Why hate Mac but not Matco

[ngk22r]

Ok so this convo sorta drifted from the original thing I stated was in reference to a comment that people do not like MAC tools because they rebadge other tool makers tools with their logo. I just pointed out that Matco is also guilty of this "tool sin".

And yes Snap-on has the Blue-point and Williams, but Snap-on owns Blue-point, Williams, Sun, Bahco, and so on. The point I was making is that Snap-on owns these companies and they make the call on the smaller companies. Matco is owned by Danaher and so Matco tools is grouped with all the other tool companies that Danaher owns. Atleast with Snap-on there is originality (not saying Matco has not originality to them at all) when it comes to buying their tools. I have not yet seen a 72/80 tooth Williams ratchet yet. Snap-on makes the call as to when its other divisions get what technology if you catch my drift.

That being said if you want the top of the line from the Snap-on corp. you go to Snap-on and the price can be justified. With Matco for the most part, you can get the same tool for far less money BRAND NEW from gearwrench, craftsman, otc, etc...

And to top it all off, most of Matco's (and some of cornwells) tools cost more than Snap-on. I could maybe understand the pricing but not when the same tool is at sears for less.

As far as personal choice of what tool you want is all on the person and I can respect the person chosing the tool that works best for them, not everyone is for Snap-on, and not everyone is for Matco, all good. I am not talking about quality but pricing.

 

[mikevango]

I just hate all tool companies.

 

[jamie640]

MAC and snap-on both have certain china shipping junk tools with their logo on them. The key is, you have to look at the tool before you buy it.
They both have good qualities compared to each other though..
Example: Mac hex sockets, are wayy stronger than snap-on.
Snap on ratchets are better than MAC. ect.

 

[Spam16v]

I thought this forum was all about going to the pawn shop and collecting as many broken ratchets as humanly possible and posting pics of 50+ obsolete 3/8" raised panel ratchets that aren't rebuildable?

 

[mrholeshot]

As a once very loyal Mac tool buyer I tuned them loose after being sold a bunch of Taiwan tools without discloseure they had moved offshore. Upon closer inspection and use of said tools and finding the quality (or lack of it) I asked my dealer why he didn't tell me he was selling me ****. His reply was "It has the same warranty" Sorry not good enough. End of my dealings with Mac. My matco experiance has always been a bit limited because we just never had a decent dealers. The tools I did buy the Chrome comes off at an alarming rate so my Matco stuff is just down to a few sets of sockets, few screwdrivers and wrenches. Despite my beleif that Snap-On is hiding the COO ot part or all of the Dual80 ratchets the quality is still there no matter where they are built. I can't bash Matco because my experiance with them isn't vast enough to form a really good or bad opinion of them. Getting totally screwed over by MAC from Taiwan screwdrivers to warranty my USA tools with inferior Chicom just really burns my ***. I have a lot of Mac tools, I like them but I now shudder at the thought of having one warrantied. Mac has been owned by Stanley for over 30 years. About 10 years ago they decided to start hosing the dealers a bunch of them sued MAC. Then about 2005 the Top Secret Chicom crappy tools started hitting the streets. MAC preyed on the ignorance of long time buyers thinking they wouldn't notice and wouldn't care. I fear that Snap-On is headed down the same path. Snap-On is a great company with the most loyal customer base in the automotive tool market. With what they charge there is no reason that any Snap-On hand tool being sold in the US not be made in the US and Marked USA. I guess those of us who got hosed by MAC it's just Dejavu

 

[Spam16v]

I bought a mac side cabinet mainly to put my aerosol cans in (dealership necessity), no lock or door retention system installed... uhm, wtf? little baggies with Stanley on them, strait up home depot garbage to lock and hold the door shut while unlocked... great....

 

[bimmer630]

I pretty much lost interest in MAC tools when I saw my truck guy selling These Titan pieces of **** with red handles and MAC stampings on them http://media.cygnus.com/files/cygnu...0/3piecelongflexheadratchetsetno_10102203.png

 

[TheGrooveking]

I have hardly any Matco but even i'm not going to claim their tools are the same as what is offered in the Craftsman/GW catalog. Anyone with two eyes and a brain can see that plain as day that there are differences in things like socket/ratchet/wrench design and chrome quality by simply picking up the products and comparing them.

