byoungblood
Well-known member
Sadly, it is the gov't (EPA) that is to blame for most of those closings, not people buying imported goods. You just can't seem to get the folks that live up that way to realize who the real villain is.
Why I buy American Tools
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creativecars
Well-known member
LOL
...Talk is cheap, almost as cheap as opinions...
Having the knowledge and skill to fix something is where the payback comes in.
warmpancakes
Well-known member
thats a instructor trying to justify the insane rate hes paid
creativecars
Well-known member
GREEDY people!!! It does not matter who they are or work for, have ruined more US businesses that other countries.
BrokewrenchLS1
Well-known member
And where did those unions get the steel mills? The same place they've gotten a host of other companies that have had to go out of business. A "good" middle-class income isn't exactly a huge amount of money to talk about; the median household income in the US in 2012 is ~$44,000. Did steel mill workers make significantly more than that? If not, then they were paid average wages, like I said.
I'll ignore the "inherent rightness" of assuming wives should stay at home to raise kids; we're talking about tools here after all, not domestic (home) philosophy.
I understand completely what you're saying - not having enough money to afford a $100 ratchet is a ******** excuse for not buying American, just like you said. When a Gearwrench ratchet that's made in Taiwan or China costs the same as a US-made SK, where's the benefit in buying the GW (aside from marketing gimmicks like the 120-tooth head and the like)? But it does drive competition among manufacturers, which is good for everyone.
My toolbox is full of SK, US Craftsman, and Proto, so you don't need to worry about me not "supporting" American workers through tool purchases. I can afford a $100 wrench; I simply see it as a waste of money to buy a $100 US-made wrench when there's a $5 US-made wrench that does the exact same thing, without the brand-name knob-slobbing that goes on around here. Why would I spend $1000 on a set of 3/8" Snap-on sockets when I can get an equally good, US-made set for $150 from SK, or Armstrong, or Proto?
As far as what I do? I test most of the things you use every day, to make sure they don't kill you.
BrokewrenchLS1
Well-known member
The EPA is, in some cases, justified in their regulations and actions, regardless of whether it closes down a manufacturing plant or not. A quick read on the state of the environment and, by extension, public health in the UK during their industrial revolution, and the US in the 1920s - 1950s proves that point. China today is a good example of that - to walk around in most of their major cities requires some form of breathing filter, and chronic illness is at an exceptionally high level. They have, essentially, no regulation on industry; India is another good example of that.
Unfortunately, the majority of what the EPA requires and regulates is nothing more than special-interests politics based on faulty science and uninformed opinions. There's no reason intelligent regulation can't work fully with intelligent industrialization, but politics, unions, and a public who takes at face value anything reported on the news make certain that can't happen.
Trey T
Well-known member
This is sadly a typical American attitude, blaming on another person. The issue is much more complex than you think.
Dieselbutterfly
Well-known member
cgv69
Well-known member
Let me start by saying that nobody gets more sad and nostalgic looking at old, once great American factories that have been long since abandoned and turned to ruin more then me. You want to see a sad sight, go to Detroit or drive through the south side of Chicago.
Anybody old enough to remember when these factories where still in full swing would be disturbed and saddened by such images. Given that, I can understand how waiving the flag and chanting "Buy American" may make you feel better about it all but in realty, that's a very simplistic and grossly naive answer.
It's just not that simple. There are a dozens, possibly even hundreds of factors that lead us to this point. Unions, standard of living expectations, greed, laziness, arrogance, entitlements, national debt, the economy, transportation costs, communications (including the Internet), healthcare, etc.. but in an effort to keep this on topic and somewhat tool related...
While I do, in general believe in buying American when possible, I only do so when;
A. The American made product is as good or better then the competition
B. The American made product is priced competitively. I am willing to spend a little more for an American made product but only when it's quality and\or functionality justifies it's add cost.
