Why not employer provided tools?

[nate379]

One of my friends almost got fired from a company for buying tools.

Fire suppression installer (sprinklers). Union job. Company had to provide tools. He went out and bought a few things that would make it easier for him. Better tape measure instead of the Chicom 10ft one, flashlight, etc. Maybe $100 of tools.
Union head cheese did a walk through of a job site one day and that's all it took.

The employer is supposed to supply all of the tools for my work per union agreements. So you get a bucket of garbage as tools. I have always supplied all of my own tools. I have given beat downs to clowns who thought they were entitled to put a hand in my tool box.

 

[indestro]

why was he fired ?

 

[cheap bastard]

My employer cites control of liability for insisting we not use our own tools on what is their responsibility. If an issue arises, they simply replace the tool. If a tool is causing damage due to design, they will modify or eradicate the entire population in the plant.

 

[indestro]

through micromanaging and pettiness morale and productivity are greatly affected

 

[NOZZLEMAN]

Real men own their tools... not somebody else unless it's a wife or girlfriend

 

[rideguru]

I am also in an electrical trade and union shop. We are expected to have tools up to 1 inch and 25 mm. Yes, we have to have both SAE and metric in our boxes. (We do cross work with the mechanics). The employer will
provide specialty tools (special crimpers, torque wrenches - because they ceritfy them on an monthly basis, larger than 1 inch wrenchs, sockets, and such). I have my own battery drill and screwdrivers just so I can have them when I need them. We have the problem of the other shifts stashing speciality tools in their shift locker and locking them up from the other shifts. Can't get management to address the issue.
Our apprentice program for both mechanics and electricians is not bad. Each apprentice at the start of the program is issued an nice set of tools and toolbox and if they complete the 4 year program they keep them.

 

[nate379]

I said almost fired.

why was he fired ?

 

[Deafautotech]

when i started at indy shop in 2003 as internship from my high school.. i had use the 26" blue point bottom box with most of common tools inside that shop has... even Owner/ master ASE tech(former master LEXUS tech) told me i could use his snap on boxes as two lockers on combo KRL1201 and KRL1001... it is full of tools and cases of specialists tools and pullers.. i did use it few times but i had worn out the shop supplied box and tools EVEN Owner had check the tool in blue point box but he open all drawers quick, box already fall down... it made mess area, i had to clean it up and put it back together.. that time i HAD TO get my OWN tools.. so i went to get sears 350 pieces that came with plastic box and four plastic drawers.. it had worked good for me as few month.. when i got more and more serious at indy shop, i got better box that hold all tools and that i can lock it when i left because i only worked there 2-3 days depend how program work between school and indy shop but most of time i worked there three days a week...

one time i did asked the owner if i could borrow the tool to do the job, owner said ok but you need buy one for yourself.. that time i decided to not borrow his tool, i already started investment into tools and never has ask anyone to borrow...

NOW i work for largest ford dealership in Indiana, they provide the four IDS(laptops), specialist tools, manuals, and equipments... techs must provide the tools(service director dont care what you do but he just want techs to do right works)... i am sad that i am only tech who have three toolboxes and most of tools that almost everybody will ask me if i has it... that make me little disppointed because many techs are work there longer but why ask me if i have the tool???

 

[Moose-LandTran]

i am sad that i am only tech who have three toolboxes and most of tools that almost everybody will ask me if i has it... that make me little disppointed because many techs are work there longer but why ask me if i have the tool???

Me too. It gets old quick.

 

[ecotec]

why was he almost fired? easy. his union has a contract. he did not follow the contract. in said contract, is a tool list. he is doing something his union does not allow.

some people think if they do such a thing with their own money, it does not hurt anything. that is not true. it is degrading the contract and hurting conditions. if people start bringing what are supposed to be company tools, it will begin to be expected of them. if the company does not have working tools in quantity enough to do the job, it is the companies problem. the worker should promptly convey what he needs to get the job done and the company should provide it. a companies lack of serviceable tools should not effect the worker's wallet.

one should have the tools on his local's list, and those tools should be in serviceable condition.

