Why I buy from Harbor Freight - No bashing!

[FriendOfYours]

* Some of the comments here seem to be directed towards me only, so I'll address them here

I own a small shop in a town of about 900 people. We do not have tool trucks, they will not come out here. I don't have the volume of work to justify searching them out or them coming here. My boxes are filled with Matco, Armstrong, Sunex, Grey Pneumatic, Gearwrench, HF and bit of Craftsman. When the Matco guy used to come out here years ago, I spent LOADS on the truck. He went out of business. HF has filled the gap, as there is one about 25 minutes away. Our Sears is a nightmare and the Ace around here are priced twice that of Sears
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They employ about 11,000 people IN the USA

May not be high paying manufacturing jobs, but it certainly is better than nothing

That should be good enough reason not to rag on HF. Some products ****, some are great. We should care about jobs. Not just the jobs they create directly, but for people like me who couldn't stay afloat without some of the good tools they offer

Snap-On, just for reference because they are probably the most well known for US made tools, employ about 11,500 Worldwide

More fathers can help their sons replace those brakes or finish that garage because of HF

 

[KamiCrit]

It's all about accessibility. It's easier for the masses to walk into their local HF than to try to flog down a tool truck. Never have to worry about the local HF running around the town when you need them most.

Personally that's one of the reasons why I like the Proto tools, I know my local Canadian tool store will have Proto's when I need them.

 

[Super Sport]

They employ about 11,000 people IN the USA

May not be high paying manufacturing jobs, but it certainly is better than nothing

That should be good enough reason not to rag on HF. Some products ****, some are great. We should care about jobs. Not just the jobs they create directly, but for people like me who couldn't stay afloat without some of the good tools they offer

Snap-On, just for reference because they are probably the most well known for US made tools, employ about 11,500 Worldwide

More fathers can help their sons replace those brakes or finish that garage because of HF

I find this to be an extremely flawed view. Sure HF employs people, I don't think anybody would dispute that. But if HF didn't exist, how many US jobs would there be instead? I'll bet dollars to doughnuts it would be a larger number.

And if you're talking about supporting the largest employer you should be defending one of the big box stores, as they employ far more than HF.

 

[ibedayank]

I find this to be an extremely flawed view. Sure HF employs people, I don't think anybody would dispute that. But if HF didn't exist, how many US jobs would there be instead? I'll bet dollars to doughnuts it would be a larger number.

And if you're talking about supporting the largest employer you should be defending one of the big box stores, as they employ far more than HF.

better check where the products are made in those stores before your foot gets to far in your mouth. When was the last time one of the big box stores sold a motorcycle lift table?

 

[Super Sport]

better check where the products are made in those stores before your foot gets to far in your mouth. When was the last time one of the big box stores sold a motorcycle lift table?

I'm not bashing HF or imported products in my post, am I? I'm saying that the thinking is flawed.

I've shopped at HF before, and don't have a problem with their existence.

 

[dankicksass]

11000 minimum wage jobs. Thanks Harbor Freight.

 

[west wind]

I'm not bashing HF or imported products in my post, am I? I'm saying that the thinking is flawed.

I've shopped at HF before, and don't have a problem with their existence.

I hear what you're saying. If harbor freight has 11000 employees selling the tools and 100% of the tools were manufactured in the us. That's just logically more jobs. People here would be manufacturing, selling, and using the tools.

 

[FriendOfYours]

Never said I don't shop at the bigger stores, it comes down to cost. But when you have a more expensive foreign tool and a cheaper but just as functional foreign tool, why buy the more expensive? Harbor freight is strictly a tool store. I'm sure Lowes, Home Depot, Walmart and Sears(who is failing because of much more than CMAN) could lose the tool department and still survive.

 

[Conductor562]

Snap-On employs 11,500 people whom they pay a living wage to manufacture some of the highest quality tools in the world.

Harbor Freight employs 11,000 people whom they pay minimum or near minimum wage to stock and ring up cheap *** tools manufactured by some Chinaman making $ 0.50 a day who could give a flying **** less about the quality of the product he's putting out.

