Why is this?
- Thread starter Teken
- Start date
It's expensive. http://www.amazon.com/dp/0877657939/?tag=atomicindus08-20
Your library probably has a copy of it.
Your library probably has a copy of it.
sberry
Banned
I will agree with the handbook. Its something I should have. The code is not a very good DIY manual or for learning the how and why.
Jack Davenport
Member
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2010
- Messages
- 9
UL does not dictate design. The design of anything is up to the manufactures and their engineers.
UL tests and LISTS item. UL does not APPROVE anything. Look closely at the next ul tag - it will say UL LISTED.
UL reviews the documents provided, the samples provided and any other thihng the manufacture will provide. The listing is just a listing that means the "item" does what is says it does, is made to a certain standard for that item, and operates the way the engineers say it does.
Anybody remember those 2 wire brown household extension cords that evryone overloads? They are UL Listed
UL tests and LISTS item. UL does not APPROVE anything. Look closely at the next ul tag - it will say UL LISTED.
UL reviews the documents provided, the samples provided and any other thihng the manufacture will provide. The listing is just a listing that means the "item" does what is says it does, is made to a certain standard for that item, and operates the way the engineers say it does.
Anybody remember those 2 wire brown household extension cords that evryone overloads? They are UL Listed
Mickey O
Well-known member
********.
Yes, it is ultimately up to the manufacturer to come up with a complete item to submit to UL for testing, but they MUST make that item perform to UL specifications before they will ever pass the test. Thus, UL decides how it should be before you get a UL sticker. Whatever they want is what the manufacturer does.
And they also come with a sticker explaining exactly how you're supposed to use them WITHOUT overloading them. If you choose to ignore the sticker that's up to you. Without that sticker UL would never approve them.
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So was I. Any 3 prong factory molded plug you find attached to a 12 or 10 gauge cord will be perfectly safe and fine @ 20 amps. There is NO physical difference in the conducting quality of the peices in an L-15 and L-20, either outlet or plug.
sberry
Banned
Sounds like Jack has read the book.
You sure the insulation around those metal prongs can withstand the additional heat generated from the extra 5A? Did you test it?
Yes and yes.
Or to be more specific - UL puts a huge safety factor in their testing. An L-15 is probably fine for 30 amps or more in reality, though you will have additional heat and voltage drop. Probably would work just fine though, but at that point you would be at the far edge of the safety factor.
It doesn't matter who. They all say the same thing and have the same requirements in testing. NEMA and NEC can set the requirements, UL does the testing.
They're all there to protect you from yourself. Like I posted earlier, some people need that, some don't....
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rwhite692
Well-known member
I've seen plenty of toasters with three pronged plugs.
Never seen a toaster with an outlet, though. That would be a rare item, indeed.
Okay. So what's the issue again? The manfucturer is wise not to ask for a label that exceeds the guidelines that are there to protect them from a lawsuit. And even wiser for building a product that according to you far exceeds the minimum requirements for how it is used.
ALL of us, regardless of our stupidity level, are treated as sheep that don't know any better.
That is the point and answer to this entire thread. "Why is the plug this way?" 'Cause they said so, that's why.
okay gotcha. I agree with you there. But remember there the majority of people don't understand electricity as well as you do. Also. There are many people who live close enough to others that a poor decision by an ignorant neighbor could negatively effect them. The whole plug system is there for the lowest common denominator.
Like you said.
I do disagree with that statement. I can walk into home depot and pick up the hardware to build my own cordset and use it how I see fit. Some people are sheep because they have other things they would rather occupy their time with.
I totally agree, and I do that kind of thing all the time! But it's not always 'legal', or in accordance with how the parts were UL approved. That doesn't make it unsafe though, if nobody broke the rules, then we'd never invent anything new!
(and if you haven't noticed I'm totally an extension cord geek
)Another thing worth adding to this thread. I have a 120v welder from Harbor Freight. It's printed right on the front "Input: 120v, 22A". It has a 14ga cord with an 5-15P end. Where am I supposed to plug that in? 
I don't think it's UL approved, and I had to make my own 30A cord/circuit for it, since it always blew a 20A breaker.
I don't think it's UL approved, and I had to make my own 30A cord/circuit for it, since it always blew a 20A breaker.
Yeah, but I can tell you my HF welder didn't comply. The voltage drop through the 14ga cord was terrible and it literally wouldn't work in a dedicated 20A outlet.
sberry
Banned
The 14 is allowed because of the limited duty cycle of the machine, chances are that thing wouldn't work very well with a 6 on it. You may put a dedicated circuit to it with a single dedicated receptacle, 12 wire and up to 30A breaker for these little machines although I would see if it runs from a 20 without tripping first.