O_M_Jeep
Banned
Do you have a non-geographical non-waste of time follow up to your poorly chosen statement about Europes wellness?
Why I buy American Tools
- Thread starter Conductor562
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Do you have a non-geographical non-waste of time follow up to your poorly chosen statement about Europes wellness?
Perrorojo
Well-known member
It's because of the whole Chef Boyardee debacle.
Perrorojo
Well-known member
I'm betting it doesn't have anything to do with bankruptcy or 20% unemployment...
Are you really that dense? I have never said Europe is thriving because of unions….I said Europe has stronger unions and they are doing fine. Then as a counter argument you mention a country not in Europe as if that defeats my argument. And when you belittle Snap-On employees you are talking like a jerk.
Keep digging you’re just digging yourself deeper into an already untenable position.
That's a quote from National Geographic. See where it says "Text from National...."
Then National Geographic proves you wrong, doesn’t it.
creativecars
Well-known member
LOL... This is way more entertaining than informational. Keep up the good work guys. Oh yeah, what was this thread about? 
mmack66
Well-known member
So the problems of United States manufacturing can all be attributed to unions, CEOs, consumers, Wall Street, Capitalism, cheap foreign labor, the EPA...
What hope do we have?
What hope do we have?
O_M_Jeep
Banned
I never belittled Snap-On employees, management, yes, CEO, yes, corporate structure, yes, absolutely. I also said "as long as the keep ol Bob on the tool box line" and "he sees another ratchet, then looks at the clock".
Do you have anything other than geography to add? Did you mean the unions in Europe are doing fine? Because Europe isnt doing fine at all, and if the unions are doing fine in an impoverished country that kinda proves the point huh.
Do you have anything other than geography to add? Did you mean the unions in Europe are doing fine? Because Europe isnt doing fine at all, and if the unions are doing fine in an impoverished country that kinda proves the point huh.
Steinmetz
Well-known member
With respect to Number 5, agree. Nothing will change until the public values high wage jobs as much as they value low prices.
Perrorojo
Well-known member
Back on topic:
Since i would be considered a part time tool user I could probably not tell the difference between the COO on a tool if blindfolded. I do try to buy American at every chance and I ask that my gifts that come in the form of tools be American. One of the problems we are seeing is the result of efficiency. It doesn't take as many people to build a car/wrench/ fill in the blank.... as it used to. Also, most of those facilities aren't viable in todays manufacturing process.
I do have a problem with the way they are declared as brownfield sites and rendered virtually untouchable. I'd like to see those sites sold off to private firms for repurposing without fear of environmental repercusions. There is way to much delapidated real estate out there blighting our cities.
The question should be: How do we bring those facilities and jobs back? I don't think we can answer it at this point. We are an entitlement society right now (not as bad as Italy or the other European nations) and physical labor is looked down upon.
Since i would be considered a part time tool user I could probably not tell the difference between the COO on a tool if blindfolded. I do try to buy American at every chance and I ask that my gifts that come in the form of tools be American. One of the problems we are seeing is the result of efficiency. It doesn't take as many people to build a car/wrench/ fill in the blank.... as it used to. Also, most of those facilities aren't viable in todays manufacturing process.
I do have a problem with the way they are declared as brownfield sites and rendered virtually untouchable. I'd like to see those sites sold off to private firms for repurposing without fear of environmental repercusions. There is way to much delapidated real estate out there blighting our cities.
The question should be: How do we bring those facilities and jobs back? I don't think we can answer it at this point. We are an entitlement society right now (not as bad as Italy or the other European nations) and physical labor is looked down upon.
Perrorojo
Well-known member
No. It states Italy is in Southern Europe.
I say burn it down and restart.
Steinmetz
Well-known member
Ever hear about Love Canal? Times Beach? Whose villainy? Tell me.
Perrorojo
Well-known member
LOL... This is way more entertaining than informational. Keep up the good work guys. Oh yeah, what was this thread about?
Geography and Italian dislike of Americans???
