Why hasn't it been done?

[buckwheat_la]

So if anyone has seen some of my other threads, they know I am looking for a new set of tools to replace my Mastercraft set (which has become a donation to my shop). And as I have trolled the internet looking for information I had a epiphany; why hasn't there been a side by side comparison of tools done? I am not talking about a mechanic comparing shiny tools to others. I mean a strength test done using specially monitored pressure. Ie how much pressure does it take to bend a 1/2 inch inch wrench? What collapses/breaks first? Measure wiggle room on a socket placed on a nut? Etc

To be fair I did see a very good Ratchet test done, and it was very informative. Just surprised given all the opinions about tools from people that a company hasn't done a study/test to see how different brands hold up.

Or am I out to lunch in my thinking?

(my luck someone is going to make me look stupid and post that this is done yearly lol. If they do though there google skills are better than mine )

 

[bwringer]

I've seen a few of these strength tests. They're expensive and simply not all that useful.

If you're doing destructive testing, you have to test several samples to learn anything useful. When you break one sample of a ratchet, all you've shown is that particular ratchet's breaking strength. Testing several samples from different batches will start to give you an idea of the manufacturer's quality control.

Obviously, this gets VERY expensive fast. And then the manufacturers change things constantly so any test results are quickly irrelevant.

Failure strength only gives you one dimension of quality, and not one that's relevant to daily use. The strongest ratchet or socket in the world is useless if it's too bulky to fit where it's needed. Same for "wiggle room", etc. Measuring wiggle room is not all that relevant since some very strong and useful designs ("flank drive" and similar) depend on a bit of wiggle room.

Overall, there are lots of tool reviews out there, and there are lots of objective and subjective features that are more relevant to daily use than failure strength.

Any of the midline brands and a surprising number of the cheap brands will be plenty strong for whatever use and abuse you have in mind. So the "best" tool for you often depends on preferences -- what do you find comfortable? Do you prefer the high tooth count ratchets? Are the numbers on the sockets easy to read? Soft or hard handle? Availability of replacements if needed? Knurling?

One specific example of something many people don't consider when looking at sockets is lead-in -- how deep is the tapered part of the socket before it grips the fastener? Even some very high-end sockets have a lot of lead-in, which can cause problems on shallow or very tight fasteners.

 

[woody6904]

Like bwringer said, if buying tools based strictly off of a strength test, we would have clubs for tools when a toothpick will do the job or in a tight spot the toothpick is the only tool that will do the job. Take for example a Wright 3430 ratchet.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001YJJL88/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Under a strength test, this ratchet would probably be one of the first 3/8's ratchets to fail. But under some circumstances, this ratchet is invaluable.

 

[bcradio]

I've seen a few of these strength tests. They're expensive and simply not all that useful.

If you're doing destructive testing, you have to test several samples to learn anything useful. When you break one sample of a ratchet, all you've shown is that particular ratchet's breaking strength. Testing several samples from different batches will start to give you an idea of the manufacturer's quality control.

Obviously, this gets VERY expensive fast. And then the manufacturers change things constantly so any test results are quickly irrelevant.

Failure strength only gives you one dimension of quality, and not one that's relevant to daily use. The strongest ratchet or socket in the world is useless if it's too bulky to fit where it's needed. Same for "wiggle room", etc. Measuring wiggle room is not all that relevant since some very strong and useful designs ("flank drive" and similar) depend on a bit of wiggle room.

Overall, there are lots of tool reviews out there, and there are lots of objective and subjective features that are more relevant to daily use than failure strength.

Any of the midline brands and a surprising number of the cheap brands will be plenty strong for whatever use and abuse you have in mind. So the "best" tool for you often depends on preferences -- what do you find comfortable? Do you prefer the high tooth count ratchets? Are the numbers on the sockets easy to read? Soft or hard handle? Availability of replacements if needed? Knurling?

One specific example of something many people don't consider when looking at sockets is lead-in -- how deep is the tapered part of the socket before it grips the fastener? Even some very high-end sockets have a lot of lead-in, which can cause problems on shallow or very tight fasteners.

Couldn't have said it better.

 

[Stooge]

there has been, maybe not side by side comparisons like you are thinking, but basically every company that produces a tool, or literally anything being sold, has had atleast the material that the product is made from tested to the point of catastrophic failure, and generally tested regularly in different tensile, compression, stroke, torque or fatigue testing frames. the company I work for has been making these types of testing machines for 70years so i see a lot of customers who buy from us as well as different testing houses who buy the frames and have these companies as customers and do the testing for them.