 

[MoToys]

Me too. It gets old quick.

That's aggravating but try telling a customer why you will not lend them a tool while you are in their house/ at their place of business doing work. They usually don't understand.

 

[crewchief888]

every heavy eq dealership ive worked at i was expected to have a basic set of tools up to 1 1/4" (sockets & wrenches), and at least a 1/2" dr impact.

3/4" & 1" dr sockets, impacts and larger wrenches were supplied by the dealer, along with larger pullers, prybars, welders, torches, presses, any and all OEM specific special tools.

shop tools were sometimes being used and shared by several people during the day. only one dealership had a tool room witha full time attendant to sign in/out tools.

yes i have my own 3/4" dr impact, sockets to 2 1/4", comb & angle wrenches to 2" along with a preetty good selection of pullers.

always got tired of tracking down what i needed in a shop with 18 mechanics, and 5 service trucks.

 

[AlchemyMetalworks]

It's a practice that's been occuring since day 1 with mechanics and even to a larger extent in other trades going back farther. The highly skilled always own their own tools. As far as debt goes? Each individual is responsible for their own finances in life. That's nobody else responsibility, but your own. Certainly not your employers. Where we run into problems in this country is when each individual stops taking personal responsibility in their lives. When that happens we all want our employers and the government to run our lives and protect us from ourselves. That's not how it should be.

Nobody wants that. What we want is our fair share. WE, the skilled tradesman provides the TRUE value to the business and gets the burden as well as the least ROI.

What's worse is when we own company stock, we are being screwed by the corporate heirarchy for short-term gains, rather than long-term growth. Now get this straight...when you own stock, you are AN OWNER...but you are screwed by hired-help for their own short-term personal gain. Executive compensation bonuses? Golden Parachutes? Yeah...sticking it to the man. That would be US...those of us wearing blue-collars.

Because no stack of papers has EVER made work happen. I can swing a wrench without a PO...but a PO can't swing a wrench. There is a reason why white-collar/administrative staff is called Non Productive Overhead.

But you're right...it's a system that has been around forever...it must be the right way to do things!

 

[xcgates]

I work in an office (USAF) where our only tools used are for computer maintenance. (laptops up through server racks) We are not allowed to bring in our personal tools, but just try to get some specialty tool that makes some given job easier/quicker. These are usually small hand tools, btw.

So some of us just have small bags with a specific connector, cutter, or something. When we had an announced compliance inspection, we tossed some things under the raised floor, and rooted around for it when they left. Heck, we tossed some spare cables under the floor because it is against regs to have boxes of cabling around. They insist everything gets thrown out when it isn't used, then created new. We just cut off damaged ends and re-use the cables in other situations. Either way we are creating our own cables, so we might as well re-use.

::EDIT:: I keep threatening to bring in my own decent cordless drill, and self-supplied bits every time the cordless drill we have runs out of battery using bits that are beyond dull. But that would be a bit harder to get in.

 

[bibman]

I've never worked in automotive/truck/heavy equipment repair like many Garage Journal posters. I have worked in telecommunications/fire alarm/medical equipment repair. For every job I had that required tools the employer provided them, especially specialized tools or test equipment.

There is some debate right now in the medical equipment repair field if employers or employees should provide tools.

For those in the automotive/truck/heavy equipment field have employers ever provided your tools? Would you like the employer to provide tools? Do you have a preference - why?

Same case here, when I worked as a Field Engineer in the Medical Field, Color technologies Field, Microfilm Field, Security Field, POS Field, Large format printer Field, Medical Imaging field, The company always paid for all tools and test equiptment needed for the job. Always felt bad when I told my pals who were mechanics that my tools are provided at no charge. Three of these Employers even let me keep all the hand tools (craftsman, Snap On, Proto, Klein, Excelite, S-K), power tools(Milwaukee, Makita, Dewalt) meters (Fluke, Tripplett), tool boxes(Craftsman, Snap On) and toolcases (Platte, Chicago, Stanley) ... the only thing they demanded back were my badge, the workshirts, and the manuals. The jobs where I did have to provide my own tools were as an electrical apprentice, and as an mobile radio and electronic installation technician for the State Patrol.