In short, I will not reward any company for making low quality or over priced products just because they stamped "Made in the USA" on them. Right, wrong or indifferent US companies will have to learn how to compete in this global economy and IMO, holding them to a lower standard is not helping them in the long run. Ask the Auto Industry who's had to learn that lesson the hard way. If anything, I hold US manufacturers to a higher standard because I want "Made in the USA" to still mean something great.
Anybody old enough to remember when these factories where still in full swing would be disturbed and saddened by such images. Given that, I can understand how waiving the flag and chanting "Buy American" may make you feel better about it all but in realty, that's a very simplistic and grossly naive answer.
It's just not that simple. There are a dozens, possibly even hundreds of factors that lead us to this point. Unions, standard of living expectations, greed, laziness, arrogance, entitlements, national debt, the economy, transportation costs, communications (including the Internet), healthcare, etc.. but in an effort to keep this on topic and somewhat tool related...
While I do, in general believe in buying American when possible, I only do so when;
A. The American made product is as good or better then the competition
B. The American made product is priced competitively. I am willing to spend a little more for an American made product but only when it's quality and\or functionality justifies it's add cost.
In short, I will not reward any company for making low quality or over priced products just because they stamped "Made in the USA" on them. Right, wrong or indifferent US companies will have to learn how to compete in this global economy and IMO, holding them to a lower standard is not helping them in the long run. Ask the Auto Industry who's had to learn that lesson the hard way. If anything, I hold US manufacturers to a higher standard because I want "Made in the USA" to still mean something great.
hifi_hokie
Well-known member
Yeah, ask the residents of Bhopal what they think about the "as little regulation as possible" talking point.
Maybe that's the problem with environmental laws in the US - they actually worked since the '70s, so nobody remembers rivers spontaneously combusting
It is hard to buy USA products such as expensive tools. However I do see a slight shift like us arguing back and forth. A good sign we care. The factory I work in has added another million dollar foundry. Simply because power is more dependable and cost effective than depending on a 3rd world country. I will continue to search for nice used USA tools and maybe splurge on some new USA stuff. But make no doubt Americans are starting to care again. If the government puts manufacturing back on level ground watch out we will boom! In a good way..
This has happened before, on numerous occasions. Not limited to blue collar either.
Only people I see really raking in the cash are the assholes running the companies. Which was obtained by screwing every other employee over at a bare minimum (wage cuts and/or outsourcing, elimination of benefits, ...), their customers, and possibly the company's investors (when the company is run into the ground).
Yep.
What's really upsetting IMHO, is companies that outsourced manufacturing that weren't in any financial trouble, but rather to increase gross margins (and their own bonus package values). Doesn't seem to be any concern for their domestic market either.
Then by that logic, I should refuse to mentor any incoming engineer without additional payment... And we're talking about another 4 years here, minimum (based on SoPE requirements).
Things are already getting worse in this particular area due to those that are best able to mentor have been laid off/forced into early retirement due to the company's desire to reduce wages. Meaning a mentor may only have a year over the trainee. Essentially an issue of the blind leading the blind.
If this sort of thing continues, professions such as engineering will be in a very poor state in the not too distant future.
EPA had a part in certain industries, but most of it came back to the companies themselves. Such as not investing in equipment when they should have for example.
And worst offenders are the BoD.
Record Profits? Awesome! Let's outsource and make it even higher. Then we take home more.
Apparently there are several people here who don’t understand sarcasm. I doubt anyone is nostalgic for the dirty smokestack “building” itself, they are however nostalgic for the good paying union jobs made possible by those industries.
Lets be honest, your choice is not between a $100.00 Snap-On Ratchet and a cheap Chinese knock-off. There are many choices in American made tools to be had between the two extremes. I buy a lot of Snap-On tools at garage sales and estate sales for instance. Plus Snap-On is not the only manufacturer of American tools.