I get what your saying, professional tools aren't feasible for everyone, hell, I own 4 or 5 HF items myself, but you can't tout them for employing people for dog **** wages to make the CEO mega rich while the employees flirt with poverty.

 

[FriendOfYours]

11000 minimum wage jobs. Thanks Harbor Freight.

Would you prefer no jobs? Think about all the people in shipping and receiving, managers, assistant managers, corporate, etc... Those people don't make minimum wage and likely have families. The ones with minimum wage have those jobs for a reason. Either a stepping stone or it's where they belong

Those people CHOOSE to work there

 

[Conductor562]

Would you prefer no jobs? Think about all the people in shipping and receiving, managers, assistant managers, corporate, etc... Those people don't make minimum wage and likely have families. The ones with minimum wage have those jobs for a reason. Either a stepping stone or it's where they belong

Those people CHOOSE to work there

Or.....because of companies like Harbor Freight minimum wage is the option they have.

 

[west wind]

Would you prefer no jobs? Think about all the people in shipping and receiving, managers, assistant managers, corporate, etc... Those people don't make minimum wage and likely have families. The ones with minimum wage have those jobs for a reason. Either a stepping stone or it's where they belong

Those people CHOOSE to work there

Seems a little harsh to me.

 

[Super Sport]

If HF didn't exist, all of their competitors would do more business. In turn, they would all hire more employees and build more stores. Job count would increase at every level, from shipping, to warehouse, to hourly, to salary. The job count would probably be about the same, HF existing or not.

I'll also mention that all of those competitors sell a higher percentage of USA-made goods, helping manufacturing in this country while they're at it.

 

[dankicksass]

If Harbor Freight weren't there, those people would still get jobs. HF is just a space occupier. They're not special. They don't develop property so they aren't even making any short term high wage jobs when they move in to a new location. They sell low quality import goods at a slightly lower than average price of competing, better goods. No need to put lipstick on it.

 

[ibedayank]

Never said I don't shop at the bigger stores, it comes down to cost. But when you have a more expensive foreign tool and a cheaper but just as functional foreign tool, why buy the more expensive? Harbor freight is strictly a tool store. I'm sure Lowes, Home Depot, Walmart and Sears(who is failing because of much more than CMAN) could lose the tool department and still survive.

I take it by this post you have not been in a sears store lately? like last couple of months. Chances are that one that was close to you is now CLOSED. Most of it can be blamed to greedy stockholders screaming for record proffits. Made in America with care and quality means dogshit in this day and age

Yes people buy imported goods not like we are given much of a choice anymore when buying new in a local store

 

[ibedayank]

Snap-On employs 11,500 people whom they pay a living wage to manufacture some of the highest quality tools in the world.

Harbor Freight employs 11,000 people whom they pay minimum or near minimum wage to stock and ring up cheap *** tools manufactured by some Chinaman making $ 0.50 a day who could give a flying **** less about the quality of the product he's putting out.

I get what your saying, professional tools aren't feasible for everyone, hell, I own 4 or 5 HF items myself, but you can't tout them for employing people for dog **** wages to make the CEO mega rich while the employees flirt with poverty.

if you think everything snap-on makes is USA made then where is blue-point made and whay does snap-on have factories in many countries around the world.. better look into it

 

[geologist]

There is a fellow on here that was able to build a business for himself, simply because he saved money on getting Harbor Freight tools, and then upgraded as he could. Not everyone can afford the tool truck, and not every tool truck driver is worth a damn. I've been trying to buy a set of ratchets from almighty SO for months, but I can't get the damned tool schmuck (and that's what a great percentage are) to return calls or emails. So, with that said, he lost out.

It wasn't as if I wanted him to make a special trip for a pocket screwdriver -- I wanted to plunk down a couple of hundred dollars. Oh well. It would seem that the high and mighty truck brands don't give a flying rats *** about the little man.. unless it's licensing the Snappy name to bunch of horseshit stocking stuffer "in-name-only" junk products to squeeze out a few more nickels.

I like the quality, but the culture ***** ***.

 

[nicksnothereman]

Snap-On employs 11,500 people whom they pay a living wage to manufacture some of the highest quality tools in the world.