 

[Shipfittin]

I own all of my hand tools at work that I use on a regular basis. If there is anything I don't have I can check whatever it is out from one of our tool rooms. Most everything we have is pretty good quality, all USA made. I am not allowed to bring in anything like pneumatics or power tools of any sort. So if I need a hydraulic jack or a reciprocating saw I have to go and check them out.

I usually have a needle gun, 7" sander, 9" bayflex, stone grinder and angle grinder all in my box at any given time. I definitely would not want to have to provide all of those on my own.

 

[Stick Figure]

Just like my skills my tool collection makes me more valuable....if i am fired or quit for some reason, you will not only have to find someone with my abilities but also the tools to do everything that i do there (or lay money for the tools as well as the new employee). Also when i walk into a new job, i may be able to offer more revenue by providing both the tools and the knowledge for a new service to be done in house.

mostly though i'm just stingy, and don't like to share ... if i don't own it i can be told i have to share ... if i do own it i can just laugh at people when they want to borrow something.

 

[mtkst19]

what i do notice is the tools that the company buys--the workers often beat on because it is not coming out of their pockets. My current work im in charge of running the shop. That also means i buy the equipment when needed. We have specialty tools to make life easier- stuff that in most shops would be stuff you buy-- like pneumatic fan clutch remover or heat inductor. Hell, consider company vehicles even as a tool. Every company car i service is beat to hell and back b/c the person driving does not care--it is not their repair bill.

I have to raise hell to make certain tools are put back neatly. I HATE with a passion going into a tool cab and grabbing a tool only to get my hands greasy. Guys are like-- it is a tool, it is going to get dirty. Thats fine. I expect that. but not put back dripping in oil or ungodly dirty. My rebuttal to that theory is you are going to **** again, so why wipe your ***? I understand being a mechanics means you will get dirty. that does not mean being a slob.


i can go on a rant about being neat/clean. floor dry is a pet peeve of mine. It should be used for accidents, not for laziness because you cant put a pan under a car.

 

[timtim2008]

Ive never had and employer to provide my tools. No tools = no work.

 

[nissan_crawler]

For those in the automotive/truck/heavy equipment field have employers ever provided your tools? Would you like the employer to provide tools? Do you have a preference - why?

No they don't, and no, I don't want them to.

I have the tools that I personally like to use. The next 3 guys might do the same job with 3 different tools. Works for them, doesn't mean I like those tools.

I am **** about cleaning my tools and my toolbox. After 8 years, my box looks new. After 8 years, most of them look like they've been pushed into the grand canyon a few times.

The screwdrivers I bought at the same time as another guy...look new. His look like they came out of a used oil bin 20 years ago.

I also have more tools than needed, but I can get the job done quicker, too.

I'll borrow tools, but if it's more than twice, I tell them they need to get one. I do the same, if I have to borrow a tool twice, it's time to buy one.

Theft isn't much of an issue where I work. The other guy on my crew and I go in each other's toolbox all the time if the other isn't around and we need something. No biggie, we just wave the tool in our hand or something when we see each other, so we know.

 

[DanCo]

Why...because you get so-called techs who don't give a **** about tools. My old shop bought a 3 brand new 3/4 IR impact guns. They think its Nascar and just throw the gun under a truck, use ****** fluid as air tool oil. $800 guns that last no more than 2 weeks. Shop tools comes out of our monthly bonuses, and there's 3 guns that all have broken/cracked housing sitting in the tool room. I bought my own 3/4 gun, and I'll be damned if they ask to borrow it. And don't get me started on torque wrenches.

 

[bibman]

I am **** about cleaning my tools and my toolbox. .

That'll keep people from borrowing your tools!! I use Simple Green myself.

 

[HandyManny]

Real men own their tools... not somebody else unless it's a wife or girlfriend

Unfortunately real men are a dying breed

 

[TheCarbideRat]

im lucky to get uniforms, cripes.