You could just as easily be saying that all Stanley and Proto tools are the same as MAC.

You need to get on a Matco truck more often, many tools lately from Matco are Gearwrench and are stamped as Matco. You will not find Made in Taiwan or China on the tools or the packaging, yet if you call Matco customer service, they'll tell you, so you can then realize you just paid 250% going rate for Matco.

Also Matco doesn't deal on their boxes from what I can tell.

TheGrooveking

 

[wchamberlain]

Ok as a consumer of tools.........Here is the bootm line!!!!!!!!!

Snap On for the most part is made in USA, not all of them mind you........I'm convinced that the new quick releases are Imported........Not trying to flame on people at all.

Matco is owned by Danahar, which owns alot of tool companies, so rebranding rebadging is done just like Snap On

Mac is owned by Stanley, and they have moved alot of their production overseas, to quote Mr Holeshot, made in taiwan, warranty is still the same, not buying it. I understand your feelings on the Mac issue.

Most people are Snap On fanboys, leg humpers, quality tools, some rebranding, a little overpriced IMO

Matco tools do rebranding, I still like the quality fo them though!!!!!!!

Mac, alot of foreign production, still a quality tool!!!!!!!!

 

[DrkMtnDew]

I pretty much lost interest in MAC tools when I saw my truck guy selling These Titan pieces of **** with red handles and MAC stampings on them http://media.cygnus.com/files/cygnu...0/3piecelongflexheadratchetsetno_10102203.png

i actually like those titan pieces of ****... as long as i pay the titan piece of **** price...

 

[billymade]

I've noticed that the titan ratchets are now rebadged as Kobalt at Lowe's too...

 

[Skin]

You need to get on a Matco truck more often, many tools lately from Matco are Gearwrench and are stamped as Matco. You will not find Made in Taiwan or China on the tools or the packaging, yet if you call Matco customer service, they'll tell you, so you can then realize you just paid 250% going rate for Matco.

Also Matco doesn't deal on their boxes from what I can tell.

TheGrooveking

hindsight is 20/20. My post is 7 months old . In fairness i'll stick with what i said. You're mainly targeting ratcheting wrenches yes? In which case i dont disagree one bit.

 

[idubvdub]

idk you get what you buy and not every one has everything you need. The Mac guy has always been the guy I prefer to deal with. 2nd Mac dealer, 2nd shop. I've seen Matco trucks. Love my 88, I got as a student. If a truck came by I'd have more 88's at the very least.

 

[Racr350]

Most people are Snap On fanboys, leg humpers, quality tools, some rebranding, a little overpriced IMO

Matco tools do rebranding, I still like the quality for them though!!!!!!!

Mac, alot of foreign production, still a quality tool!!!!!!!!

That sums it up right there...

 

[wreckercologist]

I don't "hate" Matco, but they're about twentyish down on my list of preferred tool companies.

My dad told me matco was junk when I was starting out and to avoid them. He was a mechanic from the early '50's through 1994 and from most of what I have owned of theirs, he was right. Still holds true today IMO. I no longer buy new from them, and rarely buy in the used market. The 10mm through 24mm wrench set I bought in 2005 was a piece of ****. Crooked stampings, pits/holes in the finish, certainly not up to the quality chrome of some other tools companies(peeling), sloppy finish work, and a dealer that laughed about it and did nothing. The 15" long 3/8" ratchet I bought several months ago? Bent the handle and locked up the mechanism on day one. I guess they're long reach, not high leverage. I was eyeballing the new guys 24" 1/2" drive flex ratchet a while back and asked to borrow it. I broke it.....oops! Why would I buy this stuff? I vote with my paycheck, and guess who gets it?

I'll say this, Matco is run by smart people. They went from being nothing to a real market share competitor in a short time, and they support their dealers better than Mac and probably Snap-on. They also didn't screw over their dealers and customers like Mac did. I have not forgot what Mac did.

If you have good luck with them, fine. I'm happy for you. My experience has been different and I won't support them.

