Why is everyone obsessed with U.S.A. Tools

[bmwpowere36m3]

Availability/nostalgia/traditional/emotion

What was the availability of foreign-made tools to Americans 1 or 2 generations ago? Combine that with poorer quality Asian tools and more expensive/harder to source Europeans tools... made American tools the choice for Americans. Those traditions/beliefs passed down as well. Case in point, it's hard for some people to try/use a Taiwan or China or India or where-ever made tool.

I'm sure for as many good tools made in US, there were equal poor quality ones. If I was living in Germany, I've sure the same could be said for Stahlwille... "the Snap-On of Germany"


For me, the function and quality of the tool is #1... if its made in the US, great... Murica, pride. However I have no qualms buying Swiss, German, Taiwan, etc... At the same token, I have to balance performance with cost. That means buying "lesser quality" tools sometimes, so I can have $ for better ones used often.

 

[geartow]

Read the steel thread(post #42)then you will see why you don't want chinese made tools.

Says noting about steel.

 

[drink]

I'm 20 years old, so I pretty much missed the age where any good tool was made in the U.S.A., never owned any USA made craftsman or anything. A lot of people rant here when a tool isn't made in America. I buy a lot of snap on, Matco and Cornwell. I think Matco and snap on are on the same level quality wise. I definitely notice snap on has much more USA made products than Matco. To me they both work the same and Matco is cheaper, so I've been buying more Matco lately. I definitely like seeing USA on my tools but it doesn't really matter.

So what I'm asking is, do people believe that USA tools perform better than tools made in other countries? Or are people upset that tool trucks want the same money when it's made in another country?

Not trying to start a ******* contest, asking for people's personal opinions. No one is right or wrong.

When I was younger I had a variety of tools that were made wherever they were made, and I had no idea of what a quality tool was. A lot of the wherever tools ended up broken (come to think of it they all broke). My neighbor's wife worked at Sears and she gave him a nice set of Craftsman USA tools. It was very unlikely they would break but if they did break Sears would replace them without a receipt and without a hassle. Soon after I purchased my first set of Craftsman USA tools and I still have them. The only thing that broke was the ratchets over time and Sears always replaced them. I became a firm believer in paying more than the made anywhere tools for quality Craftsman USA tools.

As the years passed I eventually began buying other USA tools. At the time I didn't know the other USA brands were being made by the same people either. The main thing about the quality USA tools is they were superior to the made anywhere tools I had encountered, and they had earned quite a reputation for being the best.

Years later I spoke with a man that said his wife was unemployed because her job at the USA tool factory had left our soil to be made elsewhere. Not only were the USA tools the best but buyers of them were helping the support American workers. Helping to support our own people is another reason that made the USA tools the best. Think about how your parents were able to support you when you were growing up because they had a way to make a living.

When the government opened up trade and lowered economic defenses it was a recipe for disaster to a lot of American factories. Global factories got cheaper labor elsewhere. A lot of people voted for politicians who did these things and they probably had no clue what they were doing when they gave them their vote.

Then what some of describe as corporate greed took its toll on American workers. Riding a customer base built on a good reputation while dropping quality and warranty service must have made them think they could make a lot of money. Slipping in offshore tools and leaving the USA price tags made them dream of higher margins also. They could care less about what became of the American workers as long as they took their money. Those who tried to compete and tried to employ Americans could not because of the drastic difference in the cost of the offshore products. Now a lot of American factories are shut down and some say about a third of our population is on some sort of government assistance.

 

[drink]

Some of the USA tools I have are designed to be able to withstand working conditions better than other tools. One thing I noticed was how they were made to withstand heat while wrenching. As I was working on some stuff a few days ago I noticed how my tools had heated up from turning the fasteners. My USA tools handled them easily. They are made out of superior steel compared to other tools.

A lot of people get stuck in a position where they need a tool to get a job done and they buy whatever is on the store shelf. They pay the price when they need it. A lot of people now could care less about where it is made when they buy stuff as long as they get it as cheap as possible.

With corporate greed seeking higher margins causing poor quality and lifetime warranty ending with the short life of the product it ruins a product's reputation. When consumers don't care where it is made and will not be willing to pay it makes a market difficult to survive in. You might refer to them as Generation Rip Off and Generation Who Cares What Happens To You.

 

[justanengineer]

They also pump out incredible huge loads of unskilled (if you can even call it that) sold as h1b high skilled. Anyways they pump them out because there’s opportunities there and they know it. I’d argue, the shortage of labor is because of the outsourcing and the importing (h1b huge fraud).

Tell me, would you advise your kids to go into IT? or STEM?