 

[PeteMoore]

I started in the RAF

ALL tools were supplied, this had nothing to do with us as engineers/fitters, but as a control and safety factor preventing FOD in an aircraft environment.

When I left, i started working for a Rally Prep company where I was required to provide all my own tooling, which I did, by visiting Mr Snap-On every week and building up whatever I could afford. Luckily I was living rent free and work was only 3 miles from home, so my outgoings were slim to none. Weekends were spent working either at events of prepping for the next event.

When i got my contract sorted for working at Bombardier, my pay-off had come through from the RAF and suddenly my ~£1k snap on collection grew ten fold.

I worked nights there, and although the guys I worked with were spot on, I was a contractor, and therefore an outsider in this festering hole of scumbags. i would come in each day to find another drawer on my box pry'd open and more tools missing.

I stayed there for 3 months until I couldnt handle the thefts any more, and the fact management/police/co-workers wanted nothing to do with it despite knowing who it was stealing my stuff.

I am now working once again in the AV industry, and once again I am back to having an employer that finds a £10 socket set a bit of a stretch. So i supply my own tools, my own drills, ive ply-lined the van, and set myself up in a very efficient role within the company. Unfortunately my independence seems to cause minor issues between me and my boss. I am still being asked to steal the likes of threaded rod from construction sites so our company dont have to purchase it themselves - IMO that is bang out of line, however, it is a job, and in current climes I am only too glad to have one.

 

[crewchief888]

No they don't, and no, I don't want them to.

I have the tools that I personally like to use. The next 3 guys might do the same job with 3 different tools. Works for them, doesn't mean I like those tools.

I'll borrow tools, but if it's more than twice, I tell them they need to get one. I do the same, if I have to borrow a tool twice, it's time to buy one.

Theft isn't much of an issue where I work.

i'm kinda set in my ways of tackling a certain job. like finding ways around not having to remove 100 lbs of covers, wiring harness and hoses to make a 5 minute repair. then again, spending a few minutes removing a component, may save hours of aggravation
i work in the field, alone, and dont have the luxury of borrowing tools from anyone.
back when i worked in the shop full time, if i borrowed something twice, i bought it, as well as finding a tool that would make life much simpler, it got bought.

 

[Az Scooter]

why was he almost fired? easy. his union has a contract. he did not follow the contract. in said contract, is a tool list. he is doing something his union does not allow.

some people think if they do such a thing with their own money, it does not hurt anything. that is not true. it is degrading the contract and hurting conditions. if people start bringing what are supposed to be company tools, it will begin to be expected of them. if the company does not have working tools in quantity enough to do the job, it is the companies problem. the worker should promptly convey what he needs to get the job done and the company should provide it. a companies lack of serviceable tools should not effect the worker's wallet.

one should have the tools on his local's list, and those tools should be in serviceable condition.

It is amazing to me that unions forget that an employees prime job is to make the employer money, and not to take as much money as they can with as little effort as possible.
Just one mans opinion, but then, I am an evil employer.

 

[msnow]

I was just explaining this to some of my friends. I am a contractor of sorts and I own a very extensive set of tools. I do not usually work out of a shop, it is usually all field service work. A company usually flies me in to do a job, could be a 1 hour flight or it could be all the way to china. With that being said I demand a pretty decent rate out on the road but most of my work comes by word of mouth.

Needless to say if a company is going to pay to fly someone in, put them up and pay their rate when that guy gets there he better be able to do the job. If the problem is a hydraulic hose that requires a 2.5" wrench to turn a fitting you certainly don't want to tell the company that you know what the issue is but do not have a wrench to fix it. They pay me to fix things not to consult so I better damn well have the wrench. Also if there are multiple guys on the job and you have the gear to get it done and they don't you look like a rock star while the other guys look unprofessional.

So since I am a one man show I have to figure out ways to optimize my business and increase my rate and availability. This year I am being presented with the opportunity with a lot of work on the west coast. So right now I am outfitting a tool box to ship to the west coast permanently (sometimes my tool boxes get stuck in shipping containers or on a job site after I have moved on to the next job and I have to wait weeks to get them back). I live on the east coast and will have another box almost identically outfitted ready to go. Essentially because I sub for shops I can leave these boxes in the shops and then they ship them with the gear to the job site.