 

[Skin]

say what you want about matco but their hard line is just as good as everyone elses and quite a few new and up and coming tools/designs are premiered with their brand [modern ratcheting wrenches of varrying lengths and designs, pinless swivel impacts, locking flex ratchets etc..].

I also like their socket designs. The color coded easy read etchings is one of those "duh" things that everyone should be doing.

 

[wchamberlain]

It's simply a matter of preference.........Alot of Matco tools are overpriced, just like Snap On and Mac.

Some people are gonna pay the price of the brand no matter what the cost is due to their preference.

Kinda like some Jimmy Johnson fans will only shop at Lowes, Tony Stewart fans only at Office Depot and only eat BK. Now that Jr is AMP, some people will only drink that kool aid!!!!!

 

[bimmer630]

say what you want about matco but their hard line is just as good as everyone elses and quite a few new and up and coming tools/designs are premiered with their brand [modern ratcheting wrenches of varrying lengths and designs, pinless swivel impacts, locking flex ratchets etc..].

I also like their socket designs. The color coded easy read etchings is one of those "duh" things that everyone should be doing.

The colored etchings have already started to come off of the two matco sockets that I bought. still a good socket, and I didnt expect a blue number marking to stay on something like a socket anyway.

An older set of matco 1/4" sockets I had had serious chrome peeling/chipping issues.
I love my (witte) Matco nut drivers though

 

[Mr.Nutcase]

On the dealership I work, the only one that come is Matco and Snap On,
Mac and Cornwell dont stop .

 

[Virgil Cain]

Like everyone else said Mac did some pretty unethical things to their dealers and customers alike. There used to be a website started by a former dealer telling in detail all the legal actions taken against Mac and describing many of their terrible policies, it was called mactoolssuck.com I think, it has since been taken down but may still be accessible through a web archive site. I think generally Matco is not criticized as much do to the much better business practices they have, yes Matco outsources and rebrands a lot of tools but I think that is more accepted by some people because of the way they present it. Even so Matco is not held in the same high regard of Snapon by most people, mainly because of the reasons listed above and also due to there tools being manufactured by Danaher, that makes Matco more of a tool distributer and tool brand more than anything. Many of Matco's tools closely resemble other Danaher brands but at a higher cost. Snapon is usually considered the best tool you can buy for a reason, Snapon is owned and manufactured by Snapon and most of there hard line is made in the USA still and there quality is the best.

archive.org has several snapshots of that website (mactoolssuck.com). Seems to have been most active around 2005.

http://web.archive.org/web/20050212034557/http://mactoolssuck.com/

 

[-->]

Wow. I love mac but don't get on the trucks often. This is all news to me !

 

[bowtie3]

I guess I could go in the hate Matco club. I just have a hard time wrapping my head around paying premium prices for what may, or may not be premium tools. I know 100% for sure if I buy SO (not Blue Point) I can't go to Sears or Napa or Lowe's or Gearwrench or 50 other places and buy the same stuff for half or less. Matcos stuff may be better than Craftsman, but it may not be, so I will stick to what I know for sure is better. I just prefer to to buy from a manufacturer not just a reseller of everybody else's stuff. I love the old Mac stuff but its pretty much HF on wheels now.

 

[punkenduro]

matco comes by one a week at the shop im at now.
mac, i seen twice, between 2 shops ive work for, over a total of 3 or so years.

just my 2 cents, or almost 7 grand i owe snap on cus hes ALWAYS there.

 

[c/o say]

I have had the same Matco dealer for twenty plus years I have had at least four different Snap on dealers both have good tools. I own some tools from both but for hands down best service I will continue to buy from Matco Mike he will waranty any Matco tool with out any question. Don't get me wrong I like S/O but I like my matco dealer better.

 

[FergusonTO35]

In Kentucky, all Mac dealers are company drivers.They last on average about nine months on the job, one of them lasted all of two weeks. Those that stay longer than this do well until Mac goes schizo on them and orders them to buy into it or turn in the truck. Whats weird though, is that Mac's main business model called a "distributorship" is not a legally recognized form of business in Kentucky. So, Mac is telling these guys to invest their own money into something that legally doesn't exist here.