Harbor Freight employs 11,000 people whom they pay minimum or near minimum wage to stock and ring up cheap *** tools manufactured by some Chinaman making $ 0.50 a day who could give a flying **** less about the quality of the product he's putting out.

I get what your saying, professional tools aren't feasible for everyone, hell, I own 4 or 5 HF items myself, but you can't tout them for employing people for dog **** wages to make the CEO mega rich while the employees flirt with poverty.

Do we know this?

 

[wild cowboy]

As a professional mechanic for 30 years, I have tools from almost every tool company under the sun, and sure, some HF stuff is junk, but some of it there isn't enough difference from the tool trucks to even discuss - and overpaying by 2000% on many things really pisses me off.

So I love HF overall, and imports are not necessarily a bad thing, the day an American car company can compete reliability-wise and quality-wise with the likes of Lexus, Toyota, Honda, Acura, Infiniti, Mazda, Subaru or Scion, y'all let me know! (because for the last 35 years, they haven't even been in the ballpark!)

 

[FriendOfYours]

Snap-On employs 11,500 WORLDWIDE

 

[Conductor562]

if you think everything snap-on makes is USA made then where is blue-point made and whay does snap-on have factories in many countries around the world.. better look into it

I know good and well Snap-On, nor Mac, Matco, Cornwell, Proto, or anyone else offers 100% USA made tools in this day and time, but that wasn't my point. It's because companies like HF that companies like Snap-On have to have brands like Blue Point to remain competitive. It's also the reason affordable USA brands like Craftsman have to offshore to remain competitive.

It's a race to the bottom and companies like HF are sitting on the pole. I see no need to come here and tout them for the great job they're doing at it.

 

[Conductor562]

Do we know this?

I have no idea what a Snap-On employee in Taiwan makes, but I know the ones in this country aren't making $7 an hour like most of HF's are.

But hey, the have managers and corporate people that make enough to eat on

 

[jcfields]

.

 

[nicksnothereman]

I have no idea what a Snap-On employee in Taiwan makes, but I know the ones in this country aren't making $7 an hour like most of HF's are.

But hey, the have managers and corporate people that make enough to eat on

Well...that still doesn't mean they're not struggling to pay their bills. Even if they're making 15-20 bucks an hour that still doesn't mean it's a "living wage", depends on a lot of things. Do we know the spread for any of these companies tool truck or not?

 

[Conductor562]

Has it occurred to you that—if the middle class in this country gave its money to the middle class, instead of giving most of it to the rich, who hoard most of it and send the rest overseas—you'd be able to afford to pay those "high" made in the USA prices? That you'd have more money, your neighbor would have more money, that that money might be worth more? It's not like our economy isn't big enough to sustain its own manufacturing. It's not like there isn't enough wealth in the country to go around, that we need this highly stratified social structure to maintain order.

Everyone's always waiting for the politicians to save the economy for us. Like the rich and the powerful have any incentive to benefit anyone but the rich and the powerful. If the middle class wants to be saved, it needs to save itself.

The alternative was never no jobs, it was better jobs. Capitalism in its ideal form relies on educated consumers, because only educated consumers can make rational decisions in their own self-interest. Unfortunately, few are educated in any sense but the shortest-term, what-saves-me-money-right-now sense, so here we all are.

Not everyone is going to have a skilled job some day. Partly because we only need so many doctors and lawyers and engineers and technicians, partly because not everyone is cut out for that sort of thing. Used to be that a good work ethic would take you a long ways in a manufacturing job. Now retail and service jobs are about all that's left. What happens when those are all automated away or replaced with online commerce? Everyone without a college degree just starves and dies, I suppose.

I don't think you read the whole thread. Let me fill you in on what you've obviously missed. HF and companies like them are doing this country a great service peddling their junk with near slave labor. I mean, come on man, who wants to pay more for a ratchet made in America by Americans when you can buy a cheap ************* for less. It's simple economics man. Why do we need Snap-On when we have HF

 

[Conductor562]

Well...that still doesn't mean they're not struggling to pay their bills. Even if they're making 15-20 bucks an hour that still doesn't mean it's a "living wage", depends on a lot of things. Do we know the spread for any of these companies tool truck or not?