My goal is to eventually have three identical sets of tools so I can position one on each coast and also have a floater for over seas jobs. My specialty tools, welders and such, I will ship where necessary or buy on location. To do this is going to cost me a lot of money, but not having to wait on tools to be shipped around the country and not having to put the cost of sending my box on the client will allow me to leverage work.

To give you an idea of the size box I am preparing to ship to the west coast it will be a knaack 89 with a full meal deal of mechanics tools up to 1 inch drive, lots of speciality wrenches to deal with hydraulics, a full electrical kit with multiple meters (hoping I can afford to put a scope in it), lots of cordless and corded power tools, a full fall protection and climbing kit, and a pretty extensive set of heavy moving/rigging equipment. I would say the box when it is finished will contain around 50k in tools if not more.

So in answer to the original question I provide my own tools and wouldn't have it any other way. Although it is an expense to me it is what gets me work because I am a one stop solution for a problem. When you work for yourself I think you have a whole different appreciation for tools because they are what is putting food on your table combined with your knowledge and skill.

 

[KraftwerkMk1Jetta]

It is amazing to me that unions forget that an employees prime job is to make the employer money, and not to take as much money as they can with as little effort as possible.
Just one mans opinion, but then, I am an evil employer.

Agree 100% !



Back to the tools though, I just don't feel comfortable working with anything but my own tools. I know what tools I have available for a specific job, and I know where they are at all times, it just makes me feel more confident.

 

[JMorrison4371]

It would be nice for my dealership to provide tools for us. However, like others have said tools do tend to "grow legs" which is sad. Also, different techs do have different preferences in their tools, like you have your die-hard Snap On guys and so on. But, with that being said, a guy I work wit at my dealership gets "special treatment" from our service manager because he's friends with the manager's son. So, our service manager climbs up on the Matco truck and buys this guy a Matco 1/2" impact, a set of impact sockets, 2 oil filter wrenchs, a Matco 88 3/8" ratchet, a Silver Eagle 7.2v cordless driver kit(w/ charger and extra battery), a Sunex 13mm 3/8" impact socket, a Sunex 10mm 1/4" impact socket, and a tire gauge w/inflator. I personally think this is BS, because the SM hasn't lifted a finger to help any of the other guys out, not even our shop dispatcher who's been there since 93. So, I kinda don't like the idea of shops providing tools. Plus, if you got something at home you want to work on, you can't take company tools home with you.

 

[crewchief888]

Agree 100% !



Back to the tools though, I just don't feel comfortable working with anything but my own tools. I know what tools I have available for a specific job, and I know where they are at all times, it just makes me feel more confident.

goes along with what i said about being set in my ways of doing things.
not everyone has the same tools, and many simply will not spend money on tools that will make "life" easier.
they'd rather complain about how hard the job is, than find a solution to a problem.

just as an example i had more extensive welding job to do a couple months ago. i had the service manager put off the job for a couple days, ( we were waiting on parts anyway)
when the time came to start cutting, grinding, and fitting up new bushings, i had brought in extra grinders, clamps, mag level, and a better welding hood from home. one guy repeatedly asked "why would i need more than one grinder, hood, ect? (this particular "mechanic" doesnt know which end of a mig gun does what.) he was completely in awe that someone had more than one 4 1/2" grinder...
this is the same guy that complains about how hard the job is, or how i can do some job without ever rounding off an allen head.
he'll buy several sets of crapola brand allen bits, just to have the one bit he actually needs... but never understands why i'll pay top dollar for that same bit, and never have to replace it.