Perrorojo
Well-known member
Are those sweats OSHA approved?
You said “I wonder how many of you realise that you value American made tools considerably more, infinitly more than the guy who makes them and depends on them directly for a living, when you buy a $125 Snap-On ratchet you look at it like Excaliber, the 8th grade drop out who made it looks at it like another ******* ratchet and then he looks at the clock” (That’s your quote)
Calling people 8th grade dropouts is belittling Snap-On employees, even if you want to disown it now. Apparently you know as little about the people working at Snap-On as you do about geography. The one thing you appear to know best is how to avoid the point.
Keep digging!
O_M_Jeep
Banned
Perrorojo
Well-known member
What if it was an imported Snap-On and the educational system in the COO stopped at 8th grade?
garfunkle24
Well-known member
Chipmunk, Italy is as European as the USA is American. Every factual source in the world will tell you so and arguing otherwise is just making you looking foolish.
O_M_Jeep
Banned
I'm an 8th grade drop out
and havent suffered much for it, so I guess if thats belittling to them, then it is to me too since I'm right there with them.Semantics and pedantry aside, it doesnt make it less true.
If this guy discounts Italy and every other country which touches the Mediterranean, he's giving up France, Spain and Portugal too. You might as well take away the UK, Ireland, and all of Scandinavia. Thus leaving you with Germany, who struggle to prop up the rest of this non-continent, and a handful of it's otherwise irrelevant neighbors.
creativecars
Well-known member
What if it was an imported Snap-On and the educational system in the COO stopped at 8th grade?
We could use Snap-on tools to assemble the chairs made in Taiwan for my GED class. And use China made computers for self study...
Just sayin'
Perrorojo
Well-known member
OP
Conductor562
Well-known member
Guys, I'm at work and don't have time to get involved, but I'm looking forward to it tonight. I posted this because I wanted everyone to have a peek at globalization through the eyes of a young man in the "rust belt" trying to hold on to what little we have left. Talking about all these contributing factors is exactly what I wanted to happen. Great responses guys! Keep em coming.
This thread got railroaded, have fun reading make some popcorn and then read it while having the popcorn. Lol
Dieselbutterfly
Well-known member
this thread is heartbreaking
Perrorojo
Well-known member
Alright, aside from the "one of these kids is doing his own thing.." part of this thread.
How do any of us propose we create anything from these sites? You could melt down the steel and make wrenches? That still won't impress on the current generation of 12-20yr olds the importance of hard work, physical labor or having an economy that runs 4% unemployment.
I hate to say it but 10% unemployment may be a permanent reality. Anybody ever seen those signs that say "Don't feed the animals or they won't learn to feed themselves"?
How do any of us propose we create anything from these sites? You could melt down the steel and make wrenches? That still won't impress on the current generation of 12-20yr olds the importance of hard work, physical labor or having an economy that runs 4% unemployment.
I hate to say it but 10% unemployment may be a permanent reality. Anybody ever seen those signs that say "Don't feed the animals or they won't learn to feed themselves"?
This is so true, I just came back from Hawaii visiting my cousin who is stationed there. They have high unemployment with locals yet there are many jobs, for example McDonalds, Best Buy etc all are hiring. Most locals choose not to work those jobs because the entitlements provided by our government is better and more money that actually having a job.
If government entitlements make it more lucrative them actually working why work. This is the real state of the nation.
creativecars
Well-known member
In this area its not so much the 12-20 age group but the generation or two before who have been telling their kids they are too good to work for a living (factory or skilled labor) and they should get a 4 year degree. Well guess what.. now there is no one with the skills or desire to have the skills to work. This did not happen over night, but with several generations pushing to this point. They need help and guidance from someone with a clue.
O_M_Jeep
Banned
Greed comes in many forms, in America it's personal wealth, in Germany it's economic stability, in a lot of Asia it's national pride, we have to change what we value in order to change our priorities, as long as the goal is personal wealth the business model will be to take as much as possible and give back as little as you can.