As to blaming the EPA for our industrial woes…… that’s one big fat red herring being dragged across this issue. $65.00 an hour jobs and profits for millionaire plant owners do no one any good if you are hooked up to an oxygen tank, or laying in the black lung wing at the Mayo clinic. I happen to like clean air and clean water. There is no legitimate reason why we can’t have both good jobs in addition to clean air and water.
Today however because of the tax code it pays for an employer to move his/her plant overseas to not only take advantage of the indigenous people but their low wage also. Additionally overseas profits of American corporations are taxed at a rate of zero (0) percent.
Lets be honest, your choice is not between a $100.00 Snap-On Ratchet and a cheap Chinese knock-off. There are many choices in American made tools to be had between the two extremes. I buy a lot of Snap-On tools at garage sales and estate sales for instance. Plus Snap-On is not the only manufacturer of American tools.
As to blaming the EPA for our industrial woes…… that’s one big fat red herring being dragged across this issue. $65.00 an hour jobs and profits for millionaire plant owners do no one any good if you are hooked up to an oxygen tank, or laying in the black lung wing at the Mayo clinic. I happen to like clean air and clean water. There is no legitimate reason why we can’t have both good jobs in addition to clean air and water.
Today however because of the tax code it pays for an employer to move his/her plant overseas to not only take advantage of the indigenous people but their low wage also. Additionally overseas profits of American corporations are taxed at a rate of zero (0) percent.
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jvitez
Well-known member
Agreed, there are multi-factorial causes for North America's industrial decline.
One is purely "our" fault. Most people now would rather own 10 cheap things vs one expensive well made thing.
My FIL never finished grade 12, was a journeyman painter taught by his old world father. Yet as a young man he fondly remembers going to a tailor to have a hand made winter coat sewn for him. No he didn't work in it, but everyone needed one nice piece of winter outerwear.
Now? 15 versions of ski-jackets/hoodies/snowmobile jackets lined up in most of our closets. I went to a leather outlet to buy a nice full length leather winter coat last year. Bought one. All made in China.
If we, the consumers, went back to the previous philosophy of valuing a few expensive things vs many cheap things, North American's could compete with real living wages.
One is purely "our" fault. Most people now would rather own 10 cheap things vs one expensive well made thing.
My FIL never finished grade 12, was a journeyman painter taught by his old world father. Yet as a young man he fondly remembers going to a tailor to have a hand made winter coat sewn for him. No he didn't work in it, but everyone needed one nice piece of winter outerwear.
Now? 15 versions of ski-jackets/hoodies/snowmobile jackets lined up in most of our closets. I went to a leather outlet to buy a nice full length leather winter coat last year. Bought one. All made in China.
If we, the consumers, went back to the previous philosophy of valuing a few expensive things vs many cheap things, North American's could compete with real living wages.
cgv69
Well-known member
No, just the opposite. I believe its those over-compensated union jobs that are at the root of the problem.
O_M_Jeep
Banned
Unions can take a lot of the blame, sorry, but unions create greedy lazy workers with a sense of entitlement who "create" products that are mediocre at best, if you cant be fired for doing a bad job you stop caring about what doing a good job means.
Look at NW, Yellow, Roadway, Detroit in general, the old rail lines, now google "union tries to enter subaru plant in Kentucky" or whatever it is to read how the UAW destroyed American auto manufacturing.
In the days of the robber-barons yes, unions were needed to protect workers from bad conditions, thats true, today you look at places like UPS and Boeing and see what unions do for American companies.
My wife was a supervisor for UPS for 5 years, this is a true story, a package car driver, in a hurry, forged a customers signature so she could leave a package of pharmaceuticals on the front porch, it was the fronch porch of a day care center, drugs left out of sight for some toddler to find, the union saved her job, threatened action if she was fired, their reason for keeping her?? "Well, she only did it once".
You take away accountability, for the workers, for the bosses, for the owners and what you get is precisely what we have, high profit margins for low standard products.