 

[68-camaro]

The non union mine I work at provides all the tools. There is about 60 mechanics that share an estimated twenty tool boxes.This is a 24/7 operation. As far as the quality of tools they are top of the line, Snap On ,Matco Proto, OTC just to name a few. The reason is one, safety and two production. Having MSHA ruling us safety is suppose to be number one. As far as the boxes the sky is the limit to what you want in it. The determining factor is weight, these boxes need to be moved to the bay your working in. The cleanliness is policed by the people in the box, a slob may not have many friends. Each shift the tools are put away and the box is locked. The only way the tools are monitored is the dollar amount of replacement tools you order. Recently a mechanic was pulled aside for ordering 20 grand worth of tools in year. A very nice, well stock box. As far as the people taking care of the tools, for the most part its good, as stated before, if it,s not yours people get lazy and stupid. Theft is not a big problem, no one want,s to loose there well paying job. We do have a tool room with an attendant that has all of our specialty and large tools in it. Overall this is a very good place to work. I have worked her for 22 years and for the most part this system works.

 

[notarubicon]

Well, I am in the Army and I am not a mechanic but a welder/machinist/painter and they provide me with a very basic stuff. The shop I am in now I deal with mainly painting of vehicles from Hmmwv, Howitzers, Caskets, Caissons and even a Hearse.The unit provided me with a Paint gun and cheap da sanders but i have provided my own da and other body work tools. I also have a tool box of craftsman tools. I feel that being a tradesman you shouldnt have to rely on other people to provide you tools.

 

[ozyborn]

GeekSquad inhome installer here. Company provides tools. They have a nice bag and take up a little space in the Beetle. But they are mostly junk. Come on now, a generic stud finder is going to find studs in a plaster wall? Not likely.

So I have my own bag of tools that I use for my job. Loan them out? Never. Leave in the vehicle? Never. Work is so much easier now that I have the right stuff.

 

[greasemonkey44]

kinda; the boss man has one of just about everything
i need a puller i go to him; i need a miniductor i go to him; i want a hub tamer i put it on the wants list
i provide my own tools just the same though
im faster with my own stuff; dont have to dig through his gear; can do stupid stuff with mine i wouldnt with his
prolly 5 g invested all told

 

[trackwelder]

My employer provides all tools, safety equipment etc. We are not allowed to use anything but what they provide. Everything from safety glasses to a screwdriver have to be company issued.

 

[alexigtivr6]

Ive worked in the automotive , marine and aviation fields. I have always had to supply my own tools but most specialty tools where always supplied. I recently got back into aviation, but this time as a gas-turbine technician. I work as an AME before.

For the last 4 months we have been going through a Lean process The goal is to increase productivity and reduce turnaround times on our overhauls. The only good thing to come out of it is they want every work station to be equipped with the tools required. This way people can easily move around between the different work stations, The Snapon bill is going to be huge

 

[american lockpicker]

My employer has a few tools and they are the cheapest **** you can find, HF would be a step up. Most seem to only care about maximizing profits so they won't be spending a lot of money on the best tools or having everything you need...

 

[glockman]

One of my co-workers came from a semiconductor R&D plant. He said they spent $500,000 on a wall of computerized locking drawers. If you needed a tool you looked on a computer at the wall and it told you what drawer the tool was in. You scanned your badge and the drawer would open. You removed the tool and it was electronically associated to your employee number. You scanned your badge when you returned the tool, thus transfering responsibility for it back to the company. Sounds pretty cool but he said it was a total pain in the ***. He said people would scan their badge but not put the tool back in the drawer. I guess the "smart" tool box wasn't smart enough.

 

[housey]

Where I work (I'm an apprentice electrician) we have to supply the majority of tools ourselves. Drills, test equipment, basically all hand tools, holesaws (makes for a fun time when designating a job that requires a bunch of holes cut in stainless)

The only tools they supply is the HV test/safety gear, 3/4" torque wrench, battery hydraulic crimper and holepunch and sockets/spanners above 50mm (below 50mm I have my own).

I can see why they do though. For some reason only the electricians have to supply their own tools, and the trade assistants get allocated a set of company tools. The tools get lost/broken about 5 times as fast as personally owned ones even though they do no more work. A set of good wiha screwdrivers barely lasts 3-4 months before half of them are lost and the other half have the ends all chewed up