why is it so hard to hire someone

[laser3kw]

don't know what it is about this town. When I went to build a building last year, I called or emailed 8 different contractors. 1 set up an appointment and never showed up. 1 showed up and basically listened, then told me that they typically don't do garages (I respect that honesty) The last showed up and did a great job with everything and got the job. My prayers were answered.
Now, I have been trying to get an electrician to run service from my house to my new building, 50 feet away.
Either they show up DRUNK (reeking of alcohol - in the afternoon) to look at the job or they just don't return phone inquiries or they show up look at the job, tell you that it's a easy job, they will quote it right away and then you never hear from them again and they won't respond to phone calls (going on 4 weeks). Is work that plentiful around here and they don't need work? I haven't even got a quote yet!
I am about ready to just do it myself! I have electrical skills, I just don't know "code". Place like this has the support to point me right.
Rant done - you may proceed.

 

[uniballer]

Damn, bad neighborhood or what? Work ethic is gone where you live!

 

[pattenp]

You'll save a lot of $$ doing it yourself. Post up info for what you want and what your service is to supply the new building. You'll get a lot of help.

 

[laser3kw]

thanks for the sympathy.
Actually, I live in the quiet, nice, rural outskirts.
Pattenp:
I started out here months ago and you along with many other gave advice on where I should be at and what to look for and what to expect. I have gauged the applicants according to what has been learned here. The couple of people that have shown up laid out what they would do and they have been right in line with what I expect. Great! Now just getting a quote or someone to DO the work! sheesh!
If I do it myself I will:
get permit
Comm Ed will upgrade my house service to 200 amp (free)
I will swap my house panel to a 200 amp
run a 100 amp service to the building
trench, 2" pvc in trench, direct burial (size?)
100 amp panel in building
outside light, inside light, 1 GFI outlet
get permit signed off.
The only problem is, if I up grade to 200 amp, the meter sock has to be changed out, so I need a licensed electrician? If true then why not have him do the whole thing? endless loop?
PS how big should the pipe coming down from the weather head be and what size wires should go down said weather head for 200 amp? Physically what should the outside diameter of the wires going down the weather head be? What is going down my current weather head is two to three times the size of the wires Comm Ed supplies from the pole.

 

[SiGmA_X]

We can do a service upgrade at my folks beach house in Northern Washington with just a special DIY permit with the county. It costs more, and the inspector gives you more input. But it costs a hell of a lot less than paying an electrician to re wire a house and an addition, detached shed and well house!

 

[Chipmunk]

Some people just don’t want to work. I can mow my lawn in one hour with my riding mower. Two years ago I advertised for someone to mow my lawn during the summer as we are gone all summer. A kid about 17 years old came over to look the situation over. He told me he had to have $70.00 per time if he could use my mower and I paid for the gas.

I asked him if was going to have a team of lawyers from New York mow my lawn. He looked at me like I was senile, asking “what”? I said I could hire an attorney for less than $70.00 an hour. He said “whatever man”, then walked backed to his daddy’s BMW on the street.

I don’t know where he’s going to college, but I hope they soak the **** out of the little ******* then flunk him out at the end of his third year.

 

[spotco2]

It's the same way down here. We've been doing a remodel on a house since November. We have been about down to just having floors sanded and refinished and last month figured out the galvanized pipes are all about rotted and stopped up, so it's going to have to be replumbed. We have been trying to find someone to give us a price on the floors for almost 2 months. Some show and measure but never call back with a price or some just never show. Same deal with plumbers. Almost 2 months and not a single price.

Same goes for my new shop at the house. Multiple builders called to price out a 30x30x10 with a pad. Less than half show up, only 3 actually give me a price and 2 were almost $5,000 more than the third.

 

[wssix99]

I'm having the same problem downtown. Unless money is on the table, people won't pay attention. The world is different now - the guys who used to do quotes are now in the field swinging a hammer and people need to stay 100% utilized in order to make a profit. (The good part of that is that prices come down, as a result.)

The bigger jobs will always get their attention.

For a small job like that, you'll probably be best off by negotiating an hourly rate and paying that rather than waiting for a fixed price and formal estimate. Offer same day cash payment for the work and that should move you higher up on the list, etc.

 

[Sureshot]

Same goes here. It is a nightmare of pimpley faced kids charging top dollar.

 

[matt151617]

Same here. People don't return calls, those that do either want way too much or I don't trust them (all-trades). I always end up learning how to do it myself. It happened with electrical, it happened with tile, and it happened with insulation. In the end it might not be done 100% perfect, but I save a bunch of money, learn a new skill, and usually end up with the proper tools to do it myself next time.