 

[gungatim]

someone in Asia posted a 13mm wrench comparison, and there've been ratchet and breaker bar comparo's. problem is there is no real standard, as in how strong is strong enough? even a $3 cheap 40 pc. socket set sold at the gas station will work, more important is longevity, comfort, and a whole bunch of personal subjective measures you may or may not care about. maybe if someone had a Rockwell tester handy they could do hardness tests (can you do that on chrome? probably not?), and measure wrench/socket size tolerances?

seems like every other feature is debated on here endlessly...

 

[trainer]

youtube.

Beware though, tool quality is a very subjective and often emotional topic

Nothing really wrong with mastercraft hand tools though.
Lifetime warranty and deep discounts when on sale.
They are definitely comparable to any other store brand

 

[buckwheat_la]

I do understand the subjectivity of such a test. And am fully aware that the margin for use on most tools is pretty small ie a $5 wrench and a $50 wrench both will do the same thing adequately.

That being said, in a day and age where we test/compare (and in some cases give awards) things like cars, heavy equipment, computers, toys, bbq's, electric/air tools etc.... Just surprised that no one really does hand tools such as wrenches and sockets.....

 

[Sine Swept]

I'm sure if some of the lesser branded ratchets were treated to a life of Super Lube, they would probably feel a bit better in hand.

 

[Jazz1]

I found if a tool is brand stamped its generally a good tool. The Mastercraft are good quality and they are constantly offered at huge discounts along with over the counter warranty. Does not get any better. Only wrench I ever had fail was a no name brand, the box end of a 10mm rounded out.

 

[ez-duzit]

...why hasn't there been a side by side comparison of tools done?...a strength test done using specially monitored pressure...

Because NO ONE buys tools this way.

 

[malykaii]

Have you not searched? Its been done by numerous people right here on g.j. Lolz search.

Overall Strenght and Endurance Test:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=201468&showall=1

Socket Clearance Tests:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73245&highlight=socket+contacts+points

 

[buckwheat_la]

Have you not searched? Its been done by numerous people right here on g.j. Lolz search.

Overall Strenght and Endurance Test:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=201468&showall=1

Socket Clearance Tests:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73245&highlight=socket+contacts+points

I enjoyed reading these threads, and really you are proving my point. Look how much interest was generated with a amateur conducting the tests. All I am saying is that there is very little actual comparative testing done between brands. Anyways, I will let this thread die

 

[Rico.]

I've seen a few of these strength tests. They're expensive and simply not all that useful.

If you're doing destructive testing, you have to test several samples to learn anything useful. When you break one sample of a ratchet, all you've shown is that particular ratchet's breaking strength. Testing several samples from different batches will start to give you an idea of the manufacturer's quality control.

Obviously, this gets VERY expensive fast. And then the manufacturers change things constantly so any test results are quickly irrelevant.

Failure strength only gives you one dimension of quality, and not one that's relevant to daily use. The strongest ratchet or socket in the world is useless if it's too bulky to fit where it's needed. Same for "wiggle room", etc. Measuring wiggle room is not all that relevant since some very strong and useful designs ("flank drive" and similar) depend on a bit of wiggle room.

Overall, there are lots of tool reviews out there, and there are lots of objective and subjective features that are more relevant to daily use than failure strength.

Any of the midline brands and a surprising number of the cheap brands will be plenty strong for whatever use and abuse you have in mind. So the "best" tool for you often depends on preferences -- what do you find comfortable? Do you prefer the high tooth count ratchets? Are the numbers on the sockets easy to read? Soft or hard handle? Availability of replacements if needed? Knurling?

One specific example of something many people don't consider when looking at sockets is lead-in -- how deep is the tapered part of the socket before it grips the fastener? Even some very high-end sockets have a lot of lead-in, which can cause problems on shallow or very tight fasteners.

Couldn't have said it better.

I don't think anyone could have....

 

[four.cycle]

[QUOTE="buckwheat_la]"...why hasn't there been a side by side comparison of tools done?"[/QUOTE]

Because there would be little point in doing so.

Years ago, I asked an old family friend a question. The subject didn't have anything to do with tools, but that's not really important.
He pondered my question for a bit, and then looked at me through his Coke-bottle glasses with a grin and said "Some men will believe what they want to believe, regardless of the facts put in front of them."

The almost religious fervor with which some brands of tools are supported here is at times kind of comical, in a way. It's the same old "Chevy vs. Ford" or "Broncos vs. Raiders" or "Jif vs Skippy" argument: nothing is ever resolved, and in the end the bottom line really comes down more to personal preference when all factors are taken into consideration. (I can already hear the wheels starting to buzz inside the heads of some of the guys reading this now.)