No, I don't know. But I know a company paying it's employees twice minimum wage or more is trying a hell of a lot harder to give its employees a quality of life than one paying half that.

 

[FriendOfYours]

I don't think you read the whole thread. Let me fill you in on what you've obviously missed. HF and companies like them are doing this country a great service peddling their junk with near slave labor. I mean, come on man, who wants to pay more for a ratchet made in America by Americans when you can buy a cheap ************* for less. It's simple economics man. Why do we need Snap-On when we have HF

Who said that? I sure didn't. This was NOT meant to bash Snap-On in any way

When I needed a good framing nailer while my bostitch was being repaired, and couldn't afford a name brand, I went to HF and got one that would serve it's purpose. I wouldn't have been able to work that whole week without it. Could I have bought used? Sure, but no warranty and the pawn shops around here are more minimum wage chain stores.

I have plenty of tool truck tools. I was saying that HF has it's place and for broke *** fools who NEED to fix something themselves, because they can't pay someone else, it's a good thing

 

[smitty33]

HF has its place just as Ikea does. If SO or HD want to compete with HF and they have the means to do so, then great. Competition at the top or bottom, is a win for customers and employment. According to online reviews, employees are happy with the pay and schedule flexibility, but hate management.

Sent from my phone.

 

[Sleipnir]

Sure kinda seemed like your saying non "anglo" people cant work as hard. Its how people treat each other that matters.

People will always search for a deal. Looking at a new tv? Want the best bang for your buck. COO doesnt matter then, just quality. Vizio is mediocre at best but has a lot of value. Thats what people want.

 

[IanG]

Conversely, how many technicians struggle to make ends meet because Snap On tools are expensive, given credit much too easily, and load up on tools before they have even made a decent paycheck? Probably far more than 11,000 . I would argue that some of the HF tools are far from POS and range from barely adequate to very good. The Taiwanese made tools in HF and outside of HF provide exceptional value in my opinion. I like to purchase USA made tools too and have recently but when you only use a certain tool 1-2 times a year, its hard to justify the premium.

 

[Fretters]

Sure kinda seemed like your saying non "anglo" people cant work as hard.

Or make quality items.

Not meaning to stir the pot here, but this "Made in the USA" obsession is exactly that. An obsession, and one without real merit. We mourn the fact somewhat that our manufacturing industry is a mere shadow of its former self, but we sure as hell don't believe that reviving "Made in England" or "Made in UK" labelled gear would necessarily lead to better kit, and we definitely don't obsess over it. We turned out some of the best steel products on earth for years, yet we also know full well that we have our fair share of half arsed work shy wonders who couldn't make a rod round if they hammered it through a round hole. Between unions, worker expectations, wages, manufacturing costs and consumers, the market is what it is through evolution. If people don't agree with the large companies principles, spend more money locally and stop using them.

Shite is shite no matter what country it's produced in, and each country is perfectly capable of producing it's own fair share of tat. Regarding the homegrown quality debacle, one example which is a perfect example from the English/American viewpoint. Record. Their old, English produced gear is classed as being some of the best around, quality wise. From which country was the company who took them over from? Since then, they've all but disappeared in name and the quality is **** nowadays compared to what it was. It ain't just Asian countries who can turn out ****.

Like I say, not intending to stir the pot, but give it a rest with all this bunkum.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

SO...
11,500 EMPLOYEES... according to this, lets not forget to add in 3,292 US Franchisee's and 340 Canadian..
http://www.entrepreneur.com/franchises/snapontools/282805-0.html#

 

[signcrafter]

HF has it's spot in the world. I have some of their stuff, some has worked good, some has been thrown right in the trash because it was pure junk. I don't bash them but I also know where they fit in and don't really praise them either. Although I love my HF cement mixer!

But the OP started a thread to talk about how great HF is for employing people at minimum wage jobs. That is a long stretch. HF is what it is. A tool company that import and sells cheap tools. Some work good enough, some don't.