I've seen several projects done by 'professionals' that were horrific; shortcuts, crappy materials, etc.

The best advice I can give you is to either start reading books or how-tos on the internet, or find a friend/co-worker that knows the basics and can show you. Basic electrical is not that hard, and career electricians usually get into the commercial side of things, which is much more complicated (but you don't have to worry about that).

 

[pattenp]

I'm more familiar with buried services and for 200A service usually 3 conductor 4/0 aluminum is used with 2" conduit. I'm guessing for aerial drop they may use 2/0 copper which would fit in conduit as small as 1 1/2".

...........
PS how big should the pipe coming down from the weather head be and what size wires should go down said weather head for 200 amp? Physically what should the outside diameter of the wires going down the weather head be? What is going down my current weather head is two to three times the size of the wires Comm Ed supplies from the pole.

 

[77thor]

A lot of contractors aren't interested in 'small' jobs nowadays.

 

[laser3kw]

wow! thanks for the support! It does look like it is a common problem.
as far as my project, I currently have a 100 amp coming in overhead. The Comm ed wires are small compared to the 3 wires going down the weather head.

I'm guessing for aerial drop they may use 2/0 copper which would fit in conduit as small as 1 1/2".

I am trying to determine if the three coming down are big enough to carry the 200 amp upgrade. If I need to upsize them then I may need a bigger weather head and down pipe. The larger meter socket is next. I have a 200 amp panel to replace the 100 amp in the house. The 100 amp will then go to the garage. I want to trench from the house to the garage and lay 2" pvc.
What are my wire options for the 100 amp run? The total run will be about 75 feet. I have read a bunch of similar installs here on GJ and understand that if I can deal with slightly less amperage I can use a mobile home feeder and a 95 amp breaker. If I want the full 100 amp what size (and how many) wire should be use? Is there a mobile home feeder large enough?

 

[theamcguy]

Rather than hiring an electrical contractor direct, go to a company that does home improvements. Tell him what you want and he'll source the people to do it. I gave up years ago dealing with individuals now I have one guy and he sources the people. Yeah it costs a few bucks more, but the job gets done usually on my schedule.

 

[Blue]

I'm near Sycamore IL, and have had good luck with Finney Electric. Don't know if they'd come up to Rockford, but its worth a shot. (815) 895-4480

 

[pattenp]

If you are thinking aluminum 2-2-2-4 Mobile Home Feeder, it's good to 90 amps. For the full 100A you'll need #1 aluminum. The next size up in MHF is 2/0-2/0-2/0-1 which is good up to 135A

 

[laser3kw]

Some good news- I took the panel off the load center in the house and got a surprise. The wires from the meter to the panel are 1/0copper! So I guess that tells me the wires in the weather head are 1/0 also. That means I can upgrade to 200 amp service with out reworking that end. Hoo-rah! But I Looked at the meter and can't figure out if it is a 200 amp meter. Can anyone tell form the picture? I picked out the obvious 240v & 60hz, but the other nomenclature -WAG?

 

[pattenp]

CL200 is a 200 amp meter. 1/0Cu is 175 amps, 2/0Cu is 200 amps.

 

[laser3kw]

CL200 is a 200 amp meter.

yes! That means the meter and socket won't need change out.

1/0Cu is 175 amps, 2/0Cu is 200 amps.

buzz kill - I don't suppose 2/0 will fit thru that opening in the panel or down the weather head?
OR could I use a 175 amp main breaker for the house panel and then run a 100 amp breaker to service the garage?

 

[Aceman]

If you're doing this yourself, you need to look up your local codes. I see you are from Illinois, I know Chicago and other parts of Illinois are pipe only, no Romex. I don't know what other wacky rules there are, so I'm going to stay out of this one.

 

[1tonstroke]

If that third picture is your load panel in your house it is only three wire, if you upgrade it you will need a ground as well after you leave the meter base. As Ace said Illinois, Chicago is pretty strict about what they allow ie. conduit ran through the house instead of normal romex. Check with your local codes but I'm positive you will need four wires exiting your meter base. Good luck

 

[wyliesdiesels]

....I currently have a 100 amp coming in overhead. The Comm ed wires are small compared to the 3 wires going down the weather head. I am trying to determine if the three coming down are big enough to carry the 200 amp upgrade....

The overhead PoCo wires are smaller because they're a different class of wire called 'free air' and have a higher ampacity than the same size building wire. You do need to make sure that the overhead drop is the right size for 200a service. Are u trying to do this upgrade incognito without notifying the PoCo or getting permits?