I was born in 1968, I grew up on Air Force bases in Europe, I watched my parents buy American made cars, and I listened to them try to figure out how to get to work when those brand new cars broke down usualy within weeks and again months after buying them, I learned growing up that "new cars always break down, thats why they have warrantees", I learned that Audi, BMW, Mercedes and other taxi-cabs of my youth were miles away more reliable, I learned that loyalty to a brand is fine, letting that loyalty cost you more money is dumb.
I wonder how many of you realise that you value American made tools considerably more, infinitly more than the guy who makes them and depends on them directly for a living, when you buy a $125 Snap-On ratchet you look at it like Excaliber, the 8th grade drop out who made it looks at it like another ******* ratchet and then he looks at the clock.
Look at NW, Yellow, Roadway, Detroit in general, the old rail lines, now google "union tries to enter subaru plant in Kentucky" or whatever it is to read how the UAW destroyed American auto manufacturing.
In the days of the robber-barons yes, unions were needed to protect workers from bad conditions, thats true, today you look at places like UPS and Boeing and see what unions do for American companies.
My wife was a supervisor for UPS for 5 years, this is a true story, a package car driver, in a hurry, forged a customers signature so she could leave a package of pharmaceuticals on the front porch, it was the fronch porch of a day care center, drugs left out of sight for some toddler to find, the union saved her job, threatened action if she was fired, their reason for keeping her?? "Well, she only did it once".
You take away accountability, for the workers, for the bosses, for the owners and what you get is precisely what we have, high profit margins for low standard products.
I was born in 1968, I grew up on Air Force bases in Europe, I watched my parents buy American made cars, and I listened to them try to figure out how to get to work when those brand new cars broke down usualy within weeks and again months after buying them, I learned growing up that "new cars always break down, thats why they have warrantees", I learned that Audi, BMW, Mercedes and other taxi-cabs of my youth were miles away more reliable, I learned that loyalty to a brand is fine, letting that loyalty cost you more money is dumb.
I wonder how many of you realise that you value American made tools considerably more, infinitly more than the guy who makes them and depends on them directly for a living, when you buy a $125 Snap-On ratchet you look at it like Excaliber, the 8th grade drop out who made it looks at it like another ******* ratchet and then he looks at the clock.
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Exceller8
Well-known member
You can blame corporate greed for all of this, not the American buying public. We've been slowly selling out our country in the name of greed and I don't see anything changing. I try and support American companies whenever possible but my choices are more limited by the day.
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I was wondering how long it would take before someone blamed America’s free trade unions for our economic ills. It seems like every time some working man or woman gets ahead by forming a union, someone else just can’t stand the fact that working people are getting uppity.
Those nasty communist unions, they improve working conditions, improve workplace safety, brought us things like “weekends”, health insurance, overtime, paid holidays and a ******** decent wage. Make no mistake about it, it’s that last item (decent wages) that bothers some people, usually covert employers who don’t want to share the wealth and profit from the hands and labor of working people.
Europe has stronger trade unions and better benefits and wages and they seem to be doing just fine. What they don’t have (for the most part) is a super greedy ownership class with an entitlement mentality.
O_M_Jeep
Banned
Europe seems to be doing just fine ??????? So, your as ignorant about European economies as you are about unions. The trouble with unions is not about wages, its about accountability and holding a bad employee resonsible for doing a bad job, but if you like, yes, wages are a problem too, or are you as ignorant to the concept of inflation as you are to the rest of the world economic situation?
FYI, Italy is in bankruptcy, and they are better off than a lot of other European contries who's governments cant make payrolls or debts, how would like to pay $7/gal for gasoline (in the cheaper countries) and have no food on the shelves because they cant pay the people who grow it (US) enough to ship it there.
FYI, Italy is in bankruptcy, and they are better off than a lot of other European contries who's governments cant make payrolls or debts, how would like to pay $7/gal for gasoline (in the cheaper countries) and have no food on the shelves because they cant pay the people who grow it (US) enough to ship it there.