So, there would be little point in doing any sort of "test" based on tensile strength, or Rockwell hardness, or any other metric that could be used to measure and/or compare: I'm still going to tell you that the #2875 Indestro 1/4" drive ratchet is the finest of its kind, and yes, I also happen to own 1/4" drive ratchets made by Snap-on, Thorsen, Giller, Herbrand, Craftsman, S-K, KAL, Proamerica, JS Technologies, and a few others.
So compare all you want- I have no intention of changing my mind.

 

[malykaii]

In a day and age where we test/compare (and in some cases give awards) things like cars, heavy equipment, computers, toys, bbq's, electric/air tools etc.... Just surprised that no one really does hand tools such as wrenches and sockets.....

Some things are easier to compare than others. Best sports car, which ones the fastest. Best econobox, which ones most fuel efficient. Follow?
Tools are very subjective. Try: Cutest Hatchback or Most Comfortable Luxury Car. Now how and why do you measure that.

I enjoyed reading these threads, and really you are proving my point. Look how much interest was generated with a amateur conducting the tests.

Your forgetting that this intrest was generated on g.j. Who on earth reads g.j. anyway? It's like getting recognition on a table tennis forum... And last I checked no one knew ping pong had another name let alone was taken seriously.
I had a tool route for a year. Of the hundreds of customers I've encountered, none ever heard of Garage Journal, German or Japanese tools, or anything we discuss here. I only ever had one person question COO. Everyone else just wanted their tools to work. No enthusiasm.

All I am saying is that there is very little actual comparative testing done between brands.

I agree 100% The level,of testing and reviewing of products doesn't compare to that of tools. However, why should it? No one is going to read it anyway, so why should anyone flip the cost.
Hazet did exactly what you ask... They compared a bunch of German wrenches on some strength tests. Obviously Hazet concluded Hazet make the best wrench. (lol) So this review was clearly a marketing scheme and no one read it or cared. Plus, the 13mm wrench thread concluded that stahlwille was superior to Hazet.

 

[buckwheat_la]

I agree 100% The level,of testing and reviewing of products doesn't compare to that of tools. However, why should it? No one is going to read it anyway, so why should anyone flip the cost.
Hazet did exactly what you ask... They compared a bunch of German wrenches on some strength tests. Obviously Hazet concluded Hazet make the best wrench. (lol) So this review was clearly a marketing scheme and no one read it or cared. Plus, the 13mm wrench thread concluded that stahlwille was superior to Hazet.

So everyones comment seems to be, what is the point? The point is simply this, you all take by word of mouth that certain brands are the best and all of that is strictly from reputation and work of mouth (which definitely has merit), but how would you feel if there was some testing that proved that (as a example), that GEARWRENCH when compared directly to MAC had a stronger metal, and that GEARWRENCH was more resistant to bending, etc. Would that change your opinion? Or maybe that a Protool wrench preforms (and fails) the same as a SnapOn when under similar extreme conditions, would you pay the $500+ for the SnapOn vs the $50 for Protool?

Anyways, I am not bumping this thread anymore, I just thought it was interesting that no one has ever done a yearly test to compare lines of tools.

 

[jallyn]

As an engineer I find your question interesting. There are standards for wrench and ratchet strength (and other things) put out by ANSI. Here is a good Garage Journal thread: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=95625

Basically any manufacturer can have their tools tested against the ANSI standards. However, there are things like rusted fasteners, damaged fasteners, close-quarters, over-torqued fasteners, the list goes on, that are beyond standard operating conditions. So passing an ANSI lab test is one thing, the real world is entirely different and more challenging.

I find research here on the Garage Journal, reading un-paid reviews (Amazon.com, etc.), word of mouth, and our own experience with different brands will lead us in the right direction. There is no magic list, breaking strength rating, or other short-cut. We all have to do our homework to decide what is the best tool, at the price-point we can afford, for what WE plan to do with it. Nobody can answer that question for us as we have unique needs, resources, and expectations for our tools.

In economic terms we are seeking a tool whose net present value is greater than the cost. For example, we buy a wrench for $10 that is worth $20 to us over the lifetime of the tool. We don't know the future, so we have to gather lots of data and infer how tools may perform for us. We could have bought a $5 wrench, but after a few years of sometimes troubling service it fails and only delivered $5 of worth. Then we buy the better wrench and have lost $5. Or we didn't need a high quality wrench that much and it was fine. Only the individual knows best his needs, desires, etc. OK, done rambling.

 

[G_P]

Wrenches and sockets need a bit of "wiggle room" since not all fasteners are perfectly sized. A tool with too little "wiggle room" will not fit fasteners that are on the high end of what is acceptable in terms of head size.
Rusted fasteners also requires tools to be a little loose.