Employment is a mixed bag wherever you go, our schools stateside perpetuate exactly the same fraud youre accusing foreign ones of. Not to knock any generation or anyone in particular, but I've been bitten pretty equally from both sides of the pond by new hires. Even at the colegiate level here today many administrations push teachers to pass the kids through to maintain their "success" rate (common metric for ranking colleges btw, personally I'd rather see graduate salaries), other statistics, and to keep parents happy. I've dealt with many BSME grads that couldnt handle a basic thermo problem, barely knew one CAD package, couldnt read a print, had no clue about design methodology, and in many cases couldnt even dress properly (wearing a blazer over a polo, cargo pants, and sneakers is NOT interview appropriate for most $75k+ starting engineering positions IMHO, "but thats what Professor So-n-So said is normal today"). Sorry for the side rant, education is a pet peeve of mine as my father was a metallurgist turned shop teacher, and I've also known some dam good guys who worked their way up to engineering from drafting only to have a lack of degree held against them during cutbacks when a lack of skill shouldve been held against a few rather useless degree holders.

To answer your 2nd, I would tell my kids to find their own balance between earning a good living and being happy. If that involves a STEM field then great for them, so long as theyre owning up to their responsibilities and not living off the system I'm good with anything. I've got friends and family in the trades who have done exceptionally well financially for themselves, so I'm not going to push them to or away from anything so long as theyve got a realistic goal. A STEM field was the best choice for me, doesnt mean it is for others.

 

[justanengineer]

Welp I posted an article earlier which showed that most dollars spent on Chinese goods don't even leave the US. Where something is manufactured is a relatively minor part of how much a product costs. When you buy a product, you're paying marketing people, transportation people, middlemen, etc.

Mostly price, but some supply chain reasons too. But the cost is only reduced so much. Design and marketing are often done in the host countries as culturally they may be thought to understand the market better than someone in China (for example). And obviously transportation cannot be offshored.

Technically correct on all counts. Spend $1 on consumer products and with small margins most of that dollar will stay here for the near term. The first problem with that thought is that over decades those percentages add up and as we've seen, a big chunk of our wealth disappears overseas. The second problem is that most of those middlemen add little/no real value, theyre more of a necessary evil (sorry, bad terminology, not knocking them). Business accountants that are kept on-staff are a great example, they enable value to be generated by helping prevent loss and organizing the company finances but dont actually generate value bc they're not bringing in money.

Not to disagree but add to your point about manufacturing overseas, something that is also often forgotten by Americans is that our economy is rather small compared to the rest of the world. Quite often its not a matter of US businesses wanting to make something cheaper to sell in the US so much as it is to sell cheaper around the world, bottom line US price often being insignificant part of that. China specifically is a rather interesting example - world's biggest economy by most accounts yet they have some of the most extreme protectionist policies. Until about a decade ago, if you wanted to manufacture or sell in China their govt usually required you partner with a Chinese company, share trade secrets, and made it simple for knockoffs - a few of the world's current largest manufacturers started that way while fully owned Chinese govt entities. To this day, good luck being a foreigner who wants a Chinese patent, they'll find a Chinese company to file a patent before granting yours and give it away - its downright dirty. I could go on but again sorry, sidetracked again.....

 

[justanengineer]

I appreciate your response, but I'm still not persuaded. Your arguments are mostly "you're wrong" with an anecdote about your own experience, but no other sources.

I want to add to justanengineer: I really appreciate that you're giving this a lot of thought. You're a smart guy, and I know you're also trying to make the best choices with the information you have, same as I am. It's clear that you have lots of first-hand experience on this topic, which I don't. I don't think I'm a snob, at least I hope I'm not. I guess I sound a lot more confident than I am about this subject. I appreciate the discussion.

"There's three kinds of lies - Lies, damned lies, and statistics." JMO but I believe that largely to be true in most matters with the internet today. No, you won't find me giving links or references to online sources and I can understand the frustration caused by that, but if you want to fact check me feel free. The great and terrible part about the internet is you can find pretty solid evidence of dam near anything imagineable including UFOs, doesnt mean anybody is right or wrong in any discussion.

I appreciate the words and followup discussion, and suspect in reality we'd agree on more than disagree. I'm sure youre not a snob on most things and likely wouldnt think of you as one, its just too easy to come off that way when discussing jobs/incomes/etc on the net, and everybody has their bias/snobbery about somethings ---> many chain store bought food items simply arent good enough for me!

to anyone who cares enough to have an opinion on the matter either way.

 

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

China specifically is a rather interesting example - world's biggest economy by most accounts yet they have some of the most extreme protectionist policies. Until about a decade ago, if you wanted to manufacture or sell in China their govt usually required you partner with a Chinese company, share trade secrets, and made it simple for knockoffs - a few of the world's current largest manufacturers started that way while fully owned Chinese govt entities. To this day, good luck being a foreigner who wants a Chinese patent, they'll find a Chinese company to file a patent before granting yours and give it away - its downright dirty. I could go on but again sorry, sidetracked again.....

Yes agreed on all of this, and our policy should push on China to have more "reciprocal" trade policies. However, I am still not a protectionist because I believe that protectionism will just hurt people (make them poorer) rather than help people.