Look at it this way, you have a company, you make schematics, engineering, whatever, intellectual work product, you pay your underlings enough to keep them happy and keep them leaving with the training you gave them, you keep the profits as high as you can and the costs as low as possible. This is the way business works.
The problem is, a group of M.I.T. and Stanford educated engineers just got their doctorates and have returned to their home country, they were here on an H1B visa, now they are back in Malaysia, where $25000/year makes them rich, and the internet makes them accesible, and they are just as good at turning out intellectual work product as your company, maybe more, no weekends, no holidays, and less staff, and all at 1/3rd of what you can do it for. Now your out of a job and the job is outsourced, not because you did a bad job, but because it was $18/floor/unit cheaper to send it to Taiwan.
If you think the lack of education in this country isnt a direct threat, the see what the educators who see it everyday have to say, you want to save the USA, start here -
Look at it this way, you have a company, you make schematics, engineering, whatever, intellectual work product, you pay your underlings enough to keep them happy and keep them leaving with the training you gave them, you keep the profits as high as you can and the costs as low as possible. This is the way business works.
The problem is, a group of M.I.T. and Stanford educated engineers just got their doctorates and have returned to their home country, they were here on an H1B visa, now they are back in Malaysia, where $25000/year makes them rich, and the internet makes them accesible, and they are just as good at turning out intellectual work product as your company, maybe more, no weekends, no holidays, and less staff, and all at 1/3rd of what you can do it for. Now your out of a job and the job is outsourced, not because you did a bad job, but because it was $18/floor/unit cheaper to send it to Taiwan.
If you think the lack of education in this country isnt a direct threat, the see what the educators who see it everyday have to say, you want to save the USA, start here -
You do realize that only about 10-12% of the American work force is unionized, on top of that its getting smaller everyday. Eventually corporate America will have to start taking responsibility for poorly run companies and a failing economy. I get it... It's easy to blame unions.
NW? Do you mean Norfolk and Western Railway the one that merged with Southern to form Norfolk and Southern of which employs me (unionized) and is making record profits, Year after year?
RedFordTruck
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mmack66
Well-known member
So we should all get degrees and move to Malaysia?
O_M_Jeep
Banned
No, NW (North Western) the trucking company that when it went out of business, the drivers were on the news 24/7 in Denver wondering what the thousands of them would do without the $90k-$130k/yr income they were used to, all those foreclosures and bankruptcies were big news, mormal people who made the decision to go on strike and the evil corporation decided they couldnt afford to stay in business.
Gotcha .. I'm not gonna pretend to know that situation, but I can say with great confindence everything isn't always how it's portrayed via the media. The majority of the unions that are left have adapted over the years and learned that there must be concessions during trying times. There will always be that one union UAW that all are judged against but the majority of us don't carry that much clout.
O_M_Jeep
Banned
No , but when we stop exporting intellectual prowess we can stop exporting the jobs that come from them. I've never seen a Nobel loriate build his own machines or facilities, when was the last time you saw a physicist swing a hammer.
I live in the oil fields, we have more $20-$50/hr jobs than anywhere and no one to fill them, no 8th drade drop outs, we also have no geologists, no metalurgists, no chemists, and no engineers to make the $250k-$500k/yr jobs, they are all in Kuwait, Saudi, Qatar, even in the North Sea where it pays better. The jobs are here, there is so little unemployment where I live hotel maids make $14/hr and McDonalds starts out at $12.50/hr and they cant find workers.
Guess which jobs were open first, Guess which jobs couldnt be filled first, with the exportation of education, and the emphasis on white collar corporate jobs, there is no one left to do the Joe jobs (funny how here geologist and pipe-fitter and McDonalds crew member and hotel maid are all Joe jobs (as in the average Joe)). We have college graduates everyday leaving to go elsewhere to work while the ones who stay here become lawyers and government workers, I live in a county of 12000 people and there is only one gynocologist, no cardiac or respratory or any other kind of specialists, medical care isnt unaffordable, it's unavailable.
This is what exporting education does.
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