The best tool guy I ever dealt with was a Mac guy named Paul Dickison. Friendliest guy you ever met, he won all kinds of sales and customer service awards from Mac. For a couple of years he dominated Nicholasville and south Lexington which have been Snap-On turf for decades. One would think Mac would do anything they could to keep him but in 2006 they give him and all the other dealers in central Kentucky the usual invest-or-quit ultimatum and Paul left the tool business.

 

[otis66]

I hate MAC Tools because after years of buying USA MAC tools I broke my Dia cutting pliers. The Mac Dealer replaced my made in the USA MAC/Channellock pliers with some china made junk and informed me they would still be under the MAC Tools warranty. I told the MAC dealer that if I wanted China made tools I would go to Wally World. And a few more choice words. I got credit for the china pliers and bought usa ratchet. I never saw the MAC dealer again at my shop. It's not just MAC...It's MAC, Proto, Stanley.

 

[Skin]

Do you hate Matco and Cornwell also? All of them offer those cheap chinese plier sets. Only Snap-On is left because they're the only ones who actually manufactured their own.

 

[AL`]

It is quite possible for a manufacturer, like Danaher, to manufacture tools to one spec, and then a premium tool to a higher spec. I.E., a superior design, better materials, better process, with more stringent QC and tighter tolerances for the premium line. Saying that a Craftsman tool is the same quality as a Matco tool is an assertion. It may be true, but it might not. Without being directly involved in the manufacture of the different tools at Danaher, I don't see how that assertion holds any water. Just because Danaher makes CMan's crappy raised panel ratchets that break all the time doesn't mean that a Matco 88 isn't a better ratchet. Likewise, the CMan thin profile 60 tooth ratchet is better than the lower line of ratchets, and go figure, they cost a little more. However, that is always a pitfall any manufacturer makes when trying to address customers at a different price point. I.E., their economy line may drag down the reputation of the premium line through guilt by association. I don't see how Snapon can be said to be any different in that regard. I think when it's all said and done, each tool has to be judged on its own merits regardless of the brand or manufacturer. Also, since Matco tools are sold off the truck, that premium service and warranty is priced in -- the same as Snapon.

 

[Hammer1963]

It is quite possible for a manufacturer, like Danaher, to manufacture tools to one spec, and then a premium tool to a higher spec. I.E., a superior design, better materials, better process, with more stringent QC and tighter tolerances for the premium line. Saying that a Craftsman tool is the same quality as a Matco tool is an assertion. It may be true, but it might not. Without being directly involved in the manufacture of the different tools at Danaher, I don't see how that assertion holds any water. Just because Danaher makes CMan's crappy raised panel ratchets that break all the time doesn't mean that a Matco 88 isn't a better ratchet. Likewise, the CMan thin profile 60 tooth ratchet is better than the lower line of ratchets, and go figure, they cost a little more. However, that is always a pitfall any manufacturer makes when trying to address customers at a different price point. I.E., their economy line may drag down the reputation of the premium line through guilt by association. I don't see how Snapon can be said to be any different in that regard. I think when it's all said and done, each tool has to be judged on its own merits regardless of the brand or manufacturer. Also, since Matco tools are sold off the truck, that premium service and warranty is priced in -- the same as Snapon.

Agreed !

 

[otis66]

Do you hate Matco and Cornwell also? All of them offer those cheap chinese plier sets. Only Snap-On is left because they're the only ones who actually manufactured their own.

Like I said to the MAC dealer. If I want China made tools I'll go to Wally world. The MAC tool dealer wanted to replace my Channel Lock/Mac pliers with China/MAC junk. Cornwell and Matco Still offer the Channellock rebadged Cornwell and Matco Plier sets along with the cheaper china plier sets.. I still have a few of my MAC branded Channel lock pliers. If I need pliers now I would just get Channel lock. Most of my pliers are Snap On. I still like and own plenty of Cornwell ratchets. All made in USA. My Cornwell Dealer will inform me if somthing is not made in USA. My MAC and MATCO dealer don't seem to know what is made in China and What is made in USA.

 

[marruss]

Are the Harley Davidson tools rebadged Snap On as often claimed by the sellers?

 

[wchamberlain]

Are the Harley Davidson tools rebadged Snap On as often claimed by the sellers?