If that third picture is your load panel in your house it is only three wire, if you upgrade it you will need a ground as well after you leave the meter base. As Ace said Illinois, Chicago is pretty strict about what they allow ie. conduit ran through the house instead of normal romex. Check with your local codes but I'm positive you will need four wires exiting your meter base. Good luck

If there's no disconnect at the meter base, then 3-wire is ok. It looks like there isn't a disconnect because of the large solid cu wire going into the neutral bar in the panel, which i assume goes to ground rods...

 

[48Classic]

thanks for the sympathy.
Actually, I live in the quiet, nice, rural outskirts.
Pattenp:
I started out here months ago and you along with many other gave advice on where I should be at and what to look for and what to expect. I have gauged the applicants according to what has been learned here. The couple of people that have shown up laid out what they would do and they have been right in line with what I expect. Great! Now just getting a quote or someone to DO the work! sheesh!
If I do it myself I will:
get permit
Comm Ed will upgrade my house service to 200 amp (free)
I will swap my house panel to a 200 amp
run a 100 amp service to the building
trench, 2" pvc in trench, direct burial (size?)
100 amp panel in building
outside light, inside light, 1 GFI outlet
get permit signed off.
The only problem is, if I up grade to 200 amp, the meter sock has to be changed out, so I need a licensed electrician? If true then why not have him do the whole thing? endless loop?
PS how big should the pipe coming down from the weather head be and what size wires should go down said weather head for 200 amp? Physically what should the outside diameter of the wires going down the weather head be? What is going down my current weather head is two to three times the size of the wires Comm Ed supplies from the pole.

Just an FYI, I live in Georgia and rewired my parents whole house including the panel wires and outlet. Later we find out the the aluminum 2o wire was later needed to be replaced due some animal chewing on the main. Georgia Power came out to pull the meter and I talked to the tech about replacing the meter box. He just call the Georgia Power office and got a box for free directly from Georgia Power...

 

[laser3kw]

Thanks for all the replies.

As Ace said Illinois, Chicago is pretty strict about what they allow ie. conduit ran through the house instead of normal romex

No Romax here. The purposed service is to leave the house panel, thru conduit, trenched to the garage. I will use the correct direct burial wire needed)

Are u trying to do this upgrade incognito without notifying the PoCo or getting permits?

Wouldn't think of it. This will be a permitted job. Actually, I've had Comm Ed out here already to tell me what I could do as far as service from the pole, upgrade the existing and so on. The only viable option was to for CE to upgrade to 200 amp to the weather head, home owner upgrade the house panel and run a service to the garage.

If there's no disconnect at the meter base, then 3-wire is ok. It looks like there isn't a disconnect because of the large solid cu wire going into the neutral bar in the panel, which i assume goes to ground rods...

You are correct, no disconnect at the meter or outside.What you see at the panel is the leads coming direct through the wall from the meter. The meter is on the wall directly behind the panel. Copper rod seen goes back outside to ground rod (thru conduit to ground)
Thanks again for all the input. I really think I can do this once I know all the in's and out's.

 

[1tonstroke]

My bad I just assumed there was a disconnect which would still have a ground rod driven at it. You might check out the mikeholt forums they have a lot of good illustrations of electrical installations.

 

[frankush]

In Chicago, 200 amp service equals 3/0 copper in a 2". Can you downsize the main breaker? Yes, but be prepared for sticker shock. 200A breakers are common and therefore cheap. 175A breaker will cost you more that a 200 in most places. There are tons of people around this area that think they are electricians, when they are not at the bar. Pretty common to finish up at noon and come back the next day. If ComEd is going to change out your service drop for nothing, spend the money you saved and put in a new meter fitting, panel and service riser. Speaking as an electrical contractor, bidding jobs costs money. So, many contractors are picky about who they'll bid to. No one is going to be cheap, unless you find someone to do it as a sider. If I was bidding it and you offered to dig the trench, I'd be happy and you'd save a few bucks. Just remember that it must be deep enough to meet code requirements no matter what you find. That might mean large rocks or old foundations too. Let the electrician pull the permits and require him to be present for his inspection.

 

[laser3kw]

thanks Frankush
I plan on running a 175 amp main on the incoming to the house panel and a 100 amp in the house panel to service the garage. From what I have researched, I shouldn't have to change out the meter or service riser or incoming wires.

Speaking as an electrical contractor, bidding jobs costs money. So, many contractors are picky about who they'll bid to. No one is going to be cheap, unless you find someone to do it as a sider.

