Work the SO guy for a free hat or calendar...

And watching a kid go into debt for $150,000 in college debt to get a degree in German Polka history is just as stupid.


At least you got a calendar, that kid didn’t get anything.

 

[dogdog]

It’s the same for “cheap tool fan bios” right why “cheap tool fan bios” think they are better then everyone else‘s choice of Snap on or Mac or Matco tools? Programmed mentality that can’t accept criticism but have no problem dishing it out. Like that pretty boy dog dog. Typical self center mentality.

See what I did there? Pretty awesome, right?

As long as you can take what you dish out. I have no problems with cheap tools as long as it get the job done **Or spending on an expensive tool to get the job done. . The differences is I don’t ride the high horses. Names doesn’t do much as long as it is factual.


*** factual means it’s not the claim that it is true just because you just think about it

 

[m6z]

lol. I'm amazed this thread is still going.

Buy whatever tools you want and/or need.

 

[Boogerman]

​

As long as you can take what you dish out. I have no problems with cheap tools as long as it get the job done. The differences is I don’t ride the high horses. Names doesn’t do much as long as it is factual.

Why not just skip the stupid **** altogether?

It's just like my brother-in-law last time I saw him. I had just traded pickups; I arrived and was getting out of the truck and he came over and said "have you been found on the road dead yet? we got some of these pieces of **** at work and they don't run good, was running one hard the other day and it got a flat tire, and they're useless and gutless and uncomfortable and ugly. glad I thought to buy a pre-computer truck a couple of months ago when the motor blew on my old one. last two trucks have had bad motors that blew after a few months, this one is better, i just worked on it this morning and it's running pretty good. still be running when your pos is made back into cheap china dishwashers."

I proceeded to help my sister out by hauling thirty-some loads of stuff; he managed to get one load (1/3 of the size, due to the capacity of the trucks) in the same time; the rest of the time he was trying to work on it to keep it running enough to get to work. Somehow, putting down my truck didn't make his run any better.

See nothing factual about denigrating people that have good tools as "not having a knack for mechanical things".

 

[Boogerman]

duplicate post, deleted

 

[dogdog]

​

Why not just skip the stupid **** altogether?

It's just like my brother-in-law last time I saw him. I had just traded pickups; I arrived and was getting out of the truck and he came over and said "have you been found on the road dead yet? we got some of these pieces of **** at work and they don't run good, was running one hard the other day and it got a flat tire, and they're useless and gutless and uncomfortable and ugly. glad I thought to buy a pre-computer truck a couple of months ago when the motor blew on my old one. last two trucks have had bad motors that blew after a few months, this one is better, i just worked on it this morning and it's running pretty good. still be running when your pos is made back into cheap china dishwashers."

I proceeded to help my sister out by hauling thirty-some loads of stuff; he managed to get one load (1/3 of the size, due to the capacity of the trucks) in the same time; the rest of the time he was trying to work on it to keep it running enough to get to work. Somehow, putting down my truck didn't make his run any better.

See nothing factual about denigrating people that have good tools as "not having a knack for mechanical things".

You lost me there, Seems like you have some personal issues.

 

[Omnirod]

Back to the original question: Why do people have to disparage about someone else's choice of tools? Why does it matter to them? And why the same old tired cliche's and stereotypes to justify belittling others?

I don't care what journeymen buy. I care what my apprentices buy.

 

[dchawk81]

And watching a kid go into debt for $150,000 in college debt to get a degree in German Polka history is just as stupid.


At least you got a calendar, that kid didn’t get anything.

Come on now. It's gender studies. Or basket weaving.

 

[Boogerman]

You get the last word.

You lost me there, Seems like you have some personal issues.

 

[dogdog]

You get the last word.

​

Is that your last word ? Or demonstrating to me that you are one of those that can’t take what you dish out. So I don’t have to pondering about it to make it true.

 

[mudflap]

And watching a kid go into debt for $150,000 in college debt to get a degree in German Polka history is just as stupid.


At least you got a calendar, that kid didn’t get anything.

You can probably get a cushy Govt job with a German Polka degree. And i thought us taxpayers were paying off the student loan debt..? What happened to that plan. ? I was gonna sign up at Community College and get my basket weaving certs..

 

[AEAdam]

Snap-On doesn't make me rage, however they do annoy the heck out of me. They aren't the be all and end all of tools anymore. There are lots of great options out there that cost significanly less. Well I lied. They do make me rage when they hook a young apprentice into a mountain of debt for stuff they don't really need.

Snap On provides techs with 0% interest loans on pro grade tools. Having arguably the best tools in the industry means there's no second class or glass ceiling holding these kids back. Their tools will never limit their futures. I love that.

I think the "gotta have it now" culture in America is a problem. I'm sure we all know people with this problem who get in over their heads in whatever. I don't think we can blame the salesman for that, but those folks absolutely have my sympathy. I DO wish the salesman would ask "Are you sure?" New techs don't need brand new Epiqs they can't pay off. If that's what you are referring to, I agree.

PS:

My youngest son is taking CINEMA as an elective in college this semester. I took Peruvian Archeology when I was his age (engineering major). This wasn't us being dumb. We were forced to pay for classes we didn't need. That's the US university system and it's not like that in other countries.