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That was my exact thought while reading his post
Also I feel this union discussion is re-hashed every week.
OM let's worry about the USA more and less about everyone else? Yes unions do protect looser employees sometimes but the good out weighs the bad. Unions will continue to become a thing of the past for awhile but will come full circle and rise again(I think).
I'm not anti import but pro USA.
We need to buy USA whenever feasible and support our country.(I hate your Chinese saying by the way)-sorry
I'm not anti import but pro USA.
We need to buy USA whenever feasible and support our country.(I hate your Chinese saying by the way)-sorry
O_M_Jeep
Banned
Thats ok hate away, I'm glad someone has an opposing opinion, that is what makes America great and to a far lesser extent these days, free.
Have you considered that "Support USA" also means "Support union greed, shoddy workmanship, lazy workers, corporate stupidity and fat bonuses for managers and CEOs"?
It also means "Hey Snap-On CEO, I know your importing things from China, I know your quarterly bonus is more than all your employees made combined made last year, I know you only care about share holders and the bottom line, but since you still make 65% (or whatever it is) of your tools in the USA, please let me pay 5-7 times what it's worth to reward you." "Keep up the good work, and its ok to export those jobs and import carts and ratchets, as long as you keep ole Bob on the tool box line were behind you 700%(of retail).
If it makes you feel better, Im not anti-American, I drove trucks and fed and clothed this country for 23 years, and at less than minimum wage as any driver can tell you, I did much better than that hauling US Mail, I worked on cars for 5 years for people who couldnt afford to take it to a shop (the average American wage I guess), and now I work on trucks, with my chinese tools, everyday to continue to help the Russian drivers keep this country alive, I own a pontiac, a GMC, a Chevy and a Jeep.
I have never had a home town or lived anywhere more than 3 years until I was 24, never had a best freind for years and years, never had roots, thanks to my fathers dedication to the military, I dont complain about my whole childhood being given to this countries defense, never have and never will, its all I know.
The other thing the United States Government and its citizens have taught me is that loyalty to this country isnt something you give just because you happen to be born here, the country, its citizens, you and me and that guy need to earn that loyalty everyday. Ask a Marine if respect is given.
hate away, I'm glad someone has an opposing opinion, that is what makes America great and to a far lesser extent these days, free.Have you considered that "Support USA" also means "Support union greed, shoddy workmanship, lazy workers, corporate stupidity and fat bonuses for managers and CEOs"?
It also means "Hey Snap-On CEO, I know your importing things from China, I know your quarterly bonus is more than all your employees made combined made last year, I know you only care about share holders and the bottom line, but since you still make 65% (or whatever it is) of your tools in the USA, please let me pay 5-7 times what it's worth to reward you." "Keep up the good work, and its ok to export those jobs and import carts and ratchets, as long as you keep ole Bob on the tool box line were behind you 700%(of retail).
If it makes you feel better, Im not anti-American, I drove trucks and fed and clothed this country for 23 years, and at less than minimum wage as any driver can tell you, I did much better than that hauling US Mail, I worked on cars for 5 years for people who couldnt afford to take it to a shop (the average American wage I guess), and now I work on trucks, with my chinese tools, everyday to continue to help the Russian drivers keep this country alive, I own a pontiac, a GMC, a Chevy and a Jeep.
I have never had a home town or lived anywhere more than 3 years until I was 24, never had a best freind for years and years, never had roots, thanks to my fathers dedication to the military, I dont complain about my whole childhood being given to this countries defense, never have and never will, its all I know.
The other thing the United States Government and its citizens have taught me is that loyalty to this country isnt something you give just because you happen to be born here, the country, its citizens, you and me and that guy need to earn that loyalty everyday. Ask a Marine if respect is given.
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Calling me ignorant does not improve your argument, all it does is tell me you have no argument. Furthermore Italy is not in Europe, that area is called the Mediterranean.
Additionally, providing antidotal evidence from a biased supervisory source (your wife) is not confirmation of union or industry wide practice.