I understand. Not bidding jobs cost even more money. If a shope is so busy they can't take the small job ok. But if you can't keep your crews working, sometimes a few small jobs fill the void. I don't feel as I am being cheap or wanting something for nothing. The conversations rarely get to the specifics of a job, let alone money. I guess this is why "homeowners" end up doing it themselves.

 

[Jinks]

Florida has the same problem with hiring & it's not all small job related. In the last two years I've added a summer kitchen to my patio, a bench to my shower, & a mini-split A/C to my shop.

The summer kitchen was a $5000/$6000 job not including the grill, sink, or faucet. Not only could I not get quotes, I kept getting people telling me I couldn't do it the way I wanted. Finally did it myself for $1500/$1600 + grill, sink, faucet.

The shower bench was quoted at $500 by a guy that appeared friendly & honest. We set the installation at his convenience, he postponed, we accepted, he didn't call back. I did it myself for about $100.

I called 8 or 10 A/C companies for the mini-split. One never responded, one came out & spent an hour then promised a quote the next day. Never heard back from him. Nearly all of them claimed to be installing them everywhere, & argued with me about what size &/or location I wanted. The company that did the installation didn't argue, but made the same claims of installing lots of mini-splits. The installers (Larry, Moe, & Curly) had to buy a flaring tool in order to get started, had to borrow my hole saw to get through the wall, & had obviously never seen a mini-split. They did get it where I wanted, but the installation is anything but neat.

I keep a card file of quality workmen & still worry that they will no longer be there when I need them. Of course I'm an optimist, I still believe that a good honest craftsman could make a killing by just being honest with customers & showing up on time.

 

[scarpozzi]

I just bought a new 'used' truck...the thing is nice, but wasn't exactly what I wanted because I couldn't justify paying another $10k for the extras. I've been calling up concrete contractors and noticing quickly that their trucks are far newer and shinier than mine.

.....so I went to college, got 2 degrees and have worked full time since I was 19. I guess many of them probably work out of those trucks, but something still isn't adding up since the guys doing the quotes typically aren't the laborers. It's making me think I got in the wrong business.

 

[James-W]

Just a suggestion, if you get a new service to the garage the power company will most likely run the main power lines to the garage for free. The drawback is that you will have a meter charge every month. On the plus side, you won't have to replace your house electrical service. Just something to consider.

 

[smokey0810]

We have become a nation of 'entitlement' and no work ethic, especially the younger generation...And I am 36.
I normally talk to friends and folks at church, see if they know anyone who does side work, and then keep that in mind for a rainy day.
For my garage build, the whole thing was a package deal with our contractor. He has concrete guys, framers, metal workers and electricians working for him, so all goes pretty smoothly.

 

[Jinks]

I just bought a new 'used' truck...the thing is nice, but wasn't exactly what I wanted because I couldn't justify paying another $10k for the extras. I've been calling up concrete contractors and noticing quickly that their trucks are far newer and shinier than mine.

.....so I went to college, got 2 degrees and have worked full time since I was 19. I guess many of them probably work out of those trucks, but something still isn't adding up since the guys doing the quotes typically aren't the laborers. It's making me think I got in the wrong business.

Good eye! I too have noticed that if a contractor shows up in a shiny new vehicle his price is likely to be higher & his reliability lower. Particularly if yours isn't a really expensive project. I guess they have to cater to the expensive jobs to make the payments on those vehicles.

I've also noticed that if a contractor arrives in a well maintained not new vehicle he's more likely to be back when he says & do a good job. It's just one of the small criteria I use to decide who to hire.

 

[laser3kw]

Woo-Hoo!
Comm Ed told me they will be out within 14 days to upgrade the current pole to house wires to carry 200amp!

Just a suggestion, if you get a new service to the garage the power company will most likely run the main power lines to the garage for free. The drawback is that you will have a meter charge every month. On the plus side, you won't have to replace your house electrical service. Just something to consider.

Went that route first, Comm Ed came out and looked everything over. The new building is to far from the line for a direct drop. I would have to pay for a pole set - in the neighborhood of $2500. The other choice was (me) trench and wire to pole and they would charge $1700 to connect? I don't understand why that charge was so high. Either way the cost of trenching 200 feet and 200 feet of wire (x3) - ouch!
So the 200 amp upgrade is great! As described above, I shouldn't have to mess with the house panel, except to add the 100 amp breaker for the garage (sub panel).

 

[kmk7110]

Some people just don’t want to work. I can mow my lawn in one hour with my riding mower. Two years ago I advertised for someone to mow my lawn during the summer as we are gone all summer. A kid about 17 years old came over to look the situation over. He told me he had to have $70.00 per time if he could use my mower and I paid for the gas.