All of my kids have friends who went off to college after high school, racked up $30-50k in debt in a single year and dropped out. They see them working retail etc. Some are really upset, feel like failures, parents are so disappointed. Some are depressed with (what they think is) life crippling debt.

This is the real world modern auto techs live in. If you ask me they are SO much better off than my kids are. They are learning what hard work is, learning to manage money. Using their brains and hands to figure stuff out and fix things. And they can sell their tools. I can't sell Peruvian Archeology.

 

[Hiball]

Who’s Winning?

 

[dogdog]

Who’s Winning?

that dependents on who is thinking about it harder.

 

[toddmorr]

Peruvian archeology??? Just think, there's a phD teaching that stuff that spent years studying it too.....jeez

 

[AEAdam]

Who’s Winning?

The people thinking maybe there are multiple right answers.

In a perfect world, I'd like to think someone at Snap On could have skimmed this, or is aware of the controversy that created this thread and may be thinking:

Maybe we need to think about the parlor tricks we use as marketing. What happens when other manufacturers make pliers that can pick up the raised edge of a US nickel? Is our marketing really highlighting features mechanics need? Is the Snap On corporation really reliant on a YouTuber spending his own money for test equipment to prove our tools are really better than Taiwan products? Could a TikTok video affect sales?

I'll also tell you who's not winning. The folks with the clever quips whose minds are made up. They are wasting their time here. I learn from you guys. If you aren't learning, you are shouting at the TV news.

You are a facts and data guy @Hiball. What do you think of this? I assume you know the back story.

 

[Boogerman]

Is that your last word ? Or demonstrating to me that you are one of those that can’t take what you dish out. So I don’t have to pondering about it to make it true.

I don't take bait.

 

[zendriver]

Who’s Winning?

We're not.

 

[mreisner]

No body is jealous about any snap on users that is on their high horses. But I am guessing you don’t like people pointing out facts well.

Yes we're all learning from somebody that can't even spell shiny correctly.

 

[dogdog]

Snap On provides techs with 0% interest loans on pro grade tools. Having arguably the best tools in the industry means there's no second class or glass ceiling holding these kids back. Their tools will never limit their futures. I love that. (1)

I think the "gotta have it now" culture in America is a problem. I'm sure we all know people with this problem who get in over their heads in whatever. I don't think we can blame the salesman for that, but those folks absolutely have my sympathy. I DO wish the salesman would ask "Are you sure?" New techs don't need brand new Epiqs they can't pay off. If that's what you are referring to, I agree.

PS:

My youngest son is taking CINEMA as an elective in college this semester. I took Peruvian Archeology when I was his age (engineering major). This wasn't us being dumb. We were forced to pay for classes we didn't need. That's the US university system and it's not like that in other countries. (2)

All of my kids have friends who went off to college after high school, racked up $30-50k in debt in a single year and dropped out. They see them working retail etc. Some are really upset, feel like failures, parents are so disappointed. Some are depressed with (what they think is) life crippling debt. (3)

This is the real world modern auto techs live in. If you ask me they are SO much better off than my kids are. They are learning what hard work is, learning to manage money. Using their brains and hands to figure stuff out and fix things. And they can sell their tools. I can't sell Peruvian Archeology.

(1)
Snap On or Craftsman heck even HF provided sort of loan or 0% interest for (only) fresh tech school kid graduates from a tech degree program (if you are trying to shill for snapon ). Having the best tool in the industry does not mean anything, that is the problem with people like you that feeds into kids, Thinking having the best tool in the industry is an automatic brain and skills upgrade like in those video games.

(2) having electives in college is to make you a better well rounded person, apparently that didn't happen, you could have choose other electives. Engineering Major means nothing if you don't get your PE license in most state. Most colleges / Universities goes by semester years for minimum of 8 credits and anything over it's not charge (should still be like that these days). if you elected to take only 8 credits per semester including your electives that is up to you and just whine about it. most people would have taken 10 or 12.

(3) Going to college is just like buying snapon tools, it's not for everyone. having a sets of snapon tool is not an automatic level up, same as going to college, you actually have to put some efforts into the school work. Rarely I see some one that can be drunk every day and not get fat and still get his degrees like my college mate undergraduate and master degree in EE, now a PHD in mathematics and economics. Or like my roommate that graduate Bio Engineer with a masters in EE and PE, now earns his money in finance (at least 5x more than the PHD). All of us paid off the debits and student loans after graduating with me taking 10 years. Overall a kid with a college degree starts off their caree/jobs earning lots more than a kid who doesn't, will there be any exceptions, sure.... I have friends who earns more just from having a high school degree but he have the knack to talk and make you work like catbert ..... Sounds like you are giving bad examples to justify your snap-on purchases. If I am a kid fresh off tech school.. would I invest in a full snapon 0 percent or not or buy something that would not lock me into slavery for a career that I might not like. Like that guy tried to move to a different company and find out his tool box he took the loan on was locked into this current company or something to that extend.

 

[dogdog]

Yes we're all learning from somebody that can't even spell shiny correctly.

awww mr spelling bee, does that make you feel better, now you can talk to you snapon in bed say the bad man who says ******* is bad for you can't spell shiny correctly. Make sure you give that ******* some hugs and kiss Ok ?

 

[Ryan]

I fully believe people that have time to argue over tool brands have no idea how to actually use them. And when they start slinging personal insults? They move from uneducated and inexperienced into ***** territory.