Lastly, unions and their members just assemble the cars, that assembly is overseen by non-union supervisors and the management of the American auto makers do not invite the union or it’s membership to help design their product.
What comes through loud and clear from your comments is a superior and aloof disdain for the employees of Snap-On tools and jealous envy of union wages. Which, when I note your location is understandable.
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Perrorojo
Well-known member
http://europa.eu/about-eu/countries/member-countries/italy/index_en.htm
Italy is part of the European Union. As is Greece.
zakmartin
Well-known member
Perrorojo
Well-known member
It's the one shaped like a boot.
I didn’t mention the European Union, nor did O_M_Jeep. If you want to make the argument that economic problems in Italy and Greece are the fault of trade unions rather than rules imposed by the world bank go ahead. I'm all ears.
kc-steve
Well-known member
I tend to agree although others do make good points about all other aspects involved. But no one can deny that during our US history from the early 1900s until today, this country has flipped from having unchecked capitalists' power to unchecked government power.
And when you also look at when our country's greatest economic growth occurred, it happened during unchecked capitalists' power.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating unchecked capitalists' power, but surely we can find a mid-point where our economy will have enough freedom to flourish. We have four more years of the same unchecked government power to think about it.
Steve
It's the one shaped like a boot.
Italy’s shape does not change it’s location….Mediterranean 1. Mediterranean Sea or surrounding area: the Mediterranean Sea, or the lands bordering it
vacationing in the Mediterranean
Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
O_M_Jeep
Banned
Now you want to get pedantic? lol Italy is part of Europe, ask anyone who lives there (Italy or Europe lol).
But ok, what countries in Europe did you mean? Tell us what European (by your definition) country is thriving and progressing, due to unions or not, either way, tell us what countries your talking about and how they are thriving, please.
But ok, what countries in Europe did you mean? Tell us what European (by your definition) country is thriving and progressing, due to unions or not, either way, tell us what countries your talking about and how they are thriving, please.
bczygan
Well-known member
I too miss SOME things from the past, just as my great grandfather missed some of the things about the old south, when reconstruction came. But the world turns and things change. Some people try to live in the past as much as possible, but we are eventually gone, and with us, our dreams and desires. Meanwhile the younger generation is busy creating a world so different, based on things so foreign to us, that we might not like living there...or if we opened our minds we might find the world they invented to be quite remarkable.
You got caught talking like a jerk. Rather than re-think your erroneous comments you now accuse me of sticking to geographical borders as a weakness. I don’t have define Europe, that was accomplished some time ago.
I notice you have no argument to any of the points I made.
Perrorojo
Well-known member
Italy consists of a mountainous peninsula in southern Europe extending into the Mediterranean Sea and includes the islands of Sicily, Sardinia, and about 70 other smaller islands. The Alps form Italy's border with France, Switzerland, Austria, and Slovenia. Most of Italy has warm, dry summers and mild winters, with northern Italy experiencing colder, wetter winters. There are some notable active volcanoes: Vesuvius (near Naples), Etna (on Sicily), and Stromboli (north of Sicily).
Although decades of struggle unified Italy in 1871, two Italys exist today: the prosperous, industrialized north and the less developed agricultural south, known as the Mezzogiorno (land of the midday sun). Their differences reach back to the Renaissance, when northern city-states flourished while the Kingdom of Naples and Sicily languished under French and Spanish rule. The government confronts corruption, which is traceable to organized crime and an unemployment rate in the south more than twice that of the north. To address regional inequalities, a constitutional referendum was held in 2001—the results favored giving greater autonomy to the country's 20 regions in tax, education, and environmental policies.