I asked him if was going to have a team of lawyers from New York mow my lawn. He looked at me like I was senile, asking “what”? I said I could hire an attorney for less than $70.00 an hour. He said “whatever man”, then walked backed to his daddy’s BMW on the street.

I don’t know where he’s going to college, but I hope they soak the **** out of the little ******* then flunk him out at the end of his third year.

Wow. I mowed lawns when i was 12-18 for 25 bucks an hour and i paid for the mower and gas and all the blasted flat tires from the one yard with the darn thorn bushes. I even made business cards and handed them out around the neighborhood. Work ethic pays off... some young adults(i dont want to say kids as im 23 now and that would make me feel old) walk around my neighborhood asking to mow lawns pulling a lawn mower around. Best 30 bucks I spend each time.

Dont mean to stray off course. Just in awe by the 70 bucks without bringing anything of his own.

 

[Eds_tls]

I live in Rockford and We use Wilson Electric for all of our building electric projects.

 

[jawnd393]

The overhead PoCo wires are smaller because they're a different class of wire called 'free air' and have a higher ampacity than the same size building wire. You do need to make sure that the overhead drop is the right size for 200a service. Are u trying to do this upgrade incognito without notifying the PoCo or getting permits?

Years ago I upgraded my previous house to 100 amp. Did it all legal with a permit and inspection. It was a small house with gas heating appliances. The original panel had like 6 circuits I put in a 20 breaker panel. I was surprised when the poco did not upgrade little skinny the lines to the house. It was that current rating in free air thing, they were heavy enough for 100 amps. I should have put in 200 amp.

 

[B964]

Seems many people just don't want to work.
I had the same problem hiring for work. No shows to estimate, estimates with no response to questions etc. One roofer was the father of my wifes friend. He came out and estimated, we talked for an hour about old cars we have like old buds. I left messages for him to do the work with no replies even to my last message that said if you don't want to do it just let me know and I will move on. Nothing. A month later his work truck got fixed at dealer where I work. Adviser tells me later that he dropped my name to see if he could get a discount.

 

[hh76]

Good eye! I too have noticed that if a contractor shows up in a shiny new vehicle his price is likely to be higher & his reliability lower. Particularly if yours isn't a really expensive project. I guess they have to cater to the expensive jobs to make the payments on those vehicles.

I've also noticed that if a contractor arrives in a well maintained not new vehicle he's more likely to be back when he says & do a good job. It's just one of the small criteria I use to decide who to hire.

All trucks start new, so does that mean that their work suffers until they get a few miles on it?

I can see where you are going with the well maintained older vehicle, but completely disagree with the first part. Sometimes volume of work is how they can afford a nice vehicle, and that volume comes from lots of return customers, and referrals.

As far as getting a contractor out to do a small job, it can be tough. As a contractor, I know how tough it can be to make money on a small job, and especially if the customer is not great about explaining what they want. While I don't gouge people, I will charge a little more if I feel the job will cost me a lot of customer hand holding. I have also turned down work becuase I was already busy and didn't want the hassle of a small project.

 

[jvitez]

I don't mind paying lots if I get lots. What seems to have happened in my lifetime is that greed and laziness have been institutionalized. Many contractors will gladly charge lots, and still do really crappy work. WTF!!!!

There is something wrong with the whole concept of contracting. If you buy a fridge and it doesn't perform as expected, the dealer fixes it or gives you a new one. A new car that breaks gets fixed. It's called a warranty, and it's expected.

If a contractor does a shoddy job and you call him on it, he just leaves. And your recourse? None! I'm still dealing with the aftermath of a landscaping nightmare. The contractor was bald faced lier, and cost me many thousands of dollars to redo what he did. I love paying for things twice......

The main issue seems to be that contractors can get away with not being accountable. Shoddy work gets done, and nothing happens. A whole building project is based on the weakest link. If all trade are good except for one, the project still isn't done right. Factory built products work better and are far cheaper than individually made items due to economies of scale, and quality assurance processes like ISO certification. With contractors we have none of this. Something needs to change.

 

[eddie1278]

As an electrician myself I have never met one that is an alcoholic and I worked with a lot of them.

Sounds like you went on Craigslist trying to cheap out. The term "electrician" is thrown out by a lot of people who installed some outlets and light fixtures. And the funny thing is the stuff they claim to be easy makes me the most money fixing. They are just as bad as the armchair internet electricians that give advice.

I served my 4 year apprenticeship and worked in the trade since 1995 and do this daily I am a real trained experienced electrician. I don't get my info from Google like guys in these forums and the youtube "electricians"

Good luck on your project.