Did you guys know WI has a HF day? http://blog.harborfreight.com/harbor-freight-tools-day/.

“In proclaiming Friday, July 8, 2011 Harbor Freight Tools Day in the State of Wisconsin, I welcome their two new stores in Racine and Oshkosh as they join the company’s seven other locations in our state,” said Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker. “Having nine Harbor Freight Tools stores in Wisconsin not only brings us new jobs but also offers very affordable tools that help our small business owners, independent contractors and skilled tradespeople continue to do their work and earn a good living in Wisconsin.”

Almost sounds word for word what the OP is saying!

 

[Sheriff Roscoe]

Sorry, not bashing but I will shop elsewhere

 

[Fretters]

Sorry, not bashing but I will shop elsewhere

Sounds like my evaluation of our equivalent, namely B&Q. By eck, our Gert convinced me to go in there the other week for the first time in yonks. What an overpriced tat shovelling hell hole that place is. She wondered why I literally walked out vowing never again.

 

[bczygan]

I find this to be an extremely flawed view. Sure HF employs people, I don't think anybody would dispute that. But if HF didn't exist, how many US jobs would there be instead? I'll bet dollars to doughnuts it would be a larger number.

And if you're talking about supporting the largest employer you should be defending one of the big box stores, as they employ far more than HF.

This is also incorrect.

We live in a global economy. Either another foreign countries manufacturing base, with cheap labor, would fill the gap (Most likely), or nothing would be available. US manufacturing could not produce tools at that price point and quality level.

That isn't to say it would never be possible. Given a situation where our economy has sunk to a low level, and our currency devalued enough, it might be possible at some point, that relative to other economies, our manufacturing would be the cheap alternative.

I think things are exactly as they should be.

The global economy and free market makes sure that things are done efficiently on a global scale.

As an example, do you think that breaking up of ships for scrap should be done in the US? It is possible to do it, but not economically feasible. To make it so, you would have to find Americans willing to work for third world wages and in third world conditions.

You should be extremely thankful that we have access to tools of this quality and price point. And even more thankful that there are people in other parts of the world willing to do the work to make it so.

There are actually two ways that Americans could have these jobs in a world economy. The first was described above, where we could set up a class of pay and work conditions here in the US, that matches the China model, and offer those jobs. The other is for Americans to go to places like China and work the jobs there. Both these are ridiculous and unworkable.

The idea that these "jobs" could be brought here, but magically transformed to American jobs with our pay, benefits and work conditions, without raising prices, is also absurd.

This isn't totally a static situation.though. Foreign costs and quality are rising. American consumers, willing to pay more for US goods are increasing. And the cost of production in the US is lowering in places because of technology and lower wages.

I like the variety of options. Would hate to go back to the days of protectionism. We couldn't anyway. Countries are interdependent in too many ways. Nationalism is an artifice much like sports team loyalty.

 

[isr2kba]

To the OP's original point. Although I don't know anything about the compensation package offered to HF employees, I doubt it's minimum. I infer this because in the 10 or so years that I've been going to my local HF, at least half the employees are still there.

In contrast the local fast food burger joint turns over the entire staff in what seems like a single year.

Individually or even as a small group of tool whores, we don't have a lot of control over geo-economic evolution -- we can only make the best decisions for ourselves and our families.

Personally I think the political hacks in WI got the right spin. The HF jobs are nice, but the real deal is providing small business and individuals with the opportunity to generate similar revenue with relatively less capital expenditure on tools.

 

[warmpancakes]

Conversely, how many technicians struggle to make ends meet because Snap On tools are expensive, given credit much too easily, and load up on tools before they have even made a decent paycheck? Probably far more than 11,000 . .

you seem to forget the Housing crash a few years ago, way to many people buy things they cannot afford, Id say 90% of people live well beyond their means

 

[diggerrick]

Don't forget about the sales and payroll taxes they generate.

 

[tomsmith]

If Canadian Tire, Princess Auto etc. didn't exist, my tool collection would be pretty pitiful.

For our American neighbours, I imagine that would be the case if HF didn't exist too.