Milan reigns as Italy's first city of commerce, and the Po River plain is both Italy's agricultural heartland and southern Europe's most advanced industrial region. Turin, the capital of heavy industry, is home to Fiat—one of the world's largest car producers. A major attraction for pilgrims and tourists is the "Holy Shroud" in Turin's cathedral—tradition holds that this was Christ's burial cloth. Florence was the birthplace of the Renaissance and is home to great works of civic and religious architecture, sculpture, and paintings. Rome, Italy's capital, exhibits the architectural and artistic grandeur of ancient civilizations.
Italy has to import almost all its raw materials and energy. Italy's economic strength is in the processing and manufacturing of goods, primarily in small and medium size family-owned firms. Its major industries include precision machinery, motor vehicles, fashion, clothing, and footwear. A founding member of both NATO and the European Union, Italy's superb transportation system, from airports to high-speed trains, connects it with the rest of Europe.
ECONOMY
•Industry: Tourism, machinery, iron and steel, chemicals
•Agriculture: Fruits, vegetables, grapes, potatoes; beef; fish
•Exports: Engineering products, textiles and clothing, production machinery, motor vehicles, transport equipment
.—Text From National Geographic Atlas of the World, Eighth Edition
.
I've informed National Geographic of their error. They were very appreciative. They will edit their documents and inform all text book manufacturers and web hosts. (smiley face)
Although decades of struggle unified Italy in 1871, two Italys exist today: the prosperous, industrialized north and the less developed agricultural south, known as the Mezzogiorno (land of the midday sun). Their differences reach back to the Renaissance, when northern city-states flourished while the Kingdom of Naples and Sicily languished under French and Spanish rule. The government confronts corruption, which is traceable to organized crime and an unemployment rate in the south more than twice that of the north. To address regional inequalities, a constitutional referendum was held in 2001—the results favored giving greater autonomy to the country's 20 regions in tax, education, and environmental policies.
Milan reigns as Italy's first city of commerce, and the Po River plain is both Italy's agricultural heartland and southern Europe's most advanced industrial region. Turin, the capital of heavy industry, is home to Fiat—one of the world's largest car producers. A major attraction for pilgrims and tourists is the "Holy Shroud" in Turin's cathedral—tradition holds that this was Christ's burial cloth. Florence was the birthplace of the Renaissance and is home to great works of civic and religious architecture, sculpture, and paintings. Rome, Italy's capital, exhibits the architectural and artistic grandeur of ancient civilizations.
Italy has to import almost all its raw materials and energy. Italy's economic strength is in the processing and manufacturing of goods, primarily in small and medium size family-owned firms. Its major industries include precision machinery, motor vehicles, fashion, clothing, and footwear. A founding member of both NATO and the European Union, Italy's superb transportation system, from airports to high-speed trains, connects it with the rest of Europe.
ECONOMY
•Industry: Tourism, machinery, iron and steel, chemicals
•Agriculture: Fruits, vegetables, grapes, potatoes; beef; fish
•Exports: Engineering products, textiles and clothing, production machinery, motor vehicles, transport equipment
.—Text From National Geographic Atlas of the World, Eighth Edition
.
I've informed National Geographic of their error. They were very appreciative. They will edit their documents and inform all text book manufacturers and web hosts. (smiley face)
So? By the way, if Italy was part of Europe why do they need high speed trains to connect it with Europe (see the last sentence of you own 4th paragraph.)
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O_M_Jeep
Banned
LMAO ! ! ! ! Your the one that said Europe is thriving because of unions, then when I mention a bankrupt country, and one of the better off financialy, you argue geography. LOL. I'm not talking like a jerk, I'm talking like someone who dissagrees with you and wants you to clearify your stand, you cant do that can you? It's ok to be wrong, I do it all the time.
When you make a point other than "Europe seems to be doing just fine thanks to unions" I'll happily address that point. Until then, if you can, tell us what countries you were referring to, its your assertion, tell us who you meant, please.
Perrorojo
Well-known member
I am in tears I am laughing so hard.
Besides the fact that all the Mediterranean Countries are going bankrupt and are apart of the European Union.
Please find documentation of the continent "Mediterranea"
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