I have the complete 28 piece set, I haven't opened them. I'm gonna guess they are a re brand, just a marketing ploy used by S/O and HD.

If they said S/O believe me, they would be through the roof on pricing, making HD fans pay through the roof.

 

[otis66]

I do like the MAC TOOLS that I still have. I just don't like what they are selling now.

 

[Malka4re]

people have nothing to be disappointed by.

 

[bimmer630]

Do you hate Matco and Cornwell also? All of them offer those cheap chinese plier sets. Only Snap-On is left because they're the only ones who actually manufactured their own.

Ive seen my SO dealer deny warranty on a set of diag pliers that the technician swore up and down he bought from a SO truck.. The problem with pliers and things like that, Is none of the companies put there names on them permanently. ITs a laser etching or something that wears off after a year. I have a set of long handled Diag pliers that came with a MAC kit, but they dont say mac on them and they are the same Asian made pliers I can get from the no-name tool guy.. But how am I going to take them back to MAC for warranty if they break, If they dont have Macs name on them?

 

[bimmer630]

I do like the MAC TOOLS that I still have. I just don't like what they are selling now.

These wrenches are kinda lame. I bought just a long 13mm Knuckle saver, for turning rusty Tierod adjusters on BMW's when I was at the dealer... Thinking it was like a Flankdrive setup.. and the first time I did an alignment, the wrench slipped. I complained to my Mac guy and he told me "Its a knuckle saver, because its DESIGNED to slip slowly around a stuck fastener, and not slam your knuckles into an obstruction"

Oh great, a wrench thats designed to not turn a bolt. cool.


My snapon flankdrive plus wrenches I bought after that turn the tierods just fine

 

[4x4gearhead]

I have noticed that they both have items that are extremely overpriced for their quality. If Im going to get craftsman quality I may as well pay craftsman price. I am not a big fan of stanley/mac or matco at all. I own maybe 5 mac items all older, and the matco things that I bought mostly sit in my toolbox as they have been replaced by tools that dont let me down, that most likely cost me less money than the price of the original matco tool. I dont mean to be a hater but this has been my experience. It just urks me when you spend a bunch of money on something and it just doesnt even come close to working for its intended purpose.

 

[Skin]

I do like the MAC TOOLS that I still have. I just don't like what they are selling now.

Are those basic combos they're importing now? Thats very disappointing.

These wrenches are kinda lame. I bought just a long 13mm Knuckle saver, for turning rusty Tierod adjusters on BMW's when I was at the dealer... Thinking it was like a Flankdrive setup.. and the first time I did an alignment, the wrench slipped. I complained to my Mac guy and he told me "Its a knuckle saver, because its DESIGNED to slip slowly around a stuck fastener, and not slam your knuckles into an obstruction"

Oh great, a wrench thats designed to not turn a bolt. cool.


My snapon flankdrive plus wrenches I bought after that turn the tierods just fine

Knuckle Saver is nothing more than a dip in the open end to keep the contact point away from the edge. Its essentially identical to Matco's opti-torque. I dont care how the open end is designed i wouldnt put all my weight behind it. Its not the wrench, its the fasteners that usually end up deforming. The box end or flare wrench is the way to go for such situations.

 

[johnnybentwrench]

Love the MAC CL series wrenches, That's it though

 

[otis66]

These wrenches are kinda lame. I bought just a long 13mm Knuckle saver, for turning rusty Tierod adjusters on BMW's when I was at the dealer... Thinking it was like a Flankdrive setup.. and the first time I did an alignment, the wrench slipped. I complained to my Mac guy and he told me "Its a knuckle saver, because its DESIGNED to slip slowly around a stuck fastener, and not slam your knuckles into an obstruction"

Oh great, a wrench thats designed to not turn a bolt. cool.


My snapon flankdrive plus wrenches I bought after that turn the tierods just fine

I do like my Snap On wrenches better than my MAC wrenches. I have never had any problems with my MAC wrenches. I also have a MAC extra long Kunckle saver set that I use all the time, never had a problem. I just refuse to buy any China tools from any Truck...MAC, Cornwell,MATCO, or Snap On. I like those Dual 80's too but until the put USA on them I'm not buying.